Okay, then don't decide. God is patient and will wait on you.

Yes, Tony it IS up to you to decide. It always has been. That's why God gave us "free will," so we COULD choose. It is God's desire that we choose Him, but He leaves the choice up to us. He wants our love, freely given, by choice, just our human marriages symbolize His "marriage" in Christ to us.

You lament that you may have "chosen poorly" in the past. Okay. So what? We all have done the same in one way or another. Paul lamented "wanting to do good, but fighting his human nature to do evil." You are not unique. God is in the business of forgiveness and restoration and reconstruction. He doesn't "care" if your past was a shambles. He only "cares" about TODAY and the future that He has waiting for you in Romans 8:28.

But God can wait. Can you? Remember, none of us is promised tomorrow. That has MORE to do with your "end result" than just your salvation and where you will spend eternity. It also has to do with the "here and now" for believers. You ARE saved, but you can't have Romans 8:28 until you surrender control to God. Until then, God awaits repentance from yet another "stiff-necked" believer. You aren't the first nor will you be the last. Thank God for His patience and "long-suffering."

God cries over Israel...."how long I have wanted...."

God bless.

Tony,


Yes Tony I’ve always had a choice.


That’s a different discussion altogether. But God knows the path we will take from birth to death, but we don’t. It unfolds for us as we live it. Each choice taking us down a path God is already familiar with. I know this seems kind of “Quantum Physics” like (like the space time continuum and all) and sometimes hard to understand. But that’s really for another discussion.


Tony, everyone here; is here because we made many of the same poor choices. And we all have had to decide. I know I felt la little like Abraham when I made my choice to let my W go. I was blessed, my W started coming back to me the week I made that decision.

I’m not saying that will happen to you. But I think I can guarantee something. Your ex W will see a change in you, so will your D. It may not change her mind and return, but I will allow you to get out of that rollercoaster and be a better and more stable person for your D when you have her. I started getting peace when I made my choice too. Not after my W started coming back. If she falls back into another A, I will separate from her. And quite honestly, that in itself feels freeing. Not that we would be separated, but that I have a bit more control over how much hurt I will accept from her.


Yes you (we) “get’ to decide. And God has made it up to you (us) to learn from the poor choices we make. But, we find out, the more intimate we really are with God, the less poor choices we make; and when we do make them, He will still be by our side, loving us and helping us through it all.

We will even make right choices and bad things (as we see them) will happen. I mean look at Joseph; Potipher’s W tried to seduce him. He made the right choice and ran away. He still got put in jail. But while in jail, he met the people that would eventually be the ones that would put him in a place to become the #2 dude in Egypt. Go figure. But he continued to trust God in his dire circumstances. Do you think he would have become #2 if he gave into Potipher’s W?


FH is right; God is patient. And IMHO, you will start to feel more peace when you make your choice. But whatever you do, choose and run with it. It’s hard to turn the steering wheel of a car when it’s standing still.

“I can't do this alone, but I can do this!” Quite profound Tony. God will be with you. And we’ll be here too (well, at least every once in a while).

Blessings to you Tony. You’re going to make it.

S&C

((((CEH)))))

I may be all wet here, but what I read from you is not so much what the answers to your questions are, but more that you want to be heard, you want to be validated and you want the reassurance that you're going to be ok. And I'm here to tell you that I hear you, I validate your questions and your anger and your pain, and you ARE going to be ok.

I think you need to stop being so hard on yourself for not knowing the answers or feeling like you have no direction; that is ALL part of the healing process in infidelty and divorce.

It's perfectly understandable that you don't trust yourself right now....and personally, I don't think that's a bad place to stay....it keeps us humble!

Ya know, for many years after I was divorced, I begged, bargained, prayed, fasted, wept, yelled...and anything else you want to throw in there, because I KNEW God would answer me for reconcilation....it was only logical, right? God wanted my marriage and my family back together, too....right? I learned the hard and very painful way, that altho reconcilation MAY be what the Lord wants for us....when we make our marriage bigger and more important than our God, it becames a vicious trap set by the devil to make us fall.........and fall I did....over and over again.
Until I released to all to God, that no matter what happened, I'd still love Him and trust that He knew what was best for me and my daughter. He hasn't failed me yet!

You have the answers inside you. Listen to your heart. God walks BESIDE us, not in front of us. He's there wherever we are....even if we are walking the wrong way.

I do have a question for you. If you did have a definate answer from God, how would you change in your life today, if anything, to make that a reality?

((((CEH)))))

I want to be more than ok, more than healed scars, I want my family whole, I want a chance to atone for what I did, I want my apologies to be accepted, I want to be forgiven, both by her and to know that God forgives me.

I want the chance that others here have had.

Why am I the one whose marriage had to end.

Why wasn't God bigger than the storm in my life?

Yes, I want to be heard, I want God to hear me. I want God to hear my pain. I want God to validate my questions.

I've been reading God's word for 3/4's of my life. Sometimes with more regularity than others. I've been listening to God the best I know how.

So I want God to hear me, to know that I'm hurting, and to show me the healing His word promises.

You asked if I had a definate answer from God, how would I change. I would have confidence when I set out on that path to either reconcile or to move on.

Frankly, I would believe that God really does want a personal relationship with me. It would be more than just words in His book.

Just like you can tell a Christian by his walk. I'm asking God to put feet on the words in His scripture, show me that you really want a personal relationship with me.

I want to believe, I really do, but I find it more difficult everyday.

T

Tony

I suspect that it really won't matter what I have to say, because I can't make you feel better....I can't take away your anger and confusion. Unfortunately, that's your to figure out.

Waiting is hard. Very hard. Especially when you are hurting and you feel like you've been abandoned.

I believe God is using this time to test your faith. Not fun, I know, but trusting Him is often difficult, esp in a time of need.

Perhaps you have gotten an answer, but it's not the answer you had hoped for. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I understand all you are saying. I struggled (still do on occoasion) with all the same things you are. It's not easy and it's not fair.

You'll get there. Don't give up on God and don't give up on yourself.

(((Tony)))

and I don't know how to do that either. That's why I'm asking God for that guidance, that path.

I'm told to depend upon, God, so here I am, depending on Him for guidance, yet I can't hear Him.

God has to have some idea of what He wants me to do regarding this.

If God doesn't want me to be angry, then I'm asking Him to show me how to dispose of than anger in a healthy fashion. Specifically, where does He want that energy directed?

I have struggled everyday just to maintain my faith, that is all I can do right now.

I guess I'm tired of being this way, but I don't know how to move out of this.

I'm in divorce care for the 3rd time. I read scripture, I attend worship, I actually worship, I've volunteered for missions trips.

I am disappointed with God. I'm disappointed that I don't understand Him and what direction He has for my life. I'm disappointed that He allowed the temptation to come into my marriage. I know from reading the story of Job that no temptation or trial comes into our lives unless the Lord allows it.

God allowed the temptations to end my marriage. My wife may have chosen to have an affair, but God allowed the tempation that drew her out of the marriage.

God had the choice of coming to me and saying, "Tony, your marriage is in serious trouble, you are not living up to your role as a Godly husband, your wife wants more than what you are giving her and some of what she wants is legitimate, here is how you can meet her needs..."

Yes, she chose to have the affair, she chose to leave. I chose to be lazy when it comes to being a Godly husband, I chose to be frustrated and angry.

I guess what I want to know is if these trials are for the good of those who love God, then why is it that it appears that those who love God suffer more than those who don't.

It has been postulated here that my ex-wife is not a believer. I guess I fail to see how allowing her to be tempted out of a marriage is a path to her receiving Jesus as her savior.

I guess if I understood God's plan, it would be easier to trust, to execute His plan, etc.

I do thank God everyday that I'm working, that I eat, that I have shelter, for those times that I do have my daughter, for the lessons that I've learned.

So I share my thanks as well as my disappointments. I share with God that I'm still praying for my ex-wife, her lover, his family, her family.

I'd just like to see something positive come from those prayers. I'd just like to see God's will accomplished in the lives of all the people I pray for, myself included.

I'd like to get some sort of confirmation that God hears my prayers and is at work.

T

Tony

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but based on what I'm hearing you say, you still have a great deal of love for your ew. You haven't given up on her or your family, and God does prefer reconciliation.

So.....I say Plan A her. See what happens. What do you have to lose?

I don't know if you see her or talk to her, but pray that God would bring about opportunities for you to show her your love....but most importantly, God's love.

Work on the things your were lax at as a husband. You know what they are.

It's not an easy path, and it may not be the right one in the long run (I don't know!), but I do believe that you need to try, until the time you see no more hope and your love for her has completely died.

Get involved in a discussion group (not divorce care) of men that are dealing with this same issue. I'm sure you can find some on the net.

Even if this isn't what God has intended for you, perhaps it will bring about some sort of mental stimulation, some focus that you've been missing lately.

Take care
C

ceecee,

What do you suggest for a woman who practically runs from me when I drop off my DD. Who seldom returns phone calls or e-mails and will not tell me what activities she has DD enrolled in so she doesn't have to see me?

I'm not sure I can work on anything by myself. I get along with myself fine, I don't overspend.

Now that ex-wife is gone, the only debt I have is a mortgage, and even that is less than what she pays for rent for an apartment smaller than our home. No car payments, no credit card balances that cannot be paid in full each month, getting cash back instead of paying interest.

That was a big deal to me.

So how do I work on making her feel like she is something special when she isn't around?

How do you meet emotional needs when someone will not let you?

How can you be a spiritual leader to someone who will not be led?

I'm looking at other churches. I just don't seem to fit in where I am.

I am struggling with scripture to see what it really says about divorce and re-marriage.

I am struggling with asking my church if they followed the rules of church discipline. My ex-wife filed for divorce under "irreconcileable differences" I wonder if the church would approach her to formally notify her that I seek reconciliation in a Godly fashion, or a declaration that she is out of the will of God based on biblical church discipline.

Some sort of ruling that the divorce she sought was not a biblically mandated divorce, and that believers are to solve these issues in the church, not the courts.

I don't know, I will sleep on that a few more days.

I'm willing to hear more plan A suggestions, but I'll let you know that none of Steve Harley's suggestions have worked, none of the suggestions anyone else here has worked.

Maybe someone could just join me in asking God to break up the affair. It seems to me nothing I do matters if she is satisfied with her married OM.

Well, I haven't spoken with his wife in a while so he may or may not still be married.

T

Tony


Well, I don't know your xw, so it's impossibe for me to steer you in the right direction. One suggestion would be, very simply, to just smile at her when you do see her,,,,keep showing great interest in your DD,,,let her know in unspoken ways you still care for her deeply.

Maybe Plan A isn't the way. What about Plan B? How you thought about sending her a letter? There are many people on these boards that could help you construct a letter.

C

No Tony,

You still want things your way. You are asking the same questions you have been for nearly three years now (at least Feb. 2003). You have been given answers and directions to take. You ignore posts you don't want to hear and IMHO you would even question God Himself if God told you the same things others have. You don't even hear your exW:


If nothing else tells you to move on why doesn't this?

The confirmation that your prayers continue to be answered are in the fact that FH, adgirl, Standing and myself continue to check this thread, pray and respond to your cycle of pain. We hurt because you continue to do this to yourself; yes yourself.

You "Choose" to remain where you are because you don't make a decision what to persue. You are like the man that God gave talents to and where he chose not to do anything. What he had was taken away. I believe that unless you choose to either pursue your exW or move on, things will just get harder and more confusing. But you sit on the fence and wait for someone to make the coice for you. God doesn't want to make the choice for you. He wants you to make the choice and trust that He will help you through it, right or wrong!

But you know what Tony, I doubt that you will listen to this post either. Just like you've ignored all the other posts that have Godly information in it. You wait for someone like ceecee to come along and then you start all over again with the same questions.

Still praying for you!

S&C

Because I have this nagging feeling or thought that we are supposed to reconcile, that's why I keep beating my head here.

I'm not ignoring your advice, or anyone's advice. I don't know how to make it happen.

Yes, I'm that dense.

Just because she is satisfied with her OM doesn't mean that I'm supposed to give up.

I'm not sure I can handle another failure, I can't stand that thought right now.

If I choose to pursue my ex-wife to the eyes of the world, that is certain failure.

If I choose to walk away, am I failing God, because he wants me to stick it out, to have faith that He is going to do something.

What is wrong with asking God what He wants me to do?

What is wrong with asking for the advice to be fleshed out, for examples to be given?

I really do appreciate that folks check this thread out. I want you to know that I have not ignored any post here. I just don't always know how to put your advice into practice.

Thank you,

T

Tony,

I would like to suggest that you start by praying a prayer like this.

"God, send me the woman that you have prepared especially for me. Help me wait up on your perfect timing as you prepare her. You know who I am and the kind of person I need to be for this woman. Please mold my heart and character into the man you want me to be for her."

Pray that prayer and move forward. If it is your exW, then she will come back. If it is someone else, you will have opened the door for God to bring you together with someone for a M far better than the one you had. I just don't think you can heal stuck where you are at the moment.

But don't pray that prayer thinking your exW will be the one God would send. God might send someone else.

S&C

Tony,

I still do check out your thread, all the time. I don't always reply b/c I'm kind of stuck as to what to say to comfort you or to encourage you either way. It seems the things I say, any of us say, tend to confuse you more instead of help, the way the posts are intended.

Every time I read your thoughts, my heart breaks for you. I keep saying to myself, asking God, what can I say to Tony to encourage him, what can I say that will give him that "Aha" feeling that he needs? I'm at a loss for words. I don't want to tell you what to do, but I keep having this feeling twinging at me to tell you to let go of that rope like I told you before. You are still holding onto her for dear life Tony, afraid to let go of it b/c it might slip away from you. I really do think this is what God is waiting for. For you to let go & simply trust Him that He knows exactly what He's doing. As you said, God does not allow bad things to happen to us w/o having a very good reason for it. It's for our own good, even when we can't see it, even when we don't know what the purpose is, but He does. You just simply have to trust Him. If you walk away, is that failing God? I don't think so. I think that's the opposite. It's trusting Him. God will work for your good regardless if you pursue your wife or not. God will work for your good even if you walk away from her (as a husband) & live your life.

The bottom line is, as long as you are continuing to hold onto your ex-wife, you cannot be focused on God. She is getting in the way. It is very possible, I'm almost convinced now, that this is the reason why you can't feel God around you. B/C your ex-wife is in your thoughts constantly. You are consumed by her. Is it understandable? Of course! She has been such a part of your life that it's hard to get her out of it. Does it mean you fail God when you let go of your marriage, of her, & concentrate fully on Him? Of course not!

If you let go of her, does this mean that your chances of reconciliation are over? A definite no! It just means that you take it one day at a time, leaving it totally in God's hands to do as He sees fit. Perhaps you & your wife will reconcile at a later date. Perhaps you will meet someone new & God will have prepared you for your next marriage so these things won't happen again. Perhaps you will enjoy life as a single man living for God only. You don't know. There's nothing that says that as you let go of her, when you do have contact w/her that it not be friendly. What does God ask from each of us? He asks us to Love thy neighbor regardless of how they are treating us. This couldn't fit you more. Your ex-wife is being very hurtful, very deceitful, a total ogre right now. What are you going to do? God asks you, Okay Tony, this has happened. I have allowed this to happen. Now, what you are going to do? How are you going to treat her now that she's your ex-wife instead of your wife? What will your answer be? How will you show the kingdom of God from within you to the worst enemy you have right now? To someone who has hurt you so much that you want to scream?

I'm reminded of, "Don't worry about tomorrow for tomorrow will take care of itself." Tony, live for today. You know each time I read your posts, I'm reminded of Job & all he suffered until the Lord finally spoke to him after many years of suffering & then when Job finally submitted to God's authority, the Lord blessed him beyond comprehension. Now's the time to ask yourself, What will I do now that my focus isn't husband? How will I continue to serve my Lord & just trust Him?

S&C and StandingTogether,

I thank you both for your comments. You both make excellent points.

Thanks and God Bless,

T

Dear Tony,


Tony, I feel so sad because of the grief you are continuing to go through, and I pray Jesus will give you His Mind, and a real healing will take place for you with or without her.

No Tony, it was not God that brought temptation, nor did he allow it. I don't like to make a habit of preaching the Word to a man, but I really felt I had to tell you this. Please read James 1:13-15

You may have to treat her as the father treated the wayward son, he let him go. Let go Tony and let God heal!!

Lady

ladysheep,

I have read James 1, several times. I did not say God tempted me. I said God ALLOWED me and my ex-wife to be tempted.

Read the story of Job. Satan had to get God's permission to tempt Job. Satan can only do what God allows him to do. During all of Jobs trials, Satan was trying to tempt Job into cursing God. God limited what Satan could do.

We also read that God will not allow us to be tempted beyond our means to resist.


So God does limit what temptations we face, that's what I read in the 1 Corinthians passage.

However, thank you for your care and concern, I understand and appreciate you praying over our situation.

T

T

I know nothing is going to convince you that it was not Gods fault, so I am not going to try. But take into consideration that Jesus defeated Satan at the cross! What advice you take from scripture make sure it's under the New Covenant. God Hates divorce came from the O.T. because men were divorcing wives for any reason they wanted. N.T. Jesus sent a standard of what condition divorce is permitted and that is sexual immorality. If the unbeliever departs let them depart. He has called you to peace. It is not Gods fault the marriage did not heal, it is your W fault, she does not want that to happen. You need to direct the blame where blame is due, and it is not on God.
When the wayward son went, he had to choose if and when to come home. It wasn't pleasant for him in the mud with the pigs, and being poor down to nothing. "He then decided" to return home repentant. Your W or XW has not done that. I feel for your pain, but I also see the bitterness there. I know I was just there, but it is all gone now. Please let all your bitterness go, confess it to God and ask that He would give you The Mind of Christ with peace and contentment where you are. Take care and love your children. Enjoy them.

Prayers, Lady

ladysheep,

You know, I confess my bitterness everyday, I ask God to show me the way out of my anger and bitterness.

Maybe He will, or maybe I'll eventually see and understand what He is trying to show me.

T

I hope so, and I hope you have a great missions trip to Peru! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



Prayers, Lady

Tony, many of us have tried, not too successfully, to help you with just this problem you've been having, because it blocks you from "healing." I'm also not sure if a "missions trip" is a good idea given your ongoing "problems" with God, but that's another tangential story that I don't want to get into at this time.

However, let me try one more "angle" for you to consider, because most of us have been "angry and bitter" with God over what has happened (or not happened) in our lives.

That "angle" is the CROSS.

That is where God nailed His anger and bitterness with us and OUR sin, sent it to H*ll, and left it there with Christ's resurrection. He promised to never again be "angry and bitter" with us again over forgiven sins and tells us to "be like Christ" and do the same. Nail YOUR anger and bitterness to that same Cross and "let it go." As with Job, shall we accept only the "good things" that God allows and not the "bad things?"

You continue to be angry and bitter with God, when the real "culprits" in this issue have been Satan and your wife.
YOU didn't want the affair or the divorce. Satan and your wife did. They are NOT "greater" than God, but God NEVER countermands the "free will" that He gave Satan or mankind. We CHOOSE, and we live with the consequences.

You have thought all alone that God spoke directly to you and told you that you would not be divorced. Perhaps so, perhaps not. But I submit to you that a truly saved person (as in your wife) CANNOT choose an unrepentant lifestyle of adultery. They can "For a while," but then the indwelling Holy Spirit convicts them of that sin and begins the process of repentance and restoration. However, if someone "hardens their heart" and continues in unrepetant sin AFTER being "rebuked," it's a fair bet that they were NEVER truly saved to begin with. In such a case, as painful as it is, God's instruction to the believer is to let the unbeliever go if that is their choice. God WILL NOT answer prayer to keep you unevenly yoked, but He may very well have a fulfilment to His promises to you for your future. Nevertheless, it is always "according to God's will, not our will," as Christ modeled for us in the Garden of Gethsemene.

Tony, you continue to dwell on the past. The past is what it is. It can't be changed. "Thought you heard," "misunderstood," "desired," "got hurt," etc., are all part of the past that God CAN and WILL use to work for good in your life in the future.

But you are "hung up," because of that anger and bitterness at God, and can't let it all go into God's hands and just "sit" in the knowledge that God IS in control and WILL work things out (with or without your wife) according to HIS will for your life.

NO, it's not "easy" from a "human feelings" standpoint, and God knows that. God is patient, but how long do you want to keep choosing to feel bad instead of simply "surrendering the anger and bitterness and placing them, and the future, in God's hands" without the 'requirement' of knowing that future in advance?

God bless, and continued prayers for peace in your heart.