T,
I'm in the same boat as you. I did exactly what you did. I prayed hedges around me, my husband and his current ow. That didn't stop my f-husband from marrying her. It was his decision and he has free will to do what he wants. Now, I just pray for God's will on his life and on mine. Giving God the freedom to fulfill His perfect will is better than me pryaing for something against His will.

Anyway, it's good that you're reading your Bible. I'll suggest you try inductive Bible studies. I find them more rewarding than just reading the Bible with no direction or background.

God's placed me in the Book of Nehum. I suggest you read it. It's the story of the destruction of Nivehah. This was 100 years after Jonah warned the city. It reminds us that God can place His wrath on people at anytime. He is in control and He knows what is best for us.

I'm sorry about your situation. I know how hard it is because I'm going through it too.

LD

Tony,

I don't know that I have anything for you except...

God's will is done when the people involved surrender to it. His will doesn't change when they don't surrender. It just doesn't take place. And yes people get hurt, not because of God but because of our lack of obedience.


After my "wake up call" I talked to my W and asked her why she didn't tell me she was hurting so much. She told me she tried, but I wasn't listening or just didn't get it (or didn't care enough to want to change). I wondered why it had to come to that also. But really looking back, there were messages sent by both God and my W. I was just too selfish to see them or want to change if I did.


Because you have been, and continue to blame God for not forcing His will on your W andf OM. And you refuse to be satisfied with anything but with what you want. It's tough to have a relationship if you keep blaming the other person for the bad stuff in out life. You are getting answers. Period.

Yet you continue to ask the same questions; "why didn't God will prevail"? If God's will doesn't prevail, then God doesn't care about me and stays away.

Ready? Here's your answer again. God's will didn't prevail because your xW didn't surrender to it. Your daughter is going through this stuff because in part; your xW didn't surrender to God's will. And it's MVHO that until you...

Never mind. Until you understand the part about surrendering to God's will, the rest doesn't really matter.

S&C

S&C,

I'm so disappointed because I thought I heard God tell me that this wouldn't end in divorce, that He would reach her and we would have a marriage that honored Him.

That didn't happen, so I wonder why God let me get filled with what I thought was His hope when it wasn't Him at all.

That's why I want a word from God that can only be from Him and not the voice in my head that tells me what I want to hear, or the word from other men who tell me what they think I need to hear.

I would be happy to surrender to God. All I ask is that He makes it clear that He is God so I know I'm surrendering to Him and not my imagination, Satan, or some dream inside my mind.

T

I really do know what you are saying here. I understand how you can feel that way. I have learned to give God plenty of room to work. I'm not saying that it will happen, but just because you did get a D doesn't mean that that is the end. Lupolady was D'ed for three years andher H came back. She remained faithful the whole while.

God can still work, but ultimately it will be up to your XW. She will need to "choose" to surrender to God's will. That's the way it works.


Ii honestly don't have an answer for that. The only thing that comes to mind is that your desire was so great to have that happen that you only wanted to focus on that and couldn't receive any thing else. I can understand that happening. I do know I have always said that your W had free will and will do whatever she will do and God would not force her to choose a certain way.


God tell us to test the spirits that we hear and the only way to do that is to match it up against the only thing we feel is infallible; the Bible. Whatever anyone tells you, match it up against God's word to see if it is compatible. That's why I always stress the impportance of being intimate with God. Get to know Him so well that when anyone tells you anything, you will know if it is from Him or not. But you have to trust God's word.


My answer to this is the same as the above. You need to trust the word of God. Because even if you do hear a voice or something, how would you know it wasn't the enemy messing with you. Satan is the father of lies and can mimick many things that God can do. How will you test what you hear to know it was God speaking to you?

My prayers remain with you and your D.

S&C

Fair enough,

When I thought I heard from God that I would not be divorced, how do I test that against scripture?

T

CEH - When God spoke to Saul on the road to Damascus, Jesus told Saul (soon to be known as Paul) what God intended for him.

Jesus told Paul what to do, even though he had been blinded by the presence of the LORD.

BUT it was still up to Paul to CHOOSE to obey.

It is NO different in a marriage when God's directions are CLEAR. Both the man and the woman must CHOOSE to obey. IF it were merely "you pray" and God will "Force" the result as you are asking, then there would be be NO need for Jesus' response to the Pharisees when he laid out the ONE valid reason for a divorce among Christians. The "key" to prayer is submit our requests to God, but to rely upon God's omniscience to KNOW what is actually in our "best interest." KNOW this, that NO unrepentant adulterers will be in heaven. Therefore, while WE cannot know the heart of anyone else, God can, and we place our trust in God to do "what is best" regardless of what we are praying about.

But God does NOT force our obedience. God does not direct us as some puppet on some cosmic string. God desires our humble choice to submit to Him and to obey Him out of our love and gratitude to Him for the great gift of salvation that Christ gave us. He will even pursue us when we choose to "run" like Jonah instead of humbly obeying. Even when Jonah got mad at God for NOT destroying the people, God did not "force" Jonah to "humbly obey God and wait on God's timing."

BOTH Paul and Jonah heard directly from God. Both were told what to do. Both had to make a choice. Your wife is no different. You are no different. I am no different. None of us is any different. EVEN the angels (Lucifer and his followers) are given the ability to CHOOSE whom to follow, but they are NOT forced by God to choose to follow God. In ALL cases, that is an INDIVIDUAL choice that each of us must make individually, for and by ourselves.

God has the right to "demand," yet He chooses to "ask" for our willing submission to Him.

So it is that sometimes God's answer to our prayers is "no." Satan can try to twist Scripture and what God has said, so that we can begin to doubt just as Adam and Eve doubted God's clear command that "you shall surely die."

Adam did NOT have to eat the fruit that Eve offered, just as Eve did not have to "believe the lie of Satan. Both had the "moment of choice" of obedience or disobedience, but neither could "force" the other and God was NOT going to stop them by taking away their God-given free will and ability to CHOOSE to love and obey him...or to disobey Him and sin.

Neither will God stop your wife from hardening her heart and refusing to "listen to God."

Neither will God stop you from "blaming God" for not "doing what you thought He would, or should, do." God, as Jonah found out, plays by "God's rules" not "our rules."

I hope that helps you a little in finding peace with God and peace in your soul.

God bless.

FH,

That's a really well thought out answer, and I agree with it. However, it didn't really answer my question.

I thought I heard from God that my marriage would not end in divorce. It was suggested that I test things by scripture. So how do I test this specific message against scripture?

When I asked God what to do? Would my marriage end in divorce, I felt assured by Him that it wouldn't. Of course now we know that must not have been God because God wouldn't have lied to me.

So how do I test that? Why I prayed for an answer, the answer was I wouldn't be divorced, or so I thought. My disappointment is not so much that God didn't do what I thought he should, what I wanted Him to do. Instead it was that He let me go on with life that the answer I thought I had was not from Him.

It's like I asked God and He allowed someone else to answer, and furthermore to give the wrong answer.

I trusted God to answer and would have accepted His answer. It may have taken time, and certainly accepting divorce would not have been easy. I was honest with God about that. I told Him if that was the answer, I hope He would understand my confusion and hurt since it goes against His will.

I believe it would have been a bit easier if God just said, it's not meant to be, I have something else for you in my plan.

Instead, God allowed me to believe that I was relying on His voice. Thus back to the original question, how do you find His voice? How do you test such a specific message against scripture?

This isn't a question of is God doing the right thing. The question is, how do you test something you feel is presented by God.

Do I lay out my fleece like Gideon? Do I ask for more signs? What scripture do I read to confirm such a message?

I asking what to do, and I get the impression you are still telling me I'm wrong to feel the way I feel.

T

CEH, I'm a little too tired right now to give you a "proper response." So let me just briefly touch on a few things that you might want to think about as you are reflecting upon "what to do."

Did Adam and Eve hear, even see, God? Did they KNOW they could have anything they asked of God, except for the "forbidden fruit" in the Garden?

Did they "test" the lies of Satan, or did they rely upon their own human senses and reason? They may have "heard a voice," but you can be sure it was not God.

With respect to your statement, "I asking what to do, and I get the impression you are still telling me I'm wrong to feel the way I feel," you are "hearing" something that is not there. I understand what you are saying, and yes I think it's somewhat 'incorrect' to feel the way you are feeling, but whether it's "right or wrong" to feel that way is irrelevant. You HAVE questions and God welcomes questions as a means to facilitate your growth and sanctification.

So you are asking for a "test" of feeling. I don't know that there is a test for that, or at least not a good test. But God does speak to us through Scripture and it is in Scripture that you will find your answers, your "tests" if you will.

What seems to be a possibility is that YOU wanted your marriage saved (surprise!) so much that you would NOT consider that the answer might be no. There is a reality that sometimes we "hear what we want to hear," even if what was really said was not what we wanted.

Given that, it is easy to pick out references that "support" what we "want to hear." For example, "Ask and it shall be given unto you." But it is dangerous to pull verses out to use without reference to the entirety of Scripture.

This "requirement" for God to speak audibly and clearly to you is not "bad," but it might be unrealistic. Just as the mother of James and John wanted the "seats of honor" next to Jesus, in His kingdom, it was NOT God's will. Being close to God is good and desirable, but "presuming" upon God is not a good idea.

Most of the "test" that you seem to be seeking is contained in "according to the Father's will," not our own will and desire. Even Jesus prayed for the Cross to "pass him by," but only if it was also the Father's will.

I hope that helps get you started in getting some of the answers you are seeking.

God bless.

In Genesis 2;15 the man is told by God not to eat of the forbidden fruit. The woman is later created from Adam's rib, so it is not clear that God said anything to the woman.

In Genesis 3:2, we hear from the woman who has the idea of what God said, but then even expanded on it to add "do not touch"

Later in Genesis 3:8 Adam and Eve hear God in the garden and hide from him.
O-kay... I'm not sure where you are going here. So they knew they were not listening to God and disobeyed. They certainly didn't have the scripture to read at this point. So I'm having a hard time tying this back to me testing things in the scripture.

No, I THOUGHT God told me that my marriage would not end in divorce. That wasn't a feeling, it was a voice that I heard. Now how do I test that voice in scripture?

O-kay, how do I test that in scripture, or how do I really hear what God is saying if I cannot distiquish between my voice and God?

Frankly, I don't feel any further along than before. I spent a great deal of time thinking about this and praying about this. So what does God want me to do here?

T

The definition of insanity "if you keep doing things the same way you will get the same results' could speak here I think. Maybe He wants you to stop talking about it and obsessing about it (as 20 pages here has shown) and get on with your life. LIVE. BE. Get on with it.

I totally understand your confusion, CEH because I feel the same way. I used to lie in bed next to my wife and thank God for this gift of love and devotion that I had prayed for all my life. I would smell her hair and press her back into my chest as I spoke to God silently as she slept. I was convinced that God was speaking to me and confirming that she was an answered prayer and that I should never take her for granted. I would then ask Him to guide me so that I would always be improving as a husband.

The point is that while I was convinced God had provided me with the wonderful gift of a wife, she was carrying on with an A the entire time. She was lying to me daily. She ultimately left me for OM and they have fallen in love (or so they believe…UGGHH!!).

So I ask the same question: How can I ever discern between what I believe to be His voice and what really IS His voice. I was duped and He just let me be misled by satan or my own imagination or whatever. So now I still pray and ask for guidance, but the sad fact is I don’t trust His guidance anymore because it might just be my own mind trying to fool myself into believing something again. Does this make sense?

sadmike,

You get it! You have captured much of what I'm both thinking and feeling.

T

Tony & Mike,

I pulled this from a website. Is it possible you misunderstood what He was trying to say?

3. God can speak; we listen but can misunderstand the message. Today’s Old Testament reading is an excellent example of assuming we know what is going on. It took Eli’s wisdom to recognize that God was speaking, and that young Samuel should simply respond. There are many ways of clarifying what we think God’s message is:

A. Seek the guidance of more experienced Christians

B. Consult the Scriptures, where there are many illustrations of God speaking and the listener responding

C. Read Christian literature that is written by devoted authors

D. Pray honestly and expect a response from God

E. Be open to the guidance, even though it may not be what you think it should be

It's very possible that while you thought he was telling you that you wouldn't be D'd, He could have very well been trying to tell you not to worry that He would restore your M, not necessarily b4 a D occurred though. God might actually have allowed the D to happen for a greater purpose which you can't understand right now. But that doesn't necessarily mean that what you thought He promised you won't happen. It might just not be on your time schedule.

I think He's more concerned w/what you're doing right now to serve Him. It could very well be that He wants you to take the focus off of why the D happened, to how can I continue to serve you God?

Tony, that mission trip you talked about could very well be what you need to get closer to God again. Is that still going to happen?

Y,

First, I believe I'm doing those things on your list. I'm concerned about the last one because, given how I've misunderstood before, I want to know that what I'm listening to is actually God and not just the opinions of well meaning Christians.

The mission trip has already come and gone, almost 2 months ago now.

Our host family was intact and a close knit unit. I was very happy for them and upset that I didn't have the same thing in my life and no way to build such a family either.

Everywhere I go, I see people "doing it" right when it comes to family and no chance to do it right myself.

I'm trying not to covet, but it seems like so many get the chance to heal from infidelity an put their families back together and I'm sitting on the sidelines wanting to be in the game.

Thanks,

T

No CEH, I don't think you really want to know that. Oh, you may think that's what you are doing, but I don't think you really are wanting that.

Because IF you were sincere, then you would be able to know whether or not the opinions and advice that fellow believers offer IS consistant with God's revealed will, as contained in the Scripture. That's why we are admonished to "test the spirits" to see if they are "of God or of Satan." We are NOT told that we have to UNDERSTAND or FEEL they are speaking consistent with God's will, just that they are NOT advising you do something that is clearly "at odds" with Scripture, to KNOW that they are speaking "in God."

Again, you are back to this refrain of Thomas, that unless YOU personally hear, audibly, GOD speaking to you, you will not accept what a fellow believer says even if it is consistent with, and totally supported by, Scripture, which IS the WORD OF GOD.

You continue to run is circles, always seeking but never finding. Isn't it time you CHOSE to enter God's "Sabbath Rest" for believers?

God bless.

I am seeking.

What scripture will answer the following question.

Do I wait for and/or seek reconcilation with my ex-wife?

What scripture do I read to get an answer to that question?

That the quesiton I've been asking God, well among others in my attempt to understand.

But that's the biggie. Since I am seeking first the Kingdom of God, what would the Lord have me do.

I await His answer and the scripture that supports it.

T

You see, I don't want to try and fail. I don't believe I will fail if I'm doing what God wants me to do.

Obviously I've failed to this point. I even fail to understand according to FH.

So I'm asking for understanding, I'm asking for my assignment, my marching orders from the Lord.

Some have said move on and they can make a case based on scripture, she has free will, you can't force her, you blew it according to the scriptural roles spelled out in the Bible, etc.

Others say stand, God has put you together, no-one should tear you apart, God hates divorce and in His eyes you are always married.

Scripture supports both positions.

So what does God want me to do, and how does he want me to do it?

FH, if it is so easy and clear to you, then tell me, specifically about my question above, what would the Lord have me to do, and what scripture is given to support this assignment?

T

T,


There is no scripture that will say “Tony, I want you to wait for your wife!” or “Tony, it is ok to move on with your life!”

God gave us a brain to use and scripture to follow. You need to use your head in this.

God allows for divorce. Does he hate it? Yes, but he allows it.

Your W has had an affair, committed adultery and continues to do so. She’s unrepentant and she subjects your D to the craziness of it all.

Scripture says to treat them like pagans and tax collectors if they are unrepentant.


He gives you the choice. He always gave you the choice. You can do either. If scripture supports both you have a choice. But you have to choose. God will not choose for you.



What did you fail at? Obeying God, or making your marriage stay together? If you obeyed God and did what you believe you were supposed to do, YOU DID NOT FAIL!

If you stop correctly at a stop sign, and someone else slams into your car, did you fail at driving correctly and in obeying the traffic laws? No you didn’t. It is the other person’s fault. You are not to blame.


This is probably true.



This is all true!


But he does allow it in cases of adultery (which you W has done).


Again, the choice is yours. You can wait for her. If you don’t want to, then don’t! As you yourself stated, scripture supports both.

What does God want you to do. He wants you to not put anything before Him. If your desired relationship with your ex-wife is getting in the way of your relationship with Him then that is sin.

Your assignment is to simply choose. Try to get your ex-wife back and suffer all the pain that will go with it, because you believe it is worth it. Or choose to move on in the grace and mercy of God knowing that you obeyed God but she didn’t.


Yes it’s quite clear Tony. What are you going to do? Choose or sit on the fence and continue to argue?

It’s really up to you. ...it really is. I doubt that God will re-write the Bible to tell you what to choose.

S&C

Tony, "But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances: God has called us to live in peace." (1Cor 7:15 NIV)


Tony, NO person choosing to live in adultery CAN be a "true Christian, when confronted with their sin." Ask David. It is ONE of the "identifiers" that Christ has told us will "mark" an unbeliever, even if they "profess" to be a believer. It is one of the "sinner-types" that WILL NOT be in heaven, UNLESS they REPENT and turn to God.

Therefore, in my best estimation, your wife is an unbeliever and has chosen to abandon you. THAT, along with the adultery, are Scriputural grounds for divorce.

You love her. I understand that. You love her despite what she has done. I understand that. You want to forgive her and reestablish your marriage with her. I understand that.

"For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son...." God understands. But God will "move on" if we don't choose Him. God will not force us, nor will God "pine away" over our inability to accept His gift of love. WE CHOOSE. God "waits" for us as long as we are alive, and the door closes for all eternity. He waits for our death. Your marriage awaits the same "threshold," ..."until death do us part." It speaks of death and most of us readily acknowledge the same thing that God recognizes...physical death of the body. But there is also "spiritual death" and unrepentant adultery is the "spiritual death" of the "one flesh" life. It dies. The faithful spouse is left with "holding onto sin" or "if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out....for it is better to enter heaven...." You know the rest of it.

God does NOT say that "all things will be good for Christians." God says that in "all things" (good and bad) He will work to use the results and consequences for good in the lives of those who DO love him. The promise is FOR Christians only, and it is especially helpful to those Christians who HAVE had to face trial and tribulation, fairly or unfairly.

Tony, you want me to make the "Decision" for you. I can't. S&C put it plainly and correctly...YOU must choose.

Tony, God is also a God of Peace. He knows that whatever decision you make regarding your marriage is going to HURT and to have consequences. How can you have "peace" if you won't choose and then let God "work all things for good" in your life and in the lives of your children?



Tony, imho, this is "Scripture Twisting." IF "you are always married" was a prohibition to divorce, then Jesus Christ would NOT have told the Pharisees that divorce was "acceptable" under ANY circumstances. But Christ didn't do that. Christ said, "EXCEPT for...."

Now, do you want to take, or argue, God's own words and God's own judgment concerning divorce between believers, let alone between believers and unbelievers or unbelievers and unbelievers?

But IMPLICIT in God's "okay" is that He leaves the DECISION to divorce or not to divorce up to YOU.

Tony, an unbeliever CANNOT repent and turn to God in humble obedience without God drawing them. A believer CANNOT continue in sin without dire consequences because they have the living God IN THEM, and He will not "go quietly into the night" of sin and depravation and direct disobedience to God's commands. A believer can "run, but he, or she, cannot hide."

God's final "advice" to you was given a long time ago, in the face of other "adulterers," ...."Choose ye this day whom ye shall serve, but as for me and MY house, we will serve the Lord."

CHOOSE, and trust God for the future and to be faithful to his Romans 8:28 promise to you, brother in Christ.

Do I really have a choice?

Does God have more than one path for my life?

Let's look at the history.

I made a poor choice in my mate if ultimately she is not a believer.

I made a poor choice in choosing how to behave as a husband.

I made poor choices giving in to her needs and wants for things and trips. (I'm blessed to say that today, my only debt is a mortgage <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

I made poor choices when it came to fufilling my role (more accurately virtually walking away from my role ) as spiritual leader in my home.

Now you tell me, I have to decide, and God's made it up to me to get it right.

I'm sorry, I don't trust myself right now.

T