I have been off line for several days and was excited to find a great number of new posts. Welcome to all the new ladies who have joined this bible study forum.<P>It would seem that as I read all of the new posts that I have become uncomfortable with the direction things are taking. I realize the need to discuss private matters but I'm concerned that some of the posts are a bit too provocative. In terms of men in general lurking and checking out this forum. Let's not be a cause of someone elses discomfort. I think we need to express ourselves as godly women who are trying the honor the Lord.<P>I'm sorry if my discomfort is offensive to anyone, but I felt it necessary to express my concern. I found my marriage ruined by a woman who would say and do anything sexual to make MY man happy. I don't want to emulate that in word or deed. I believe God wants all of us to be provocative to our men only and for their eyes only.<P>Proverbs 31:10-31 describes God's godly woman and that is what I want to be. <P>Lord, make me into Your ideal of a godly woman, wife and mother. <P>------------------<BR>eyes wide open<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Taj (edited December 16, 1999).]

Taj,<P>I am sorry if my open posts have made you uncomfortable, or offended you in any way. I find this to be a place where I can speak my mind, as well as be open with my fears. Due to my H's somewehat controlling ways, I really have no friends...no one I can confide in. I appreciate the other ladies here who have been open and honest in their responses to me...as they are only trying to help me understand some of the scripture that I can't quite grasp.<P>Your reference to a harlot upset me. I am a faithful, loving wife...and I am working on being a good Christian. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I think we need to express ourselves as godly women who are trying the honor the Lord. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Just because I may be a little more open and straight-forward in my posts does not mean that I am not a godly woman (or trying to be).<P>If my bluntness in myquestions offends you or makes you uncomfortable, I won't be so 'graphic' anymore.<P>Again, I am sorry.<P>Gabbie<BR>

Taj,<BR>I re-read the sexuality thread. Maybe there are a couple "hints" that are bring to mind images, but there isn't anything I guess that I'd call graphic--no body parts, techniques. <P>Godly women can both honor the Lord and physically love their husbands. God invented sex after all and I believe he meant for it to be a blessing WITHIN MARRIAGE. We aren't harlots talking about bagging any old man, we are wives wanting to meet our husbands needs and we are here on this particular board to strengthen our marital relationships in a Biblical & prayerful manner as well. I know I gave no thought to being "provocative", I just wanted to portray 1 Corinthians 7 & 1 Peter 3 as I see it with my H owning my body and my owning his, but with respect as a key ingredient. Gabbie expressed a specific question.<P>Your post on the sexuality chapter tells us of your discomfort with this subject and some of the reasons for that. And you certainly have the right to tell us what you think, I doubt anyone here wants to offend anybody else. I know I don't. I think we can take your words as a sign we need to use caution as we post, but even Godly women can love sex. Proverb 6:18-19 is about the WIFE not the Harlot. "May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth. A loving doe, a graceful deer--may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be capivated by her love."<P>Best,<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Do not get tired of doing what is right, for after awhile you will reap a harvest of blessings if you do not get discouraged and give up. (Gal 6:9)<P><BR>[This message has been edited by Lor (Lor) (edited December 08, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by Lor (Lor) (edited December 08, 1999).]

Gabbie and Lor and anyone else who is uncomfortable with what I posted. My reference to the harlot was to the one particular one who took over a decade of my life away from me. It was not intended to mean anything but her. She used everything she could to capture and contain my H. Yes, I had issues concerning my sexual abuse but she even used that against me. I will not allow myself to use any of her techniques for "keeping" my man. Sexuality is a gift from God but I'm afraid that we all need to be careful how we use it. <P>Maybe I don't belong here since my posts are offensive. Forgive me for not communicating well. I truly believe that this forum is to glorify God by praying for our husbands. I guess its OK to be open in one way but not another. I guess I need to say good-bye<P>Perception is Reality: What is a bible study?<p>[This message has been edited by Taj (edited December 08, 1999).]

Taj, I would hate to see you leave the forum and this study. I affirm your right to be uncomfortable and experiencing much pain in this area just as I affirm the others to share with one another to encourage each other, and to teach one another because I believe that God calls us to that. I read the Proverbs 31 account of the wife and am in awe of how creative and resourceful she was in her relationship with her husband and daily life. Knowing that everything God made is good includes sex and knowing man in his sinful desire perverts sometimes the good in his quest for the power that can never be his, I wrap my arms around you and others who have been abused sexually and who are feeling so much pain right now. I pray that the spirit of all comfort surrounds you with overflowing love and heals your hurt. God calls us to enocourage and exhort one another in love and that is what I appreciate about this online study, knowing the you only know me from here and have no other prebias about me and therefore we hopefully can grow together as woman experiencing trials and learning to become more Christlike. I would be sad not to hear your input even if it is different than mine because I appreciate things to think about. Thugh you felt your comments weren't well received, I think we all took a step back and checked ourselves to see if our motives were pure and I do believe they were. Please stay.

SueB,<P>I appreciate so much your response to my post. Again, I am sorry for any offense that was taken to my concerns. I really find myself uncomfortable with some of the things discussed. I would not be anymore comfortable face to face and I unlike others have not found bible studies to contain such explicit discussion. Am I a prude? Maybe! And for that reason I may still need to leave this forum. I have been the beneficiary of so much thus far in the discussion and prayers offered for our husbands. but I do find it very difficult to discuss on line things that I could not discuss with my best friend. It seems at this point I am the only one who is uncomfortable, so I will just lie low for awhile. Again, thank you for your sensitive response.

Taj: I would hate to think that my reply to is the reason you are thinking of leaving the forum. I can see that by our posts, you are I are from 2 opposite ends of the spectrum, and that's not a bad thing. I'll be real honest with you here...I was also sexually abused as a child, and that is where my belief that my body is MINE and no one else has the right to touch me if I don't want to be touched comes from. I know that I shouldn't tell my husband no, and that I should be the one to satisy him sexually whenever the urge strikes him, and I am trying very hard to do that. My problem is that I am afraid that if I do make love with him even when I don't want to, that I will become resentful, and that's not God's plan...it's not what He wants. God doesn't want me to be angry or resentful towards my husband. I'm sorry if anything in my posts made you decide to leave here.<P>When I was first saved back in 1990, I met a couple who had been married 7 years and had 2 children. They were always there to answer my questions, and I have a lot of respect for both of them. Shortly after I was saved, I spoke with the woman about sex, as I felt some of the things that my H and I were doing in the bedroom were 'nasty'. (I was very young at this point, not quite 20 years old, and had never really read the Bible). She spoke very openly with me about my concerns...and later, when I joined her weekly Ladies Bible Study, we also talked about very personal issues. I don't think you are a prude, Taj, not at all. I just think (and I could be wrong here) that you were raised to keep quiet about your feelings and emotions...I, on the other hand, was raised by a single mother who was very strong willed....who taught me to never hold back...speak my mind...and don't let anyone take advantage of me. <P>Please don't leave the forum on my account.<P>Gabbie

Taj. I have a suggestion. What if I start a string called "over a cup of coffee"? It could be a place for just chatting about the book and our lives If you are uncomfortable with the openness some of us are used to, you could skip that string.<P>Workable?<P>Please don't leave the forum.<P>liz<P><P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>

Taj, I am so glad to hear from you! Good friends with the magnitude for hearing everything about us, good and bad, are rare to find. We allow our own fears of rejection, etc. to isolate us from doing what scripture says to carry one another's burdens. What a lot of pain you have had to carry for a long time, first as a child and now as an adult. We turn off our emotions so as not to feel the pain and then it creeps back up when we least expect it. We rage over that, feeling like we again have been peeled and laid wide open, so vulnerable, etc. I agree with Stormi that praying for our husbands in this way helps us to see them not only as perhaps a lost sheep that needs to be found, but also to see the awesome responsibility God has given them and that they have to be accountable for to Him. In that process, God also sands and refines us, (H says God is using a grinding wheel on him right now) So many times I have wanted to ask questions and receive an honest God perspective in a sensitive area or to verbalize an area that God may want to work in me on and I feel so uncomfortable and a bit rebellious about, but found there weren't any folks out there who could hear what I was trying to say without condemnation, etc. I received the usual, you have to have more faith speech and though I may know that, I needed more, I needed a new perspective, I needed encouragement to continue down this scary path. That is what I think this forum can offer us.<P>I share this insight out of our therapy session yesterday, when it became apparent that I freeze feelings, compartmentalize them and rationalize them so that I don't feel. I discount my own feelings due to the pain of experiencing them, to the fear that I might again be forced into a mold of others choosing. I cling to the freedom I have found in Christ and I too have tried to compare everything to Him and His word. What I have done though is diminished myself in the process and I cannot be the woman God wants me to be if I deny that part of me. Though I relate to Paul's words in Romans 7 and can picture the race we are on (you know for years, I saw those words as proof that I am not good enough, try harder)I have a difficult time with experiencing God's grace in light of my flaws. It was a pretty eye opening thing for me. <P>I would like to be your sister of encouragement, accountability, etc. If this forum is too difficult for you to share in, then please write me email. My address is eramhoff@home.com. I care Taj, let us grow together in Him.

Taj, I did not mean to add to your pain. I, too, have been in a prayer group (pre-affair) where we shared how difficult it was to find "romantic" time and how different women among us found solutions--some no doubt would be considered very racy, and I won't detail them on your thread! Since most of us are coming from the infidelity board, sex is going to be a big issue, as it is there. Our husbands, with whom we are one flesh, used that one flesh with someone else. Most of us have had the "ick" about it at one time or another in varying degrees.<P>But, Taj, there are so many other chapters and threads, please don't leave us because of one. I didn't mean to imply that you don't have a right to say what you want...I wanted to show where I was coming from, and since I have studied these verses for my life (and once again, God doesn't put us all on the same track at the same time) I felt I had something to offer you.<P>Please don't go...<BR>

Lor, POGP, Gabbie, SueB,<P>I thank you all for responding to my discomfort. I feel rather like someone who ended up stirring up a hornets nest and got stung in the process. Each of your posts I read and reread very carefully. I am sorry for offending each of you while I was trying to communicate my concern. We are so limited by the written word, no gestures or expressions or tears to reveal the depth of what we are feeling. <BR>I have struggled with my sexuality all my life and have continued to have it used and abused by others(specifically my H , the OW and the predator who ended my childhood). I have often wondered why and yet God is Sovereign and I know He does not allow anything into my life without a purpose. I feel I have dealt with "issues" as much as is possible to this point. I just seem to have a smaller comfort zone when it comes to sexual expression. I only want to glorify God for he is to be first and foremost in my life.<BR>My H says I always have to "color inside the lines". Maybe that is my safety net against any further abuse. I am sorry that I was unable to communicate that to all of you with any kind of grace.<BR>I feel the need to defend myself and yet I think it is a human need and not one the Lord would have me follow through with any further then this. Thank you for each of your expressions to have me hang around. <BR>One more thing, nothing anyone said caused me to consider leaving the forum. It is just that if I could not express my concern and it be accepted as something to ponder then possibly I have nothing to contribute.<BR>My initial post seemed to turn a molehill into a mountain. It was simply my own personal discomfort I was sharing. <P>Cathy/Taj

Taj, feelings are feelings and they were yours and they are real! It has not turned into a mountain from a molehill. I think we all wanted to affirm you and your feelings. Each post you have made to us has given us more information to know you and I thank you for that.