Since Janusray God has been telling me to seek Him with all my heart. No matter what happens with my circumstances, this is what I need to do. Gently He has been bringing me more and more in this direction. I do read the Bible, and pray but do I ask myself the questions and take the time to ponder His Word as much as I should, No. My flesh gets in the way. But this is what I want to do. I see on this forum and the others how much we are all hurting, and I know this is not how God wants us to be. He wants us to seek Him with all our hearts. "But seek first His Kingdom and His Righteousness, ana all these things will be given to you." Matthew 6:33 <P>"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the greatest comandment. Matthew 22:37 <P>Submit yourselves then to God. Resist the devil and he will fell from you. COME NEAR TO GOD AND HE WILL COME NEAR TO YOU. Janes 4:7-8<P>I mentioned this in my prayer the other night. When I asked myself the question How do I seek God? God lead me to Psalm 37. When I looked at thebeginning of many of the verses I got the following:<P>Do not fret v. 1<BR>trust the Lord and do good v. 3<BR>delight yourself in the Lord v.4<BR>commit your way to the Lord v.5<BR>be still before the Lord v. 7<BR>refrain from anger v. 8<BR>turn from evil and do good v. 27<BR>wait for the Lord and keep his way v. 34<BR> This amazed me, because it said exactly how to seek God.<P>I then turned to a few familiar verses<BR>Be joyful always, pray contineously; give thanks in all circumstances for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus (1 Thess 5:16-18)<P>Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God (Phil 4:6)<P><BR>So my first question then is for you to ask yourself How do you seek God with all your heart, soul and mind? Where does God lead you?<BR>Pray and ponder this and share your insights with everyone and we will proceed from here. Together I think we can really discover what it means to seek Him with all our hearts, souls and minds.<P>After we start with the above I thought that we might follow the study that I have recently done called "Behold Your God" which is a study of some of God's many attributes. By discovering who the Bible says God is we can know Him better and which therefore leads us to want to seek Him more. I will post questions from the study and then as you feel led you can respond. If any of you have other ideas and questions that would help us on this journey, please post them for us all.<P>Father,<BR>As we begin this new journey, I ask that you be ever present in each of us. Let Your Holy Spirit lead us to discover who You are as we seek to know You in a deeper way. Touch each heart according to Your will and help each of us to come closer to You, as we want You to come closer to us. In Jesus name Amen.

I've hesitated to post this...but I want to share how God has closed a door.<P>Some of you know that last Jan when Guard left me the last time (the 7th time), I gave up on the marriage. I had just finished praying through POPW and basically thought if those powerful prayers, coming on the end of praying for my marriage for a year and a half couldn't do it, nothing could.<P>And there was a man...a scripture quoting "friend", good-looking, charming, wealthy, supportive...and I got involved.<P>At the same time, God swept down on my husband, his fog, his affair, his depression, his guilt, his bad behavior...disappearing or gone. He wanted me back.<P>And I said to God "What are you doing?" I can't trust my H again after all I've been through...and I've got OM who loves me.<P>The message I got back was "Trust ME."<P>I asked God over and over to show me which of these men was the one he designed for me, even knowing that with my H living as a believer and our divorce not final, it had to be my H.<P>I talked about "no contact" with the OM. He decided on it and held me to it when I was weak & called.<P>Well, it took awhile to give up my OM "safety net" mindset. It also took Guard awhile to give up his safety net of his other house.<P>After last month's Mexico trip and the renewal of our marriage, this past Monday Guard gave up the keys to his house. On Tuesday, I saw the OM drive by my store, it had been 3 months of absolute no contact and I called him to tell him my life is going good, Guard is home, and I'm wearing my wedding rings (my motive was ok, but I already know I shouldn't have). The OM says, "That's great! And I'm wearing a wedding ring as well." He's been married just over a month.<P>Can you hear the door SLAM? I never thought there was much of a fantasy attached to his man, but with his marriage, I realized there had to have been--he wasn't who I thought he was or who he said he was in relation to me. And I know this is the answer to "which of these men". Basically, it was NEVER the OM. Add this to the story of my H planning to go back to his OW and finding she was dating his housemate/friend...and you know how firmly, and in what odd humor, God can shut a door when you TRUST HIM first.<P>I don't know about the rest of you, but I sure wish I learned easier and remembered better that God is God and the source of our sufficiency.<P>And the postnote, I told Guard right after work that I had called the OM. It was a setback...but I'm glad I didn't hide it and was honest...and Guard is still here and still loving me.<P>Trust in God, he has a plan. Get out of his way .<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

Oh, Lor, I am so glad you posted that. What a tremendous testimony glorifying the Lord!!! Your renewed marriage is a great inspiration to me. Your last sentence says it all "Trust in God, he has a plan. Get out of his way!" AMEN sister.<P>Now, for the hard part, getting out of his way completely.

Once again the Lord is speaking directly to me through email. The following article was posted on the WonWithoutAWord email list. It mightily convicted me, as I have so much held back in my heart that I have not surrendered yet. Today I want to surrender it all. I hope you enjoy this article as much as I did. The tears are flowing.....<BR>============================================<P><B>Do You Have His Heart?<BR>by Alice Robertson</B><P>"As ladies I wonder if we give as much thought to having our husband's hearts <BR>as we do our children's hearts. I was thinking about how hard it is sometimes <BR>to be a parent and find that balance between drill sergeant and mother's heart. When they are children we snuggle them and their whole world revolves around us. Then as they enter the teens and turn into adults we slowly have to let the apron strings go on our sons, and yet keep the boundaries firm and <BR>our hearts open. As mothers we have such love and longings for our children to walk with God and we want their hearts to be in the right place. <P>1 Chronicles 28:9: And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searched all hearts, and understand all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will <BR>cast thee off for ever. <P>I then started to wonder about my own heart and my own submission. I realized that for many years I was able to outwardly submit but inwardly I just wouldn't let go of my rights. <P>1 Sam. 16:7: But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart. <P>I had this festering sore within my heart that was oozing and although I knew all the right words and had the actions down firm I knew God wanted my heart. That was humbling because I knew in my heart I was able to outwardly submit, while often inwardly cursing and justifying that I was doing the right thing. I would even ask my husband from time to time if he thought I was submissive and he would say, "Yes!" And I would be satisfied for a moment because <BR>inwardly I knew the turmoil I was in. God knew my thoughts. I would be submissive for awhile, but if I was under stress I would sometimes blow up, only to apologise later. I read in Titus 2 that a servant shouldn't talk back to their master and I was convicted that I talk back because my very heart is hard, it was very revealing. <P>9: Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again; <P>Matt. 9:4: And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts? <P>I kept asking God why the trials in my marriage didn't end and why I was constantly frustrated with myself and my husband. I began desiring for a heart that longed to please God. I prayed something very close to this: <P>Psalm 23:16: For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me: <P>I wasn't fooling God or my family and I wanted to be an example for my sons on what God wants in a wife. I wanted to show my daughters what a Godly wife acts like in public and private. D. Moody has a quote that character is what we are in the dark. I kept feeling like a hypocrite and a Pharisee, but I wanted the heart of the publican: <P>Lk:18:13: And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. <P>If I desired a victory I would need to work on the heart. The outward acts I had depended on as seeing me through and what I considered obedience were not going to cut it. Once I realized this message was truly from God and he desired it, he gave me the gift of faith to start to walk this principle out. <P>Mark 11:24: Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. <P>I felt I was being called to walk my faith out and not just give God's word lip service. Time to be "salt and light" within my very home. It was going to take an internal change. <P>Col. 3:17: And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him. <P>Suddenly when the trials came I had peace, a peace I never had before. I realized God was sending me grace to weather the trials. And slowly there was peace in our home and our relationship started to mend. I realized that just as hard as I have worked to get my children's heart, I needed to work on having my husband's heart. <P>Psalm 15:13: A merry heart maketh a cheerful countenance: but by sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken. 14: The heart of him that hath understanding seeketh knowledge: but the mouth of fools feedeth on foolishness. 15: All the days of the afflicted are evil: but he that is of a merry heart hath a <BR>continual feast. <P>I have had to repent of spending more time working to maintain a relationship with my children than with my dh. I started to understand that in order for ladies to see 1 Peter 3: 1: Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; 2: While they behold your chaste <BR>conversation coupled with fear) lived out in their homes we needed a change of heart, not just an outward change in the physical. I learned that in order to have true "chaste conversation" I had to have my heart right, and in order that a wife "may" win her husband she will need to have her heart right, not just "act" submissive outwardly. Because as we are acting submissive <BR>outwardly we run the risk of blowing up and watching the ugly things that spew out of our mouths. We are then left confused and feeling like we have lost ground because we know what scripture says: <P>Matt. 15:18: But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19: For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with <BR>unwashen hands defileth not a man. <P>I decided to surrender. I kept thinking of the song, "I Surrender All" and knew I truly didn't want to surrender all. There are parts that I want to hang onto in my heart, the parts I label, "My rights". As long as I have a shred of my heart held back I can't experience true victory in my marriage. I <BR>remembered something Dave Wilkerson said and it seemed so simple. He said if God wants to do surgery on you, then jump up on that table and tell him to go ahead and get if over with, the sooner the better!! If it's so easy, why was I so unwilling? God desires good for us and why I hesitate to obey is <BR>something I struggle to understand. God has sent the Holy Spirit to help me. <P>I write this to share that with God we can experience victory and he has sent the Holy Spirit to help us. <P>Psalm 119:133: Order my steps in thy word: and let not any iniquity have dominion over me. <P>Jude 1:24: Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25: To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. <P><BR>May God give us: A pure heart so we may see Him; a humble heart so we may hear Him;<BR>A loving heart so we may serve Him; a faithful heart so we may live Him!"

Wow, Lor,<BR>Thank you so much for posting this. I really needed to hear this today. It helped me in a deeper sense to realize that no matter what it looks like at this moment, God is in charge, He has a plan, and He is carrying it out this very moment. This is exactly what we learn as we seek our God in a deeper sense. <BR>For me I know I need to learn these lessons a hundred times. I would rather learn it the first time. Seeking and knowing the Lord, is exactly how we can get there.<BR>We do need to get out of God's way. BOY do I need that lesson. I am trying.<BR>God convicted me that I still need to take the log out of my own eye. I do not need to instruct tell my husband anything. In fact all I need to do is love him. It is hard for me to do that, because he is not living with us, so I have to find new ways to do that without chasing after him. And as I write this I guess the best way I can do that at this point is to pray for him and pray for him only and get out of God's way.<BR>Thanks Lor.<BR>AW, I wrote you a note this morning about taking the plank out of my own eye first. I also was posting this as you posted your. Wow also to you what great insight. You are growing, and I feel I have been where you are describing. I feel I am submissive but maybe I am not, I wuill have to ponder this. But more importantly for me now, I need to be submissive to my Lord and seek to please Him, which I know you are realizing also. Interesting we both quoted from Chronicles. This is why it is so important to have fellowship over His word. He gives each of us a slightly different insight. Neat.<BR>Also You are so right the Lord does have a plan and together we can all discover how God wants each of us to get out of His way, seek Him, and just to trust Him and love our husbands.<BR>In what other ways has God revealed to anyone out there reading this "how to seek God with all your hearts, souls and minds?"<P>[This message has been edited by hw (edited August 19, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by hw (edited August 20, 2000).]

I am rejoicing at the victory which God has brought about in your life Lor. So many of us have endured similar trials in regards to unfaithfulness but it is so amazing how God has worked out the victory in different ways. We do need to share the victories on this forum because they can encourage the hearts of those who are still in the "waiting room".<P>I agree with Lor and Rootbeer that T-R-U-S-T is the very thing which we must do to seek God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength.<P>Long ago a hymn spoke this truth to me and today it is even more alive and needful.<P>Like the woman at the well I was seeking<BR>for things that could not satify,<BR>but then I heard my Savior speaking,<BR>"draw from my well that never shall run dry".<BR>Fill my cup Lord,<BR>I lift it up Lord,<BR>Come and quench this thirsting of my soul.<BR>Bread of heaven<BR>feed me till I want no more,<BR>Fill my cup, fill it up and make me whole!<P>Jesus, truly is our sufficiency.<P>We will not find fullness in any person, not our husbands, not our Pastors, not even in our closest friend. Jesus alone can fill our cups.<P>Blessings, Taj<P>------------------<BR>"Perfect love casts out fear" I John 4:18<p>[This message has been edited by Taj (edited August 20, 2000).]

HW, AW, Taj thanks for your kindness.<P>I hadn't wanted to share because when I'm not going the right sort of stuff and God still shows his hand, I feel so undeserving...and of course the truth is, it doesn't matter WHAT I'm doing I will always be undeserving of God's sacrifice.<P>AW, your post was simply amazing. It occurs to me that everytime I feel like I'm on my feet and on my way, I get knocked to the ground. Since I'm supposed to be laying at the foot of the cross rejoicing in God's goodness, maybe my mistake IS in getting up and going my own way. Something to think about as I lay there once again.

Dearest sister,<P>It is with a not-so-humble, and struggling heart that I come here today to thank you all for submitting to the will of God and writting what you have written today. I have been so miserable, for weeks, no, months! I keep applying rules, keep pushing my H for more, keep wallowing in pain, self pity, and anger. I THOUGHT I was seeking God, but I know I was just seeking relief in all the wrong places.<P>For me, seeking God is sometimes like those Magic Eye images. I keep trying to focus in to see the picture. I stare for hours and hours. I put it down, and come back to it days later, thinking I'm trying too hard, or not enough, or doing it completely wrong. I give up, only to try again with renewed vigor. I come to the conclusion that the picture I'm looking at is wrong. But the whole time, I'm doing it all wrong. Occasionally I think the picture is becoming clearer, but then it's gone.<P>I want to seek God with all my heart. There were times I thought I was, but I didn't remain there. I got side tracked so easily. God's been telling me as well to stop everything and just seek Him. I've been getting that message for years. He wants me to keep my life very simple, and focus on Him. I thought I was doing it, but I was still so miserable. I look at myself and see someone very much a slave to her emotions, and so vulnerable to every shift of the winds around me. <P>Now, I'm not sure what it is I'm supposed to do, or how to seek Him. I used to understand what God wanted me to do so clearly, for a brief time. But, I've lost the ability to do that again. I want to feel blessed gain, and feel full of the Holy Spirit. I want to grow in faith again, more, and feel firm in my foundation on God.<P>Please pray for me. I'm going in to my room to pray and read my bible, and I'm not coming out until God tells me I can.<P>I'd love to get emails from some of you. I'm at jungle_princess@hotmail.com.<P>JP

I am going to post this in parts, so if this looks unfinished when you read it just wait a bit. I got kicked off in writing my last piece. So I try again---<P>jungle princess, <BR>I too have been struggling with these issues. I keep thinking I have surrendered to God, but then I find myself deep in the middle of my circumstances and worse this week I was feeling that I keep praying and seeking not for God but for Him to fix my life. Since Jan He has been moving me toward a deeper walk but I still get off track. This week He has lead me down a new path. A difficult one, but none the less one that is wrecking more srtongholds. <BR> Well then, today's sermon at church hit upon this very issue and maybe this will speak to others as it did me, especially since we are all trying to seek our Lord in a deeper way.<BR> The sermon came from John 2:15-21 This is the section where Jesus cleans the temple.<BR>Our pastor started with three questions (he always has 3 questions or points)<BR>1) What is a temple?<BR>2) What does Jesus claim about the temple?<BR>3) What difference does this make to us?<P> First now a days we think of a temple as a building with pillars. In the old testament the temple was the inner room where the presence of God resides. The high priest entered into this temple once a year to offer sacrifices for the people' sins. This inner temple was where the gap between us and the divine was bridged.<P>Jesus then comes and in this passage He answers the challenge by the Jews as to what miraculous sign could he show them to prove his authority?<BR>Jesus says, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days." ... But the temple he had spoken of was his body."<P>Jesus was saying He was the temple. He was saying the divine resides within Him. So when we accept Him we are taking the temple into us; taking in his divineness. He has come to bridge the gap between the divine and us. What makes His temple different is He is the sacrifice as well. He is the alter, the lamb. He is the bridge.<P>Our pastor goes on to say that when we take in Jesus it changes us in 3 ways that are represented in Jesus clearing the temple.<P>1) When he threw out the money changers and the animal sellers. This was basically a market. Jesus was saying have you turned your relationship with Him into a market relationship; Are you feeling I've done my part, why hasn't He done His part? Are you in this relationship to get something. (Ouch!! that stung; confirmation of what I was hearing this week). Do you want to live like you have no other purpose but to worship Him and put God into the center of your being!!! Yes, I say but how?<P>2). Jesus showed authority in clearing the temple. Jesus walks in and starts moving things around. Since He is the temple, He has the authority to move things around and to say what goes and what doesn't. He is the owner!! So if He is living in me, He is my owner! He therefore has a living relationship with me. (Are you ready?) He owns me, So He has the authority to rearrange my life anyway He wants!! Am I willing to say, "take ownership and rearrange at Your pleasure Lord? I submitt to You."<P>3). We are no longer in charge of our life. He changes our relationhips with others. The temple has a place for everyone- we become the temple. (I'm not sure i got all of this part) But I think this is enough for each of us to ponder.<P>For me then the first thing I thought of was "You can't stay where you are and go with God." You have to make a choice. The choice I make will determine the depth of my relationship and the quality. If I determine how far I go then God can't do a whole lot, but I will keep screaming, I want more and wonder why it doesn't happen.<BR>Then I thought about Abram (Gen 12:1) God told Abram to leave his family and country and go to a land that God would show him. He had no further information. Abram got up, gathered all his animals, wife, slaves and his nephew and set out following God step by step, because he had no further direction. <BR>Are we willing to follow God step by step with no end directions in place?<BR>"I am the way and the truth and the life" (John 14:6)<BR>The other day from Psalm 37 I quoted a few words that gave some insight into how to do this. I added some other pieces of information to it from the study Experiencing God.<P>stop fretting; <BR>agree God is absolutely trustworthy (others have posted how important they think trust is); <BR>delight yourself in the Lord.<BR>agree to follow God one day at a time<BR>commit your way to the Lord<BR>agree to follow Him even when He does not spell out all the details<BR>be still before the Lord<BR>agree you will let Him be your way<BR>refrain from anger<BR>turn from evil to good<BR>wait for the Lord<BR>And pray constantly<P>"It is God who works in me to will and to act according to His good purpose" (Phil 2:13)<P>We see in Jeremiah 18:1-6 the story of the potter and the clay. The clay has 2 things to do. 1) clay has to be molded; 2) the clay must remain in the potter's hands. If the potter makes a cup, he can use it in anyway he chooses. The cup has no ability to do anything on his own.<BR>"The Son can do nothing by Himself " (John 5:19)<P>However with God working through us, we can do anything God can do; unlimited potential! That gets my attention.<P>But the relationship must come first!!!!!<BR>Jesus says, "I am the vine, you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing." (John 15:5)<P>So God has got to get me from where I am now to where He wants me to be and where He is!<BR>God's standards of excellence are different from man's.<BR>I want a God centered life. The Son, Jesus is the bridge between God and me. How do I cross the bridge? I asked and then I realized I didn't have to cross the bridge. JESUS CAME TO ME!!!!!!! He says come follow Me!!!<BR>So I must just decide that I will follow Him and I will trust Him. Knowing that I have Jesus and the temple, therefore the divine presence within me. I can do all things because He does them through me. Tonight I realized what a relief, Jesus does it for me, I just need to stay with Him, by reading my Bible to know Him better, praying and listening to His word (which means I have to quiet my mind long enough to let Him get a word in edge wise)<BR>As jungle princess said above she is not sure how this all works. I agree, but today I feel I have started on a new journey, one day at a time with God directing my steps toward where He is and where He wants me to go.<BR>If I start focusing on my circumstances and my desires (I want my husband and marriage back) then i have taken over and stepped off God's path. I don't know if His path will include my husband or not (YEs, I hope so and knowing God's promises I suspect it will, But I am willing to go where He wants me to go, regardless.) I am still working on this and I expect to fall many times, but I know God is there waiting to pick me up. And that is also why He has given us all to each other, to be a help in this journey where ever He takes us.<BR>I like this statement I saw somewhere...<BR>God stretches you beyond what you can imagine... in order to do what He can imagine....<P>Lord, I have struggled with this so long. I keep believing I've given it up and then I find myself wanting my own way and my own idols. I find myself stomping my feet up and down saying i want it my way. Lord, I don't know how to give it up. But I ask if You can use me in all my weaknesses and faults? Lord, change me!. Meet me where I am and take me on the journey you have planned. You know the plans, the way and the destination. Help me to truat You, follow You, lean on You, come to know You in a far deeper way. As Jesus said, "Into Your hands I commit my spirit." (Luke 23:46) Lord, I submit and I commit to Your way. I don't know how to do it or what exactly it means. Lord, I take a step of faith, here, I am saying I trust in You and I have faith and a hope in You. <BR>I ask this also for the women on this forum who want to know You in a deeper way. Lord, lead them down the path You have predestined for them. Help them also if they are struggling to let go and trust You., Help them to walk a path day by day with no expectations except the excitement and joy of meeting with You and developing our relationship with you. You say, "Seek You first and Your righteousness and all else will be added." Lord show us what this means in the coming months. Reveal through each of us what this means and then help us to share it with each other, encouraging and building each other up in the body of Christ. I offer this prayer to You in Your Son Jesus Christ, Amen.<P>This has been a real struggle for me this week with tears. After our pastor's sermon I understood better, Not exactly how to do it or how it will go, but confidence that He will do this for me. I need to take the step of faith that says, "Lord, I choose You and Your way. You are the potter and I am the clay. Mold me any way You want. I know it will result in my good, and Your Glory. I want Your best for me, my husband, my children and family. I want Your best for these sisters also." Thank You. I praise the Lord, for He wants this too. He wants us to come to Him and say work away Lord. <BR>Tomorrow I will post some questions to ponder for study on the first attribute of God in coming to know Him in a deeper way "God is love" Have a blessed evening..<P>This is now finished<BR><p>[This message has been edited by hw (edited August 20, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>We will not find fullness in any person, not our husbands, not our Pastors, not even in our closest friend. Jesus alone can fill our cups.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Taj, thank you for posting this. This is something I really need to work on, because I need too much to feel loved by my H, when what I should be doing is accepting the love Jesus offers. When things are not going so well, I get upset, anxious, worried, etc. and lose focus on the Lord. I have a difficult time praying. The enemy does this do take my focus off Jesus, because he sure doesn't want me praying, especially for my H. 'Surrender all' is so hard. <P>JP - are you doing ok? I will keep you in my prayers too. I do understand about the getting sidetracked. I do too, way to often. Hw is so strong, and such an inspiration. Her faithfulness and true desire to serve Him is an example I want to follow. The Lord is so good to us, He is working in each of our lives, we just need to get on our knees and thank him, and praise him.<P>Father, I come humbly before you Lord, to worship You. Father, I praise Your name, Your Holy, Holy Name, in the highest. You are Life, Lord. Without You in our lives, we are nothing, and can do nothing. Help us, dear Lord, to surrender all to You. Help us Father to no longer fret and worry about out situations, but give them over to You. Thank You Lord, for helping us realize what it is You need us to do. Father, help each woman here give her heart completely to You, seeking You before all else. Thank You Lord for this wonderful forum to share, and the fellowship of these praying wives. I praise You and give all the glory to You. IJN I pray, AMEN

Taj,<BR>Did I tell you it is great to have you posting with us again. I too have missed your input. Yes, trust is a big one. I like the hymn's words, that essentially say allowing Him to fill our cups, as only He can. He makes the cups and He fills them too. Only His living water fills us up and although leaves us wanting more it satisfies thoroughly also. <P>AW< I was working on the above and I missed your post before I finished. It sure seems that God has moved us all onto the same sheet of music; seeing the need for boundaries and now I can't wait to see how He weaves all this together to know Him better. He is working in our lives, Wow!!! <p>[This message has been edited by hw (edited August 20, 2000).]

HW-Great Post! God is sure working here in a mighty way in all of us. I am so grateful! <P>One of the benefits of having to be in the car driving for 9 hours is having the opportunity to listen to Christian radio and hear many different messages. One of the things I became aware of as I was listening and driving was the sense of peace that I experienced. As I am trying to stay focused on myself, rather than any other external thing, in this journey with Him, I began to think about what made the difference in my attitude in regards to the peace and serenity I felt. <P>What I realized is that my breathing was slower and my stomach was relaxed, like when you ready yourself to meet with the Lord in prayer, how you empty yourself and make yourself vulnerable for what it is that He will reveal to you, that trust and openness, the mind dump, the deep exhalation to remove all the bad air to allow the fresh air in.<P>I thought about Paul telling us to pray without ceasing and that this relaxing of the stomach muscles and opening of the heart in vulnerability allows us to be continually in the state of receiving His Word and insight into our minds, the continuous conversation, "What do you want me to hear," "How do you want me to respond," the checking things out with Him based on the things we have been learning in boundaries, etc. to ask "how does this fit in, Lord?," "How do I respond to my husband in truth and honor when he initiates the controlling behavior to not close my heart to him." (stomach closes off in my observation yesterday)<P>I found that by the time we got home, I had to tell myself many times throughout the trip back to relax my stomach, to allow myself to be vulnerable to my husband (after dropping the children off to BM and my hubby began the emotional descent that occurs when we have to return them, which usually results in focus on what is wrong with me-septic waste runs down hill you know-sigh)<P>It was pretty interesting in that during the discussion of how I am not meeting his needs, I was able to share how I had specifically changed behaviors to meet his needs in those areas I could in my desire to honor him, and that after he recently told me that he didn't just want some of his demands/requests met, he wanted them all met, how discouraged I felt. <P>He told me I was focusing on the 7% bad and not on the 93% good in our relationship. I sat there and prayed that piece through a bit and then, because I felt he was doing that rather than me. The Lord gave me a piece of information relating to our children, in that his youngest one is highly anxious and very perfectionistic and stressing greatly, which is impacting her academia already at her young age. I had already shared with him about one of my girls displaying the same behaviors when she had been in the first grade, upset that she would miss one or two answers until I was finally able to show her that missing those one or two still made her grade an A. <P>From that stance then, I was able to share with him that, at 93%, I had an "A" in "wife" and yet he was not satisfied with that and just as our daughter had unrealistic expectations of herself, I felt he had unrealistic expectations of me in demanding/desiring a perfect 100% score all the time and that I was experiencing the stress of not meeting his expectations just as my daughter had experienced the migraine headaches at 7 years of age and how his youngest daughter now is paralyzed in even trying in school because of her fear that she can't be 100%.<P>I think something clicked because he became quiet and quit the harping. It was a continual process and a continual telling myself to open stomach, breathe, be vulnerable. The tears are so close to the surface when you are vulnerable. I do not like to be in that place.<P>As you said HW, of the Lord telling Moses, get up, go here, not giving any information, not telling him the plan or explaining himself for Moses approval before he set out, we have to be willing to do the same in our daily lives. <P>For myself in this journey to know the Father, with my personality, (that I have to remember He gave me) I began trying to understand his character in terms of emotions, since this area of myself, I tend to deny and God doesn't want me to deny any part of me. To understand that Jesus cried and grieved etc. in order to understand m own feelings of grief, etc. How can we emulate the character of God if we do not know what it is? <P>Was going to share more about this but also share an interesting statement heard in one of the messages yesterday in regards to the Lord God and the words "I AM", but in searching for something that I wanted to quote to you, I stumbled across this verse:<P>NU 11:23 The LORD answered Moses, "<B>Is the LORD's arm too short?</B> You will now see whether or not what I say will come true for you."<BR> <BR>So many times we read the Lord saying "I AM" something, mostly that he is Lord, but also that He is our shield, our share, our inheritance, etc. Most of the names given to the Father, our banner, our comfort, our strength, etc...came from those who experienced his grace and mercy in times of trouble. He is the "I AM", able to be all things to us. I know he will bring back this verse in Numbers to me many times in my journey to be the woman and wife he desires for me to become. Oh, that I can remember when He challenges me to risk or to grow in an area where I am weak, to hear Him say "Is my arm too short"....<P>God has such a succinct way of putting things, of balancing truth and reality in our journey with Him. Listen in Dueteronomy:<P>DT 30:1 When all these blessings and curses I have set before you come upon you and you take them to heart wherever the LORD your God disperses you among the nations, [2] and when you and your children return to the LORD your God and obey him with all your heart and with all your soul according to everything I command you today, [3] then the LORD your God will restore your fortunes* and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you. [4] Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the LORD your God will gather you and bring you back. [5] He will bring you to the land that belonged to your fathers, and you will take possession of it. He will make you more prosperous and numerous than your fathers. [6] The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live. [7] The LORD your God will put all these curses on your enemies who hate and persecute you. [8] You will again obey the LORD and follow all his commands I am giving you today. [9] Then the LORD your God will make you most prosperous in all the work of your hands and in the fruit of your womb, the young of your livestock and the crops of your land. The LORD will again delight in you and make you prosperous, just as he delighted in your fathers, [10] if you obey the LORD your God and keep his commands and decrees that are written in this Book of the Law and turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.<P> DT 30:11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. [12] It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, "Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" [13] Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, "Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" [14] No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.<P> DT 30:15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. [16] For I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the LORD your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess.<P>WOW! Funny, how I start out to share something to you and the Lord takes me in a whole nother direction. Perhaps though, it is the same direction, just along a different path than I was taking. <P><B>"You can't stay where you are and go with God." </B><P>Father, thank you for your word and your promises to never leave or forsake us. Thank you for taking us on this journey to help us to better understand what it means to love you with all our hearts, minds and souls, for giving each of us an insight into your character that we may share with one another and be bonded in your family. Father, continue to teach us and make us moldable, pliable to hearing your truths and being obedient to your will. IJN, Amen.

I watched ANNA AND THE KING yesterday and there is a scene where she is talking to the king about her devastation at losing her husband. He says something like, "but if you had not suffered that loss, you would not have this opportunity to shape a king and a country."<P>It's also the first movie in a long time where the main character states they are a Christian, their actions suit being a Christian when they are faced with temptation and we see them praying and reading the Bible--all this in a Buddhist nation. Interesting.<P>Anyway, I thought this goes along with what can happen when we step out in faith, even in the face of loss & pain.<P>Dear God, each of us has our comfortable path, whether we are still on it, long for it, or have been knocked askew. Help us to take the time to find your path, that narrow path, that your soft voice gives us the directions for following. IJN. AMEN

Sue, <BR>I found several tings you said that touched me.<P><BR>You said something about emptying our selves of self and becoming vulnerable to receive what He will reveal to us.<BR>Wow, I do try to prepare my heart, but It clicked that I need to empty myself of self. I like that.<P>I also liked your questions. I do better when I ask questions and I do, but I'm not so sure I do when I am praying. This is something I am trying to incorporate.<P>asking: What do You want me to hear?<BR> How do You want me to respond?<BR> How does this fit in?<P>I think this is important. <P>I also could relate to being able to tell the difference when you are focusing on Him as opposed to all the other junk. Today is one of the first days that I am trying to stay focused on Him and today (the present) not the situation and the future outcome or not. When I stayed with today and Him I was calmer and felt better. As soon as thoughts and scenerios about the situation popped into my head I felt lousy, paniced etc. There was such a marked difference. I know it will take a bit to resist the temptation to think about the situation, because satan wants me in his grips, but God showed me so beautifully the difference.<P>Yes, Sue it is remarkable how we begin down one avenue and the Lord, leads us in a slightly different direction. Indoubtedly the Lord's path is better. It is like we have an idea and look up a way to explain it or a verse to support it and He says, Hey, over here, I have a much better verse or lesson for you." It happens to me all the time, but too mnay times I have ignored His call and gone about my own way. It is learning to turn our selves off, or empty our selves of us and be open and vulnerable and sensitive to hearing His directions. It is discipline and a daily exercise of saying, open my heart and ears and eyes to You Lord. This is waht I seek and this is seeking Him, I think.<P>Thanks Sue, you jogged a few thoughts here and I am going to give some more thought to them.<P>

Our pastor spoke last Sun. about how our emotions keep us from really being one with God. He said that Satan loves to get us all worked up, worried and fretting about the situation, because it takes our focus off God. And the less focused we are on the Lord, the easier it is for Satan to worm his way back in....... <BR>

Sorry about not answering last night. Good ole @Home was having cable problems across the Maryland/Virginia end of the world.<P>My post must have been going on the right direction for as soon as H got up, the attack intensified to the point that we were at 4 months ago. It was as if all the progress we made this past month was a sham, some kind of cover up of what is in his heart. I confess that I responded at times with the same yelling tone that he was throwing at me and all I could do was cry "Jesus for give me." He decided to not go to work, made disparaging remarks about me just wanting him to go to work and bring home money and have the life of Riley. Funny, 'cause the reality is that the income from the job where I put my notice in never came into this house any way as it was a joint agreement that the money from this job went into the church building fund, so not working this job does not impact us financially. <P>He spent the day crying, sighing, etc. How does one honor that? I was reminded often about the long arm of God and that he could fix this. I spent a good bit of time reading about holiness since that is one of the values that T & C talk about. They talked about if every marriage placed value on holiness, the following would be present:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Confession and ownership of the problems in each individual<BR>A relentless drive toward growth and development<BR>A giving up of everything that gets in the way of love<BR>A surrendering of everything that gets in the way of truth<BR>A purity of heart where nothing toxic is allowed to grow p.140<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>They talk about the quest for holiness needing to become larger than the relationship.<P>I think that is where we are at in this newly focused venture we are on, in seeking God with all our hearts, minds and soul, desiring to become the person who produces true love and life, becoming whole, trustworthy, honest, faithful and loving- HIS WAY. I will spend some time rereading Jerry Bridges "Pursuing holiness" today and see if it adds something for us all to chew on. I think the "pursuing" is part of what God desires, that we pursue Him as He pursues us.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>The path of obedience in the pursuit of holiness is often contrary to human reason. If we do not have the <B>conviction</B> in the necessity of obeying the revealed will of God as well as <B>confidence</B> in the promises of God, we will never persevere in this difficult pursuit. we must have conviction that it is God's will that we seek holiness--regardless of how arduous and painful the seeking may be. And we must be confident that the pursuit of holiness results in God's approval and blessing, even when circumstances make it appear otherwise.<P>A New Testament application of this same spiritual principle is found in the words of Jesus "[Matt. 6:33] But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well." (keeping in mind-vs 34:" Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.") The command is to seek God's kingdom first. There is a promise that as we do, God will provide for our temporal needs. Because we are often fainthearted rewgarding the promise of God, we find it difficult toobey this command of God. Consequently, we often give the affairs of this life top priority in the basic decisions of our lives.-from the Pursuit of Holiness by Jerry Bridges, p.144, 145<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><p>[This message has been edited by SueB (edited August 23, 2000).]

Sue, <BR>interesting stuff.<BR>Your last sentence <P>"I think pursuing is part of what God desires, that we pursue Him as He pursues us."<P>Absolutely. I made this mistake several years ago wondering why God was not communicating with me. I kept waiting for Him to contact me, sort of. I was studying James at the time and when I read James 4:8 it was like God hit me across the head with a 2x4.<BR> "Come near to God and He will come near to you."<P>He even gave me a poem that I wrote, and then He wanted me to share with our Bible study group. I did and this was the beginning of healing for me from low self esteem and getting rid of resentment, and other things that then led to 4 months later Him saying to me :Put Me in the middle of your marriage."<P>This week so many tings have come together. I was reading "Uttmost for His Highest from Yesterday (quite by accident actually, because I hit the wrong favorite on my list; but alas no accident, as God directed it).<BR>It was about well coming into real repentence, (using my own words and parphrasing I put into my journal last night)<BR>Jesus cannot come and do His work in me as long as there is anything blocking the way, either for good or bad. Am I prepared for Him to drag every wrong thing I have ever done into the light? Have I repented to a point of no longer defending any of my actions? Get to the end of yourself where you can do nothing, but where He begins to do everything." Wow, another 2x4 hit my head. I and many of us keep praying for our h's to get to the end of themselves in thier sin, etc...<BR> But wow i had to get to the end of myself in trying to fix it!!!!!! An eye opener. So as I have felt this utter frustration but realization that I cannot say anything more to my husband, because it has no effect, Guess what God had to lwet me get to that place. When I think about saying anything to him about our situation the air almost becomes thick. It is a frustration but it is a palable feeling, say nothing, because you can't do anything. Nothing you say or do will make a difference. Ony God can do it. I have known this but all of a sudden it just hit and it is almost like the spoken words taking life within you. I guess that is why God's word is considered "a loiving word". Then I put together the truth that hit me over the head the night before. "In all things God works for good." So when I put those things together, what fear or worry could I have. Then coupled with the truth from the other day that I must keep the focus on Him and on only one day at a time. It is amazing to me. Ouch, my head is starting to hurt from all those raps on the head with 2x4. But I praise the Lord with shouts of joy that He is getting through to me. And to bring it around to what I started with here, all because I am seeking Him for Him only and because I want to know Him more. <BR>This learning has been happening to us all lately. As week pursue Him He can pursue us. I think Sue to go back to what you said earlier, when we pursue Him, seek Him with all our hearts we are opening ourselves, making ourselves more vulnerable. We are also shutting up and in my case letting Him get a word in edgewise. We have to wuiet our own fears and worries and fretting, in order to be able to hear HIm.And we can not do that until we are ready to answer His pursuit of us by pursuing HIm. Praise be to the Lord, that He does not give up on us, like we do on HIm. We wait a short amount of time and then say He's not there. Look how long He patiently waits for us to get to the ends of ourselves long enough to look toward HIm. I am excited!!!!!!!!!!!!<P>The second post you made just confirms what we have talked about here. It is so neat how it is all coming together, the boundaries, the POPW and noe seeking Him. Giod is so good. I was also struck in the obedience department. It is probably not the big items that are the problem either. Just today while I was praying the kids called me to see something on tv. I had finished one prayer and before launching into the next one, I ran out to see it. Now, was that putting God first? I had to say it is these seemingly smaller events that slip by unnoticed that are of the same sin value in God's eyes as the big things. <BR> "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.... Speak and act as those who are going to be judges by the law that gives freedom, because judgement without mercy will be shown to anyone who has been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgement." (James 2:10, 13)<BR>Sue looks like God has us learning much of the same heart attitude. Thanks for adding the Gary Bridges comments.<BR>I pray the day is better for you today.<P><p>[This message has been edited by hw (edited August 23, 2000).]

Dear sisters,<P>I doubt a lot to post this, b/c i don't know if i am going with what you want to do here.<BR>But here it goes<P>When i first read the title of the new topic, i said to myself Ok this is not for me b/c i am with God!! and then i asked myself if i could be able to tell you how it feels being with God and now i have to confess that I DON'T KNOW!! .<P>Now i can realize that for me being with God meant tell OK GOD i know you want me married so here i am married, please take care of my marriage the next 50 years. Suddenly i was facing serious troubles in my marriage b/c (now i know that) i didn't care of it i forget with the idea of surrender to God was leaving Him all the hard work. That moment i asked him "God why is this happening, You didn't want me married? So one of two or you didn't explain yourself well or i didn't understand you!!" All this time i was LB and putting my H in more withdrawal!!.<BR>Then i said to God " OK you want me single with a kid!!, i'll do that" (still didn't want to put all my efforts on my marriage)and began to doubt the existence of God b/c i thought all this mess in my life means one of two:<BR>1) God does not exist, so all this is my fault.<P>2) God exists but made a huge mistake, and cannot fix anything<P>Suddenly i found this site with all its wisdom and support and for the first time in my life i thought that God's plan for me could be being married with that man b/c i have to learn a lesson from all of this.<BR>The time goes by and began Plan A, and came to this forum and began to read your discussion about POPW it was really hard for me to do that!! TOO MUCH SUBMISSION!!! and i've always been against that i've never thought that i've been able to give the other chick i always needed revenge!!!<P>Now i know for sure that my sin (one of them) is PRIDE, my lesson is hard. I have to surrender to God totally, that's the way for me to find him. So i am also seeking God with all my heart!! Hope at the end of this journey i could say that i did it that i found God and He lives inside me and I live inside Him.<P>Praise the Lord, that never leaves me even though i doubt His existency.

Trapito,<BR>I was having lots of trouble posting this afternoon, and was surprised that the first word of this posted. So I guess I ought to add a meassage. <BR>As I was saying we all have trouble seeking God from time to time. We can be self centered, self-righteous, prideful, wanting to be our own god by insisting we do it our way, idoltry, and much more. We often think we are seeking God with all our hearts, but somehow we get off the path slightly and we find ourselves seeking our own agenda, even if indeed it is a good one and a godly one. The problem though, we are trying to lead instead of following all of a sudden. We get ahead of God somehow. We look back and wonder how it happened even.<BR>We have to surrender ourselves and our will every day and Seek Him by reading His word and praying. I know my trap is after a few days then I think it is all alright and I slip back into bad habits. It is hard, but when you come to God seeking Him, He is faithful to answer. He is always there waiting. For it is not He who moved away in the first place, but ourselves led off by those little doubts the enemy throws at us, or starting to think if this is okay lets try this.<BR>Trapito you said that you wanted to seek God and in the end you hoped you would find Him. Be reassured that you will. There are many places in the Bible where God says, when you seek me, I will be found my you.<P> Deuteronomy 4:29<BR> 1 Chronicles 28:9<BR> 2 Chronicles 15:2, 30:19<BR> Psalm 34:10, 105:3-4, 119:2<BR> Jeremiah 29:13<BR> Hosea 10:12<BR> Amos 5:4<BR> Zephaniah 2:3<BR> Matthew 6:33, 7:7-8<BR> Luke 12:31<BR> Hebrew 11:6<BR> James 4:8<P>These might be a start for you. God keeps His promises. <BR>If you seek Him, be confident, He will be found by you...<P><p>[This message has been edited by hw (edited August 23, 2000).]