If you don't know my whole story please read it at : Please help me understand or Just found out : My wife got caught.<BR> <BR>Anyway, things had started looking better, I was starting to trust and believe again.<BR> She said that the only time it happened was just the one night, I thought she was telling the truth but, I recieved a reply on another site from a military police officer that had busted people having affairs. He told me why and how they catch people (usually known, with suveilance).<BR>He said that in 17 years of doing this, they are always caught because they have been doing it for a while and the MP's catch on to it.(seeing which people spend too much time together) <P>I confronted her with this new evidence, and she continues to tell me that it was ONLY ONCE. I don't know what to belive. She has made it really hard to believe anything that she says since she lied so much after she promised no more lies and complete openess and honesty with me.<BR>I've become so paranoid and stressed that I can't sleep, can't concentrate at work, and have totally lost my appetite.(I've lost 37 pounds in the last three weeks, almost all muscle too )<P>And to make things worse, I've talked myself out of believing her when she says it's over between them.<P>I need some advice real bad!!!!<BR>JW<BR>jwarn@earthlink.net

JW<BR>Lies automatically go along with the affair. Some betrayers (like my H who had a long-term affair) actually forget what was the reality and what was the lie. Most try to tell a partial truth so that they don't get tripped up.<P>Sooo, you might not ever get the "real truth". And you have to figure out how to handle that. As my H has said, "I was unfaithful, I lied to you for months & months, what more do you really need to know."<P>Plenty of course. But he has a point. I do have details, and they hurt. Worse there are words, situations & places which trigger those hurts. Take some time to figure out what you really need to know and if those details will help you or save your marriage.<P>Just my thoughts.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Do not get tired of doing what is right, for after awhile you will reap a harvest of blessings if you do not get discouraged and give up. (Gal 6:9)

JW,<P>What is your W saying or doing in response to your obvious distress over this? Have you talked to her about her connection with OM before Thanksgiving? You description of the phone conversations would suggest that she was at least emotionally involved before then. Is she in withdrawl? After the court martial did they reassign the OM to another unit? <P>We need some details to work with, but you will survive this. Please take care of yourself. Punishing yourself by not eating is not going to allow you to have the strength to deal with this. Further, the lack of eating along with lack of sleep almost guarentees that you will not be thinking straight. Right now you really need to be thinking straight. Like you never have before.<P>Hang in there JW.<P>God Bless You and Your W<P>JL

First of all, thank you Lor & JL,<BR> There are things that trigger feelings... She has told me what outfit she was wearing that night. Turns out it was my favorite. So obviously I hate seeing her in it now. And because she has told me EVERY detail about EVERYTHING, I'm even uncomfortable in bed with her ( she's told me that he touched her in the same way I do and did a lot of the same things I do) Now I think that every time I do something or touch her a certain way, that she's thinking about him. <P>It's obviously a big mental wall I'm going to have to get over. Because I mentioned what I was thinking to her and although she says that she doesn't think about him when she's with me, I know that by me saying it makes her think about him. I guess I need to hold back some of my thoughts, right??<P><BR>JL,<BR> After bringing up the point to her of an EA. She admits that's what was going on during the phone calls.<BR>She says that she started having long conversations with him about 4 days after she got there, which just happens to be when her calls started becoming one sided.<P>After the hearing and sentencing (about a week and a half ago) she's started opening up more and more... I think that might be because reality hit when the Colonel read out the punishment. Unfortunately justice was not fair!! She got a real harsh punishment(grounded,lost rank,lost two months pay,extra duty etc.) and he did not get anything but a written reprimand.<BR> I even wrote a letter to the commander on her behalf telling him about the lifetime of punishment that she has put herself through, which didn't sway him at all.<P>And no, they are still in the same squadron, which bugs the daylights out of me! <P>She see's him in passing almost everyday. She swears though that she has no feelings for him whatsoever except anger. She promises that she doesn't even say hi to him, which he does everytime he sees her. She says that she just keeps walking...I'm trying my hardest to trust her.<BR>JW

JW,<P>Trust will take a long time to build back...<BR>It will only come back to you after she continually shows to you her honesty... and starts meeting more of your <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>. Thats part of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Four Rules for a Successful Marriage</A> (and guide marital recovery (page 87 of SAA))<BR><OL TYPE=1> <BR><LI> <B>The Rule of Protection:</B> Avoid being the cause of your spouse's unhappiness.<BR><LI> <B>The Rule of Care:</B> Meet your spouse's most important <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A>.<BR><LI> <B>The Rule of Time:</B> Take time to give your spouse undivided attention.<BR><LI> <B>The Rule of Honesty:</B> Be totally open and honest with your spouse.<BR></OL><P>Recovery isn't fast... no matter how long the affair was (even a one night stand.)<P>Now about you...<BR>...if you read any of the MB concepts...<BR><B>this is the time to build yourself up</B>...<BR>eat right... exercise... be the strong man she married!<BR>learn to let go of the hate... and anger...<BR>learn to forgive... check out...<A HREF="http://www.divorcebusting.com/forumlinks4.html" TARGET=_blank>Forgiveness is a Gift You Give Yourself</A>.<P>I'll keep praying for both of you... <P>Jim

JW,<P>I want you know something, what I am about to say is coming from old school, "male chauvinist pig", with a long family histroy with the military dating back to Pearl Harbor. <P>I would go to the Squadron commander and then the Wing commander, and demand that the OM be moved to another squadron. I don't care what your W did, how she may have seduced him, she DID NOT make him do what he did. <P>If he claims that, I would look these two men/women in the eye and ask what type of men they have in the AF these days. Ones that a woman can physically overpower and have their way with? If so, then he should be discharged as physically unfit. <P>If you don't get satisfaction then you have congressional representatives. Use them for what they are supposed to do, represent you with the U.S. government.<P>Your W and the OM should not be in the same squadron and he should have recieved punishment. The rules of infidelity apply to both genders. The only thing that could possibly mitigate my opinion is if your W out ranked him and even then a member of the Armed Services cannot or should not follow an order that is known to go against military law. The "I was only following orders" excuse went out the window with the Neurumburg trials.<P>JW, I still feel that you wife has not told you everything. The Security Police knew something was going on before the two of them were caught. It is not normal procedure for them to come to someones quarters without a very good reason. Maybe now that the reality of the actions are coming home to your W, she will be more honest with you.<P>Now, some more advice that will be hard to take, but maybe think about. I know that certain physical things cause triggers for you now. However, some very smart and sensitive people who used to post here have given this advice. <P>Take over the triggers make places, events, and acts your own. In other words although the OM may have done things that you did with your W, you can "reclaim" them by doing them yourself. If they are pleasurable, you W will again associate them with you. <P>You cannot help that she will think about OM from time to time, but with time the thoughts will reduce in intensity and you will regain you status with her.<P>From what you have said, I am still unclear on where your W stands with you. Does she want the marriage to continue? Is she trying to show you she loves you? Is she confused and withdrawn from you now? If you can answer these question then the people here can walk you through the steps you may need to take to restore your marriage.<P>I had better close this far too long message. As you can tell, I am very hot about how this case was apparently handled. I think you are within your rights to demand that the situation be altered to meet your expectations.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

It's obvious you're in a lot of pain and distress right now (understandably), and I feel terrible for you!!! One question came to mind, though; why is your wife sharing all these painful details (what she wore, where he touched her) with you?? I can relate if you're asking, as I'm the detail-oriented type myself, but if she's volunteering all this hurtful information for the heck of it (while you do want to keep the lines of communication open), I think that's almost sadistic (as if what she did wasn't damaging enough). Just my opinion. Good luck, and take care of yourself (medication to get you through, if necessary).<p>[This message has been edited by quandry (edited February 01, 2000).]

JL,<BR> Just talked to her about two hours ago on her lunch break. And asked how they got caught. She has been saying that they were doing nightly tent checks,walked in and...<P>Her story now is what sounds more like the truth. She now says that they (SP's) spotted her from the tower kissing him in the doorway of the tent. Although the first "story" was believable to me at first because they were in a HFZ.<P>This brings to blame the AF some though. If they saw them go into the tent, why didn't the SP's go right in after them???<P>She says that she wants the marriage, and that she wants me and her to be happy again. Although I thought when she left for this last TDY we were happy. Shows what I know.<BR>JW<P>

JW,<P>If you think that she is being honest and she says she wants to continue the marriage, then you two ought to consider filling out the His Needs/Her Needs questionaire. It seems that you two need to understand each other better than you do. I have been married 24 years and I am still not sure what is going on. However, the lack of knowledge can be very dangerous as you know. <P>If she is willing or even if she is not, you have work to do on your marriage and it ought to start soon. <P>Finally, consider what I said in the last post about getting them separated. Dr. Harley swears (I guess he swears ) that no contact between W and OM is essential for the marriage to survive and the affair to really die.<P>I look forward to hearing from you again.<P>God Bless Both of You,<P>JL

JL,<BR>She says that's she's being completely honest with me, now. We have filled out the emotional needs sheet. There were'nt really that many differences. <P>She admits that I've always been completely open and honest with her and she hasn't always done the same.<P>As an update. We were up until 0300 this morning talking about us. <P>I have a bit of a better understanding of the life changing events that took place. She was lonely and depressed being in the middle east. She needed more than the 15 minute once per week calls that she was allowed to have.<BR>So once the OM started showing interest in her, she in her own words last night said "I just lost track of what is really important to me". <BR>She honestly states that she had no sexual feelings for him until he tried the kiss on Thanksgiving. She pushed him away, ended the conversation with him,and went to her tent. She says that when she went to bed that night is when she started wondering what it would be like to "be" with him. I really can't blame her though, I'm the only one she's ever been with. <P>She told me last night, that she realizes now that his intentions were'nt to be her friend for who she is but was just interested in her body. (and what a body it is !! )<P>She says that she really did not intend for it to happen, it just did. She also has discovered a fact about the night that she says should have been her clue then as to his intentions: In the middle of the dessert with very few women at the base that were'nt cloaked head to toe in black, and he had a condom in his pocket, hmmm.<P>Anyway, things are looking a little brighter. For the first time in a long while, I actually felt she was opening up to me. <BR>Is this a sign of good things to come???<BR>JW

JW,<P>These are very good signs. But don't be surprised that the infamous "coaster" ride takes place. Things good one day and not so good the next. It seems that you two are beginning to final process this stuff.<P>Have you two thought about some counseling? It seems like it would be a very good idea. If she stays in the service she will be in isolated type TDY's again and she needs tools to handle it. Further, the counseling might help you get through some of your issues.<P>You two are on the right track: honest and communications. Lots of communications.<P>God Bless You and Your W,<P>JL<P>PS. I would still seek to get OM out of squadron.

JL,<P>Well, she talked to her C.O. yesterday evening about reomoving him from the squadron. He says that it can't be done because he out ranks her. One rank before the C.M. and now three after the C.M.. So she requested a transfer for herself. She is moving to a support unit of her orig. squadron.<P>That really breaks my heart though because she loves to fly. And although she was grounded, she would have regained flight status in July. Now she is in support for two years. <P>I took your advice last night, and tried reclaiming some of my "territory" . It felt awkward but, I did it with your insight that she will again associate it with me. <P>Something good/bad happened last night...<BR>We went to the store after I got home from work, when we returned OM had left a message on the answering machine. I got pissed!!! She told me that he has NEVER called her, and that she did NOT give him our number. But she helped me cool off quite a bit, she called her first supervisor and told her that the OM had just called her at home. (Which broke a direct order from a commanding officer) By the way, that's really who she called (did it on the speaker phone). The C.O. said OM would be delt with!<P>Even though she seemed to correct the problem of him calling, I'm starting to have doubts again now about whether it's really over. What do you think?<P>JW<P>PS. Went to the gym this morning. It felt nice taking out some frustration on the iron.<p>[This message has been edited by JW (edited February 03, 2000).]

Quandry,<BR> Sorry it took me so long to reply to you but, I had to figure out why she said all that too.<P>The only thing I can come up with, is that she was upset about me finding out about the whole thing... After all, the OM promised my W that no one would ever find out, especially me! HE WAS WRONG!!!<BR>But then again, how would I not find out when he started telling all of his buddies how he in his own words "bagged" my W.<P>Now back to her being sadistic by telling me. As far as I can determine, it was kind of vengeful. More of "you want to know everything, here it is!!" But that was fear and guilt talking as far as I can figure out. She has never tried to hurt me.<P>JW

JW--<BR> Sounds like you and your W are making progress...and you are to be commended for wanting to understand and support your wife. I know it is hard in the midst of all the conflicting emotions, but it is a good sign. Hang in there-<BR>Kathi

JW,<P>You will have doubts about things for quite awhile. That is why this journey is referred to here as the "roller coaster" ride. But it seems to me she is starting to come around. She absolutely did the right thing by calling the CO about the contact. She did the right thing by transferring to another squadron.<P>You did the right thing by being with her last night. You do need to understand she will probably feel a little reluctant as well , because of the guilt associated with the act. She has been publicly punished for it and that is very embarressing. <P>Maybe society should review our acceptance of these behaviors and look at how the military deals with it. It is surely is not perfect but there are at least some consequences.<P>Finally, about the OM calling. As I said she handled it perfectly. Further, I have the feeling that the OM is greatly relieved but embarressed that he got off lighter than she did. I suspect that he will feel the consequences of that from his peers and the respect or lack thereof, from the people he commands. What I am trying to say is he may have been trying to contact her to apologize. If he is any kind of decent human being, he probably feels he should.<P>Of course, what needs to happen is that he gets lost and stays lost. But right now don't put much effort or thought into OM's attempt to contact. Just be vigilent and open for your W to talk to you. That is what Plan A is for. It is to help you provide a place for W to come and talk to you without fear of being beaten down verbally, emotionally, and certainly physically. No! LB's<P>JW, keep up the good work and keep communicating with your W. She will need you help to get through this. It is odd that this seems to be the situation. The person hurt the worst will have to help the person who provided the pain. But she will be able to help you to. Life is a team sport.<P>I look forward to hearing from you about your progress. Just be prepared, it will go up and down. <P>God Bless You and Your Wife,<P>JL

Kathi,<P>Thanks so much for your words of support and incouragement. <P>Although to me it doesn't always seem like we're making progress, I guess that's the roller coaster though. It really helps me when people like you and JL and everyone else that has offered words of support tell me that we're making progress.<P>Thank you!<BR>JW

JL,<P>I got kind of an explanation yesterday on why OM did'nt get any punishment other than a suspended Article 15 that fell to an LOR.<P>He was up for promotion in Oct. 99, turned it down, and did not re-up. His term is up in June or July of 2000 (I'm not sure which month). Which will be REALLY GOOD!!! <P>So hopefully if she's telling the truth about them being over, he will finally be out of our life. And I can't wait!!<P>I'm getting stressed again though. Tomorrow 5 Feb., there is a squadron presentation to a Brig. General. My W is one of the people that was chosen to make a presentation to him (pretty good despite all that happened to her, the big C.M.). But what is stressing me is that OM is also going to be there!!! <P>She promises that she will not have any contact with him but, how is she going to do that knowing that they will for the first time since the arrest be in the same room together?? <P>How is she not going to end up talking to him? I talked to her about this last night, and she said that she doesn't know how she will avoid it. So of course once again I'm lost and confused in my thoughts of them having contact. Any thoughts?<P>And what you said about OM needing to apologize. He did the night that they were arrested. While they were waiting to be released by the acting CO from the SP station he said "I'm sorry we got caught". <P>When she told me this all I could think was, "what kind of Sh*t is that?" No aplology for ruining her career, her reputation, her marriage!!! But why should he care, he already knew that he was getting out of the service.<P>JW<BR>This roller coaster is making me sick.<p>[This message has been edited by JW (edited February 04, 2000).]

JW,<P>Some apology Huh! You do wonder don't you? It is good that he is getting out. He should be out now as far as I am concerned. My take on this right now is to say, don't worry too much about this presentation ceremony. <P>The CO will be there I suppose as will many other people aware of the situation. They will be watched. I would guess you're W will probably come home in less than a good mood. Because being near him will reinforce the guilt. There might be other feelings as well, but I would bet on guilt being the primary one. <P>Be kind to her and take care of her. This is where the Plan A treatment can really be effective. I don't know you or your W but kindness and friendship right now will help.<P>You are making some progress, just don't get impatient. Have you begun to evaluate yourself, on meeting her needs better? This the is the time to do a even better job of being a husband. An investment now , will produce hugh dividends for the rest of your marriage.<P>Good luck and God Bless You and Your W.<P>JL

JL,<P>I just got back from having lunch with her. My supspicion is way high right now...She usually tells me when I pick her up if she had seen him that day. <P>Today she didn't tell me, so of course my mind started racing at a million miles per hour. She also wasn't talking that much. I finally had enough of it and asked her if she had ran into him today. She defensively said yes, as it turns out they had been working together the entire day so far, but swears nothing is going on.<P>The rest of our hour together she was real short and snappy. So I can't help but think something is going on. I don't know what to do. <P>I've been thinking that progress was happening and things were finally looking up, but now I'm feeling like giving up on it. Doing all the work myself is starting to wear me out.<P>What should her part in this rebuilding process be? Because I'm starting to feel she's not puting into it a fraction of what I am.<BR>Help<BR>JW

JW,<P>Yep! You are doing all of the heavy lifting right now. But it will change. She is going to have to live with the guilt and some level of it for the rest of her life. Hopefully, the level will be low, but it will be there.<P>What are you going to do? I'll tell you what you are going to do. You are going to love her like you want to. As I said in the earlier post, meeting the OM will drag her down because of the guilt, no matter how she feels about OM. <P>You cannot fix how she feels, but if she came home grouchy because of a sore back wouldn't your rub it? Wouldn't you be nice to her. She cannot help having to work with OM now. So you cannot judge her by this contact.<P>However, you know that she is very reluctant to tell you about it. Why? She is afraid of your reactions and maybe her feelings. If you make her comfortable now, she will feel better about talking to you on this matter.<P>You see why Plan A is important? It is like the making things your own again aspect of things. If you are nice, and loving to her tonight you are welcoming her back to you. You are not being a doormat, she knows you hurt. <P>Enough of the lecture. JW, she is maybe hurting as much as you and she cannot avoid the OM yet. Maybe when her transfer comes through, but not yet. So it will drag her down. There are many ladies who have betrayed on this forum, and they constantly speak of how seeing the OM really brings them down.<P>Plan A my man. A little TLC tonight will go a long ways. Trust me on this.<P>Have at it, JW.<P>God Bless You and Your W,<P>JL