<B>Purplemag</B> -- Thanks for the comments. Remember that here, you don't always need to have any sage advice or words of wisdom. Just your presence and acknowledgement can be the comfort someone needs.<P>Today is 10 months since D-Day. I find that the love is still there, the wish to work things out is still there, but the patience has worn thin.<P>It no longer hurts as much to think of us permanently parting and the desire to build a new life with or without her has grown tremendously.<P>She will always have a special place in my heart. I just hope she doesn't do things to tarnish those memories before she decides to call it "quits".

DeWayne,<P>My heart and prayers go out to you. I hate that you are going through this. The mixed signals are the worst, aren't they? One day it seems as if they want the marriage, and then the next time, they give you the I need time spill. I know your patience is worn thin, but try hang in there for as long as you can. Start doing what is best for you. Use this time apart to strengthen you. I hate that she decided to leave because I know how hard it is to work on things living apart. But do the best you can to keep up the progress. Keep a good line of communication with her, but just as I am learning to do, try to appear calm, strong, and confident. Trust me, I know this is not easy and I will admit I need prayer in this area too. Just get on with your life and prepare yourself for the worst, but hope for the best. <P>Once again, I will keep you and your wife in my prayers.<P>By the way, is there anyway that she can tell her boss that she mistakenly ommitted OM's name off her 'do not want to work with list?' It seems as if she had a say so in the final decision of who her partner would be so she should at least try to get that decision reversed. It's only fair! <P>------------------<BR>"If you can learn from the mistakes of others, you won't have to make them youself."<P>lady_divine77@yahoo.com

<B>Jamie-Lee</B> -- Thanks for the good thoughts and prayers. This is probably the beginning of the end. At least I'm prepared for that now. I hate that any of us are in situations that make us want to be here. Life is fair but also so unfair at times.<P>As far as W talking to her boss, you are assuming that she doesn't want OM working with her. I assure you that this isn't the case and since my feelings don't mean a damn, then nothing will happen.<P>I only wish all of this would somehow come out at her work. I'm changing my thoughts on this and am starting to feel cheated that she is getting off scot-free.<P>Hugs to you,<P>--DeWayne--

DeWayne,<P>Have been lurking. I always knew that my H woul move out. I knew that with what he was feeling we would never have a chance to make a go or it. He would have to find out for himself that his ideas were not real. I couldn't keep him home even though I tried everyway possible. But I hoped he left with good thought of me and how much I love him. I wish I had confidence in the outcome and I know you do too. BUt one think is for sure we have given it everything we could and we are still giving it. i know there will be a time that if we don't see some improvement or hope we will take that next step. BUt when we do we will at least have the knowledge that we tried our best. And that knowledge will help us move on. Lots of{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}} my dear friend.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

DeWayne,<P>Are you feeling any better today?????<P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

<B>Diana</B> -- You know you are so right! I've got to make some kind of decision soon. When I was in Germany, I told her that by the time she moved out, I wanted her to have the threesome cut down to a twosome. I told her I didn't care who got tossed, whether me, the OM or both. Well, when I told her that I didn't have any realistic expectation that she would do anything.<P>I guess she thinks that I'm supposed to take her comment that she just wants to be "friends" with him and that they have some kind of unspoken "understanding" and be satisfied with that. Well, she hasn't done enough to rebuild the level of trust necessary for me to do that.<P>Yup, we've given it our best shots, haven't we?? At this point, I would even find peace if she said it was over between us. She got us into this mess and I think she should be the one to clean it up.<P>Anyway, big ole' hugs back to ya...<P><BR><B>Desiree</B> -- No, not really feeling any better. Thought she might want to enjoy our last few nights together, but I was wrong. She came home from work last night really PO'ed about an incident at work and at me. She was mad at me because I had asked her if she was avoiding me.<P>I tried to have a reasonable, nice conversation about this. I said that I wasn't accusing her of anything, that I was just going to tell her what I was feeling and why. The reasons I gave that, for me, added up to avoidance were: 1) still in the other bedroom; 2) absolutely no contact during the workday with me; 3) never see her at the house at lunch even though we both go home to eat.<P>I'm just too tired to go into this again, but suffice it to say that she had "reasons" for the first two and just didn't address the second.<P>I laughed, made jokes and teased her a little to try to get her out of the anger funk, but nothing worked so I just went to bed, alone, again.<P>A friend of mine has a birthday today, so his girlfriend sent an e-mail inviting several of us to get him drunk tonight in celebration. I'm going, forwarded the e-mail to W yesterday and got no response either then or last night, so she isn't going. I'm not going to stay home with her since she obviously doesn't care that I would like to be close the last night together.<P>I am soooo tired, but thanks for asking...<P>--DeWayne--

Hi D,<P>Just a quick check-in... I can imagine you've got lots to think about right now. Hang in there... you know you'll get thru it. And, you'll feel better over the long term. Especially if you know you're doing the best you can given a difficult situation.<P>So she's snarly, eh? Prob'ly should expect it. This is a very emotional time for her too. I'm sure she's having all sorts of thoughts and feelings in parallel to yours. Wicked guilt, yanoo? After all, she's the one initiating this. She's the one inflicting the pain. Chances are high she's disappointed and angry in herself. Funny how that manifests itself as wizzed-off at you. Life's little ironies.<P>Anyhoo, I can imagine it's hard for you to be too sympathetic towards her right now. That's okay. Just ride it out. The road's gonna be bumpy for awhile as you process through all this stuff. Hang in there with us, D.<P>Keep perspective. Promise me you'll give it a coupla months before making major long-term decisions?<P>Later,<P>DMac

Hey <B>dMac</B> -- Checking in again, huh? Well, I'm happy for that. Yeah, got a lot of loose ends to tie up. Not a lot to really think about, done that already. Just gotta find a way to bring this to closure somehow.<P>You know, I really don't believe she's experiencing any negative emotions about herself except for the fact she can't seem to make any decisions. I mean if one accepts Suse's take on this, which I am inclined to do, you wouldn't expect much in the way of strong emotions. This thing at work is something she has been angry about for a couple of years. Me, she's been angry at me off and on for 10 years. Nothing new here and nothing to do with the affair or OM. Again, I think any disappointment or anger she may have for herself would only be related to the inability to make decisions.<P>I'm counting on you folks to hang in there with me. This road may be bumpy, but I'm not getting on that roller coaster again. Not gonna invest that much feeling anymore.<P>I wish I could make you that promise, but I can't. I might make it, but I'm not gonna try to guarantee it. If I find out that she slept with OM again, then decision made. She knows that. I've been way too supportive of someone that doesn't believe she has any problems, just me.<P>Thanks, buddy.....<P><BR>--DeWayne--

DeWayne,<P>Sorry about how this is playing out. Crappy to the end of the line! <P>Don't you know in our S's eyes, I guess hardly anyof us can do anything right!<P>Go out tonight and try to have a good time. Keep reminding yourself of all the people who love you, who care about you and who want to spend time with you....like the friends you will be with tonight. Try NOT to focus on the fact that only one person doesn't want to spend time with you.<P>From what I can see...SHE'S the loser here....<P>Keep your chin up, DeWayne. I will be here to support you and stand by you no matter what you decide. I suspect this weekend is gonna be a killer for you. I will be checking in to see how it goes....<P>{{{{{{{{{{{DeWayne}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

I'm so sorry for what you're going thru. I don't know what to say that could take away your pain. You'll be in my thoughts this evening. I'm glad you'll be with friends. Please be kind to yourself tonight.

<B>Desiree</B> -- Thanks for the hugs...I guess I'm not as down as I was, but it's because I'm extremely busy and there's going to be a lot of work this weekend. The problem with situations like we find ourselves in is that there are no winners. Not us, not our spouses.<P>If I have time, I'll post something over the weekend.<P><B>Moira</B> -- If you find the magic words to take away pain, create a post full of them for all of the people here, including yourself. That which does not kill you makes you stronger, but it's still a royal pain. Hey, I'm always kind to myself!! LOL!!<P>Take care....<P>--DeWayne--

Hey Dewayne,<BR>Sorry to hear things are so tough. I agree with Dmac and his wife about your w trying to "let you down easy." This may be here attempt to avoid guilty feelings if she were just to leave.<P>I'm reading a good book "Rebuilding When Your Relationship Ends" by Dr. Bruce Fisher and he points this out. Her attempts just keep leading you on that there may be a chance for you when she really sees it as being over.<P>My x sounds an awful lot like your w. My x has never shown any remorse to me. She did appologize a week or two ago for not getting anti-deps earlier. She says she can now look at herself in the mirror and like herself.<P>How someone can run away from their marriage and kids and still like themself is beyond me!<P>Hang in there. Maybe you do need Plan B.<P>Bob<P>------------------<BR>"You can't always get what you want! But if you try real hard,you might just find, you get what you need!"<BR>Mick Jagger

<B>Bob</B> -- Yeah, I think you guys are right with one amendment. She isn't quite ready just yet herself for the big "D", so she is also trying to let herself down easily.<P>Thanks so much for being around and take care.<P><B>Update</B> -- She informed me last night that she and her sister are going to stay at the house with me next week. Still going to move out half of the furniture today, so it doesn't make any sense at all. I'm thinking of telling her "NO WAY" on them staying. It wouldn't take much to pi$$ her off into making that decision herself. Last week, I wanted them to stay here. Right now, I don't.<P>--DeWayne--

Dewayne,<P>Remember plan A let her leave with good memories of you. I know it is hard and I didn't do it but that was before I heard about plan A. Yes she may be trying to let you down easy or herself but I think a lot has to do with the state of confusion that they live in. I think deep down really deep down they know what they are doing is wrong but there is that thing that pushes them on to keep behaving they way they are. I don't understand it wish I did. I wonder if it like a battle going on inside them. or like a split personality. Back and forth. Anyway, She may be trying to make you mad enough to push her out so she won't have to make that decision. I know mine tried that a lot and I wouldn't do it. He had to make the decision to leave on his own. I think that is what you need to do make her make the decision by not responding to anger. I think later it will help that they went on their own, if we push them out that is their excuse for not coming back. That is why he will have to file first if at all I am not giving him any reason for not coming back. I am working on plan A still even though he is gone. I see glimmers of hope but who knows how to read anything they do. I think that some where down the line they will start realizing that they have made the wrong decision and if we were not the ones to push them then that makes it easier for them to ask to come home. Of course this is my theory only haven't proved it yet but I am working on and maybe you should too. I know it is hard and painful and we want to hurt them like they have hurt us but there is nothing to gain by it except more pain. I know I am rambling and I hope this make sense to you. I just don't want you to do anything now that you might regret later. So hang in there. Lots of {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

DeWayne,<P>Waiting to hear how your weekend went. I'll check back here tomorrow.<P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

<B>Diana</B> -- Don't worry, everything you said makes perfect sense. Especially the "split personality" thing. You can Plan A to death, but at some point, enough is enough. As Mitzi said in another thread(and I said this before), every one of our situations is unique and involves some variation of a standard plan.<P>Hang in there, girl and lots of hugs....<P><BR><B>Desiree and everyone</B> -- Well, I did something that most of you will not like and I'll get to that in a sec. <P>I went out with friends Friday night. Before I left, W informed me that she and her sister were going to stay in the house with me this week. Even so, we were still going to move her out on Saturday. We argued a bit because I wanted to know why she wanted to stay here when half the furniture would be in the apartment. She went on to her standard argument that I always question her decisions. I told her that in this case it affected me. She pretty much ended it by saying "It's my house, too". <P>When I got home, W was passed out on the couch after having drunk quite a bit of wine. I checked that last number called on the phone and it was OM. That pretty much did it for me. The next morning I wasn't in a very good mood. At one point I reminded her of what we had talked about on the phone while I was in Germany. I had told her that there were three people in this little soap opera and I wanted her to reduce this number to two or one before she moved out. If she didn't, then I would have to. Since she didn't, on Saturday morning I told her that I would step aside and accelerate the divorce, which is what I'm going to do.<P>Several times this weekend she cried and I held her and comforted her. She said at one point "I don't want to leave you" and I just replied "Well you are aren't you?". No response(as usual). I mean, it's obvious that at some level, she deeply cares for me, but not enough to distance herself from OM, or stop lying to me.<P>Last night before we went to bed, I thanked her for being honest a month ago when she told me she had "unresolved feelings" for OM. I asked her what those feelings were. She didn't really want to tell me, but she eventually said that they were more than "just friends". Then less than five minutes later, she tried to tell me that they "were" just friends. I asked if OM has told her he loved her recently and she said "No". OM did tell her "You know, I love you very much" on Friday night. <P>I am just fried and will carry out this divorce ASAP unless she takes the action I requested which was to have a talk with OM and get this stuff stopped. I told her on Saturday that she was being disloyal to me. She asked how that was and I just said by carrying on the affair(EA only). She's guilty as sin and I'm tired as a bear that has missed the start of hibernation.<P>I'm doing what is best for me at this point. In some ways I have it better than many here whose spouses left a long time ago. However, we are in exactly the same state as 10+ months ago and with her moving out, it will deteriorate.<P>Other than that, she has most of her stuff in the apartment now and I very cheerfully and helpfully moved it with the help of a friend. I can really understand and accept the moving out and what she wants to do, but I'm sorry, the OM thing has to be resolved to at least my minimal satisfaction and it's not going to be.<P>--DeWayne--

DeWayne,<P>These things just drag on and on and on. I don't think you acted very badly. You wife is still waffling...even if you do go through with the divorce, DeWayne, you have to admit the truth here...your wife is still waffling! <P>Whether you want to wait around to see what her final decision will be is another issue. I am sorry things continue to go downhill. You can still see a lawyer and do some things (preliminary paperwork) without actually filing. Go ahead and do these things if it makes you feel less victimized and more in control of your life.<P>I have done them all myself. I have seent he attorney and this weekend I finished the preliominary property diviosn paperwork. Next step for me is to invite my H over to review and see if we can come to mutual agreement about the division of property. Even this doesn't mean you have to file. But it does show the S that you mean business (IF YOU DO, AND I DO NOW) and are fully prepared to move ahead if you must.<P>Take care, DeWayne.<P>Happy Valentine's Day from a friend who cares.....<P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

<B>Desiree</B> -- Thanks for the Valentine wishes and lots of love back at ya...<P>I am fully prepared to move. I filed back in September. We have already agreed to the separation agreement(property settlement). Just have a couple of minor changes and then we're set. After that, it's just a petition for non-appearance so we don't have to go to court. The courts here usually grant this if there have been no major disagreements. Then submit the proposed decree to the court. My attorney said the whole thing can be finished the week after we sign the separation agreement.<P>You are right. She is waffling, and I have too in the past. Time is over for this. I have found my limit and this is it. She can stop this if she truly wants to.<P>--DeWayne--<P>