I talked to MIL tonight and she said she finally got an e-mail from my H. He finally mentioned OW - he never has up to this point. I went to the computer and looked in the "sent" folder and found this. I am now wondering if I should give up PlanB and think about filing the divorce in January. Here it is:<P>"Mom,<BR>alive and well, work has been hectic and our private lives moreso. I'm living at Jeb's now, but oldest S and I plan to get a house together whenever we have the time to look for one. Hope your Thanksgiving dinner went well. I spent the holiday in Tallahassee with OW. Her son, named X, was home from college. She cooked a turkey with all the trimmings and we had a great time. Oldest S said there was a large crowd arouond here also, but I don't know for sure who all attended. Desiree and I are working out the details of our separation, but other than that don't see each other or talk much. I know that our failure to make this marriage last has and will hurt others, but she is a wonderful person and I know that everyone will love her just the same, we just won't be together. Must get back to work. I love you and think of you often, Jim" <P>He sent this on Tuesday - the day after our talk this past Monday about the money and when he tried to kiss me goodbye, I refused to kiss him and he was upset.<P>This didn't really upset me alot, either. Maybe I am alot more detached than I thought.<P>I had my counselor session today and now have to wait 2 weeks - I graduated from the weekly sessions to 2 weeks But, I didn't get a chance start working on my future plan with counselor.<P>Don't know if I should continue PlanB - it has only been 7 weeks, or really think about doing the D in January.<P>I can not continue working on air, guys!!!!!!!! THOUGHTS, PLEASE>>>>>>>>>>>>><P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Hey RMA,<P>Boy, tonight is not treating either one us very well.<P>If you are truely ready to throw the towel in and give up on the marriage Plan B and divorce may be the answer.<P>You saw what I got tonight. I could just walk away and say screw it, but, that's not going to happen. She can't get rid of me that easy.<P>I'd tell you to stay with Plan A for the time being. Up to the point where you just can't take it anymore, then is Plan B. I'd also hold off on the divorce. I rushed it and am paying for it now.<P>It' not over yet.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P><BR>

RMA-<P>Well, my suggestion is to stay on Plan B. Don't do anything serious- filing- just yet.<P>I'm w/ Medic. Once you file, there is almost no stopping it.<P>Stay strong, my friend. Keep working on you!<P>Prayer to you.<P>Cheryl

Medic and ceecee,<P>Make no mistake here - I DO NOT WANT A DIVORCE. However, I have nothing to work with here. He is giving every indication that this is permanent in his view. How do you have a marriage with an absentee spouse???? <P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Desiree, It is very easy to do plan B with an absentee spouse. That is what plan b is. No contact. I don't think you realize how much contact you had with H. I think he depended on seeing you he has not really been without you. I think you need to do plan B for a few months not weeks. What have you got to lose? Nothing what have you got to gain your marriage if it is want you want. Take this time for yourself. Grow and then the time will come when you know you are ready for the next step. It will also give H time to see if this is what he really wants. Even though I am not in a true plan B something is now going on I don't know what but I think I am almost ready for anything. He even though there are still bad days the good start out numbering them. You need time, there is really no hurry. You don't need to make any decisions now take a break and take care of yourself for awhile. Pamper youself. Rest and eat. Then after awhile you canthen make this decision. {{hUGS}} <P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Hey, RMA. I kinda agree. Plan b might be a good idea for a while. A real plan b. Give yourself a little time anyway.<P>No good advice here tonight. Just wanted to say hello. And I'm thinking about you.<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{RMA}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Lori

{{{{{{{{{{<B>Roll Me Away</B>}}}}}}}}}},<P>This is my third try to type a response...<BR>God I love my kids... but putting them down sometimes takes <B>hours</B>...<P>I know you don't want a divorce...<BR>I don't want a divorce...<BR>I can't think of hardly anyone who wants a divorce...<P>So... hold back as long as you can...<P>You yourself said "I am alot more detached than I thought."... <B>That</B> is part of what Plan B is to do for you... Maybe it should last 18 months, like Harley says... maybe it should last 18 weeks... maybe 18 days... <B>only you will know when it's time</B>!<P>But the other part of Plan B is to build <B>you</B> for the future...<BR>I don't think 18 days is enough (Learn life in 21 days as a book... can't do it)...<BR>I'm not sure 18 weeks is enough...<BR>But some time more than January makes sense to me.<P>You are strong... much stronger than you think...<P>What do you have to lose waiting a little while longer(di... you've stolen my thunder... it's OK). Are you going to get more $$$ from him? Is revenge on your mind? If you are really <B>detached</B>... I mean <B>really detached</B>... time shouldn't matter. Don't rush... rush... rush..put yourself into a hole (like Jo... sorry Jo)... RMA... pace yourself. You have good company here. <P>A real detachment will make the divorce go easier...<BR>I'm not anywhere near detachment from my W... and this divorce stuff makes it that much worse...<P>"How do you have a marriage with an absentee spouse????"... This one I have been asking myself for 3 months now, Chris... 9 months+, and so many others too!<P>Time heals more than wounds...<BR>Time can rebuild you... and your thrist for life! You know we'll still be there for you... we're not going anywhere!<P>Love and care from a friend...<BR>A prayer and a lit candle...<P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited December 02, 1999).]

Diana,<P>Don't get me wrong here. But, I will be the first to admit I am confused about what is happening.<P>I am taking good care of myslef and doing great emotionally. Like sidney, I went from 127 pounds to 101 - verylow weight for anybody, much less a second degree black belt - no more muscles. I am up a few #s from there. I am eating and sleeping and resting and doing generally really well. I hardly cry or get depressed anymore.<P>What I do suffer from is CONFUSION. Now that I am getting the "old me" back - that person is "take chagre" and "sure footed". How can I move forward if I don't know where I am moving to??? This is what confuses me so much.<P>I expected my H to do alot of hwat he is doing when I started PlanB. Yes, Diana, I guess this is a poor PlanB because we do see eachother. With his offcie in the house, I avoid him as much as I can, but he pops over here when he knows I am home. Anyway, I am mostly avoiding him, I stopped calling him, I stopped doing personal things for him (except I do leave him coffee in the morning if I think he will be here), running no errands for him (like drycleaners, etc), not picking up his toiletries at the store, not sending food over to where he is living, not making goodies for him, no more gifts, no sex basically treating him like an acquaintance.<P>I expected him to "rebel" against me "cutting off his fringe benefits" and he did. He has spent almost all of his time with the OW and even took her on a vaction. Spent Thanksgiving there, and I suppose Christmas and New year's too. I have tried to stop meeting his needs so OW would have to do it all and they could either make it together and he'd move on, or it would flop and he might turn around and give me a second look.<P>So, I see him on Monday and he treied to kiss me and got upset when I wouldn't. Then he sends this e-mail that sounds like the D is for certain. <P>So, I'm wondering if this is all over or is it too soon to make alot of this e-mail? I have ZERO objectivity for my own situation. Only AFTER the fact can I figure it out. Diana, help!<P>Lori, you are sorta in the same boat -see H some. How do I do this?????<P>My rose colored glasses are now psychodelic!!<P>But, I am still happy! Still getting stonger! But, alas, still CONFUSED, too!<P>Roll Me Away - Put me on a plane and send me somewhere with a nice beach!!<BR><P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

NSR,<P>If ever I get just ONE reply, I KNOW it will be form you, NSR.<P>Read my posts and see what a confused little Roll me Away I am tonight. Also look at my post to airheart - I hope he doesn't get offended!<P>I know what D islike and I sure as HELL don't want to D this foolish man I am married to. <P>Diana and Jim,<P>OK, I have nothing to lose to continue PlanB, except my sanity, that is <P>Finances are NOT a concern for H and I. We are AOK in that area. H has agreed to pay half the housenote and utilites(he really didn't want to do the utilities, but I caught him in a guilty mode and he offered and I accepted). The house needs to remain in both names because of an active lawsuit on our house - another story. <P>I have NO DESIRE for revenge - but, honestly if he and OW didn't make it, I'd be the first to throw a big party!!!! If we D'd, I would be nice whenever I saw him, but I would avoid him if at all possible. I just wouldn't want to associate with him if it came to that.<P>I guess tonight the indecision about the new year is really on my mind. I have to be CAREFUL here - I am the ETERNAL OPTIMIST and I am trying to infuse REALITY in here too. But the lines are all blurred. what is real here and what is just reaction here by both my H and me???? Honestly, in my own situation, I just can't tell anymore.<P>After almost 10 months H finally told his Mom about the OW and that makes it seem "real" and "permanent" to me. See how I am all over the place here?<P>Ok. Enough already.....<P>Desiree <BR><P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

RMA-<P>First, I just read your response to airheart! WOW oh WOW! YOU impress me!!!<P>Now, on to you. Our H started their affair in Feb. It seems like a life time ago, I know. I know that you are feeling like you are getting yourself back, I feel that way too. <P>As for the confusion- Welcome aboard. Now that my fog has lifted, I am faced w/ the fact that my H left me and D and is dead set on getting a D, and I have to ask myself- really ask myself, WHY? Yes, we fought. What married, normal couple doesn't argue? <P>I agree 100% w/ what you said to andy. Divorce IS much harder than trying to work on your marriage. I don't think D is EVER the answer.<P>This is what I have learned. You can't really have a marriage w/ an absentee spouse, but, you can hold on to hope that one day they will see what they left behind and will want to work it out.<P>Since you don't want the D- do ask for it!! Keep Plan B-ing him. Maybe you need to ask him to find a different location for his office. Stop making coffee. Stop doing ANYTHING for him. Make him realize what he is missing.<P>I don't know if this helps you or not- I do feel for you. If only there was a tool on the market to pull one's head of their a$$-LOL- We could make MILLIONS-LOL<P>Sending you prayers. Keep that candle burning. God IS listening.<P>Cheryl

Desiree,<P>I feel for you tonight... <P>Before anything else...<BR>just listen to your soul...<P>Your soul is a little deeper than your mind...<BR>your mind can clouded by chemicals... drinks.. words...<P>Your soul is a little deeper than your heart...<BR>your heart can be touched by good or bad... and can't tell which is which...<P>Your soul is not clouded by anything external... nor can it be poisoned by touches of the world...<P>Meditate a bit on the candles that have been lit... yes lit for you too! <P>Let me just leave you my ending that I give most of the newbies....<P>---------------------------------<BR>Where two or more are gathered...<BR>Here... we are being gathered by our souls...<P>Jim

Cheryl, <P>OK, you got my head out of the cloud on the tool thing! HAHAHAHAHAH!LOL!!!!!! <P>I think I could put together a list of "master craftsmen' - (this has Medic written all over it!!!!! - we could patent this tool and make ourselves a bazillion dollars. First thing I am going to do when I become a bazillionaire is outlaw CONFUSION! <P>Cheryl, Diana and Jim - Yikes, OK, you guys got my head out of the clouds. I see. I just keep trying to implement PlanB until I die or H turns around for a second look or H D's me and rides off into the sunset with OW on the back of his Harley - GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR - THAT p^sses me off!!! <P>Ok, let's try again. I have nothing to lose to keep PlanB'ing. It only gains me more time to work on ME. I can avoid dealing with H and his shenanigans by doing PlanB. I can give the OW full rein to meet all his needs if she can. If she does - the process will be settled and that will help me to move on. If she can't, maybe old Roll Me Away can pull another rabbit out of this torn and tattered hat. Is that it, guys?????<P>I have learned something from new_beginning, who is suspiciously absent from posting on my thread! Do your best thinking aloud on your own post!<P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Roll Me Away (edited December 02, 1999).]

Jim,<P>I have NOT had anything to drink tonight, either! <P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Is there a full moon or something. Everything on the board seems out of kilter. The divorce word is being thrown around left and right.<P>Just saw Andy is having problems. MAN!<P>Oh, and I'm putting the final touches on "That" tool! <P>------------------<BR>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P><BR>

RMA,<P>Keep in plan-b, remember Jon and Sue. He waited 2 years. I hope I can. Read Sues letter in the back of the book. <P>You may want to concider haveing him move his office. Let him not see you at all. You're a great ladie, he's got to know that.Keep your strength and courage. Like the others have said if he doesn't come back you'll be more prpared.<P>Listen to our ever vigilant wise man, NSR. He has a firm grip on these principles.<P>You'll get extra prayers tonight from here.<P>Bill

I wouldn't even <B>presume</B> to give you advice tonight, but wanted you to know that I'm here and reading...<P>At least the letter wasn't hateful, and you can be grateful for that!<P>Love and Hugs, Sheryl<P>------------------<BR>The good life is a process, not a state of being. It is a direction, not a destination.<BR>-Carl Rogers<BR>

Sheryl,<P>Oh you sly salmon-girl....I KNEW you were lurking!!!<P>Oh, go ahead and give me your slant on my own inability to see myself. This is what I keep telling you - you have a lot to offer yet can't see YOURSELF out of a paperbag! Human nature - NO ONE is any differnt in this respect!<P>So...I'm directly asking for your views......<P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Medic,<P>Got the blueprints ready yet??? I am definitely ready to be a bazillionaire! I KNEW you'd be just the one to fogure out how to turn a profit onthis tool! <P>Did you see my post to andy?? YIKES - he might disown me after that one...!<P>Bill,<P>Thanks for the support. Yes, our dear friend NSR is usually always right on - wise and sage and ready to knock us back in line with a ruler ....<P>NSR - you ARE a Catholic and those nuns always zapped us with a ruler at my Catholic schools - they wanted those lines PERFECTLY straight. NSR, you aren't REALLY a Nun, are you?????<P>I'm geting way out there folks...<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

RMA- Maybe I'm out of line here, just had a quick question. If he is so into loosing you why does it bother him when you don't kiss him? And why does he even mention you to MIL if he means for you to be out of the picture? Maybe I'm wrong but it sounds like he's confused, not you, your just tired of dealing with the reality of his confusion.<BR>I would follow NSR and say, give it until January. Give yourself the time to know what your doing and the why of it. Right now it sounds like your just too hurt and confused to make a good decision. Take the time to work things out-there must be something there to work out if he wants to kiss you and you don't. I understand the detachment thing, I've had several periods of it. It's like when you've gone beyond hurt and just need to NOT FEEL anything for the person your so upset with. God Bless!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<P><BR>

RMA- Maybe I'm out of line here, just had a quick question. If he is so into loosing you why does it bother him when you don't kiss him? And why does he even mention you to MIL if he means for you to be out of the picture? Maybe I'm wrong but it sounds like he's confused, not you, your just tired of dealing with the reality of his confusion.<BR>I would follow NSR and say, give it until January. Give yourself the time to know what your doing and the why of it. Right now it sounds like your just too hurt and confused to make a good decision. Take the time to work things out-there must be something there to work out if he wants to kiss you and you don't. I understand the detachment thing, I've had several periods of it. It's like when you've gone beyond hurt and just need to NOT FEEL anything for the person your so upset with. God Bless!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<P><BR>