A lot of you have made references to "what you are doing to his wife and kids" to various OWs, former OW's, etc. I just wanted to tell what I thought about the OM's wife and children.<P>First off, even though it sounds like a cliche, I never meant to hurt them. I never thought his W would ever find out. I never made plans to "take him away" from them. At the time, I honestly thought he and I were "helping" each other cope with our situations. He was unhappy in his marriage, I was unhappy in mine. With this shared dissastisfaction with our circumstances, we found some fleeting happiness with each other. <P>Second, he portrayed a woman who mistreated him. Like I've read many OWs say, I honestly thought, "well she doesn't appreciate him, and I do...." He told me she never said kind words to him, didn't want to do anything with him, didn't take interest in his career or his accomplishments. He told me that I DID. And so, again, I felt like I was helping him by caring for him.<P>Now, of course, I am able to see that this was probably a lot of b.s. His W was probably weary of trying with him just like I had grown weary of trying with my H. Sure, now I realize that she had a side of the story just like I did. But, at the time, thinking about that was not even in the realm of possibilities. I didn't even consider it. <P>For the life of me, I cannot understand why we get ourselves in such a state of mind that we cannot see these things when we should have been able to see them.<P><BR>********************************************<BR>EDITED VERSION OF THIS LAST PARAGRAPH:<BR>But, if this makes any sense, I think this could be said for all of us, betrayed and betrayers alike. How many of us WISH we could go back and see how unhappy our spouses may have been, or looked at the real root of our own unhappiness, seeking productive ways for change? How many of us wish we could go back now and LISTEN to our spouses cries for help, or communicated our own needs more efficiently? If only we all could see then what we see now.<P><BR>HOW'S THAT??? <P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.<p>[This message has been edited by new woman (edited August 26, 1999).]

Thank You NW. A big part of my frustration is what is she thinking. Why and how she can even want my H knowing that he does have a wife and kids at home who love them dearly. <P>I do regret 24 hrs a day that I wasn't there for my husband more. We all just get caught up in daily living and I think we take our lives for granted. This has been a big wake up call for me. No matter what the future holds for me I will forever tell the man in my life just how much he means to me. Be it my husband or someone else.<P>

New Woman<BR>I understand what you are saying. <BR>However in my case it was me crying for help. It was me that was neglected. I was sitting at home doing everything I could to get through to my H. To show my love for him. to get him to pay attention to his responsibilities. To be there for his children. I have a lot of witnesses to this fact. His friends and mine. My reward? He went out and had an affair with a very availiable bimbo in order to excape his responsibilities even more!!!!<BR>If anyone in this house was neglected it was me. If anyone in this house had reason to look elsewhere it was me. This bimbo was just way too available!!!!<BR>I know that every case is different. As far as the OW in my case is concerned there is only one thing that matters to her - what she needs right now. No one else exists. No one else matters.<BR>Sorry I'm so crabby this morning but from day one My H knew this woman couldn't give him 1/20th of what I gave him. She was just very easy and available. And she was a total escape from reality. And she didn't give a hoot about his family. We didn't even exist!

Hi NW,<BR> I appreciate what you are saying but I for one agree with wasstubborn .Like Wasstubborn I felt like I tried, tried and tried to reach him....he would sit on the couch(with Tv) and tune all of us out and then he spent more and more hours away at work...life with 4 kids is not always fun and his escape was the OW. I tried to include him in family things, tried to engage him in conversation ,tried to make him feel important and tried to be available...then after awhile thought to myself I can sit and be miserable or I can make the best of the situation (pick up the family slack, go out with my girlfriends etc.) .How can you meet someone's needs when they won't let you in?I have looked at myself honestly and don't know what in the world I could've done differently.It's easy to blame the betrayed for "not meeting the betrayers needs"....I've come to believe that it's not all that cut and dried with everyone. We are in recovery now and I feel we're back to square one....he is withdrawn, won't talk, won't seek help for depression .....what in the world am I supposed to do?Lu<BR>

I also tried and tried to reach my H in his depression. <P>new woman, you said that you thought his wife was mistreating him, but you didn't mention his kids. Did he suggest that they were mistreating him too? Did they in any way deserve this? My H's OW apparently did intend, and has successfully, taken him away from his family - he has been gone for 5 months now. She has kids too - how can she do this when she must have seen what divorce does to kids? How could she encourage, or even allow him, to leave and come stay with her knowing that he was not even going to tell his kids goodbye?

I actually felt sorry for the OW (for a nanosecond) when the truth came out how bad H had lied to her. She was LIVID to find that he had signed the lease on the house where i live ('the family home', he led me to believe), that no divorce papers had been filed, and that the child i'm carrying really IS H's, though he denied it up and down (she really blamed me for driving him to her over that-he was so distraught he thought i was messing around on him. WHATEVER!).<BR>I'm VERY SURE she thought she was doing him some good by being with him...the man could sell freezers to eskimos...

i think i could have made it thru the entire day without reading this post!! I also understand what you say, but have a very hard time accepting it at face value. I do hope and pray for you that you have changed your views to a more mature and well rounded thought process. <BR>My h states he was never the least bit unhappy in the marriage, he was just gone a lot. He has a problem with sexaul complusiveness, and the OWs made it all too easy for him. If they would have respected the fact that he was married, maybe this whole illness would have followed another course. But there was so little regard for the institute of marriage by both H and the OWs, that it made it easy for the affairs to happen. <BR>All of us are responsible for our choices and actions. While my H has taken responsibility for his part, the OWs have not, and likely never will.

NW-<BR>Thank you for your insight. I, for one, appreciate your acknowledgment that the OP could very well be getting a line of bs and the possibility that it is not all true is not considered. I was always the "enemy" to his OW's because they bought his line. If only they knew my side. If only, If only, If only.......

Sometimes they DON'T cry for help. My H never tells me if he's unhappy, if he wants me to do something, if he doesn't like something I does. Frankly, I don't think he's even aware of whether he's not getting what he needs or not.<P>I've just happened to GUESS that he's a bottomless pit for affection, and watching him run to OW for solace when I wasn't 1000% supportive when he was out of work told me a lot.<P>Yet, if you had asked him during that time, he would have said everything's great.<P>Sometimes I think they just don't know. OTOH, what about THEIR obligation to US? Their obligation to COMMUNICATE when something's bothering them instead of just finding someone else?

NW -<P>My situation and experiencs are completely different from yours. <P>I am happy that you and your H have been able to find each other again and restore and perhaps, improve your marriage. Whatever thinking process the two of you used to get to that goal has apparently worked for you and I thank God for that.<P>I believe that an affair comes down to one thing - escape!!!!!<P>There are thousands of reasons that anyone might want to "escape" from a marriage - the only acceptable one to me is physical abuse and even then it is escaped to a shelter or family or something.<P>Before you jump on me, let me explain!<P>In every circumstance, you have two people with two views on the situation in the marriage. There are reasons why each one act and think the way they do regarding their problems. What one might consider a problem - the other might not and vica-versa.<P>Getting down to the nitty-gritty of the why of each person's actions and words is the only thing that will solve the problems and open things up to improve the marriage. That is not an easy task!! It can be downright too hard or scary for some. So, a lot of people ignore it, live with it or run from it!<P>What is not realized is that these last three choices do not solve it!!! It will still be there.<P>People cannot escape their problems, even temporarily with such a thing as an affair - the reality of that is that they are creating more problems to heap on top of the ones they already have. <P>But the biggest NO-NO is that they are hurting other people!!!! People who had no say in this escape route that was chosen. <P>It's not OK to rationalize the infliction of pain on other people. People need to look a little further at the effect of their actions before they do them. <P>This is not a condemnation to anyone who has had an affair - it is, however, the truth of what has occurred. Each person has to look within themselves and at their SO and either work together and help each other to get rid of the problems or finish the current relationship and move on. <P>I understand when you say that you're mind was not right.<P>But, in my view, when two people meet and one or both or married or otherwise attached - boundaries go up!! It's automatic!! Then you wouldn't have gotten to the part of "helping each other" that kept the mind "foggy". <P>NW - I'm very surprised at you - that last paragraph was such a generalization!!! LOL!!<P>Hugs and take the good and leave the rest!!!<P>Sheba <BR>

You guys, I full well know we all have different circumstances. Wasstubborn and Lu, for what it's worth, my experience was very similar to yours. Remember, I am a betrayed, too. Neglected for years, I tried and tried to get my H to open up, to share his hopes and dreams with me, all to no avail. He flat out refused to change. Said he couldn't, and I had to accept him for who and how he was. I didn't accept this well, and my reward, he had an affair. As a matter of fact, the month before I met OM, I had written my H a letter telling him that I felt like I needed "help." He folded up the note and put filed it away in his drawer. He could just kill himself for doing that now, but we can't change the past. Had I not had my affair, he still would have had his. My affair had nothing to do with his. His had nothing to do with mine. We were two lost people, unable to connect to each other ------- until the crisis. Now we are connected like glue.<P>CL,<P>What exactly is it about this post that troubles you so? And what is it that you have trouble accepting? I guess I'm confused. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"I do hope and pray for you that you have changed your views to a more mature and well rounded thought process."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I hope you didn't mean this to sound as condescending as it does. Have you read any of my other posts? I really hope you haven't, and then I can understand better how you'd say something like this.<P>But, that said, yes, I've learned a lot through all this. Haven't we all?<P>Sheba,<P> <P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.<p>[This message has been edited by new woman (edited August 23, 1999).]

New Woman<BR>I'm sorry if I was angry earlier. I know that you are doing everything you can for your marriage.<BR>Your last paragraph hit a nerve. My H had everything handed to him on a silver platter. He had it too easy. To put it bluntly he was an A**ho**. But I kept giving and loving hoping I would get it back. He gave no cries for help. He was just busy playing for the first 18 years of our marriage. <BR>So my response was to the part about wishing I could go back to do for him. I did for him!!! The only thing I wish I could go back for is to kick both their respective butts before they slept together.<BR>I gave and gave to my H - he gave and gave to OW and she TOOK!!!!<BR>

Wasstubborn,<P>Girl, I HEAR YOU!! My H was a prime choice A-Hole if ever there was one. So, I fully understand where you're coming from on that. That's exactly what I feel. The only difference is, MAJOR DIFFERENCE, I reached my limit, my breaking point, and had an affair myself. You didn't, so I know that probably makes you even more pissed off. Had I not had my affair, I'd been in the same situation as a lot of you are and would be saying the exact same things.<P>It's weird how life works.<P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.

Oh, and one more thing "about the kids." Nellie, you asked, "did his kids deserve this?" You know, if only people thought into all of these things before they have affairs, there'd be no affairs!! His children weren't supposed to know. His wife was never supposed to know. (And incidentally, to my knowledge, she still DOESN'T know, btw.)<P>Please remember that my circumstances did not involve he and I trying to leave our families and be together. No way!! It wasn't that kind of thing. <P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.

Dazed and Confused,<P>Wait a minute, I think we're married to the same man! In all seriousness, I'm glad to see he's not the only clueless man out there. My H never tells me when he's unhappy. He doesn't know how to communicate negatives thoughts or feelings. Growing up in his household, everyone was to pretend that everything was perfect at all times. So, there's 35 years of behavior there that I'm trying to change. Not to mention the fact that he too, is a bottomless pit for affection. Something I never would have guessed, because he NEVER ASKED FOR IT!!! UGH!!! I guess they think we women are so superior, that we are also mind readers. <P><BR>new woman,<P>You too, could also be speaking about my H. I am 100% guilty of these things that this man told you. This was an enormous wake up call for me. My H is my best friend, but I was tired of living with a friend, I wanted a marriage. I just didn't think I wanted one with him, so I never tried. I have no excuses for not trying harder, but I did suffer from depression. And unfortunately, sought help almost a little too late. Now, we're closer than ever. Although I've had more feelings of both positive and negative in the past 6 months, than I have in the past 6 1/2 years of our relationship. At least those emotions ARE there. That's how I know we're going to be fine. If I had felt nothing when I found out about his affair, then that would have spelled big trouble. It hurt like hell, but often times you have to hit rock bottom before you can go up. <P>I can also totally empathize with your affair. Maybe if I had worked outside the home, I could have found myself in the same situation as both you and my H. Maybe that helps make it easier too. I'm sure it wasn't something that you went looking for. But, when those needs aren't being met, it can creep up on you without even seeing it. I was close to that with someone online, but luckily it never crossed any lines. It's hard to admit that, but it's reality. For some reason, these past two weeks or so, I have had so much more sympathy for my H. Maybe I'm finally acknowledging just how easy it is to seek that attention and affection outside of the marriage. I don't know what took me so long, but it has helped tremendously.<P>I can't go back and change things, but I can work hard on not repeating the same mistakes. That goes both ways. At least we BOTH have things we need to work on. There's nobody playing the "victim" here. Well, I tried for a long time , but have moved past it. Thanks for your insight. This betrayed spouse knows that those lines our H's give the OW are NOT all lies. Take care. <P>------------------<BR>The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart.<BR>Helen Keller

In my situation, my husband has a pattern of blaming everyone else for his troubles. He is outgrowing this, but it is taking time. He has a habit of whining to co-workers, family and our children. It really keeps him from moving on. An OW in this case would think exactly like you did, feeling sorry for the immature idiot....<P>Sorry, I guess I'm crabby too. <P>Well, I'm the wife, and have promised to be there for the long haul, and will reap the benefits of his new awareness. I will have the honest husband, who moves ahead - and loves his family. The OW has nothing but heartache and embarrassment. This is how I cope.

to the replies of having the husband who got too much given to him. Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! I, too, knew H was unhappy, and tried my best to find out what was troubling him, and the only answer I got from him, was that it was me. He would come home from being with her, wearing the clothes I washed and pressed , eat the dinner I prepared for him, and then fall asleep in front of the T.V. exhausted. The only difference from the rest of the stories about the OW, is she knew wxactly what was going on, as she spent most every weekend here with the both of us. She would witness his rudeness and tirades towards to me, and tell me that I didn't deserve that treatment, and that I should leave him. Little did I know, that when my back was turned, she would tell him what I had said about him, and that only added fuel to the fire. She has now gotten on with her life, got a new beau, etc. My H thinks everything is great, as I don't bring up the affair anymore. The only one who is at a standstill with their life, seems to be me. <P>------------------<BR><P><BR>

new woman,<P>You said that neither of you were planning on leaving your spouses. I think it is quite possible that my H was not planning on leaving initially either. He did a number of things that indicated he was planning on staying around, up until a month or two before he left. The day he told me he wanted a divorce, he said he had been feeling that way for weeks, maybe months. I don't know why it didn't dawn on me to ask why he was willing to throw away a relationship of 24 years on a way he had been feeling for such a short period of time - I guess I was too upset to think. Many of his complaints to me while he was home were related to my objecting to his long, unexplained absences. I don't know if he decided to leave because of the guilt, or because he was having too hard a time coming up with excuses that were acceptable to me, or because he got more emotionally involved than he had planned on. In any case, consistant with his conflict avoider personality, he took the easy route out and ran, ignoring the damage he was doing to his children.

new woman, I suppose your original statement, my reply, and your reply are all rather condescending are they not? You have mistakenly assumed that all spouses are unhappy, ergo affairs. You have also assumed that all spouses would like to change their previous behavior! Both falacies.<BR>I have read very little of what you have written-it is best that way. But this one hit a nerve with your assumptions that are incorrect for many of us.

cl,<P>The title of my thread: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What THIS OW thought about his wife<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>My second sentence: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"I just wanted to tell what I thought about the OM's wife and children."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think that speaks for itself. How you can say that I have assumed what ALL spouses think is ridiculous. I related what I thought, and nothing else. I've been told that I have helped many people on this forum by relating MY experiences, so I'm not going to let you dissuade or discredit my value here. My marriage is rebuilding and going very strong. I am here to help people understand. <P>Yes, if you're going to put words in my mouth and mix-up what I've said, it's best you don't read any of my posts, and I'll do the same with yours.<P><BR>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.<p>[This message has been edited by new woman (edited August 23, 1999).]