Hi Frank<BR>I am just fine and thank you for caring, it really lifts my spirit to be able to talk to such wonderful people.<P>Like you, my H needs affection and to be told how wonderful he is etc. Myself unlike your W would love to be given roses or any kind of flowers for that matter. My H thinks it would be better to give me some cash to go buy myself somthing nice for myself, but the trouble is he then proceeds to tell me what I should spend it on but he means well, he would just rather I spent it on myself and not on the kids or the house.<P>Dont get my wrong Frank, I love spending money who doesn't but I would really like to get the off bunch of flowers. He does buy them for me but only on rare occasions like Mothers day, but I think our problems are a lot more serious that a bunch of flowers could fix.<P>Frank can I ask you, at any point did you fall out of love with your wife to the extent that you had no interest in her cuddling you or kissing you or anything else for that matter? cos that's where I seem to be at, but when I think of it now, the other night when he gave me the compliment he gave me a great big hug and kiss (not a passionate one Frank, I think thats a long way off yet.<P>My problem is I am not very affectionate and never have been, well maybe in the early stages of Marriage I was but then it faded. I wonder is it somthing to do with my Dad? He was never affectionate and I never remember him hugging or kissing me ever, in fact my Mom told me that in the forty five years they have been married, he has never once told her that he loved her, and she is so affectionate I really feel so sad for her, but I wonder has his behaviour rubbed off on me or what?<P>As for compliments, if I told H how great he looked etc he would be thrilled with himself, but the problem is Frank I would only be saying it to keep him happy.<P>This boils down to an issue of resentment I have towards him which started long before the Affair but has increased in size since it. I dont like giving him compliments and I know that sound awful but thats how I feel and I wish it would go away.<P>I know I am totally mixed up at the moment Frank, and I'm sorry you had to be my sounding board, maybe its cos I was out last night at a pals suprise 40th birthday party and I didn't get home until 4.30am and when I am tired or have had a few drinks the night before I always feel a but down in the dumps (since the affair.<P>All the same it was a really nice compliment he gave me and I felt closer to him afterwards, well for a while anyway.<P>Talk to you soon my friend<P>Love and hugs<P>Gabrielle

Hi Lori<P>I wish I felt that H always loved me too but I'm not so sure, but he did say he did but not in the way that he should and yeah what does it really matter why he finished the affair, I just seem to dwell on it sometimes.<P>I think its cos maybe had I not found out it would still be going on.(its a trust issue)<P>Robert is sooooooooo right, he is so lucky that you have such staying power cos given those circumstances I dont know that I could do the same.<P>I will try harder at the compliments but I have to say I dont like giving them, sounds awful but its how I feel most of the time.<P>I am taking all your good advice and the hard part is going to be putting it into practice.<P>Do you really think we can fall in love with each other again after drifting so far apart? Mind you what a perfect example you and Robert are (There's hope for us yet)<P>Talk to you soon<P>Love and hugs<P>Gabrielle <P>ps how do you put smilies through your post?

Ok, for the most important question.....look to the left of the reply box - see "Smilies Legend"? That'll give you the "codes"!!! <P> [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]<P>OK, now for the other stuff. It's not easy, Honey. None of this is easy. It's hard work, it requires tons of self-examination and dedication and committment. But it's the RIGHT thing to do and worth it more than you can imagine. How did I know Robert loved me? Because he did once. And I learned that love can get buried. Look, your h stayed home. For whatever reason. And ended the affair. Robert LEFT to live with and planned to marry someone else. PT taught her 3-year old to call him "Daddy". He came about as close as you can get to completely breaking off contact with us. Now, darlin', THAT'S a hurdle!!! <P>So I learned about Plan A. First lesson. I learned to believe in myself (all the time doing the "no lovebusters, keep it safe routine when I would see him). THEN, I learned to believe in my marriage and what COULD be - not what I was stuck with at the moment. So much of this comes from inside you, Honey. That's where the changes have to start, that's what makes them real. You've been talking to Frank. He's a dear, dear friend. Listen to him. He's also a VERY different person than the one I met so many months ago - we all are. Most of us are better. (Luv ya, Frank!!)<P>Sometimes you just have to put things in a box, Gabrielle. Stop focusing on what WAS for a while and focus on what you want to happen. Reach inside yourself for all that you are. I've heard on this board a million times that this is like a farmer planting a field. It seems forever that he's toiling in the fields, planting, working, fertilizing, tending and getting NOTHING! But he will, ya know? He will. The harvest is worth the work.<P>Our marriages are the same. But it all starts inside. I get so discouraged when I read posts that wayward spouses should "make it up" to the betrayed. It can't be done and it's wrong to want someone to "pay" for a bad judgement forever. The only way to ease the pain is by building a wonderful relationship....and that takes two - working together. But many many times starts with just one....the one who's been hurt.<P>Hang in there, Hon. You CAN DO THIS!!! It's worth it, I promise. You have an opportunity that sooooo many people here would love to have. Hang on to it. Work with it. Cherish it and appreciate it and give it all you've got! Grow inside as a person, be good to yourself and you'll find you're being good to your spouse.<P>Love and hugs,<P>Lori

That was one hell of a hurdle you got through Lori, I hope we can do the same.<P>I have noticed in the last two weeks, the anger and resentment in me has subsided a bit so, I'm hoping it goes on cos when all the anger and resentment is there it is hard to focus on putting any units into his bank.<P>I think my resentment started about 9yrs ago, cos up to then my H always told me I was his best friend, back then we did a lot of things together and spent a lot of time together. <P>Then he was offered the job in the Night club, we talked about him taking this position and I was ok about it cos it was only 2 nights per week-end and we needed the extra cash. A couple of years later a new club opened in town and he was offered the position of Head of security, with extra cash, but the problem with this was, it would mean working four nights per week thurs to sun. again I said ok cos I knew he really wanted to do this and now I was used to being at home at night by myself.<P>Then the resentment started, he made all these new friends and I felt shut out.(I wasn't his best friend any more). All he ever seemed to talk about was the lads this and the Nightclub that and the Nightclub was and is now his life.<P>Since the Affair he has cut down to 3 nights per week, he cannot cut down any more cos we need the cash for the car, holidays etc. We go out now 1 night per week whatever night I want him to take off, but we have grown apart and what interests him (usually the club) doesn't interest me, probably cos he met her there. Its as if we have nothing in common any more, dont get me wrong, when he goes on and on about the club I listen to him but its hard.<P>I went back to college 3 years ago and last year got myself a new job which has helped with my self-esteem. I have lots of new friends and we go out now and then for a night out, like the other night, one of the girls was celebrating her 40th birthday, do I am starting to live my own life now, whereas before I just stayed at home all the time but not any more.<P>The counsellor asked him if he was prepared to give up working in the NC and he got really angry, he felt he was being backed into a corner and he really resented it. I dont think he would be happy if he did and anyway I dont have a problem with it now, I'v gotten used to it. <P>What I do have a problem with is that bxxxx fatal attraction is still going to the club. He did stop her from going for the first 4 months after the A but he had no real reason to keep her out and she told him so and she said she would go to management if she didn't get back in cos why should she miss out going out to the club with her friends when he was getting on with him life.<P>So he had no choice.<P>Anyway, hope this gives you some insight into why some of the resentment is there.<P>love and hugs <P>Gabrielle <p>[This message has been edited by gabriellec (edited April 30, 2000).]

gabriellec, <P>I care for you because your a great Person and I have experenced what you're going through. <BR><B> YOU SAID:<P>Like you, my H needs affection and to be told how wonderful he is etc. Myself unlike your W would love to be given roses or any kind of flowers for that matter. My H thinks it would be better to give me some cash to go buy myself somthing nice for myself, but the trouble is he then proceeds to tell me what I should spend it on but he means well, he would just rather I spent it on myself and not on the kids or the house" <B/><P> OK NOW we're getting there!!! See, you're H has NO idea WHAT you need to FEEL loved!! TEACH HIM!<BR><B> YOU ASKED:<P> Frank can I ask you, at any point did you fall out of love with your wife to the extent that you had no interest in her cuddling you or kissing you or anything else for that matter? cos that's where I seem to be at, but when I think of it now, the other night when he gave me the compliment he gave me a great big hug and kiss (not a passionate one Frank, I think thats a long way off yet" <B/><P> OK!!!! Go back and read about "Withdrawing" in a Marriage.<BR> To answer your question, YES YES YES, we slept in seperate bedrooms for over a year!! Not EVERY NIGHT, just MOST and of course we slept together when we were intimate and for a couple of nights after (I'm sure OM had a BALL shooting holes in THIS!!)<P> Just to put this NIGHTMARE into perspective for you. We "THOUGHT" did this because I worked on the computer late (even now ) and I would keep her awake. SHE HATES the sound of Computer keys now!!! REALLY HATES IT!!!!<P> But in reality we were "Withdrawing" from each other and didn't even know it!!!!<BR> Here's what I think happens:<BR> People by nature are pretty selfish. Wheither on the surface, or inside somewhere.<P> So, I want/EXPECT a hug, I don't get it. I STILL fix the lightbulb and vacum, and then I STILL don't get the hug.<BR> SOOO I pout (again, wheither INSIDE or OUTSIDE) and now when my W tries to hug me (Her version of fixing a lightbulb) MaybeI'm pouting too much to except it. SOOO, SHE pouts and we just end up backing off a little or "withdrawing" A LITTLE more.<P> This goes on and happens so gradually, that you don't even notice it!! <BR> <BR> Did I ever feel I fell out of love with my W? I'm not sure I REALLY fell out of love, but it sure felt that way ONLY, I could NEVER (even at ehe worse times) imagine us apart forever. We BOTH felt that would NEVER happen and that a seperation would help.<BR> A DUM de DUM DUM idea huh???<P> <B> YOU SAID:<BR> This boils down to an issue of resentment I have towards him which started long before the Affair but has increased in size since it. I dont like giving him compliments and I know that sound awful but thats how I feel and I wish it would go away. SEE POUTING!!!!<P>AND....<BR>"All the same it was a really nice compliment he gave me and I felt closer to him afterwards, well for a while anyway" <B/><P> SEE, that's how it works!! GRADUALLY, you will feel a litte better everytime he shows you love the way YOU, need to FEEL it! That's the "LOve Bank" thing!! AND at LEAST when he does this, give it back the way HE needs to FEEL it and I think THAT'S how we can reverse this mess, by actually going backwards a couple of Baby Steps at a time.<BR> <BR> Hang in there and SOUND of me all you want!!<P> GOOD LUCK & PRAYERS FRANK<P>P.S. Thanks to you TOO Lori!! I (of course ) Love you too. I consider you one of the most important and dearest people God EVER put in my life. I'm SURE, someday, we will ALL find out..... you were really just an angel!! <P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P><p>[This message has been edited by PLEASE HELP (edited April 30, 2000).]

Hi Gabrielle, I've been out of town for a few weeks and just read your post. I feel just like you do. I don't know why I should continue to stay with him. Perhaps it is pride. But how does a woman maintain her dignity when she lives with a man who treated her like garbage. I also caught my husband and he immediately stopped the affair (or so he says--how does one believe again). I am constantly wondering if he would still be seeing her if I hadn't caught him. Though I must admit I would have caught him. He changed too much. I noticed something right away. I also can't help but feel why should I be working hard to keep this marriage (which I don't know that I even want now) when he made all the errors. I can't ever take any blame for his choosing to cheat. As I've written before, I thought my marriage was fine!! If he didn't, he should have come to me, not another woman. I'm not very helpful but I do feel better knowing someone else has some of my feelings.

I see that I am not the only one struggling with how to forgive. I know that my husband is very sorry for what he did. But after 14 yrs of marriage? The deception and lying that went on during his affair with my best friend is really bothering me. I am still so hurt and angry. I have been diagnosed with depression and placed on an antidepressant. I am confused on what to do. I do not know that I can ever forgive.

PLEASE HELP <P>Thanks for your kind words, they mean a lot to me.<P>This withdrawing happened to us as well, Frank. We had been sleeping in seperate bedrooms four nights of the week for the past six years, cos he was working in the NC on these nights and didn't want to disturb me when he was getting in so late 4am.<P>In hindsight, I gave him the perfect opportunity to have this affair cos I was aleep most of these nights and didn't have a clue what time he was in at. <P>This in itself was withdrawing from each other on a massive scale. I ask myself "why did you let this happen" and I cannot explain why I was okay with this, we just drifted apart I guess!<P>Even now, he sleeps in the spare room if he has an early start, cos he's up before us in the AM, at around 6am and with me and the kids it not until 8am. I think I am gonna have to sort something out here!!!!!Sometimes he will ask me "where do you want me to sleep tonight cos I'm up at 6am".<P>I am glad I started posting here cos a few weeks ago I was seriously contemplating seperating from him. I was thinking to myself "maybe if he goes for a while, we will find we miss each other and then maybe things will get better". sound dumb to you Frank? <P>I gave him a compliment today (horay!!!) well if you could call this a compliment. "I really missed you yesterday". he was working a 24hr shift. and his reply was "Jesus, I cannot believe you just said that".<P>I will try a few more of these and see how I get on.<P>I will keep you posted.<BR>Love and hugs<BR>Gabrielle<P>[This message has been edited by gabriellec (edited April 30, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by gabriellec (edited April 30, 2000).]

<P>And I'll bet behind the shock, he was grinning inside!!!<P>I'm glad you found us, too, Gabrielle. Your marriage - the one you're BUILDING - is definitely worth it!!<P>Keep up the good work, Sweetie. Oh, and btw, I've found out that some of the most special times that Robert and I have now happen early in the morning. I get up and have breakfast with him and we talk and start our day that way - even though I don't have to be up so early (5 am). It's not a burden. I wouldn't give it up for the WORLD now that I've found it! HE'S even getting up a bit earlier so the mornings aren't rushed and we have a bit more time!!!!<P>I'd say, a good step, if you don't mind it, is to definitely sleep in the same bed, even when he has to get up earlier...no better way to get close. And, if it's not a problem for you, maybe try doing what we do now. I won't give it up again, I can tell you that!!!<P>Keep working, some days it's not all that hard, is it? Trying to understand and grow. Soon it'll take a life of it's own and you'll be amazed at how you feel.<P>BTW, just to deflect a couple of comments. There's a great deal of dignity in recognizing our own errors, standing by our committments and our loved ones through anything and working toward the future together. It takes much more strength, much more integrity, much more dedication than just chucking it all. We'd never turn our backs on our children - no matter what, we are committed to them. Our spouses are not much different. In my personal experience, I have never had more respect for myself or my husband than I do right now for all the courage it took to get where we are. So many other roads would've been so much easier for such a long time.<P>And Robert. He's proud of me. He says he's absolutely in awe sometimes. He didn't lose respect for me - I was never a doormat. I was a committed and loving woman who never stopped believing in myself, him or our marriage. Not perfect by a long shot! But I never stopped believing. (ok, except for a moment here and there ) And he thanks me almost every single day. Know what? At the beginning of our relationship, I felt very, very loved. Now, I feel it too. But I feel cherished. I didn't even know what that was like before. I feel strong and good inside. More than I ever have in my adult life. Even with the little "recovery bumps".<P>Hang in there, Gabrielle. You're heading in the right direction!!<P>Love and hugs,<P>Lori

HI SUMMERTIME <P>I know exactly how you feel. i felt and still do on occasions all the anger,resentment etc.<P>We spent 9 months at counselling after the discovery of the affair and all of that time I still blamed him totally Cos I couldn't see what I had dont wrong to make him have an affair. <P>But now, one year after the affair, I can see things a little bit more clearly. Our mariage was on a downward slope for the past six years before my very eyes and i was going along with the flow pretending everything was ok.<P>We just drifted apart, I went my way and he went his and as Lostva says (read post from her) "What does it matter when the Affair was over, The point is, he is with you cos he wants to be with you not cos he has no choice cos he has". Believe me he has the choice.<P>You have to try and stop thinking negatively, it will only drag you down believe me for the past year it has been pure hell, my mind working overtime, thinking what he did with her etc and it just wears you out until you are completely drained.<P>You have to sort through your emotions and feelings and decide what it is you want. I know how hard this is cos if you are anything like me you are totally confused. Will i stay? Will I go? What about the kids? Its gonna be a long road and not an easy one.<P>can I ask, How long did the affair last? and When did you discover it? Have you posted your story anywhere that I could read it?<P>I am not of much help cos I'm only starting to feel normal again and need lots of help too. But there are a lot of people on this forum who are more than willing to help you. Take all the help you can get.<P>Did you or your H ever go to counselling?<P>take care <P>big hug to you<BR>I am thinking of you<BR>gabrielle <p>[This message has been edited by gabriellec (edited April 30, 2000).]

HI CERYCONFUSED<P>I am really so sorry this has happened to you. We are all struggling with the same awful thing, I can understand your pain especially when your best friend was involved makes it even harder.<P>If anti depressants get you thaough this then so be it. My crux and still is cigarettes, I was off them for sixteen months when I found out and have been smoking like a chimney ever since <P>If you would like to talk some more, feel free to e mail me at gabriellec@eircom.net<P>Maybe we could be of help to each other?<P>Love and hugs<BR>gabrielle

HI Gabrielle, <P> You said:<P>"This in itself was withdrawing from each other on a massive scale. I ask myself "why did you let this happen" and I cannot explain why I was okay with this, we just drifted apart I guess"<BR> YES, I know. It totally amazes me that we did this. MOST of our Marriage, my W fell asleep with her head on my chest with me stroking her hair. When she was asleep, I would roll over and she would put her face in a spot on my back that she said, "God made JUST for her" because her face fit perfectly. I miss that soooo much now, and to think all the times I COULD have had it and didn't really kills me now!! Sometimes I think I'll never have it again.<P> LORI SAID:<BR> "I'd say, a good step, if you don't mind it, is to definitely sleep in the same bed, even when he has to get up earlier...no better way to get close"<P> This is EXECELENT advice. Think about it!Based on what I just said, I would sleep on a bed of GLASS to sleep next to my W now!!!Don't miss this time with him!! AND LORI also suggested that you get up early to spend some time at the start of the day. When I think of all the sleep I LOST over this, I wish I had done this too!! What's a couple of extra hours of sleep?? Your H may really like it!! Get up take a shower together, make him breakfast, eat together and who knows, if you get up EARLY enough..... <P> YOU SAID:<BR> "I gave him a compliment today (horay!!!) well if you could call this a compliment. "I really missed you yesterday". he was working a 24hr shift. and his reply was "Jesus, I cannot believe you just said that"<P> AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME!! That's the way!! It seemed like a little thing to you but see how important it was to him!! That little thing will bear fruit that you won't beleive in the future as HE will go out of his way to make YOU feel loved!! SHOW/TELL him how!!<BR> <BR> You guys will be fine! You're doing GREAT!! Stay with it!!<BR> GOOD LUCK & PRAYERS FRANK<BR> <P><BR>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P><p>[This message has been edited by PLEASE HELP (edited April 30, 2000).]

Gabrielle, thanks for responding. I haven't posted anywhere. It is so painful rehashing. I feel my husband cheated on my six months but he would say three months. She is a stripper he met in a club. He visited her in the club for five months and saw her outside the club for one month. I was away that month. When we got together again, I realized immediately something had happened. I found him on the phone with her. I told him that night--her or me--without hesitation he chose me and called her in front of me to tell her it was over. We went to a counselor the next week and together or separately we have been seeing her for seven months. It is helping him tremendously but not me. He is very remorseful and sick over the whole thing. But I still don't think he is being punished enough. He told our grown up children but we haven't told any of our friends. I die inside a little more every day. Perhaps in a year I can blame myself a little but I don't think anything I could have done would justify his cheating. <P>I appreciate someone's comments on dignity, but I know in my heart I would tell my daughter to leave a cheating husband. Perhaps eventually I can find some dignity in staying (if I do). <P>Glad I found this board to vent on, but wish I could help someone. Perhaps someday.

Gabriellec, I've been away a bit, but it's good to see you are hearing from so many good people. I've been to Dublin twice with my family, my h was on business. Lovely country!<P>Lostva, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think we're often aware on this board that even when our comments are addressed to one person, there are many who benefit. But I wanted to thank-you for sharing your insight.<P>I had been thinking the same thing about the other vows that I had not kept - to love and cherish - and I'm beginning to see it more from his perspective.<P>As I read what you wrote, I started thinking I am still far too focused on whether he loves me and is doing the right things than on whether I am truly loving him.<P>He's a bit clueless to what says "I love you" to me. Like Frank said, he will do things for me when what I really want is a heartfelt compliment or to have him just say the words. (I've been telling him lately, but I've also started noticing more the things he does and thanking him).<P>But I'm guilty of that too. I tell him how handsome he is, that I love him, when I think it would mean more to him if I picked up his dry cleaning or did some extra things for him.

Hi Frank <P>This day was not a great one for me, well not the latter half. I am feeling a bit down in the dumps. We spent a lovely afternoon in the garden together (a fabulous day here which is a rarity), As I said in an earlier pst, we were talking about seperating only a few weeks ago and in conversation, he told me that one of his so called friends had offered him a room in his new house,(this guy is seperated himself about six months, because of his work in the security business, And cos of fooling around with other women).<P>well, this afternoon I asked him where this man had bought the house and my H told me "It is no concern of yours" as you can imagine I felt really angry and hurt, Why was he talking like this to me? So I told him that his attitude really irked me and his response was, "why do you want to know where he is buying the house, I am not leaving at the moment so why do you want to know". my answer was "(i dont know why all the secrecy is needed cos if we did seperate I would have to know where you were living anyway cos of the kids". His answer was "You could contact me my mobile couldn't you". AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Frank, at this moment I hate the son SOB cos he is conducting things in secrecy again, and I cannot put up with this.<P>I hate all the SOB's that work with him cos most of them knew what was going on and covered up for him. I feel so angry, I could screammmmmmmmmmmmm <P>I have to go now Frank,<P>Talk to you sooon my friend<P>Love Gabrielle<p>[This message has been edited by gabriellec (edited May 01, 2000).]

Schizzo<P>Thanks for your pst.<P>Our Country is lovely, but I live about 30 miles from Dublin, which is not that far at all.<P>I too, am focusing on weither he loves me or not, but In my case, I am not so sure I can love him back cos of all that has happened.<P>When I say love, I mean in the sense, can i spend the rest of my life with him knowing what he has done with her.AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH<P>I honestly do not know if I can get through this, but I will give it my best shot, and after that If it doesn't work out, then at least I know I have tried my best and who can ask for more that that?<P>Take care<P>love<P>gabrielle

SUMMERTIME<P>hello, Dont feel bad about feeling so angry, I know exactly how you feel and you are perfectly right to feeeel this way.<P>Today was a bad day for me in so far as, I am rahashing it all in my mind, also you have every right to feel angerrrrrr <P>Your so called H just like mine, destroyed your integrity and your self esteem and dignity. But just maybe, by venting here we will be able to get over this and become stronger people, and help us decide weither we want to go on or not.<P>I still feel extreme anger towards him and dont know weither I will stay or not, but at least I know if I try, I can say to myself I tried but it didn't work out. No one will blame you for that, thats why I suggest counselling for yourself, only maybe then , you may be in the right frame of mind to be able to to see clearer and come to your own decisions. (thats what In am hoping for myself, I have booked individual sessions just for me).<P>Take care<P>Love and hugs<P>Gabrielle <p>[This message has been edited by gabriellec (edited May 01, 2000).]

HI Gabrielle,<BR> OK, welcome to the "Roller Coaster"!! <P> For SOME reason (and I may be reaching here) I feel he thought YOU may have been thinking YOU still want to seperate, hence, he got defensive and secretive. I can't tell you WHY I feel this, I just do.<P> One of the VERY UNFAIR things we "betrayed" are expected to do is BE STRONG and CONSISTANT in our belief that the Marriage, will be BETTER.<P> I know, I know FOUL, NO FAIR, NO WAY!! It ISN'T fair because WE were the ones that were made the MOST insecure by this mess while THEY seem to gain "Strength" from it and act so " DAM Sure of themselves. They're NOT! <P> And it's OUR SPOUSES that should be reasuring US that things will work out. They can't. They are not strong enough. <P> It's part of the "FOG". In reality, THEY are the ones who are weak right now because it was THEM that fell for the temptation. AND, it is THEM that feel the GUILT and UNCERTAINTY (sp?) over what they have done. It's pretty buried, but it's there. <P> It's like that little nagging feeling you get when you're leaving the house and are trying to figure out if you have everything. You get in the car and drive two blocks and say "OH SH**!!" I forgot the ....<BR> Well, they have this "Little Feeling" that they can't figure out, but it's there. I believe, when WE send mixed messages, it's THEM that get insecure (WAY DOWN) and that's when they don't believe it can be fixed. And maybe cling to OP harder because they see that as a relationship that THEY haven't messed-up YET.<P> AND then there are the tests. OH MAN, I HATE the tests!! I don't think they do it up front in the mind, but way down deep. It's there way of "Being sure" they are forgiven. Because, believe it or not, they think they could NEVER forgive us for the same. BUT, they may have never been through it and unless you have, (as you've now found out) it seems an impossible thing to to ever THINK of forgiving!!! I NEVER would have dreamed I COULD!! But as we know NOW because of this DAM GROWTH and inner searching we end up going through, WE had a lot to do with it!!<BR> Anyway, sorry for getting long winded Gabrielle, it's just that we have to keep the questions to a minimum and FOCUS on the prize!! A BETTER Marriage than we ever DREAMED OF!! <P> BELIEVE IT, FOCUS ON IT and FORGET those kind of questions that LEAN towards the possibility that you WILL seperate, that you WILL divorce, that your H will ride off into the sunset with the OW and live happily ever after.<BR> IT DOESN'T HAPPEN 97% OF THE TIME! YES 97% OF THE TIME!!! <BR> (And we ALL feel WE ARE part of the lucky<BR> 3% a LOT of the time so don't worry OK!!) <BR> BUT, the road is narrow and full of obsticals, however, we have GOD and each other here on MB to help get us to the other side. GOOD LUCK & PRAYERS FRANK<P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P>

PLEASE HELP<BR>Hi Frank<P>I think you are soooo right Frank, he gets really defensive when I mention anything regarding Affair or seperation, probably cos he doesn't know where he stands. well neither do I at times. Confusion, confusion, confusion.<P>When I ask him a question regarding any of this, he goes real quiet and says nothing for a couple of minutes (which really annoys me)he is probably running it all over in his head and trying to come up with an answer!!!!<P>YES! YES! YES! he seems so sure of himself, soooooo confidant and full of self esteem and sooooooooo sure of himself all of the time and I cannot understand it? how can he be so self assured after all that has happened or maybe cos he was with someone half his age she has boosted his ego so much.<P>My H told me one night a while back, I dont think you will ever be able to forgive me, cos I know how soft hearted you are and I know how much I have hurt you (If he was so sure of all this, why did he do it).<P>We all need God to help us thru this mess and I have nt been able to connect with him yet, but I have been making a bit more of an effort of late to go to Church etc. I know I cannot do this on my own Frank, but my H who used to go to Church more that I did, will not go at all now.<P>Take care my friend<P>Love<P>Gabrielle

My DEAR Friend Gabrielle,<BR> RUN....... TO....... CHURCH......, H will not go right now because he's afraid the floor will swallow him alive!! <BR> YOU, need to set an example now. And I can only speak for myself, THERE IS NOW WAY I GET THROUGH THIS WITHOUT GOD, NO...WAY!!<BR> Not to in ANYWAY discount the incredible help I received from Lostva (#1 reason I never did jump off a bridge!! ), and Sheba and NB and Chris and Medic and ALL THE OTHERS!! But without GOD I JUMP!!<BR> I find going to church, as opposed to just praying better for me because I get to talk to some REAL kind, loving people (Like here) BUT the hugs are REAL!!<BR> The first Sunday I went back, I cried all the way there. I almost didn't go in. I rode around and did finally and I'm so glad I did. <BR> MY BELIEF ONLY DISCLAIMER..........<BR>I believe that if GOD isn't working in my life than the DEVIL is!!<BR> Oddly enough, ALMOST to the day that the affair REALLY heated up, we had stopped going!! Coincidence, maybe, but I DON'T want to find out for SURE so I'M GOING!!!<BR> I want GOD on my side in EVERYTHING!!<BR> GOOD LUCK & PRAYERS FRANK<BR>P.S. I also get a lot out of the fact that I know some people there (Like the Kids) REALLY REALLY get something out of me being there. I NEED to feel needed a LOT lately!!!