<BR>Jill,<P>Lemme see. You've heard people telling you to confess, and you've heard people telling you not to confess. So far, you've chosen the "not confess" path, but what has it purchased you? A marriage that's being killed by slow poison in a perverse intimacy standoff?<P>Holding aside for a moment whether I think you should tell him (and I do think you should tell him), part of the agreement you made with yourself was to the carry the burden of your affair. I fail to see how scorekeeping intimacy carries that burden anywhere. Sure, his offer to trade sex for a health club membership is crass, but beneath it he's crying out for an emotional connection with you (if you doubt me, give him mercy f**ks for awhile and see how angry and/or disgusted he becomes). I agree with 2sad4words here: He doesn't know how close to the cliff things have become. In my eyes, you need to go first here. Why would you even entertain the thought of "winning" the standoff by losing your marriage?<P>Bystander<BR>

Jill,<P>I'm not telling you what to do. I respect the decision you have made. Let me just tell you what happened to me, very briefly. <P>Confessing to my H unleashed my desire.<P>The leash is back on again due to other bumps in the road to recovery, but the truth really does set you free.

Jill,<P>I can understand your frustration when you come here for *new* advice and get the same *old* advice. From what you have written, your situation has not appreciably changed since the first time you posted, so same situation = same advice. (Please forgive me if I am wrong about this) <P>I see you as an intelligent person who is used to digging and researching for answers, which is probably partly what led you here. Like most intelligent people, it also seems that you enjoy debate and discourse on the "idea and theoretical" level, after which you may or may not choose to put the ideas into practice in your own life. <P>There may be a few counseling professionals lurking here on the board, but most of us are just "average joes and janes" whose lives have been turned upside down by marital problems. We all tend to filter our viewpoints and advice through our own personal situations. Therefore, the people who have decided to handle recovery in the same way you have, support your position. Others may not support your decision because of their situations and experiences, but do support you and are sorry for the pain you and your husband are going through.<P>Don't run away from the MB boards! It will take you a while to sort your situation out, and the people here will always celebrate the good times with you as well as support you through the bad times.<P>All that being said, here is my take on your question - filtered throught what is left of my teeny brain. I have found that the one thing that really kills desire is anger, usually anger that you are afraid to express for some reason. From your description, there is a lot of anger operating with y'all right now. Several people have responded that someone is going to have to break the stalemate, which seems like good advice.<P>Ok, (deep breath) I have one question to ask in the kindest way possible. Please don't take offense - just think of it as theoretical and not personal. You replied to 2sad:<P><<Also, for seven years, I've begged my husband to seek counseling with me, and he won't come. For seven years, I've written him letters to tell him what's going on with me, and he never even acknowledges that he's read the letters. I've sat at his feet and looked him in the eyes and calmly told him what it is that I need from him in our marriage, but nothing has ever changed. I've told him over and over how close he is to the "cliff", but he doesn't listen or seem to care.>><P>It sounds like you are really dissatisfied with things the way they are and have been for a while. Why keep on doing the same things the same way and being surprised at getting the same results? Kind of like, "I am living with a wasp." "Why in the heck does he keep stinging me?!" As someone else said, maybe your H *needs* to fall screaming over the cliff and land on the rocks below. At least it would be a change of some sort. I had a lot of horrible feelings as a result of my H's affair. The one heady, exciting positive feeling I got was that things were changing!! It was sometimes as scary as h#ll, but at least it wasn't boring. The only times I get really afraid now (in recovery) are when I feel we are sliding back to the pit of "how it used to be".<P>I hope you don't perceive me as being "full of hate" or non-supportive of you. I always enjoy reading your threads and thinking about the issues that are brought up in them. Keep working at it, Jill and find the best solution for you. <BR>

Glad you are feeling stronger today!!!<P>Hang in there---<P>Kathi

Two things (And it may need discussion)<P>1. I would gladly give up sex to have my wife "but I LONG for him emotionally. "<P>2. I'm not so sure about waiting to tell about affair - a big secret like that doesn't get smaller with time. If you wait a while your husband will react like this: You waited this long to tell me! What else have you been keeping from me? What else has been a lie/decietful in our lives? You might want to weigh this against what your reasons are for not telling him.

Hi Jill,<BR> I know I've posted to you before that I am not big on the "confess" idea,especially when you have processed this to death.What I am about to suggest might seem extreme and dangerous for your marriage to some, but it may give your husband the wake up call he needs without your having to devistate him with a confession. How about a temporary separation? It doesn't even have to be a legal separation,just a time apart.<P>My H and I separated after I discovered his affair at his insistance. I did not feel threatened by the separation at all.I was able to recognize that he needed to do that to come to terms with everything in himself and to know he was doing the right thing for himself in coming back home and committing to us forever.To forbid him from leaving would have been another "nail in the coffin"Our separation helped us immensely.<P>I am not saying that you need to separate for the reasons H and I did. However,I think that it could really stir him to reevaluate HIS part(lack of GIVING) in a very dysfunctional situation.It would also give you some relief from the pressure of having to try to get this relationship fixed, for right now.He does need to do his part.The stalemate you have come to will destroy your marriage sooner or later if it remains unchanged.From what I see, your desire is to have your H really look at your at your relationship so that he can "see" and act on all your previous attempts to wake him up to your discontentment.What will he think of a separation.....exactly that, he will have to "think" about it and what has caused things to get to that point.It also allows him to think just about the relationship without all the added negative emotions he would have if you disclosed your affair.If you see that even a separation does not cause him to reevaluate things, that too will be very telling for you.<P>A separation does not have to be a nasty thing.H and I dated while we were apart,and he wanted to spend his weekends here with the kids.The dating was wonderful,it helped to reignite that spark we had lost.It also made us BOTH realize all things we had taken for granted about each other.See, you have realized how you have taken him for granted,but he hasn't had that opportunity. Others are suggesting that by revealing your affair you give him that opportunity. I am suggesting, there just might be another alternative that produces the same results and allows you to stop cultivating negative feelings about your daily interactions or lack there of. As always JMHO. Good luck Jill and keep trusting in the Lord, for there in lies your answer.<p>[This message has been edited by mthrrhbard (edited May 11, 2000).]

mthrrhbard - Yes... Excellent idea! <B>This is brilliant!!!</B><P>Jill's H gets the sobering effect of a wake up call without Jill having to risk confessing the affair. It is simply an acknowledgement of the grave condition of the relationship itself - why bring up the affair?.<P><dope slap!> Why didn't I think of that?! <P>As the saying goes, "if you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got".<P>Jill - what do you think? <P>------------------<BR>But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.<BR>Galatians 5:22-23

Jill: It's me "Sobeit" who's talking to you. Remember I too, will not tell my spouse and I will stick by that decision. If other's prefer to tell their spouses, then that is THEIR decision. I don't blast anyone for whatever decision they make. Partly because I refuse to throw stones and partly because I don't know what I would do given the same circumstance. You have been there for me and I want to be here for you. You are definitely going through some type of withdrawal and yes it will take time to heal. I do agree with the sex as a way to connect with you. I remember when my spouse and I were going through our rough times, he wanted as much sex with me just to be close to me. He did not know of any other way to be close to me especially while I was being a B****. There are times when I don't want to be touched and I pray for God to give the strength to make it through this. <BR>To add more fuel to the fire, rub salt in the wound or hurt the person more just to relieve our conscience is not really a benefit for everybody. Some folks may be lucky enough to have spouses or SO(s) that are forgiving. Not everybody. <P>To those folks out there who are getting on Jill's case for not telling, REMEMBER, one size does not fit all! She needs our support not the guilt trip. <P>Jill, I am praying for you and I'll back you up 100%. I think Lostva alluded to that as well. So you see we're here for you. Only you will know when the time is right to get close to your spouse with all your heart and let what's in the past stay there. The matter will be handled between the higher power and us when the time comes. Until then, let's move on. I am sending you lots of hugs and pinching your facial cheeks and telling you that you are special and don't you forget that!

Jill, <BR>Sobeit said:<BR>"Some folks may be lucky enough to have spouses or SO(s) that are forgiving. Not<BR>everybody. <P>To those folks out there who are getting on Jill's case for not telling, REMEMBER, one size does not fit all! She needs our support not the guilt trip."<P>I totally agree! We (as in MB people) always get sucked into this discussion ad-nauseum.

To the top for Jill!

Jill,<BR> Just wondering your thoughts on my suggestion.

mthrrhbard:<P>I'm sorry it's taken so long for me to respond... <P>I think that your suggestion of a trial separation is a one. I will definitely give it some more thought. <P>I've mentioned before that my situation is extremely unique/delicate. My husband and I are VERY active in our church. My husband and I both adore our families and are very close to them. Someone in my family that I have a special relationship with has a shaky prognosis on her cancer diagnosis. In other words, there are so many people who would be devastated to learn that my husband and I are in the midst of such turmoil. I don't even care about the consequences that I will suffer if/when my marriage problems are revealed...I DO care about my family and my husband's family. I care about my friends...<P>Anyway, thank you for the fresh insight and the great idea...<P>I'll keep you updated.<P>Jill

I really know what you mean about the timing needing to be right, for such a thing as a separation to occur and get desirable results. There is much to consider when considering such an intervention.Timing,however,could be everything.H and I did not separate immediately after discovery. It was about a month before he actually moved out and then he was here more than he was away <P>Glad to hear your considering it.It can have rewarding benefits,if done in love!