Good morning all!<P>Another tough start of a day. Afternoons seem better for me, when I'm home enjoying my children. I am thankful for them.<P>NoMas, I know there has been a lot of discussion about sharing with our spouses the (full) extent of our feelings, involvement, hurt and loss. I, too, have not done that, thinking in part my husband couldn't handle it, he might even do something really foolish, etc. I am kind of independent and just thought I have to "tough this out alone". But lately the thought has come to me that I might be holding some things back because it gives me some control over the situation. Maybe I haven't wanted to turn that over to him and be fully accountable. It is keeping "a little part of this" for myself and really has allowed me to keep up some contact. Maybe I haven't wanted to give that all up yet. I see, though, that is keeping a gap between my husband and I. I am beginning to realize what full disclosure (as much as they want to know) really means. It removes walls and barriers and little private places we keep for ourselves. You are right, I don't know your situation and you may have very different and justified reasons for "going it alone", but for myself there is some truth to the thoughts expressed above.<P>Another thought I've had recently: I have read that some betrayed spouses have wondered if their spouse could ever love them the way they loved the OP. Some have been amazed to read the e-mails, never knowing their spouse could be so affectionate, open and expressive of their feelings. They desire and long for their spouse to relate to them in the way they related to the OP. Well, turn it around and it is the same for me. Can my spouse ever show the love towards me that the OP did? I am longing for that also and have never experienced it in my marriage (not even close), even in our dating times. My husband has been rather indifferent/nonchalant towards me. It made me wonder if he even loved or liked me very much. My question often these days is "Why couldn't he do that?". Why didn't he want to converse with me, share his life with me, want to know/care about my daily activities, be affectionate, share goals and plans, admire me... I tried to build that with him, but there was no response on the other side. Not having the answers to that "why" (he can't explain it either) makes it very hard to turn back. It is like turning from sunshine to damp fog, from abundance to barrenness. And the fear is it may always stay that way. Isn't that what makes it so hard for us to give up the contact and return back? The problem is you have to let go of the one before you can really give the other a chance. Believe me it is like making that jump out of the plane, trusting the parachute will open. There is a delay time, where you are just free in the air, waiting for the parachute. There is a time of barrenness before the abundance. It is the hope in a promise, yet unfulfilled and often never yet realized at any time in your marriage. It is hard, but unless a seed falls into the ground... <P>Today I read this in Psalm 66:<P>For you, O God, tested us; you refined us like silver.<BR>You brought us into prison and laid burdens on our backs. <BR>You let men ride over our heads; we went through fire and water, but you brought us to a place of abundance. <P>I like the part about "brought us to a place of abundance". That is my longing and my hope. I know I cannot find it outside of God's will. Again, SIGH. Lots of sighs for me these days.<P>

momma:<P>I hope you don't take any offense to this, but from reading this post you have a child with XOM? How hard that must be on you!!!<BR>I don't know your situation, tell me a little about it.<P>You are very strong for not contacting XOM. <P>Bighope

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by siftedlikewheat:<BR><B>....I hope we didn't bring on your sad feelings by talking about our struggles today! You were doing so well. Our moods are certainly affected by what we dwell on.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You didn't bring me down, Sifted. I do that to myself. But I agree with what you said about our moods being affected by what we dwell on. You are also such an encouragement to me. See how we can all help each other, even if we're struggling ourselves?!!<BR> <BR>Thanks for the "pep" talk, you're right, it is hard, but it can and does get better.<P>I wanted to tell you I agree with all you said on this post (about H vs. OM). But, I don't want to start my rambling again, so I won't make anymore comments! It still amazes me how you guys can have such similar points of view and feelings as I do.<P>Thank you for your understanding and sharing. You guys sure are helping me tons!!! Keep on hanging in there, Sifted. You'll figure it out! <BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bighope:<BR><B>momma:<P>I hope you don't take any offense to this, but from reading this post you have a child with XOM? How hard that must be on you!!!<BR>I don't know your situation, tell me a little about it.<P>You are very strong for not contacting XOM. <P>Bighope</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thank you for telling me I'm strong for not contacting XOM. I'm not really, but it helps me to hear it! It is very hard, that's why I was asking you about your H and the OW's child. Thank goodness you don't have to deal w/that!! I'm going to take some of what I've posted earlier to give you an idea of my story:<P>I'm the WS that had OC w/OM. (H knows all). I ended the affair shortly after I found out I was pregnant and had no contact w/OM the whole pregnancy. I still thought about OM, but never acted on it. However, after I had my baby, I found it VERY difficult to get OM out of my head. Then, I made contact and affair was on/off again for months. <P>Now, my child is 11 mos., and I've not had contact w/OM for almost 3 mos. <P>That may give you an idea of what I'm going through. You can also do a search on my user name (momma). That gives all my posts I've made or responded to.<P>Thanks for your concern, too!!!<BR>

Hi Momma...<BR>Wow...I knew little bits and pieces of your story, but I didn't know you and XOM had no contact and then started up again after your child was born. What an emotional experience you've lived through, not to mention your husband. Bless him for taking your child with OM in to raise as his own. We have another friend going through this exact situation...unbelieveable! <BR>Again, Momma, you are an inspiration having endured all that you have. Thanks for sharing the truths you do about us having to let go of OP before we can really reconnect with our H's. (Your name suits you well, as you console the rest of us going through this!)<P>Sifted...<BR>what you wrote today to NoMas is so absolutely true! Thanks for that Psalm as well. I can so related to longing for that depth of passion with your H that you shared with OM. I am pondering that very same truth, that in my heart, as long as I keep a small window open with OM, then I haven't fully given myself back to my H. Like you and NoMas, I haven't revealed everything to my H. Your precious example confirms to me that I, too, am holding onto memories of OM, but the sad reality is that no matter what we had, God cannot and will not ever bless it. I've got to let it go. Hanging on, pining for what we once "had" is not going to allow me to find that abundance God promises with my H. <P>You also mentioned you're an intuitive and your H is a sensing personality. That's exactly how my H and I are. He's not into revealing his heart, and I thrive on deep, introspective thought. I could relate to your hiking example...exact same experience f9or us. My H wants to examine all of the critters along the way, I want to talk about dreams, goals, places in the heart. We simply don't speak the same language, where as OM and I did. <P>Sifted, can you tell me how you finalized the "no contact" with OM? I know I need to do that. Did you talk to him and decide together? Or did you write him a letter? Was it a mutual decision for both of you? Though I've "mentally" excised myself from OM, he sends me emails wanting to talk about personal stuff, and I don't want to lose that by telling him to leave me alone. That seems so harsh and cruel considering how close we were. But I know it's fence sitting on my part. If you don't mind, what did you say and how did OM respond to your decision? <P>PS...do any of you have your emails posted anywhere? <BR><p>[This message has been edited by wings (edited June 20, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wings:<BR><B>Schizzo..<BR>I'm not certain where you posted your story, but from what I read, you and your husband are trying to make that connection as well. Is that right? If he's going through what the rest of us are, he's trying with everything he has to get right with you, his wife, and make your marriage better. Did he get emotionally attached to this OW? Or was it just a fling? In any event...I'm sorry for your pain as well. It's got to be difficult for you to read this thread! <BR>I can tell you my husband is trying to understand what it was that attracted me emotionally to the OM so that he can try to fill that void. He always knew I felt it, but he didn't really take it seriously until I revealed some of the reality of my relationship with OM. Now he's listening and we're both working on communicating. <BR>Are you in counseling?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi Wings,<P>No, it doesn't really hurt me to read these threads because I made it through the anger/pain phase with the help of Jennifer Harley. We did counsel with her.<P>To answer the other question, there was an emotional attachment. I guess he took the jump out of the airplane you guys were talking about because he came clean and really ended all contact.<P>But I was trying to say that I identify with what you have been saying about the connection. I too am a woman with an insensitive husband that didn't know how to meet my needs. The only difference is that he's the one that found someone while I stayed put. For some of you, it sounds like he still loved you, just didn't do a good job meeting your needs (you were probably doing a pretty good job meeting his).<P>I wish I could say all this with fewer words. Anyway, for us there were two people completely out-of-love with each other.<P>So why try at all? 1.We both studied Harley's material and believe there is a chance, a chance for a really fulfilling marriage, and it's worth trying.<P>2.We have children 5 and 3, and I would do anything for them, just not sure what is best for them. Certainly not staying together just for them. We have to make it happen!<P>3.I'm a realist. Unlike you guys there is no OM, and I have never met a guy that would really be this wonderful, unselfish person over the long haul. That's where I believe Harley is right about the fantasy nature of EAs. I think I would just trade known difficulties for unknown.<P>I think what attracted him to the OW was a need for admiration and excitement (she was 21, she even felt the discrepancy, that she felt she had nothing to give to him).<P>I still live up to my name of schizzo.<P>Here's my story, I was much more upbeat when I wrote it:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/003556.html" TARGET=_blank>www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/003556.html</A> <P>Siftedlikewheat - I see you read what I wrote about learning about my h through his emails to OW. It was a shock to discover he could be so tender. Not intense, though. That was all on her side.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wings:<BR><B>Though I've "mentally" excised myself from OM, he sends me emails wanting to talk about personal stuff, and I don't want to lose that by telling him to leave me alone. That seems so harsh and cruel considering how close we were. But I know it's fence sitting on my part. If you don't mind, what did you say and how did OM respond to your decision?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>wings, this was hard for my h too. It is only in hindsight that he can agree that it really was best not just for us but for OW. He was doing her no favors leaving the door open, even a little bit. A clean break allowed her to move on with her life.<P>It does seem cruel, but it's the only way. He too had tried to move to friendship, and started waffling again.<P>It also struck me that you asked if you decided together (meaning you and OM)? We decided as a couple and informed OW by letter that he wanted no further contact and would she please respect it. It also said that his wife (me) had read all their emails. We used the form letter in SAA and added the part about the emails.<P>I think it's an important distinction that it said my wife knows everything and WE...it closes the door, it is no longer he and OW deciding anything together, there is no more THEM.<P>I know you were asking Sifted, but I hope my .02 helps. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by schizzo (edited June 20, 2000).]

Schizzo....<BR>Hi, I just read your earlier post. You've been through the gammut, girl! I hope no matter where any of us are in this, we can inspire, encourage and support one another. I so love the interaction I get from others here at this forum. You are far wiser than I, in that at least you didn't go out and have your needs met by another. It is absolutely not the answer...only now in hindsight I see clearly. <P>Good for you that you and your H are getting counseling. My H doesn't think he needs any. So I'm left to do this all on my own. As usual. I find that my H pushes too much trying to get close, but it only pulls me further away. Does that make any sense? There's a fine line isn't there in all of this? <P>I hope you and your H stay the course...as so many of us are, and eventually find that balance. At least he's been honest with you. That's a good start. <P>Oh, and thank you for your insight as to how you and your husband handled the OW. Wow, that's a bold step he took. I respect him for that. I appreciate you sharing that...very much!<P><p>[This message has been edited by wings (edited June 20, 2000).]

Wings,<P>Thanks for your reply. Yes, I do love the interaction.<P><p>[This message has been edited by schizzo (edited June 20, 2000).]

Schizzo,<P>You really gave me some things to think about. Wings asked if the OM and I decided together to break all contact. The answer to that is "yes". Not that we "wanted", but knew we had to. It is interesting, Schizzo, that you and your husband did it together as "you and him" rather than "he and her". That has made me realize that I haven't really been willing to let my husband have such a big part in all this. Even though I knew I would have to end it, I can see that I wanted to control how and when, in my own way. In a sense it was still the OM and I deciding together, rather than my husband and I. I hadn't really seen it that way before.<P>In a way it is easy for me to keep this kind of control because my husband is not very demanding and would probably rather know less than more. He avoids uncomfortable situations and would prefer not to get too involved. That gives me a lot of freedom to do things my way. But I am seeing that is not good for us if we want to be united as one. I can also see how we are both contributors in this, he by avoiding and me by wanting my own way to do things. If I really want the connection and intimacy in a marriage so many of us seem to be striving for, then this "pattern" will have to be addressed. <P>I will have to think about this more, but you have started to open my eyes to something I never really realized, so I thank you, even though the revelation is kind of disconcerting.

Sifted,<P>You sound like a wonderful lady. We had to break many old ways of relating. I was like your hubby in many ways, but I understood the importance of it being us again, the united front.<P>I understood how deeply he felt for her, and how much was on the line. I understood he NEEDED my help to break the contact and move forward.<P>Don't you think your h would want to do as much for you if he knew all? For us, it was the beginning of a new openness in our beating OUR "demons".<P>You are holding on to control, not wanting to be completely vulnerable and lay your cards on the table. It was a tough thing he did. He had no idea how I would react. But you can help him help you. I think we as women "control" 90% of the relationship anyway. Most men don't begin to understand this stuff unless they are SHOWN.<P>One reason he ended up in a 2nd affair is that he never resolved or came clean after the first one. He carried the guilt alone and felt he had to pretend to be this great, righteous person at home. It was with OW 2 that he shared he had already cheated on me, that he was a lowlife, and she apparently had a similar situation with her BF.<P>I was shocked to learn not only about the infidelity, but the extent. I'm the type of person who would have run and confessed if I so much as kissed another guy. But I realize he was looking for "love", to have his needs met. We have banded together to better understand each other and HELP each other through this.<P>Only once did OW try to contact him and he told me right away.<P>I'm glad I made you think. It pains me to see y'all fighting this alone, as I've said many times to NoMas.<P>We are building a new marriage, one in which we are starting to be able to share EVERYTHING, especially our internal struggles. <B>Maybe it is here, in pain, that the true connection is found, rather than the high and thrill of an affair.</B><P>Obviously it helped that I wanted to know and would prompt him to tell me. He was always transparent anyway and I could tell when he was "looping" about her.<P>I must have been in a coma for the 18 months this was all going on, 'cause now I can tell right away when something is not right. I guess it is the difference of being in the state of intimacy (Harley's 3 states - withdrawal, conflict, intimacy).<P>You're welcome to email me. cvsoto@mail.com<P>------------------<BR>Cindy<p>[This message has been edited by schizzo (edited June 21, 2000).]

sifted,<P>Now you got me started, I'm long-winded!<P>I was just wondering what your h would post if he were here. Maybe giving you so much "space" is his way of showing his love and trust. Maybe he is crying inside for the closeness like I was. You will never know 'till you lay the cards on the table.<P>God never intended love triangles. You and your h are intended to be "one flesh" and this is a perfect opportunity to give him that chance...you may have to convince him how much you need him.<P>Did you read lostva's thread? Yes, a bit of OW flaming (can't remember if the OM was married), but it was a real, everyday type example of the couple working together with a woman who just won't leave them alone. She works with Lostva's h, making total no contact impossible.

Hi Schizzo,<P>More and more I am seeing how I distanced myself from my husband over the past year. Honesty and openness is my top EN and I have always been very honest and open with my husband. But for the first time ever, I compromised on that - so I could get my needs filled somewhere else. <P>My husband does give me a lot of space. I think it is because he loves and trusts me, but I wonder if it is also because he doesn't want to get involved. Sometimes that "space" can come across as indifference and not caring. I am independent and I like some space, but not as much as he was giving me over the years. I'm sure, though, that my independent nature has given the message that "no one can tell me what to do" and "I am my own person". We will have to find a more healthy balance as we build. So, much work ahead...<P>I do know my husband wants the closeness (like you said you did). Do you think you gave your husband too much space and trust? Did you not feel you could interfere? Part of it is my husband's personality - he is not aggressive, but more holds back. Are you like that also? Just some things I'm wondering about. We can all learn from each other (betrayed and betrayers).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by siftedlikewheat:<BR><B>Do you think you gave your husband too much space and trust? Did you not feel you could interfere? Part of it is my husband's personality - he is not aggressive, but more holds back. Are you like that also?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, obviously too much trust. He is a committed Christian, I never dreamed he could do this. Space? Not really. I have always wanted to be involved in his life/he in mine. We never had "separate" lives. He spent all his non-working hours with us. The travel opened the door for lots of "space" I guess.<P>I am not aggressive either, but not sure what you mean about interfering. The minute I knew about the EA, I would not rest without being a full part of recovery. I'm an all or nothing person when it comes to some things. I was ready to throw him out a few times if I thought he was shutting me out.<P>

Hi all,<P>I hope you don't mind me jumping in. I used to post here a year ago, then on the recovery board, and eventually dropped off. Well, something happened last month, and I've been lurking around here and there, trying to regain some strength. I felt really drawn to this thread because of the similarity to my feelings.<P>I have been married 13 years and have 3 children. I started an EA with a coworker 9 years ago, that eventually turned into a very deep physical/emotional affair. OM and I, both married, were closer than we had ever been with anyone else, best friends, etc… Meanwhile, our affair carried on, even when my husband and I were having children, and his wife and he were having children. We were not always physical with one another, it was more often emotional, but there was both. We believed that we were staying in our marriages because of our children, our jobs, our families, our churches, and that we deserved one another despite our "sacrifice" of staying married. Over the years, we would go through spurts where we would know we were so wrong, and the guilt would overwhelm us, so we would decide to be just friends. Months later we would move back toward one another. All it would take would be one look, and it would start again. After 5 years of this, the guilt and pain overtook me, and I confided in a friend, who took it upon herself to reveal our affair to both spouses. My husband responded by calling me a whore, ignoring me for a total of 4 hours, and then telling me he forgave me, and never wanted to talk about it again. <P>After discovery, I continued to work in the same building with OM, but not together. Although we had promised it was over forever after discovery, almost a year later we again started to become emotionally attached and resumed the affair. The pain of living two lives was overwhelming me, but I could not break free. I was so deeply in love with OM, and the more my H ignored all the signs that I was emotionally detached from him, the more I believed he obviously could not care that much about me (this helped me justify my behavior all the more). This lasted for 2 more years, until by some act of God, I was offered a great job far away. I jumped on this opportunity to start anew. My H did not know my real reason for wanting to move, but was excited about it anyway and also changed jobs and we moved. <P>Withdrawal was almost like torture to me for a long while, although I hid it from my H as best as I could. I did not call or write OM at all after we moved. I have been in a lot of pain and I still miss him on many occasions, but have avoided him at all costs. However, last month OM called me out of the blue- he was here on a business trip and just wanted to have dinner with me to catch up and talk about our jobs and kids. The draw was there again, and stupidly I met him for dinner. I was very friend-like during dinner (which really bothered him), but at the end he asked if he could kiss me. I said No, that I was recovering from him, and that I should just leave. I offered a hug, again stupidly, which invariably turned into a kiss (all the passion re-ignited). Then I abruptly left before anything worse could happen. I knew it was a horrible mistake to have seen him.<P>Anyway, I have been struggling with this for 4 weeks now, feeling sick and guilty and again back in withdrawal from OM. Not quite back to point A, but definitely several steps back from where I had been. And this is 2 YEARS later! I was wondering if it would ever end, when I read this thread and realized where my problem lies. I did reveal my affair to my H years ago, but was never able to explain the depth of it to him. He never knew I felt in love with OM. I did move away from OM, but never shared the reason with my H. I think I never healed from this properly because my H and I never became any closer after it happened. I am afraid to broach this subject with him, because in my H's eyes, this OM has been out of our lives for 5 years already. To admit that there have been so many more lies and secrets, I am afraid to do. Also, my H had told me upon learning of the affair that he never wanted to discuss it again. He never knew it continued a year after discovery. I'm sick inside, but yet realize that the only way I'm ever going to fall back in love with my H (and completely rid myself of OM) is to become emotionally closer to my H, and I guess to share this all with him. What is the proper way to be completely honest with a spouse who is a conflict avoider and does not like to hear the truth? Like I mentioned above, there were many signs of all this that he avoided over the years, yet he never asked me "what is wrong?". I want to be rid of this feeling once and for all… and I want desperately to love my H again. I haven't said "I love you" to him since discovery, and he has never noticed (or never mentioned it). We have a really bad pattern of avoidance in our marriage.<BR>

Hi Tamis....<BR>Welcome back! I'm so glad you joined this thread. As you have probably read, there are several of us here in various stages of withdrawl and recovery from EA/PA's. <P>I was so blown away by the pain you must be in. I can imagine how you must feel, especially how to go about the "revealing all" crisis. That's an essential element for which I, myself, have not attempted to conquer yet. <P>Though my relationship with OM didn't last nearly as long as yours,it was intensely emotional and as passionate, for sure. I completely understand how you feel. We're still playing that back and forth game. When you mentioned your last contact with OM for dinner, I've been there...and you're right, we know better, we think we're strong enough to handle it, but we only deceive ourselves...and then the pain starts all over again. <P>Read some of Schizzo's postings...she has helped me see that in order for my H and I to get back on track, that I need to release this barrier I have established and detach completely. She's given me a new point of view that has helped me see it from the betrayed spouse's point of view. (Thanks Schizzo) <P>My H sounds much like yours, he hates conflict and doesn't really care to know the why's and wherefore's of my draw toward OM. He doesn't really want to talk about it, he doesn't want counseling, he justs wants us to move on...so I hesitate telling him ALL the details. <P>I don't have answers for you, but I know you don't expect that. We must search our own hearts and ask God to show us how/when to deal with full disclosure. I'm working with my counselor on that issue. He says I'll know when it's the right time...but I don't feel ready yet. <P>I'm so sorry for your pain, but as you have probably read, you are not alone in this.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I think I never healed from this properly because my H and I never became any closer after it happened.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Welcome, and this quote is soooo true.<P>Have you read Surviving an Affair?<P>After he gave up OW, I was convinced we must try a full recovery by Harley's rules or split. Period.<P>You have lived with such torture...

Hi all!<P>Tamis, I'm glad you shared your story here. I echo everything Wings wrote. I really feel for your pain and the burden you have been carrying all these years. Being in a triangle like that is horrible. It is one of the things that gave me the strength to get out of this. It messes up your heart and your feelings. It is so confusing. I know I'm not capable of having my feelings go towards more than one person. Even though all your feelings may be directed towards the OP, neither of you belong to each other and that creates such a crazy mess inside. I often felt like there was no safe place to turn to.<P>What an insight to realize that full healing and growing closer to your spouse comes only when you are totally honest and remove all the barriers. I could easily be in your shoes as time progresses if I do not realize this for myself also. My situation is like yours in a way, but a much shorter length of time (1 year). Like you, my husband found out last fall. There was about a three week period where he was very open with his hurt and I answered all his questions (plus he got ahold of all our e-mails, so he really learned everything up to that point). Seems like his main concern was "did we go all the way" (we hadn't). Once he knew that he buried the rest of the pain and didn't really deal with the affair openly anymore. He just wanted to move on with "us". He also "forgave" me quickly and that was it for him. He didn't seem to realize how significant the emotional attachment was. So, I continued to have contact with the OM and my husband hasn't brought it up (except every once in awhile in the form of a threat). I think he may be afraid to really know. I am usually the one who addresses issues directly in our relationship and since I wasn't ready to give up my emotional attachment, I just kept it inside. <P>I've just thought all along once I end this we'll just move on and I won't have to mention that it continued beyond discovery. Now I see that is a barrier and it will prevent full recovery and healing for us both if I keep hiding it, even though I have ended it now. Like you, I am afraid to broach this topic with my husband because he also has thought the OM was out of our lives for the last 6 months. I don't think he ever really understood the depth of the emotional attachment. I'm not sure right now how to begin with this. I will have to pray and see also. I am afraid he will be very angry and maybe do something foolish (because of some threats he has made in the past). I realize that he hasn't dealt with all his anger over this yet either. It all was closed up so quickly after discovery.<P>Like you, I am wondering: "What is the proper way to be completely honest with a spouse who is a conflict avoider and does not like to hear the truth? Like I mentioned above, there were many signs of all this that he avoided over the years, yet he never asked me "what is wrong?"."<P>Let us continue to encourage each other in this and share insights as they come. Thanks again, Tamis, for sharing on this thread. Maybe now after all these years full healing will be realized for you - and your story will prevent some of us from having a similar pattern.

Sifted,<P>I think men focus much more on the sexual and dissmiss the emotional, though I'm sure he still buried a lot of pain. My h and the little girl went all the way on the first date! (Sorry, venting)<P>I know people recommend against "educating" one's spouse, but my h did it without it being an lb. I was the one who set up the counselling session and he poured his heart out to Jennifer Harley first.<P>But he had the book "Surviving an Affair" ready (without the jacket) in his briefcase. I wouldn't dream of telling you how to go about this, just throwing out ideas. If he blew it off the first time, it's up to you to convince him of the seriousness of the threat, lower the barriers as you said, and if possible, point him towards recovery.<P>Have you read the book? The no contact issues you said you were chewing on came from there. It also follows the story of two affairs: one emotional and short, one full-blown sexual, she (the betrayer) moves out, kicks him out instead and finally wants to try only after OM has blown her off.<P>Amazingly the second couple made it too. But it clearly shows that even the emotional one was a serious issue, and goes over the steps to recovery. It was co-authored by Jennifer (Harley) Chalmers and we did phone counselling with her for some time.<P>Chew on it, ladies. I really do hate to see y'all trying to beat this alone and meanwhile missing the opportunity to build the closeness.<P>The book makes a statement that "An emotional reaction to a painful event fades over time, AS LONG AS THE PAINFUL EVENT IS NOT REPEATED."<P>Healing cannot begin for you or your spouse until the affair ends, really is left in the past with finality. The book has a whole chapter on "How Should Affairs End?"<BR><P>------------------<BR>Cindy

Hey, I went out on a limb here, hope I didn't step on any toes. No comments???