tootrusting,<P>I liked what you wrote. I'll have to get that book. It reminds me of what a Baptist minister told me (he's the minister of the church where some of the dances I attend are held - I knew swing dancing would bring me to spiritual enlightenment ).<P>He said that in order to truly love someone you have to know how to hate them. I asked him to explain what he meant and he said that you have to get to know all the bad things, the annoying things about the person. See him for who he really is. And accept it. And love him anyway. If you can do that, then it's love.

Truthseeker, I'm glad you liked the passage. I have really found his books to be inspirational to me. <P>There is a thread on EN about what makes a good marraige. I've thought and thought about it and I think that the awareness of yourself and your spouse and the acceptance of what you "see" is important.<P>I think what I can see about myself is that in the past two years I have stopped accepting my H entirely....I have started to get angry at his constant indecision and conflict avoidance, and probably taken it out in passsive aggressive ways.<P>At the same time, my H has a hard time accepting much...so much bugs him....about people and things and places...it's amazing. We're separated and things don't look so good because I am not talking to him...(of course in mcounseling he said "everything I say bugs him" so why talk????)<P>But I think if we could learn from this we both could be better people and have a wonderful marraige. But it does take two...I told him I can only do it if he joins me in the fight!!!!! He is still confused....and sad.....and very obsessed in a coworking EA......they just enjoy "working to gether and share some bond to do missionary work." I want to tell him you cant' tend the world if you can't tend your home...but I won't. He'll have to figure that out himself won't he!!!!!

...sigh...<BR>Hi guys.<P>NoMas, you know what I think so I won't repeat. I think my last reply on Hi Wings said it and my replies to momma's help thread.<P>Sheba made a lot of sense to me, that there is an equality of KNOWLEDGE.<P>You can't know your w's motives in her actions without really hashing it out.<P>I know the feeling well of burying my head in denial (mixed my metaphors, oh well). How else could this have gone one for 18 months? No, he left no clues, except his growing distance. But I mentioned once in anger that he should choose between his work and us. Without hesitation he said he chose his work.<P>Little did I know he was then involved with OW #1. It was wrong to ask him that, and I was SCARED at his answer. I went back to everyday life.<P>You know how much support I have given him since he laid it all down for me. I don't know your w, but she just MIGHT be like me. I was the same woman who buried my head in fear.<P>I hear you and the other WS talking as if your choices are to go on like this or break up the marriage. The third (and IMHO only right) option is to lay all the cards on the table. You may risk losing her, but you are not deciding to walk away from the marriage.<P>You put the ball in her court when you come clean, completely. And let the chips fall. That is truly leaving the result to God, because you no longer hold the CONTROL.<P>TS, when was this? Sounds like a great way to convey it all to him.<P>------------------<BR>Cindy

Cindy, <P>I printed out my story back in late February (or early March?). I was posting under 'Why Woemn Leave Men' then. At first my H was planning to move out and then he decided against it. He said he would if I wanted him to, but I would have to ask him to move. I would have to say the words. There was a voice in my head screaming "Yes, I want you to move out, I've made up my mind!" But what came out of my mouth was "I don't know waht I want". I surprised myself with that one. So I decided that we were going to have to try some things to see if we could recover. Its' been going very slow. Mostly because I have a lot of identity and esteem issues that I'm dealing with at the same time. I'm afraid of getting too deep into the relatinship before I've worked out all my personal issues.<P>He is there supporting me, though. Even when I start getting sad about missing the OM, he's there. I don't know how he does it.<P>I guess now that the lines of communication are open, we have a chance.

NoMas, you there??

Yes....I am ...barely.<P>It has been a rough day. I have got off by myself....and just cried....and cried....and cried....and have yet to find relief. My wife was pressing me this morning...about get another appointment to go "get help". She is good about making me feel this is my problem and not "our" problem. Right now...I am an emotional wreck. I can see where I have erected walls all around me...and the only person I want close to me...is the very person I cannot have and have cut loose. <BR>Please forgive me for spilling my guts here...but the one person I have been able to talk to so freely this past year...is just not available for me to go to anymore. I know this must be like a knife in the heart of you who have been betrayed. You must have such bewildered pain that resides in your heart...and fearing that your own spouses could feel the depth of agony that I express here. I beg your forgiveness for adding undo stress or heartache.<P>I feel like the prodigal son...making the long trek home...no longer feeling 'worthy' to come home...but not knowing where else to go. <tears><BR>The darkness surrounds me. I just want to be happyily married again. <BR>Allow me to once again...just give you some insight to my heart here....<BR>I have been in this valley for some time now. I am sooooooo tired....and worn out. Sin will do that to you. Rebellion and deceit will do that to you. I see this enormous mountain before me that must be scaled. It is the path of restoring my marriage. I feel like I have spent all my energy just climing out of this pit...and I'm not sure I am out yet. Now...the prospect of telling my wife...and starting to work things out....just seems to big a mountain to scale right now.<P>***sigh****<P>I just don't know...I just want to lay down...and take a very long nap.<P>I am in much pain today....for many reasons. Even God ....appears to be silent. I am thankful....for this place...where I can atleast "vent"....<BR>

NoMas...I think real change is on its way for you...possibly even rougher waters ahead...but maybe a clear direction.<P>I hope you are misinterpreting your wife. I don't think she has enough information to feel like your problem is her problem, because you have been keeping it to yourself. She may surprise you.<P>If anything I posted added to your torment, I am sorry. I guess I kind of snapped when you posted that you mislead your wife about contact, because for me, that was the mistake my H made that still haunts me today. You may be making it worse than it has to be, even if you believe you are being protective of your wife and her feelings.<P>If you do tell her, there is a difference between being truthful and being cruel. Remember to temper your honestly with how you want to feel...how you are moving toward healing.<P>Take care.

Okay NoMas,<P>Now you're starting to make me nervous. <P>Yeah, your wife thinks this is just your problem because right now it is. <P>You have to get some help and soon. You cannot lay down and go to sleep, you can not just go off by yourself. Nothing you are doing so far is working NoMas. You do not have the answers, and you never will without help. Reach out...if you can't reach out to your wife reach out to someone (Not OW for God's sake).<P>Can dealing with your wife be any worse than what you are going through now. Let her be strong and hold you up. She will feel good that you are letting her help you. She may just be up to the challenge NoMas. She obviously cares a great deal about you.<P>I want you to make some sort of a move, because you are not doing well. You are digging yourself into a depression, and cutting yourself off from the people that love you most (your wife) is not the answer. Can you schedule a talk with one of the Harleys?<P>Please NoMas, come back to life. Take that plunge now. We care so much...keep posting.<P>allison

Let it all out NoMas. I know the pain.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>My wife was pressing me this morning...about get another appointment to go "get help". She is good about making me feel this is my problem and not "our" problem. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is because you haven't shown her that it is a problemfor the tow of you to work on together. She sees it as only your problem because that is how you've presented it to her.<P>I know how scary it is to have to tell your spouse about the EA. I have been there. But it was the best thing I could have done. Now my H has the information he needed to be able to help me through it. Your wife wants you to get help. She knows that you are in pain and has no idea why. Tell her why. Let her help you.<P>You mentioned the story of the prodigal son. Was he shunned when he returned home? NO! <P>Go to your wife, NoMas. Tell her what your pain is about and let her help you. Once you open up to her, you will feel some of that energy come back. The mountain will look a little smaller. And you'll be one step closer to the top.<P>

allison....<BR>Don't worry....I won't do anything that drastic. Thank you for being concerned.<P>I think I will go to town and pick up a video to watch this afternoon since I am <BR>off, wife is at work.<P>I think you all are almost persuading me. I might just give in....and let my wife know what is going on. I just can't go this route anymore. I am ready in my heart to 'come clean." Now...if I can just get the nerve. Perhaps tomorrow or wednesday. She is currently working second shift....hate to send her off to work with that bombshell...maybe an early breakfast and long ride in the country. <P>oh I hate this....I will let you know....not making any promises here...but more open to this than I ever have been.<BR>Thanks...<P>

NoMas,<P>Your W doesn't know that she is part of the problem because you haven't even told her. She is not a mind reader and you need to come clean and open with her before anything can be done.<P>If you don't, then you will continue to wallow in misery and it will get worse.<P>Go tell her or show her your Posts and then discuss it afterwards.

NoMas, I feel for you in my heart. REALLY BIG SIGH.<P>I know that valley and it is wide. I know the exhaustion and the desire to just lay down and rest. Before me is also a BIG mountain, which sometimes doesn't even seem scale-able. I feel it today, too. Soooo tired. <P>{{{{{{{{NoMas}}}}}}}}}}<P>Someone gave me one of those today - and it brought comfort and tears (never thought an electronic "hug" could have that effect).<P>You are not alone. Be kind to yourself. Try to rest your mind. Rest in HIM today.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by schizzo:<BR>[BI hear you and the other WS talking as if your choices are to go on like this or break up the marriage. The third (and IMHO only right) option is to lay all the cards on the table. You may risk losing her, but you are not deciding to walk away from the marriage.<P>You put the ball in her court when you come clean, completely. And let the chips fall. That is truly leaving the result to God, because you no longer hold the CONTROL.<P>[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>NoMas, I hear you, but I'm quoting myself in case you didn't hear me.<P>I completely agree with those who have already said that she thinks it is your problem because she doesn't know ALL.<P>I hope you are persuaded to end this nightmare. What do you have to lose? You want to spare her, but don't you think she feels what is not right?<P>Timing is important, but don't talk yourself into putting it off indefinitely. It could be the first day of your recovery...<P>Maybe you could share some of your threads. She would have to "get" the extent of your feelings and know this is not something you can "fix" alone. You truly come across as a sensitive man.<P><P>------------------<BR>Cindy

NoMas,<P>Are you getting tired of this thread yet?<P>Let me tell you how my husband was before he admitted his affair to me. I had seen my huband cry two times in 18 years of marriage. Once when his dad died, and once when our first child was born. When he started his affair, and was in the throes of it, the man cried every day. He stared out of his office window as much as he actually worked. He drove for hours to think. He sat and watched movies and cried. He belittled me and our children. He was the most miserable person on the face of the earth.<P>Since disclosure, and yes, he did leave our home, which was a mutual descision, he has become himself again. He is still sad when we talk about the affair. He has ended the affair and sees it for what it was, a huge waste of time. He is careful about making promises to me, and can not tell me he loves me, but I do see some of the man I married. He can think straight. He is not depressed and being horrible to me or our chldren. People are not asking me anymore if he is on drugs or calling me to see if their finances are safe (he's a stockbroker).<P>So while you have seen how disclosure can help the betrayed, and betryaers alike...I want you to know part of what is eating you up inside it the guilt of the situation. Is it unkind to disclose all of this to your wife? Maybe. Would you be doing it to rid yourself of your guilt, thereby making her life worse? Maybe. But NoMas, she will find out anyway. Do you want to be the one to control that situation, or do you want her to have to do what we have done, snoop, feel like crap, worry about you, wonder what she is doing wrong???<P>Telling me does not mean my husband is now madly in love with me and begging me to come home. He is still confused as to what type of life he wants to live. But I do now see a bit of what my husband is. His heart is lighter. The load has almost visably been lifted off of his shoulders. I respect him again for his honesty, and reward it by not throwing things up in his face. <P>NoMas, that movie you rented...it's another deversion. Enjoy it, sit and wonder whether Tuesday would be better, or maybe Wednesday,,,gee Sunday maybe. Do it for you NoMas, as well as for her, and get her to this site after you do so that she can see your wonderful words.<P>allison

up for inamess<P>NoMas, your words that you were almost convinced reminded me of King Agrippa, "You have almost convinced me to believe."<P>Then Paul replied, "Oh, I would you were like me except for these chains..."<P>It just came to mind, and quoted from memory, so sorry if it's not too accurate.

Sifted,<P>Read this thread. <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/003712.html." TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/003712.html.</A> I think that is the way I put this in here. HeHe!<P>I know all to well what you are saying. <BR>I finally just came out and said a few things. I was very nice about it. I told him I wanted it to work. but I had to have him as well. <P>Just kinda ease your way in. As for the pain of OM. That only arises when I start to get lonely. Otherwise it isnt even in my head. I KNOW THAT IT CANT BE!<P>I will not torture my H. If he doesnt want to hear about it then I will respect that. That is the way I am. I know how he deals with things. I so think he now knows that i was in love with OM.<P>Good luck to you Sifted<BR>Renee<P>------------------<BR>We can do all things through Christ which strengthens us. Repeat that 5 times a day. I promise you success!

Thanks, inamess for the tip. I appreciate your posts. Let's keep encouraging/learning from each other.