I know how extremely hard this must be for you right now. I haven't been here in a while so I don't know your story. But what I can tell you is that I am the betrayed. I found out 3 months ago. I had been suspicious but H denied it. I caught them at her apartment. I haven't left and neither has he. But I've wondered if he'd rather be with her. Anyway, just yesterday, I spoke to the OW and her H. My H is out of town right now. We've talked and decided the kids and I would move out (at his request) to make certain that I really want to work thru all this. I have said all along that I thought we could work things out. He has said all along that he wants to but he doesn't think I will ever get past this. Anyway, as time got closer to the kids and I leaving, it seemed for the first time since discovery that he really wanted to be with me. But yesterday, I found out from the OW that they have never stopped sleeping together! She said that he told her our marriage was over and that he and I had not slept together since discovery! She said a lot of other things, and I knew she was telling the truth because she had too much knowledge not to be. She was very sorry and said she didn't want to have anything to do with him anymore. I have suspected all along that they were still seeing each other but I had no proof. She told me they had sex 3 days ago! I called H and confronted him. He finally admitted to me that they had been together 3 days ago, but that he now knew that he doesn't love her. He loves me & the kids and will do anything he has to for us to stay. He's never said that before - he's been very selfish since discovery. Sorry to go on about this, but what I wanted you to know is that I feel so much better knowing the truth. I can handle it. It's much easier to handle things when you know what you're dealing with. I know we have a long, hard road ahead of us, but I believe with God's help and a good therapist and total honesty, that we will make it. And I truly believe that our marriage will end up stronger and better than ever. So please be totally honest with your wife. Follow her lead - some people want to know everything and others want to know as little as possible. She will be in shock for a while and she will probably be up and down emotionally, so just be there for her. And pray - it really does work when you ask God for help I will pray for you and your wife - God Bless!

NoMas,<P>I agree that you have done the right thing by confessing to your wife, now this situation can be resolved one way or the other.<P>As to explaining the addictive nature of affairs to your wife, I would suggest that you gather the information so that you can share it with her when the time is right. <P>It is much too soon to do that now. Believe me, it will sound as if you are justifying your betrayal and we all know there is NO justification for infidelity.<P>Instead, please consider spending the first few weeks apologizing to your wife and admitting your mistakes. In other words, for the immediate future concentrate on your wife's needs and surviving this horrible revelation. It will take some time before she is ready to be "educated" on affairs from the betrayer's POV.<P>I realize that you have needs in this situation, but it is totally unrealistic for you to expect your wife to comfort you and accept your excuses at this point. Right now the pain of this betrayal, along with the reignited pain of your first affair, is entirely too strong for your wife to be able to deal with your feelings at this time.<P>When my husband confessed his affair, I was in absolute shock for many days, and then totally unreceptive to the idea of saving our marriage for some time after that. Please give your wife the time and support that she needs right now.<P>As to your earlier insinuation that your wife is somehow at fault for not being aware of your affair, or that spouses that do not suspect their partners of cheating are not really involved in their lives, I take extreme exception.<P>I knew that something was wrong with my husband's behavior. I even commented to two people very close to him that I was concerned about the changes I had observed and was very worried about him. However, after 23 years of marriage, it never entered my mind that he was having an affair because I had total and complete faith and trust in him. Your comments seem to insinuate that anyone in my position must be somehow lacking because we don't suspect infidelity. That is very wrong.<P>Your situation is somewhat different, because your wife is aware that you have been unfaithful before. Believe me, if I notice any puzzling behavior again infidelity will be the first thing I suspect. But only because I now have reason to suspect it. That's the saddest part about this whole mess- total faith and trust are destroyed forever.<P>Please know that everyone here wishes you and your wife all the best in dealing with this sad situtation. I hope you both find happiness, either together or apart.<P>Sincerely,<P>Peppermint

Please continue to post,we will help you get thru this.Even tho your wife is in shock now, I beleive you did the right thing also.God be with you and your family.soon2bx

Wow, NoMas! I'm so glad you told her everything! Talk about communication and confessions this past week, wow! There's been a lot.<P>I just want to say I'm very proud of you for telling all. I know it feels like it hasn't done much good, yet, but now's your chance to work through it. You made a HUGE step and that's a wonderful start. <P>I won't tell you it's going to be very pleasant or easy, because I know as well as you do it's not. But this is your chance to start over, give it your all. I know the pain you're in, just try to work through that pain.<P>You can get through this, NoMas. Please seek our support and help, we can all help each other! My thoughts and prayers are with you and your W.

NoMas,<P>What can I say? You have done a courageous thing. You have come down off the fence and you have opened the gate. I know you're apprehensive right now about what lies on the other side. Everyone who has been in your position understands that apprehension. But it's better then the tormetn you left behind. You and your wife will now be able to heal.<P>Your wife may have been clueless to the affair itself, but in your previous posts it ceratinly sounded like she knew something was wrong, she just didn't know what. Knowing what the problem is is the biggest step toward solving it. <P>Now that 'the truth is out there' you and your wife can tackle the problem together. I really liked the analogy about building the bridge together. God will show you how.<P>You did a good thing.<P>

Hi, NoMas,<P>You might know I've been on both sides of this fence... If you or your W needs to vent or ask questions, I'm available. I was in the "addiction" phase for a long while, perhaps I can help her understand some of it.<P>Good luck to you both - I know you have a lot of good thoughts and support coming your way from all of us here.<P>------------------<BR>~suse~<BR>Rome wasn't built in a day.<BR>

Hi No Mas, <P>I am probably going to be the only one to suggest this... but some one does.<P>You really should not come here any more. First, you should tell your wife you will no longer come because it will help show her you are serious and second rebuild trust.<P>Second, who knows you are probably talking to the OW still. She sees your posts and you see her. No Contact means no contact. You will never be able to rebuild untill you leave and focus everything on your wife. <P>Third, I guess you can learn a very helpful lesson. Do not make a mess where you live. The saying is a bit more graphic but I think you will learn the moral of the story anyway.<P>Finally, You really should do everything it takes to win back the love of your wife. I think telling your wife two hours before she has to go to work was a bit un-fair to her and very selfish for you. You tell her and then have all this free time to go on-line and come here and talk about it. <P>Have you told your wife the OW's user name? Have you written the No contact letter? Are you even willing to? What are you going to do to make this up to your W for the rest of your life?

<BR>You've done a couragous thing, NoMas.<P>Find something to hold on to and don't let go until the ride stops.<P>Slightly Sane<BR>

This post to follow was typed up before I logged on this morning. I have had server problems for past two days...an really have not had much of a chance to come here anyway.<BR>So the following 'update' was written before seeing most of the recent post to me. Let me first address just a few things in response.<P>As to telling my wife several hours before her going to work...well...I was confronted by her with a question....and when she asked me....I just knew in my heart...that the lying had to stop...and that was as good as time as any. Her timing with some of her questions in recent months have never been very good. And as I have been told here repeatedly, there is never a "convenient" time to tell...and believe me...in my case...there really never was one.<P>About not coming here to MB anymore. Well...I did kind of 'sign off' last week. That was before my wife knew anything. I felt like I owed it to some people here to at least let them know what had progressed.<P>Regarding my wife being 'clueless'....I know that in the past few months, with my behavior and such, that "clueless" was not the word I would have used.<P>Also...let me add here for clarification... as I seen several mentions of it here...I have not had several affairs, nor has this been some pattern in my life. I've been married for 19 years. A year ago, I was facing some serious temptation in the work place. First time I had ever been "tested" like this. There was absolutely NO lines crossed there...inappropriate discussion...actions...words...suggestion... PERIOD! I shared with my wife then...the struggle I was facing as it had never been an issue in our marriage in the past. When I came here to MB for help, I did meet someone on the boards who offered much support and we did cross lines. I did go to meet her in person for a brief visit. There was some innappropriate contact, but no intercourse. After confessing in Jan, and breaking off contact, not much progress was made here on the homefront. We resumed contact not long after, so the "affair" has been pretty much "emotional" for the most part. Not trying to "soften" the truth here..., just wanted to clarify for those who thought otherwise.<P>Now...here is my update from this morning.<P>*****sigh*****<P>Well.....where do I start????<P>This...is going to be a very difficult journey. I have wondered recently....that if I did not have the strength, the fortitude, and the character....to resist ending up in the place to begin with, where in the world am I going to find it to ‘work my way out’ of this place????<P>We have had a lot of time together the past two days. Much of it has been quiet and on the ‘tense’ side. At this point, there seems to be basically two frustrating challenges I face. <P>First of all....for all practical purposes, I am made to feel that this whole problem we are facing is “my” issue. “I” am the one with the problem. We took a long drive Sunday night...and some “discussion” did take place. I just tried to vocalize where things might have started deterioting in our marriage, being so busy and extended with so many other things...that the marriage would have naturally suffered. Not sure why, but she doesn’t see it that way. I am trying so hard not to come across like I am “blaming”, rather just looking at the obvious signs that any amateur counselor could see the evidence that neglecting the marriage would lead to problems.<P>I have accepted and acknowledged my responsibility in this dilema. I firmly believe that there are no “excuses”....but that there are “reasons.” I have wanted so bad to try to look at the “why’s” of this....but that seems to be too sensitive of an area to talk about.<P>The other problem facing me is this. I know I have done wrong. No wife/spouse deserves the pain that I have caused my wife to feel. I firmly believe this. It is an open and shut case. And I would think that since I am the “betrayer”....that I should be doing everything in my power and heart...to humble myself and reach out to my wife with humility and tears....and make every effort to “make things right” here at home....but I am having trouble getting my heart to cooperate. There is the issue of the withdrawl that I am struggling with, and, I might add, my wife thinks is an absurd concept. I have not neccissarily told her I was in withdrawl over this friend....but tried to explain why I struggled in breaking off contact with her in January after confessing to the ‘meeting’ back then.<P>You know how a smoker gets when he is trying to quit...and is really wanting one bad...or the drinker....or the drug addict...or the dieter.......and when that flesh starts demanding to be satisfied and is told “no“, it can get rather irritated. Well...it is no different here in this case. Then, given the fact that my wife has a bit of justified anger and resentment in her as well....I am finding it very, very, very, hard...to reach out and be tender and loving...when most of what I am getting from her is ....a lot of buried, seeping rage.<P>NO...I do not think for a moment that she should “be loving and sweet and feel sorry for me because I can no longer have my lovely friend”. I really was not expecting that. I am just trying to be candid and transparent here...as I have always tried to be on these boards... in sharing what I am struggling with.<P>Remember....I have chronicled here over the past year, how on several attempts, I did try to cry out to my wife for help in this matter...and sharing her the temptations my heart was facing...and honestly...I feel like those cries went unanswered. I don’t believe she ever really understood or believed in the seriousness of the situation. My actions were not in “retaliation” for that. And I do suspect that part of my anger or frustration botted up in me, is that I would have never been in this place had she tried to be more understanding when I first came to her for help. So compound all the guilt, sorrow, turmoil, and such that I am wallowing in....I can’t help but feel that she could have helped prevent some of this....but refuses to even “look at” the possibility of this. <P>I am not really sure I want her coming to the boards, fearing that she might start searching and see some of my earlier posts where I really spilled my heart out here in expressing my feelings for my friend. I just don’t know what good would ever come out of her knowing the depth of feelings that I had...and STILL have...for this person. I am not saying they are ‘right’....I am simply stating that...I have them. It does not make it any easier to resolve things here at home.<P>I am leaving at the end of this week for an 8 day retreat back east. There is a place I have been wanting to go for some time to get some one on one help for men in my place in life....that might help me work out some other issues. I kind of think that the marriage problems may be more of a sympton of some of my personal struggles that I am having with career and “season in life.” I was hoping my wife would be able to join me, but it is not working out that way. I did talk to the counselor I would be seeing, and he said that it might actually be better this way...for now for me to come alone. But sooner or later, we will both have to sit down with someone for help. I have much hope and need for this to be a productive week for me coming up. I would appreicate any prayers...for those of you who believe in prayer. I am afraid that if I don’t see some indication of breakthrough in my heart this next week...some healing ...some...’light’....that when I return....things might not get any better.<P>I really need a miracle from God.

NoMas, <P>Your wife is going to need some time to process this beffore she will be in a place where she's ready to address the 'why' of it all. <P>Go easy on her about that and let her set the timeframe for those discussions. She will come to you with questions just as she did with questions that prompted you to tell her. The important thing is to be there for her with honest answers when she does ask. In the meantime, just show her your remorse and your care for her through simple actions.<BR>If you know what things say love to her, do those things. This will tell her that you are sincere about wanting to work on things with her. It will also help her to feel comfortable asking you the uncomforatable questions. <P>Perhaps instead of offering your thoughts unsolicited about why it happened, you could just observe her. At moments when she appears pensive, like she's pondering a question she'd like an answer to but is a littl unsure about asking it, ask her if there's anything she's like to ask you about. Tell her that you are committed to telling her the truth about anything she wants to know. And then make sure you follow through with the truth.<P>The most important thing is to be perceptive about what she is going through. I know the withdrawal is difficult (boy, do I know!). She is not ready to help you deal with your pain yet. She is still trying tpo process her own. What you can do is help each other through the pain by being compassionate and empathetic toward each other. Since you have been dealing with this for a while, you are further along in the process than she is. I think it's up to you to reach out to her first.<P>It is difficult, but with God all things are possible. Let God guide you.<BR>

NoMas, I am sorry your wife is not seeming to understand her part in this. It is truly ashame and I hope that as her initial shock and fears and insecurities lesson she will be able to look more objectively at the situation.<P>I think it is great that you are able to see some "life change" issues or conflicts within yourself.... I do think we all have them.... LIfe is a journey!!!<P>But I have learned so much here.... Our relationships are like a dance. Sometimes we get alittle out of step.... You know the line "it takes two to tango" Well, it will take two to get the dance on the right footing. I hope after 19 years of marraige your wife could look and see her part in the "stepping on the feet"!!!! <P>It is never better with someone else...it is just different....you end up replacing one issue with another!!!! Some people can never really GET that!!! I hope and pray that my H does eventually.... but currently he is still so self-absorbed he cannot SEE anything!!! (well I take that back...he has really made great strides in reconnecting with his kids!!!!)

NoMas,<P>In reading your posts (and some of the replies from others) it sounds like you might be feeling a big responsibility to restore your marriage and get it to that place that we all long for, one where we share the most intimate relationship with another human being on this earth. If that is so, I can relate, having this mindset often. But it has occurred to me lately that that is too big of a responsibility for me alone and, in fact, I can't even accomplish it on my own. It is frustrating to be the one who mostly "carries" the relationship. Someone recently said when we try to do it all alone like that we can get resentful and I think that is true.<P>It helps me to look at it as "so far as it depends on me I will do..." Whatever that right thing for me is. For example, telling the truth and being totally honest, as you recently did. Getting help from a counselor, as you are doing next week. Looking honestly at your life, the place where you are, as you are doing and will do next week. Even behaving in a loving way towards your wife (according to 1 Cor 13: patient, kind, not rude, etc), although the feelings may not be there. Those are all things that do belong to you and "so far as it depends on you, do them". But, the outcome of it all (creating that intimate marriage) belongs to GOD. And your wife has certain responsibilites also, which will be up to her if she addresses them or not. <P>Perhaps this has not been your struggle at all (it has been mine), but if it has, I am just wanting to encourage you today. You may be weary, depleted, confused, hurting. There are many emotions inside. Do your part, you don't need to take on anyone else's. I was also recently reminded of the three-strands in a marriage - each spouse being one and God the other. You are only one of those strands. God is a strong strand if we let Him be. Your wife will need to stretch and become stronger, for she is a part of that cord, too. It isn't your part to make her stronger. Just do, "so far as it depends on you" and leave the consequences and outcome in God's hands.<P>"Be strong and let your heart take courage,<BR>All you who hope in the Lord"<P>Today be encouraged, knowing you are doing your part.

ooops...sorry...double post.<p>[This message has been edited by NoMas (edited July 04, 2000).]

It is a very lonely fourth of July for me. The kids are at the lake...my wife is working all day....and I have had nothing but time on my hands today.<P>I just finished re-reading some articles by Harley. He is quick to suggest a move to another state to get away from the person the WS is involved with. But what does one do when the affair has been "emotional"... And the other person is just the 'click of a mouse away', or just a phone call away. <P>The relationship I have had with this person just grew through our continous communication. I could move to the other side of the country, and for that matter, she is really no further or closer away given the technology we have today.<P>Harley points out that the person going through 'withdrawl' just simply wants to 'die'. Hmmmmmmm....has be been eavesdropping on my heart's moaning? My wife really is not interested in knowing about this struggle I am still in the midst of, and who can blame her?<P>As I have mentioned, I will be leaving at the end of the week for a retreat in the mountains back east. I am going with a desprate hope....that somehow, and someway, I will meet God there to deliver me. If there is little or no change in this torn heart of mine, I dread to think of what will become of me. <P>For the life of me, I just can't imagine....ever getting over the urge to pick up a phone and call, or email this person who became such a close friend to me. I feel like I am having to walk through a minefield that lies before me....blindfolded. <P>Sorry for the 'down' post....just has been a very difficult day for me....<BR>

NoMas,<P>I'm on the road, but the family is sleeping so I borrowed the laptop.<P>You took that first step. I do believe it is the only way to begin again.<P>But you sound like you are still trying to protect her from feeling more hurt by letting her see the extent of your feelings. She has to know, yes, and feel like she could lose you. At least I did.<P>I'm not sure I agree with Harley about avoiding "educating" our spouses. My h already had a copy of Surviving an Affair and "insisted" we read it together, that here was our hope of making a full recovery.<P>I couldn't read it and NOT get a very clear idea about the nature of the ADDICTION. It is loud and clear throughout the two stories he follows. If she'll read it with you, she can see it is not you putting some spin on it.<P>And I do also believe that the only way to get over an inappropriate love is to replace it. You and you w have a lot of building to do. I know for us to be apart that long would not have been good. We went for a cruise together where we were literally thrown together all day, and neither of us had much desire to do much so we talked and talked and cried, and I came back thinner.<P>Even in the pain we were both in we rediscovered each other, we were FRIENDS to each other. He would sit with me and listen, then I would sit with him and listen.<P>Hang in there, NoMas. You do have a huge climb in front of you, but at least you're not in freefall.<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>Cindy

I titled this that my wife 'knows everything."<BR>But I KNOW she really has no comprehension of the depth of agony that I am and how deep these feelings for the other person are.<BR>Surely, there can be no value in her knowing this, can there?<BR>The days...go by....oh...so slowly.<BR>Still...not much being said....<P>Could I be dying a slow death?<P>***sigh***

NoMas, this may be as bad as it gets. <P>You're still standing...wounded maybe...but still standing.<P>Move toward what you want to feel...even if you have to inch your way along.<P>Are you on any medication? Maybe you should be. <P>Anyway, the point is, as bad and terrible as it is now...you are at least making your way through it.<P>Remember about Hope? It does not disappoint!