Resilent,<P> I have no idea, how to answer that question. But I will bounce a few things around and let you see what others say.<P>First, marriage is a commitment on both parties. So the one ingredient required is that both parties think the commitment will be up held. If they do, then the number of partners isn't really relavent. But that determination is very important. <P>By that I mean different people have different ways to reach this determination. Cultures where virginity is very very valued, use that, so a woman that has slept around will not be trusted to meet the commitment. One the other hand you could view it as sowing wild oats, and once someone is settled down they will uphold their commitments.<P>So it depends on the method of determination being made. I believe that other factors come into play, not just sexual activity when making this decision. For example is a person stable?, do they meet other commitments? , when did the sleeping around occur?, etc. <P>So I think that the answer is not really easy. I will say for my part, that I had a very enjoyable batchelorhood, and married at 31. I have been married 24 years and have never had an affair. So my view is that it would be true of women as well. I've known people who married as virgins and are divorced. You see that here on this board.<P>So the answer is expectation and how you determine peoples level of commitment. I will say, if a woman or a man has been through many serious relationships, that is not a good sign, never mind the sexual activity, but people do learn and grow. <P>So you are left with something that is not determined as a rule but on a gut level feeling between individuals. Always thought the virginity test was certainly a zeroth level test, but not necessarily useful for determining if you are marrying someone who will stick with you through thick and thin.<P>So the answer is a definite MAYBE. Heck I don't know.<P>JL

I can agree with Murphy on the companionship.<P> My wife kept renewing my Playboy subscription even when I said I didn't really want to keep receiving it. I have back issues of over a year I have not even taken out of the wrapper! Because of the trust and personal relationship we built up I can only fantasize about her. <P>Sometime ago in one of these discussions the topic of celebacy was discussed at length. Who is able to stay honost during the seperation with it? I have told my W how much I have grown through this period, but I just cannot think of anyone else.<P>She was great in the kitchen, always experimenting, but I doubt the plumber would take any of her lasagna for payment. I was always in charge of the noodles prep.<P>rrunrr<BR>

I was typing when you asked this...if a woman sleeps around...<P>WOW! What a loaded question. <P>I heard while in college from a friend that women want a man with some "experience". I never bought into that, really. <P>When I met my wife, because of her age, I was slightly impressed that she had remained a virgin. It became more important as the years went by, a feeling I felt compelled to share during our intimate times, but not every time.<P>rrunrr<BR><P>------------------<BR>Almost anything can be undone or forgiven.

Jo:<P>You asked about what a polyamorist is. If you go back and read the first post by "grandpabri", you'll see what polyamory is. <P>There are people who believe that humans are not made to have exclusive relationships, and that we limit ourselves by these limitations, and that having things like "group marriages" just means you're "sharing the love experience among more people."<P>I say, "Gag me with a spoon."<P>Most of the polyamorists I've known were sci-fi fandom types who couldn't get laid any other way. I met my H through such circles, if you can believe it, even though I don't like sci-fi. I had friends who do, and we were both on the periphery, I guess.<P>If you want to read about this stuff, do a Google search under "Loving More." This is an organization that preaches this stuff. My feeling on what I've read is that it SOUNDS logical, in a screwy way, and the practitioners are usually pretty bright, intellectual people, but there's a fallacy buried somewhere in there.<P>I hadn't planned to get involved with my H, and I knew he was in this uncommitted relationship with this other person, who also was involved with other people. But when the sex issue came up, I knew I wouldn't be able to deal with it, so I started to break off with him, saying that I couldn't proceed further without exclusivity, and he said, "That can be arranged."<P>This after saying for the last month that he was open to anything except a permanent commitment. <P>PS -- it was his idea for us to move in together and his idea for us to get married. Sounds like he had a little "fox and the grapes" thing going there. <P>You know what I always hated? What I call "the double standard after the fact." This was when a guy would want to go to bed, but after you did, he decided "Well, if she did it with me, she does it with everyone." <P>Kind of a no-win, don'tcha think?<P>I slept with a fair number of guys before I met my H. Most were in exclusive relationships, some weren't. Some I regret, some I don't. Would I do it again? No, but mostly a) because of diseases; and b) because casual sex only lets you feel less lonely for a little while (except vacation romances).<P>I was 28 when I met my H, and 31 when we married. We're the same age. He sowed his wild oats too, and he is NOT going through any kind of MLC. In fact, he seems quite happy and content these days.<P>So why Dragon Lady? Easy. I was occupied with other things, he was having a rough time at work, and she was there.

Jo,<P>Since I'm a woman I like to believe a man marries for love and companionship. <P>Murph,<P>Well, I'm insulted!! Here I am over in the other forum while you're over here trying to get lasagna from Jo! <P>Mitz

Jo/Daisy,<BR> Before I was married(if I can remember that far back),I dated a few girls who I guess you would call"easy".We actually had a lot of fun,but it wasn't just sex.But I never would of considered marrying one of them.I guess I would of felt they'd get bored fast,and would of screwed around on me.<BR> My stbx was the outgoing cheerleader type,but she didn't make the rounds,if you know what I mean.I truly believe getting older,and aging got to her in a big way.Probably happens to a lot of women,(didn't you say you had some gray hairs peeking out?).<P> Mitz/Jodie,<BR> Geez,can't a guy play the field?<BR> All I was trying to do was have a little lasagna,and chase Daisy around with a ShowerMassager! <BR> <BR> I,too,would settle for love and companionship,but life always seems to get more complicated than that.Ask TheStudent,she'll tell you. <P> ~~Murph

Hey Gang,<P>OK, odd man out again. I lived with Val for 7 years before we decided to marry. The sex was great! That's not why I married her. I loved this woman and wanted to spend the rest of my life with her. I still do.<P>Before I started to see her I was on a heroin overdose call that turned into a cardiac arrest and accidentally defibrillated myself with 200 joules. WOW, that hurt. It's no wonder dead people jump, it hurts like the dickens. Mr. Winky stood tall and proud for a week. <P>I was with three different women that week. That was sex, not love. I did care for them. Not enough to want to commit to a lifetime thou.<P>So, Medic says sex is very nice, but, not a foundation for a relationship or marriage.<P>I did not get married for the sex. I married for life and the love of my W.<P>------------------<BR>"It's not over till we say it's over! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? H*ll no!" Blutto...Animal House 1984<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic

Ah Medic,<P>You just put tears in my eyes. I wish to gawd my H would have wrote that about me.<P>Your wife is a very lucky woman. And it's a relief to know that men do feel somewhat the same about the who/why they married.<P>Thank you for your response.<P>Best,<BR>Jo

I think my H married me because that was the only way he'd "get any" from me.<G><P>Seriously, while I think that may be part of it, I also think that my refusal to have sex outside of marriage indicated to him that I was suitable wife material. Another thing is that his buddies were all getting married, and he didn't want to be left out of the loop.<P>He was very into recreational sex (and I think it didn't much matter with whom it was), so I really don't think he married me <B>just</B> for sex....except from me. I do know that he probably wouldn't have married someone who slept around.

Murph,<P>It's wierd you mention gray hairs, just getting ready to do a color job tonight.<P>Hey, is The Student around anymore? I never got a chance to meet him/her.<P>Psssssst ... don't tell Lora I told you Murph, but her H is making Cherry Beer in the garage tonight. <P>So we're all invited to Lora's for Lasagna and Beer.<P>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 09, 2000).]

Jo/Daisy,<BR> Cherry beer and lasagna,sounds good to me.Has she started on your insert,yet?<BR> <BR>What,you never met TheStudent?She's a very knowledgeable young lady who been hanging around the Divorce Board lately.She and I go way back,you know.We've had some very enlightning conversations.Her dad works at Boeing,too,so we're going out for Mocha's the next time she's in town. <P> Dyeing your hair?Are you going with Daisy Blond again?<BR> Have a good week! Stop by the giga-thread once in a while.<P> ~~Murph/BoeingBum

Rocky/Murph,<P>No, Lora is shurking her chores. And I really need that insert installed bef winter, too.<P>Was thinking of coloring hair orangish green. Maybe it'll wake up my fellow digit heads at work. That and a Lip Stud. <P>Orkely Dorkely about visiting the Mega Thread.<P>Peace,<BR>Jo

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sweetpea:<BR><B>I also think that my refusal to have sex outside of marriage indicated to him that I was suitable wife material.<P>He was very into recreational sex (and I think it didn't much matter with whom it was), so I really don't think he married me just</B> for sex<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It's weird, but for men, sex is the #1 emotional need, yet we fall in love with the women that initially withhold it from us. I guess it's from growing up learning that there were two types of women, those who "do" and those that you take home to meet "mama". It has to do with feeling that you can trust the "good girl", that she won't be out sleeping around on you, that you can trust her and build a life with her, while the "bad girl" was strictly for fun. I know that is how I looked at my W, she was the "good girl" that I took home to meet mama. She was the first girl that I dated that didn't just "give it up". That made her special in my eyes.<p>[This message has been edited by F A (edited July 10, 2000).]

Hey y'all,<P>Just my two cents worth thrown in the mix here:<P>It seems to me that the fact that approximately 80% of all marriages are affected by infidelity shows that there is plenty of sex available outside of the marriage bed. Sex is not the main reason that people get married. Heck, anybody with $50 can get sex.<P>HOWEVER, I will say this much. I had sex before my husband and I got married, but marital sex is much better because of the love and committment involved. At least I find it to be so.<P>Any man who would tell his wife that sex is the only reason men get married is just trying to justify his behavior and/or hurt his wife. Even if any guy believed that was the only reason to get married, he wouldn't say so if he was ANY kind of gentleman or if he was very smart.<P>Peppermint

Peppermint,<P>I think you hit it on the head. I still believe sex is the prime motivator in the relations between men and women. But You pointed out something I was trying to point out earlier. <P>An emotional connection with a person (spouse) makes the sex that much better and well worth getting married. <P>As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, if sex is good in a marriage, then other issues take top billing. However, remove sex from a marriage, and watch what happens to it. Some will survive but most won't. Of course as aging occurs this changes slightly.<P>But the original question do men marry for sex, I still think it is a yes. Not that sex isn't available other places, but not the feelings that come from a committed relationship: marriage.<P>No women in her right mind would tell a prospective husband, yes I love you and want to marry you but we will never have sex. I just don't think that would lead to many trips to the alter. <P>You could counter that no women would say yes I'll marry you but I don't love you, I just need you for the money, sex, and helping with my children. Yet, there have been a few women on this board who have done just that.<P>So like anything, it is subject to perception but mine is that sex is the GREAT motivator in the male/female dance of life.<P>This has been a very interesting topic. I suspect you will get many more answers with the new week upon us. <P>JL

"Sex without love is an empty experience, but as empty experiences go, it's one of the best"<P>- Woody Allen<P><BR>I didn't get married for sex. <P><BR>Slightly Sane<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I still believe sex is the prime motivator in the relations between men and women. An emotional connection with a person (spouse) makes the sex that much better and well worth getting married. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I believe that alot of the men on this board are in alot of pain because of being betrayed, therefore there are many, <B>not all</B>, but many that are in the self-rightous frame of mind right now, but I do believe that if many to look back on it now, I do believe that many would admit that sex was the primary, <B>not the only reason</B>, but the primary reason they got married. Maybe the next question that needs to be answered is how many men would have gotten married if they thought that the person that they had strong emotional ties to would never sleep with another man? I am a man and most of my friends are male, and believe me if I would have thought for one minute that I could continue to have sex with my current W without having to marry her, and felt that she would <B>never</B>have sex with another man, I seriously doubt that I would have gone down the alter. C'mon men, admit it, while it may not have been the <B>only</B> reason you said "I Do", you not wanting the person that you had an emotional attachment to and enjoyed sex with, to have sex with another man, the very fragile <B>"male ego"</B> pushed or at least nudged you down the aisle.<P><p>[This message has been edited by F A (edited July 10, 2000).]

As one of the few women who will readily admit to loving sex, and thinking it's pretty darned important in a marriage (my 2nd EN, my stbx's 1st) I would like to say this:<P>While I would prefer being married to the man I'm having it with, it was pretty nice anyway when I wasn't married. This isn't the 70's anymore, thank god (and yes, I still have my lava lamp too!) and it is not only NOT safe, but emotionally very confusing as well. <P>Is it a motivating factor for men? I betcha it is, but a few women, me included, loved the idea of being able to have it with the man I loved whenever and wherever we wanted... and frankly I was tired of "looking for love in all the wrong places". Sex was one big reason my stbx and I married, and frankly held us together (pun intended ) for years after the problems began. <P>Men, on that old EN Questionairre, where does it rate for you? That should answer how important it is.<P>

I think I sense a pattern here. Bottom line sex is important to most men. The promise of regular intimacy played a huge role in nudging most of us guys down the aisle. Is it the only thing we want? No! I know that I could not survive on a diet of only "wham bam thank you ma'am" sex. Times of emotional connection are needed too.<P>Is sex often a primary reason that men marry? I would say yes. Is it the only reason? No way!<P>Mud

peppermint,<BR> <BR> Where can you get sex for $50?<BR> Around here,it's at least $100!! <P> ~~Murph