Thanks, wassi . I'm a big fan of yours too...<P>I'm with c2bsane---phone a friend. 888-639-1639.

Well...I did callin this morning to get some info on the phone counseling. I'm open to it, but my wife just has a "bad taste" about MB since this is where I met the other person. So I will probably have to go another route on the counseling. That is proving to be a bit of a challenge rightnow for several reasons, but I know that was a big mistake back in Jan. when we did not get some help together.<P>When I wrote earlier: <P>"And I am doing my personal grieving and withdrawal in private unknown to her." ...<P>I really am having a hard time seeing what benefit there could be in her seeing or even being aware of my hurt over this seperation with this person. I mean...what is there for her to "see"...I cry off and on...get very quiet and withdrawn when I am by myself. It's not like I am going to talk about her to my wife. It gets kind of ackward when I think of my wife knowing that there is this struggle inside I am having with withdrawal.. <P>I mean, after all...everyone here says it's time to focus on my wife's needs and hurts, with which I agree. So how does her awareness of my 'other struggle' help matters any? <P>At one point, right after the disclosure,( where I confessed to her that the contact with this person never ended after it was 'suppose to' 6 months ago. She could not understand for the life of her why. When I shared some of the MB principals with her about these 'emotional addictions' and 'withdrawal' symptons, she scoffed and thought it was the most ridiculous thing she ever heard of. Obviously, she has never dealt with this personally.<P>She did state to me the other night, that she doesn't even know what kind of questions she should be asking anymore. I really didn't know how to respond to that one. <P>Anyway....last night was hopeful. I gave an account of it to 'looking4suz' who asked in another thread about "am I fooling myself".<P>Thanks again...this has been an insightful thread.

Nomas,<P>I think that perhaps once you and your W are in counseling, perhaps your counselor will be able to explain. Sometimes a third party helps immensely. I understand that my H had (has?) an emotional attachment to the OW. I understand why, too. I can understand it, and I can understand his withdrawal symptoms. When my H was living away (the period of abandonment, is my term for it), I made a friendship with a very nice gentleman whom I came to rely on emotionally when it came to helping me sort out the details of my marriage. I was very lucky in that as soon as I detected a twinge of romance/possessiveness/sexual innuendo, I *made* myself end it. I literally forced myself. Yes, I wanted his friendship ... but at what price? If I wanted my H to come back to be, and if I wanted our relationship to be whole again, I could not play tit for tat. But oh, I wanted to. So I do understand that need.<P>Give your wife time. This is what I told my H about the male friend I made: I explained that I was very sad about the state of our marriage. I told him that this man listened to me, and that made me feel special. I told my H that I realized now that I had no right to confide in a third party. I also told him that the male friend had no right trying to take things to the next level. But what really seemed to work, I suppose (and which was the truth), was that I told my H that I no longer had any respect for this male friend *because* he tried to intrude. I told my H that it was *he* that I respected and loved, and that the male friend was just there because I needed someone to cry to about my problems. This was pretty much the truth - it was like an addiction, having that sympathetic ear all of the time. But I never used the word addiction, and I never let my H know that at the time, I felt as though I *could* truly love this male friend, given the right circumstances. That is just TMI (too much information). I told my H instead that I deluded myself about my own feelings (true), which were borne out of the fact that this guy happened to be around when I needed someone to cry to (true) and that he could have been anyone, that he was no one special (true). <P>Maybe if you put it in easier terms, not using the words "addiction" or "need," your wife might understand better. I think this can be explained - you just need to know the right words!<P>belld

NoMas:<P>You should make an appointment for the counseling for yourself (here at MB). I wouldn't be surprised if Steve (or Jenn) told you not to come to these boards for a while.<P>Immediately start the phone counseling. That doesn't mean that you can't look for additional couples counseling, but I think you'd benefit tremendously from a few sessions very soon.

Hi NoMas...<BR>I'm glad to see you are being honest with your wife.<P>I know I'm joing this late, but do take the advice to talk to your wife about what she wants to know--not everyone wants the same level of detail. Maybe even have her write down questions and think it over a day or two before she gives them to you. Whatever she asks, answer honestly, tho.<P>I would second K's advice to use the MB counseling for yourself, even if your wife won't participate.<P>you are in my prayers.<P>Kathi

NoMas,<P>I have a plane to catch, but wanted to reply to you.<P>I too am a big fan of the counselling, Jenn saved us.<P>Remember the thread where I shared my story with you? It was some time ago.<P>You were impressed with the support I gave my h, but I don't think I was that special in that respect.<P>He gave me the opportunity by being TOTALLY honest in whatever I asked as Jennifer told him to. It WAS painful for me to allow him to cry on my shoulder over her, but it was healing too. Remember the story?<P>I questioned EVERYTHING. Besides the reasons already cited, I wanted to know what he got from her that I could/did not give him. I also had almost two years of my life to rewrite and wanted to know dates and times. I wandered what had been real in my life??<P>Being lied to by someone so close to you makes you need to recast that timeframe into reality as it really was.<P>Think about it, you're coming along, but the first rule of recovery is TOTAL HONESTY starting NOW.<P>The ONLY details I wish I had not gotten (mostly didn't even ask for) were sexual. They have left images in my mind. But I needed all the facts aside from that.

NoMas,<BR> <BR>Upon my discovery of his affair and our decision to rebuild our marriage, I believe I probably had a million questions. And much to my H's dismay, over the course of our recovery I believe I have probably asked all of them.<P>What worked best for both of us was for me to write them down. I listed the questions as I thought of them and at some predesignated time, when we were home alone with no distractions, we talked and he answered as best as he could. As he answered each question, I'd mark that off, never to be asked again. The reasons for this was because if I just asked questions as I thought of them, I'd be asking each and every 10 minutes, since at the beginning, I thought about the affair 24/7. Also, to mark them off meant we'd made headway and THAT particular question would never be asked again. Gave him great incentive to complete as many answers as he could, hoping I'd eventually run out of questions. Well, I did. And I had to know EVERY detail.<P>My reason for wanting every detail was not morbid. I felt as though I'd been left out of a very significant period of his life. There were places he'd been, experiences he'd had during the course of our marriage that were a secret from me. And I felt if we had any chance to survive this ordeal, we had to have NO secrets from one another. NONE. <P>Was it painful? Yes, sometimes, but nothing worse than the original pain of knowing he'd been unfaithful. Nothing could equal that pain. <P>Be honest with her, and tell her the truth, no matter how painful you think it may be. She has already been hurt enough. Don't hurt her worse by lying or omitting truths. Let her ask. She'll let you know what she needs to hear.

Nerlycrzy,<P>That is a brilliant idea -writing the questions down, having him answer them, and then never asking again.<P>I like that idea, alot. I might suggest it, if my H and I go into counseling. I feel the same way as you - I feel cut off from a significant portion of my H's life. I want to "dissolve" the affair completely, and leave no secrets between us.<P>belld