NB,<P>So once you had the affair after his affairs, he still felt the need to "one up" <BR>you? <P>

Leilana,<P>No, I don't think he was thinking "one up"... he never thought his original three affairs were affairs because he "only" had oral/kissing/emotional stuff going on. No intercourse. Because I slept with the man (once, realized my mistake and ended it) he felt it should not be confused with his daliances... he thought this: "well, if she can screw this guy, I might as well find out what it's like to screw another woman". He was a virgin when we married, which didn't help matters on that front.<P>As an aside, my affair was the biggest mistake of my life- and I've made many . The year following was one of floundering and making even more mistakes, some of which I am still dealing with today. I am not a good marriage-builder, and I've become quite jaded with the whole process. But, I believe in marriage, I believe in fidelity, and I believe in total honesty. My marriage didn't work, but that doesn't mean that either my stbx or me is a bad person. We just pushed way too much water under that proverbial bridge.<P>Although my affair was not as retaliation, I did think to myself at the time of the first kiss: "This is what David felt with those women long ago"... so I do understand the concept of retaliation affairs. All I can say is that there is nothing positive to come from it. The person who goes there will feel like trash, and hate what they have become. Taht's the point I wanted to make.<P>NB

NB,<P>1)How did your H find out about your A? You told him? Or did you try to keep it a secret?<P>2)What do you think the outcome would have been if he never found out?<P>3)Did you feel like "trash" before your H found out about you and OM? Exactly when did your start to see your A as a horrible mistake?<P>Just trying to pick your brain/experience for those of us teetering on that dangerous fence. <P>And I don't think of you as trash at all, I think you're a treasure! Thanks, Hon for all your honest responses. I think it's so wonderful of you to try and help us out. <P>

Hi Leilana,<P>Okay, here are your answers:<P><B>1)How did your H find out about your A? You told him? Or did you try to keep it a secret?</B><P>I was about as obvious as a freight train... yes, I tried to keep a secret for about a month, although I did keep telling him "something" was wrong and I didn't know what it was. I cried all the time. I, who am normally very chatty, stopped talking. I told him when the OM first kissed me about two days after it happened, which broke his heart. I felt bad, but not bad enough... because I just had to finish it through by sleeping with him. I told my H about that on the very day it happened. <P><B>2)What do you think the outcome would have been if he never found out?</B><P>I would still be married but in an insane assylum... I don't believe you can keep it a secret and thrive. I can't keep my mouth shut and as much as I poo-poo'd the idea of total honesty for awhile, the bottom line to me is that I think you have to tell the truth or you can't heal. The marriage might be 'okay', but you won't be. You just can't keep a secret like that without some reprocussions.<P><B>3)Did you feel like "trash" before your H found out about you and OM? Exactly when did your start to see your A as a horrible mistake?</B><P>This is my life story - I have always felt like trash. I was a promiscuous older teenager in the 70's, and my H rescued me from certain death, I'm sure of it. I hated myself for years, but eventually felt that God had forgiven me, so I forgave myself for my lifestyle before marriage. When the OM came to me, I felt special, but still trashy. My H called me a whore and every other name he could think of upon discovery, and frankly, I felt like one. Plus, I've had other people I've told about my life over the last year and a half call me the same. I am not a whore, and it's taken me this whole year to realize that. I did make some terrible decisions but I no longer feel like trash.<P>I began to see the affair as a horrible mistake the moment I slept with the OM. I cried in the hotel room and felt completely and utterly defiled. He got up and cleaned off and drove me home. I went to my bedroom, told the kids to leave me alone, and I stood in the shower for two hours and cried. I used every cleanser known and tried to "clean" myself. I prayed. It was awful. Then I got very sick, and I thought I'd contracted a STD. I was back and forth to the doctors, and in the end, it was determined that the stress of the whole thing caused painful symptoms. I didn't get an STD, but I might as well have - I wanted to be punished.<P>Re:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And I don't think of you as trash at all, I think you're a treasure! Thanks, Hon for all your honest responses. I think it's so wonderful of you to try and help us out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thank you for the compliment, but I sure don't feel much like a treasure. I have done some really stupid things over the last 18 months that I won't even list here... it's been one hell of a ride, and the sad thing is that I WAS DRIVING... you'd think I'd have turned around! If I can help someone really think before they do it, then I'm happy to do it. <P>Take Care,<BR>NB <BR>

Vee!! <P>I'm so sorry I never thanked you for your input--it got past me somehow. Your story broke my heart but I'm so glad to hear of someone in recovery despite the "bilateral" affairs. Best of luck to you. Recovery doesn't need to be made any harder than it already is! I'll be watching for your updates and praying for you. <P>Funny how no men appear to be responding here. <P>NB,<P>One more question before you go, then I promise to leave you alone! What would you have done to prevent yourself from making that mistake? Where could you have drawn that line? Would you say never to confide in a male friend? In the face of tempation what are some things you can do? Prayer, counseling, a pint of haagan daas--WHAT?! <P>And Lapiene,<P>I'm still waiting for YOUR list!<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Leilana (edited August 04, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>One more question before you go, then I promise to leave you alone! What would you have done to prevent yourself from making that mistake? Where could you have drawn that line? Would you say never to confide in a male friend? In the face of tempation what are some things you can do? Prayer, counseling, a pint of haagan daas--WHAT?! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>Hey, that's four questions! <P>I never 'confided' in the OM, as I had never really realized how very unhappy I had become in my marriage. What I did was almost worse, I think. I am flirty by nature, and so is he... to make matters worse, we worked (and still do, by the way) together, in the same office. One day, we were emailing back and forth, just fooling around, and one thing led to another, still just in fun it seemed... but it crossed a line... and then he came to me and said he had 'feelings' for me, thought he was 'in love'... <P>What I do differently NOW, after the fact, is to not be overly friendly, not look deeply into any man's eyes, and try not to be overly flirty or sexual. I never wore tight clothes, low cut shirts or short skirts because I was very heavy for a long time. I did begin to dress a bit more to show my shape when I lost weight, and I think that had something to do with it - I liked the attention. <P>In the face of temptation I have only one piece of advice - <B>RUN</B>. Fast! And don't look back... like Lot's wife, it's the looking back that kills you. At first I said no to the OM, but in the giving it a second look... it began to look attractive to me.<P>One other thing, about prayer, counseling and haagan daas... all of them work to a certain extent... but God cannot help if you don't give Him the opportunity, counseling is only as good as you allow it to be, and haagan daas, though wonderful, just gets you fat... no, the answer lies within yourself, I think. And I am a Christian believer, though woefully far from God at this moment. God won't keep you from making bad decisions, but He will be with you to pick you up after you have.<P>I appreciate the opportunity to write my thoughts to you. I have stayed away from here quite a lot, mostly because my H and I are divorcing, but also partly because of this new man I am seeing as well. Things are not going well for me, and I believe it has been of my own making. This dialogue has helped me to put into perspective some thoughts that have been floating around in my head. Thank you Leilana.<P>~Sheryl <P>

Leilana - <BR>You're welcome. This is a very hard road to travel. I'd have to say it's definetly 'the road less traveled by', and I surely hope my ending will be a happy one.<P>NB - I toyed with the idea of having an EA when I realized that my H wasn't paying much attention to me (he was in the midst of his own PA, so no wonder), but I thought what good would that do? So I understand how that 'one-up' thing caused more harm than good. <P>I can't stress enough the problems with retaliation/revenge affairs. The pain from the first is unbearable enough, so why add another. My heart goes out to the BS. I knew what he must be feeling because his face gives him away, but I never really understood the struggle of trust. For me, trust is central to my relationship, without it, I question everything. It's almost 2 months after d-day and I can't or maybe won't allow myself the ability to trust him.<P>Stuff like that just makes recovery even harder. <P>Be strong everyone! <P>Vee

NB,<P>It's good to hear you, hon. It has been awhile.<P>If there is one thing we have done right as a couple since d-day is to talk about EVERYTHING. I tell him when I feel attracted to another man. I think it's good for him to be reminded that I too feel vulnerable.<P>And my h told me the very same thing that NB is saying. Given my personality, beliefs, it would crush ME. Never mind what it would do to our marriage. I would feel so guilty, it would send me into a downward spiral. And I know it is true. I believe I too would cry if I crossed the line.<P>When I first learned that he had two affairs in the last two years (each 4 to 6 months), I just couldn't understand why HE did not react this way. Why he did not come running to me and confess all the first time, that he could go back again and again (and it was full PA). That he could be such a fake at home and church.<P>Now, I have a question for y'all. Is it a difference in morals (we do share the same beliefs) or personality?

Schizzo,<BR>I'm a Christian, I believe in right and wrong, and I think part of what influenced<BR>me to cross the line was simply being tired of doing right and my H still not being the husband I needed. At that point Satan sifted me like wheat and found my weak spot--wanting to be loved like my H appeared to have loved the OW.<P>Let me repeat something I said above: My feelings for the OM, along with all the regular BS trust/pain issues, in addition to giving my H trust issues about me nearly destroyed the possibility of reconciliation.<P>That is the chance that you take with an affair--you'll lose all those lovebank unit you've worked so hard to deposit and it becomes "all" your fault the marriage ends (not true, but it felt that way for me).<P>I get the feeling some of you don't want to be talked out of pursuing an affair. And I know that feeling.<P>Avoiding temptation:<BR>don't be alone with the opposite sex<BR>don't drink alcohol "<BR>don't confide "<BR>don't spend a lot of time "<P><BR>BS are highlighted with a big ole VULNERABLE target and there are people out there that thrive on needy people. And you WON'T necessarily be able to determine who they are. If someone is willing to pursue a married person...you've got to wonder why, what issues make them find a legally unavailable person appealing. How many of us respect our spouse's OP?<P>NB--I think about you a lot. I wish you well.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

Hi Schizzo , Hi Lor ,<P>Thanks for the thoughts and well wishes. <P>I lurk a bit, and this topic caught my attention for obvious reasons. <P>I am truly at a time of my life where great changes are around the bend. I do not trust myself to make proper choices, so I'm mulling, waffling, and basically trying to decide my next course of action. One thing I know for sure is that I don't ever want to be put in a position where loving someone causes me pain... that didn't come out quite right, because my partner's choices could hurt me, but I'm saying that *I* won't cause the pain to myself on purpose. That's what an affair is, I think.<P>Schizzo, as far as morals... I am a born-again Christian, and I think my morals were intact for a long, long time. It's amazing what you can tell yourself to make a poor choice okay. I told myself that I deserved to be loved and cherished, and indeed I did deserve it... just not at the expense of throwing away what I knew to be right. I have alluded to the fact that the last year has been one of a succession of poor choices, some of which I am dealing with today. I can't begin to justify some of what I've done, so I won't try. Emotions and vulnerablity have a way of taking over the most sane mind. As I said above, I'm seeing someone else ~ and indeed am in love with him. Is it real, or is it a fantasy? I'm not sure I could tell the difference right now. He is in the same position as I am, in the middle of a divorce, and his is very, very messy. Do I want to be here emotionally? No. But I fell in love. See, I am very vulnerable still, and I hate that about me. I'm trying to cut myself some slack, but it isn't easy.<P>I honestly feel, as I said above, that my marriage is over because David and I both wanted to be loved desperately, and couldn't see what we *could have* had until it was too late. I say "could have" because it truly is too late for us. I will never be one of those people who say my marriage was a mistake... it was not. But to stay in it now would be.<P>Again, thank you for caring...<P>~Sheryl<BR>