Have a question about Addiction to Pornography.<P>I have noticed there seems to be a certain percentage of WS's that are male in gender that along with an affair were/are also experiencing a Sexual Addiction to Porn. My H is one.<P>Whether it be a byproduct or not, why do we not see as many women WS's also showing this addiction along with their affair? Is it just not being reported or discovered?<P>And if it is primarily a male addiction that accompanies an affair, why only male? Does that in itself say something about the affairs catalyst or attraction to the OP? Meaning it's not really love.<P>Jo<P>------------------<BR>Josie_Res@Hotmail.com<P>"Remain flexible like a reed, as opposed to an oak which can snap in the wind"<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 11, 2000).]

Oh yeah, you knew darn well that I would respond to this one. <P>My ol boy has tons of nasty stuff on his computer. It seems that after he went overseas to his new duty station (OW wasn't there, neither was I) all he did for two months was sit on the PC and search the net for porn. He did specialed searches for "older women" (his girlfriend was "older") and big boobs/big butt (that would be me) and downloaded movies and other such garbage. I even found search for prostitutes in his area. I hope to God that he did not follow through with this prostitute search. <P>I also found a "list of providers," a whole bunch of women that would. . .I don't know. I don't understand the concept and the methods behind cybersex. I don't know how it's done.<P>Once or twice, before the affair, I would catch him with a dirty picture and he would act remorseful. And he would try to dismiss it with a laugh. But now, it is like a raging fever. He's gone crazy on the stuff.<P>I am not one who is stimulated by porn. Sure, I have looked at it just for the sake of seeing what my husband is looking at, but too much of it is shocking. I can't imagine any of it to be fulfilling.<P>I think these guys are trying to relive their sexual experiences over and over again through visualization.<P>Maybe some of these men should reply--this thread needs a man's insight. Does sex mean love? Does love mean sex? I figured sex to be complimentary to love. Some guys see love being complimentary to sex. I guess if we knew how some men think, a lot of us would not be here tonight.

My husband is a Sex Addict and his affair was with someone he met on one of the sex chat sites. <P>I think the women are as involved - the woman he met was also married - she was there participating and from my husbands explanation - with several men and women - regularly - he told me that to somehow make it not such a big deal I guess - I think of her as a Cyberslut, since she wasn't charging - I wouldn't call her a whore - she was just givin it away to interested parties - yuck!<P>My husbands therapist just recommended he read a book called Out of the Shadows by Patrick J. Carnes. I did a search on Amazon and found several books by him. I ordered a couple. They are for partners of sex addicts and the sex addicts themselves - my husband is actually going to read it - wow! maybe we are making progress.......<P>J

The book sounds great--did you get a chance to look at it yet?<P>The porn stuff bothers me almost as much as the affair. I find it quite disturbing.

I just ordered it, but because my husband doesn't read books - I ordered the audio - something for him to listen to on his commute to work... other then Howard Stern. <P>I plan to listen to it too and I bought one other listed - I'll post once I have had a chance to read it. <P>We, the therapist and I, have just 'weaned' my husband away from it - it is terrible addicting - he was spending almost all weekend with it, plus any available moment in the day. Between my therapist and I - we have- over 7 months - taken all of the sites away - he (my husband) is just now coming around to understanding that it was an addiction - though he doesn't buy into it completely yet. <P>His therapist keeps telling me it will take quite a bit more time to get through - I like this guy - we are working together to 'wake up' my husband to see the problem and deal with it. Unfortunately, it is exactly like alcoholism and drugs. <P>I am not an addictive person - so it is hard for me sometimes to be understanding, but we are trying to work through it and our counselor is very helpful. <P>Maybe after my husband 'hears' the book - he will understand himself a bit better. He doesn't know why he does the things he does, and I believe that. I hope the book helps a bit, anyway - I will post a review.<P>J

I have a theory.<P>In "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus", John Gray talks about how men view physical intimacy differently. For women (generally), emotional intimacy leads to a desire for sex; for men (generally), sex leads to a greater emotional attachment to their partner (at least until they fall asleep ).<P>Now that I look at it, this doesn't explain the addiction part, but, it does explain why men are more susceptible than women.<P>Hope this helps.<P>Steve

I have to agree with Steve (Beerman)<P>It's a Mars & Venus thing.<P>My H lived in fear of getting a computer installed in his office. Never came near ours here at home. Thinks e-mail is downright communistic! Well, he got the word that they would be giving him a computer at work, so I decided to give him a lesson here at home about how, at least, to turn the darn things on!<P>I sat down patiently with H, showed him how to turn on the computer, how to get the Yahoo home page up, and how to do a search.<P>H got it! EUREKA.<P>He decided to do his first ever search.<P>He pecked out his first search word ever...<P>P...O...R...N<P>What else can I say?<P>allison

Allison--<P>I laughed out loud with your reply to this thread.<P>Sex and porn addictions are NOT funny, don't anyone get me wrong. But you have an obvious flair for word pictures! Just wanted to express my appreciation. <P>Laura

LOL Lucks,<P>Thanks for the very nice compliment.<P>I had a few too many rum and cokes last night, so was feeling ...um...creative I guess.<P>You made my day <P>allison

I agree with the mars and venus thing also. I don't think my H currently has a porn addiction, but I do think that he confuses the sexual intimacy with the emotional one.<P>It's almost as if he imprints on the one with whom he is having sex with (and it ain't me) and is indifferent with everyone else (that would be me.)

Just thought I might offer this perspective.<P>Most men won't/can't look at porn with being aroused. There is the visual 'turn on'. The next obvious step would be to 'relieve' the sexual arousal, either through mastruabation or sexual involvement with another person. <BR>(I might add that it is unfortunate when an unsuspecting wife becomes the 'target of release' for the aroused husband/man....but that is another subject matter)<P>But, either way, when a man ejaculates, there is a release of chemicals...dopamine...or maybe it is seratonin, not sure, that brings great pleasure and relief to the body/mind. You may already know that anti-depressants are designed to enhance the same chemicals in the body.<P>The porn would not be very fullfilling or addictive if not for the release of the experience of ejaculation. <P>So...that may provoke more questions...but it is something to ponder. By the way, after a man ejaculates...there will be some sense of 'shame' or 'guilt along with somewhat of an ability to 'think straight' and logically again. And a lot of guys will tell you that they won't do that again..and really mean it...until...the need for that 'feeling-experience' comes back.<P>

Thanks, Lighthouse,<P>You shed some "light" on sexual addiction in affairs. Maybe it's like porn, only it's real life--the man can experience a climax. That's why it's so fulfulling. And thus, the man emotionally imprints on his sexual partner--his mistress--because of the intense physical pleasure. Plus the fact that he is getting a new and different sex partner rather than his wife, it makes the sex all the more invigorating.<P>A question--do you think that a preoccupation with porn preceeds an affair? I am sure that it does. But then again, I am not a guy and I cannot think like a guy.

re: question about 'which comes first...affair or porn?"<P>I think in some cases....porn can be a substitute for the affair...because certain 'needs' are being 'met' to some degree without the extra baggage that comes with getting tied up with another person.<P>I can also see where affairs open the door to other areas where one has not ventured. I would think it could go both ways...probably diverse replies on that one.

Great discussion for another Sat. night that I am alone.<P>Lighthouse, I believe you are right about the "brain" chemical release. I think it is serotonin also. Exercise does the same thing.<P>When you are depressed you try to do anything to release yourself from the depression.<P>Interesting... that the physical intimacy between my H and I was what suffered first when he returned from the trip. In his obsession (possession) of OP.. physical intimacy was just not the same. I mentioned the no kissing.. but there were other more telling signs. Almost like he was holding out.<P>In the EA.. the daily contact with OP and the ensuing obsession with being physical with her.. was the drug.<P>Now that there is a PA I'm wondering if the changes I am seeing in him... more depressed are because he switched from the thoughts and daily contact being the relief to the actual act. Bottom line is ... he has to get to the source of his depression.<P>

tootrusting....<P>If I have followed your story correctly, isn't your husband the doctor who does relief trips or something with the woman he got involved with? <BR> Regarding the progression of the 'addiction'...think about how someone starts out with small time drugs...alcohol...some weed....each experience providing a 'new high'. But after awhile...the effect wears off...and the desire for a more stronger 'high just increases. <P>Not everyone follows this path, but many do progress to stronger and stronger drugs...until they no longer enjoy the thrill of them...they just sadly become a slave to them. The obvious end is an overdose which can kill them completely.<P>You like to think that they can be helped before reaching this point. I would guess that someone in your position can only ask how long you are willing to wait until the 'thrill' wears off...and they try to find their way home. IF you don't mind me asking, was your husband married before he married you?<P>I think you are correct about the depression being a source for him seeking after something to alleviate it. I would have to think that the guilt of what he has done will only compound his depression...which will cause him to seek even a stronger 'high'.<P>May God give you the grace...to be still, fear not...and see the salvation of the Lord.<P>

Lighthouse, Yes, my h is an MD. He has been actually a very compasionate one. I was always amazed at his capacity for getting up in the middle of the night to talk for long hours with his patients that have pain.<P>He was always also a compasionate h and father.<P>The OP has her own problems and my H is very naive. He basically sold his soul to the devil and I actually saw some of it comeing but supported her when people would comment on her. <P>The mission trip is really to a place that she has lived (she is the daughter of missionaries) and where she has friends. She controls this like shecontrols everything.<P>My H went through a stressful time at work and his giver definately gave out. she is just an opportunist.<P>And yes, he was married before. Young, to a fellow medical student who supposedly didn't want kids.. They grew apart when during their residency they had to live about 500 miles apart. My H is a romantic, and didn't (does not) know how "in love" differs from love. I think I knew but didn't realize many other MB principals. I guess, fool that I am, I expected highs and lows... ( H and I did not have really bad lows... just the norm with 3 kidsz)<P>I guess the question is whether I love him enough to stand by him, or love him enough to let him go. Either way, I do love him.<P>What you suggested re: addiction, drugs, and the need for a high is what both the kids counselor and the marraige counselor told me re: my H... It is another reason I stepped back. I am not his problem. <p>[This message has been edited by tootrusting (edited August 12, 2000).]

Lighthouse,<P>You asked TT if her H was married before. Can I ask where you were going with that question? I'm wondering how it would relate to her H's A or addiction. It's very interesting to me.<P>Thanks,<BR>Jo

Jo, she may wonder if I was an addiction. It is something I have been asking myself also.<P>With my H's first wife, he did not have an affair, but they were separated for about 1 year due to separate residencies. He was unhappy in his and switching.. (what a change for him eh??) From all accounts (family and friends) they fought a lot and she was kindof a control freak (not unlike this OP). She apparently didn't want kids.<P>I met him while he was getting a D. He seemed really upset by the D. But he did all the same things he is doing now.. Playing hockey...with me going and watching him just like OP now. He was doing different things and exercising. And he was infatuated with me.<P>We did date 2 years before we married. He called me all the time to check in. It was almost like I was his life line.<P>Like I said...the past two years have been stressful and I have not always been wonderful on the phone when he would call 4 x a day... I mean I was dealing with 3 small kids.<P>I think H is a romantic. I don't think he understands the feelings of In love vs. love. I know I have learned a lot since this happened.<P>Then, like I said...he imprints on the one he is physical with and the rest of us are just "others"<P>It's all underlying unhappiness... and he has to figure that out himself.<P>I know he will regret missing out on his kids. He just is unwilling to get away from what is feeling good to him right now.<P>You know I just think I believed in him more than he believed in himself.

I don't mean to suggest that being previously married would be the cause of the problems here. But we are designed in such a way by God that when there is a union of two people, be it marriage, or by sexual relations, that there is a 'bonding' that takes place in a spiritual sense. And when that union is broken, and a new union takes place, often times, it will be difficult to have a good 'connection' unless some things are taken care of.<P>I've seen the illustration before where a piece of masking tape is taken off a roll, placed on a table, then removed, and placed on a door, then removed, and so on... After awhile, the tape loses it's ability to 'bond'. Interestingly, a part of it's bonding agent is left everywhere it was applied.<P>When two people have sexual relations, like it or not, they leave a part of them with that person. In the case of a previous marriage, after a divorce, there is often difficulty in the second marriage 'bonding' in a secure way. Not all the time, but think about what happens when you replace a part on a car engine, such as a water pump. If the old gasket is not completely scraped clean, you will not get a very good seal when placing the new pump in position.<P>I'm not suggesting that second marriages cannot work, but as we know, God hates divorce. He did not put a nice perforated line in the marriage union so that just in case things did not work out, you could make a nice clean break of it. Divorce tears lives apart, regardless of the reasons. <P>Most people come into a second marriage with 'baggage' or old 'gasket parts' still sticking. The 'gap' can lead to other problems...confusion...depression, and such. The porn/affair can simply be a diversion or temporary retreat. In other cases, from what I read here, some very genuine and strong attatchments can be developed. May not be right, but it happens.<P>And, just to throw something into the mix here, men may have a thing with porn, but why are more women wrapped up with soap operas and romance novels than men? ?<P>I don't mean to sound like I know what is going on with tootrusting's husband. I just feel for them all...because they are all obviously in much pain. <P><p>[This message has been edited by lighthouse (edited August 13, 2000).]

You mean SOME women get wrapped up in romance novels and soap operas--I HATE that kind of stuff!!! I don't think that I have watched a soap opera in 20 years. As far as romance novels, it's gotta be REALLY good to be interesting to me. I think I'm kind of different in that way. I wasn't a little girl who played house and dolls--I was outside on my bike with the dudes. <P>But anyways, I can answer your question from a woman's point of view, although other women may beg to differ: women are less stimulated, obviously, from visual sensations and are more interested in the conversation that leads them to sexuality. They wanted to feel loved, told that they are special, to feel secure, appreciated, wanted, needed. They want to know that a guy will never leave them, will always protect them. I guess that's what they call "romance." I know, that seems elementary, but the communication doesn't seem to happen a lot of the time.<P>That seems sooooo hard for guys to understand--it's the conversation.<P><BR>That's why some wives might stray, I think. They feel shortchanged, because they might be giving it, but they don't don't get a vote of thanks. They don't feel appreciated, wanted, needed or even loved, yet they are doing all they can to please their man. In a woman's psyche, that's being "used," even if to the guy, it seems like an even exchange (sex for sex, I got mine, now you get yours.)<P> It's the expression of commitment. <BR>That's the fastest way to get a girl hot--to tell her how much in love you are with her and that she's the only one for you (it helps to back that up with your actions, of course.)<P>That business they call foreplay? Well, that's important. To be held, cuddled, and kissed--not groped and grabbed, and then a few minutes later listen to him snore or watch football in the livingroom.<P>But you know all that. That's why women like romance novels--it's the ideal situation of being wooed and swept of your feet.<P>So, how is it then that a guy can generate "tales of commitment" to his other lady when he doesn't mean it, or is it that he is just shooting off his mouth in the heat of the moment? But he seems to have a hard time pampering his wife with conversation?<P>It seems that so many Ow's are hanging on because they are told that they are the only ones that make the man happy, that he's "really in love with her." I know that was the case for my husband's OW. She had this idea that I did nothing for him. That's one of the issues that hurts the most. She was thinking that because he sweet-talked her. Was that just because he was "gettin' some?"<P>