<BR>I wanted to expound on your claim that your wife doesn't divorce because she doesn't want to be an "unbeliever".<P>Where do you GET this theology of yours anyway? Don't you realize that there will INDEED be divorced people in heaven? Divorce is NOT the unforgiveable sin .... God said He can AND WILL forgive all sins .... except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. You KNOW that's Bibicial.<P>Thankfully over the past few months the ONE thing that I've realized is that if I get a divorce I will NOT be doomed to hell. You cannot show me that anywhere in the Bible. Period.<P>Weak Christian? Yes. Weak Faith? Yes. Guilty as charged. I don't have the threshhold for pain that you do. I know that comes from God alone, but I'm tapped out. Long-suffering isn't one of the fruits I am very good with.<P>I'm not perfect ... just forgiven.

So you are going to go through with the divorce? Sorry it came to that Maya, I was hoping and praying that you would have a successful and happy marriage. You certainly have gone through enough to deserve one.....

Not to get into a theological debate here Maya, but because God forgives sin is not justification to sin.<P>Sure we are all weak, but as long as we are doing SOMETHING about God, we are in the race. It's when we forget about Him totally that we get in trouble.<P>I'm glad to see you put "if" you get a divorce.<P>How ya' been lately?<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Maya, are you divorced? No. So how can you be forgiven for something you haven't done? <P>How are you doing anyway? Staying on the meds? Still seeing the counselor? Hope your feeling better. See ya.<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.<P>

Holy Cow!<P>No, I'm not divorced, not seeking divorce, but very much considering separation.<P>Yes, I'm still seeing the couselor.<BR>Yes, I'm still on drugs.<BR>Yes, I know that forgiveness isn't a justification to sin. But when I've come to the end of my rope (which is unraveling fast, thank you very much) and cannot "try" any longer, I KNOW that I'm not doomed to hell because I just couldn't get past this ....<P>I'm not the tough hard shell die hard that you guys are .... I don't have unlimited patience or strength for this. Something's gotta give or I'm gonna kill myself.

Actually, ProfessorG, I might understand WHY your wife isn't willing to return if you're doing the holier than thou thing to her also. Being preachy and legalistic isn't gonna make her come running home.<P>My H has done that to me b/4 ... it's a major Lovebuster!

My H can be that way too Maya, and it is totally annoying and a lovebuster to boot.<P>I say this, don't bother with trying to argue over this point, just take care of <B>you</B>. God knows your heart. I truly believe that. <P>Love to you... ~Sheryl

Maya,<BR>I only posted why she refuses to divorce me. I was not making a statement that she would go to hell. She refuses to leave because that is a major sticking point for her. She really is a nice lady but thoroughly confused about what a truly loving person is.<P>I know divorced people are forgiven once they get their relationship right with God. My grandfather was a prime example. He was saved right before he died which was at 76.<P>PLEASE understand that I was not saying that she is required to stay with me because it would make her an unbeliever though technically it would because of what is in 1 Cor. 7. We discussed this after her first affair. She asked me why I wouldn't divorce her. I told her I did not have a hard heart towards her. She has to be right with God and she knows that if she left that she would be at odds with Him moreso than where she is right now. Divorcing me would only add to her anguish as she sees it. This is purely speculation on my part because she won't confirm or deny that what I say is the case.<P>I am sorry I did not expand that to make that clear. I am not judging my W. I love her enough that if she were to be sent to hell that I would go in her place so that she could spend eternnity with Him. I want her to have eternal joy.<P>MONDO HUG!!!!!<P>The other reason she won't leave is that she is afraid that I would get custody of our children. When the topic first surfaced, I told her that I would fight for custody because I want OUR boys to be better men than me. The only way for that to have a higher probability of occuring ns for them to be in an environment where that is being portrayed.<BR>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>[This message has been edited by professorg (edited December 08, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by professorg (edited December 08, 1999).]

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't realize it was HER hang-up. I'm sorry.<BR>

Professor G: I love my W with all my being as well but would not give up my place in heaven for her. No one should.<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.<P>

Paul,<BR>You're right. Besides I feel that it is impossible, but I love her that much that I would do that because I know all of what she has gone through. The decisions that she has made were primarily related to her lack of ability to deal with stressful situations.<P>I have disagreed with her in a manner that resembled what she experienced in childhood which explains many things. I wish I had this klnowledge when we first got married. It didn't surface until about 8.5 years. I didn't understand it then. I do now.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Maya,<P>Never argue religion, you will never "win"...<P>Rob, you're <B>such</B> a good guy, but sometimes seem a bit offputting. <P>I am a believer, and was a part of a fundamental Baptist church for years. Yes, we did door-to-door soul-winning, and yes, I believed it worked - at the time. I now believe you can "catch more bees with honey" and realize that being overly-zealous can push people away. Just a thought, okay?<P>~Sheryl

Sheryl,<BR>Thank you for the compliment. I give God all the glory, honor, and praise for that.<P>I don't mean to be off putting. I guess that is the obtuse way in which I think. It drives most people crazy. It is even effecting others here. I haven't figured out how to not be obtuse yet without going into hibernation as I did when I was a child. IT made things significantly worse because it gave me more time to think which causes me to be more obtuse.<P>I know that I went over her boundary some where along the way. I used to use it to get inside the two of the three shells she had to protect herself from others. I feel that the only persons who have been inside her third shell were her grandmother and her aunt. No one else to include her parents have ever been inside her third shell. She distrusts that much. I think I came close several times but didn't make it.<P>I am giving her much space. I have even come to grips with moving out so that she can deal with raising the boys by herself but with my help financially. I don't mean divorce. I mean leaving the house so that she can see that it is not as easy as she thinks it is. It is a wake up call for her to see that I am not the ogre that she has painted. We would never have had these problems if she would have talked with me. I am the talkative type. I relate well when given the chance to do so. She just had me on a pedestal that I didn't ask to be placed on. She thinks I am unreachable because that is how she had me painted from the beginning.<P>I do get your point. I am giving her much space. I did not hold a gun to her head to make her marry me nor will I hold a gun to her head to make her stay.<P>I hate to say what I am going to say now. I told her that I win in eiher case: she leaves my life gets a little more simplified because then I won't have to deal with her mood swings. (I am stating it differently than I said it to her.) She stays and becomes the W that God wants me to have which is a much bigger win.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>[This message has been edited by professorg (edited December 08, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by professorg (edited December 08, 1999).]

Whoa, Sheryl! Did you go to the same church I did? When I was a kid (13-15) we went to a huge fundamentalist Baptist church. Every Saturday night the youth went out soul-winning--door-to-door, city parks, etc. Geez, I hated it! Which was, in that church, practically a damnable sin.<P>I know as Christians we are supposed to bear witness, but I always thought there were other, far more effective ways than impromptu, 30-minute religious brow-beatings.<P>I'm done blaspheming now.

Maya,<BR>To make it simple, to screw a man while you are married to your Husband,,is the BIGGEST lovebuster of them ALL. Christianity has been so trivialized by you people who claim to be Christians, but are Guilty of the most heinous SINS. What might be the point of even saying that you are Christians? I know God might forgive you, but as CA123 hinted,,forgiveness by God, does not make what you did acceptable.<P>I hope the Drugs help you, your family deserves better, and I hope you can give it to them.<P>DG99(H)

D99,<P>So here you are again.<P>Do you think you can find it in your heart to speak to people with love instead of malice? <P>I don't expect an answer because I've asked you many questions in the past and you've never answered. I'm assuming that it's because I'm a betrayer - a <B>sinner</B>, and I might add that I'm saved by grace - <B>God's</B> grace. <P>I cringe whenever I see your name. Is that the message you wish to send?

Anyone mind if a heathen rabble-rouser weighs in here?<P>No one asked, but here are my observations:<P>Yeah, Rob, you can be a tad self-righteous at times, but I know you mean well. Nevertheless, being who I am, having someone preach at me, filtering EVERYTHING through religion, would drive me nuts. However, I am not you, nor am I your W, nor do I have the same religious background, so I can't say how that may or may not affect your situation.<P>Maya, your theology baffles me. I've had many theological discussions with a devout Christian friend about God and salvation, and it seems that you regard your Christianity as a "free pass" to do whatever you want here. I can't buy that. It seems that "God hates divorce, but if it's MY divorce, it's OK, because God has forgiven me for my affair." That doesn't really wash with me. It seems just to easy to say, "I can do what I want because I am saved." Assuming your spiritual system, don't we have a responsibility to conduct ourselves in accordance with what we see as God's law and God's rules? Don't actions have ANY importance, or is it like that movie theatre pass I have that gets me in free to participating theatres?<P>You ask Rob, "Where do you get this theology of yours, anyway?" Well, I might ask the same of you. It seems that you've been justifying your disillusionment, your pain, your frustration, though a theological cloud. Maybe what you're going through falls OUTSIDE of theology. Maybe it DOESN'T fit into a nice little box.<P>I don't pretend to know what sends you to Hell and what doesn't. I know that in your system, I'm headed there because I'm not a Christian. OK, so be it. I've sat through some movies recently that make me wonder if I'm already there. But it sure seems lately that you carry a lot of hate, bitterness, and resentment in your heart, and justify it all by saying "I am forgiven." Perhaps you are. But if that's the case, why doesn't it give you any peace?

Geez, I'm sorry to have stirred the pot ... and even worse I've awakened D99 .... again.<P>Well, no, I don't believe that Christ's death and resurrection and my faith and belief IN THAT gives me any right to sin .... why do you suppose I'm in such agony? A Christian longs to please God ... it's why we're freed from The Law. With Christ in our hearts, we want to please Him by obeying Him. <P>Do we always succeed? NO. Am I succeeding right now? NO. That is why I'm in total agony.<P>What I do know is that if I stay in this marriage in the present condition I'm in, I am not obeying God either. <P>Last night I cried and cried and cried. Such despair in my heart .... I cannot pretend to love my H, cannot pretend to WANT to touch him, to be with him in ANY way. I'm so very tired of TRYING the best way I knew how to be a "good" wife to him, all the while praying that God would change my heart, praying that He would work a miracle in our marriage.<P>That hasn't happened yet. Sure, it can happen ... it can happen tomorrow or 10 years from now ... or God can choose to not heal the marriage at all.<P>If I was the martyr that Rob is, I would be able to wait for 10 years for that miracle ... and according to the Bible I SHOULD. But I'm not able to. I can honestly say that if I stay in THIS state for another year, I would seriously consider suicide.<P>I do thank God that I don't want the OM anymore ... I think of him still, but I realize that he's not trustworthy (still cheating on his wife while trying to get divorced from her) and he will have a very bitter, vindictive wife that (in this state) will be able to routinely take him back to court every 2-3 years for more money ... and in this state she would be able to tap into MY income too, if I were to marry the SOB. That's a situation I'm not interested in.<P>So there ya go. I'm not saying that because I'm a Christian that I have free license to sin whenever I want. My heart does not WANT to sin. <P>

Maya, <P>I have to say bravo to Dazed. <P>I wouldn't say Rob is a martyr, I would say he is mature in his faith. <P>Why do you blast a man who is trying to heal his marriage while you are doing what you can to get out of yours? You're constantly searching for that Biblical loophole to get out. Some approval from God that it's OK to hate your husband. <P>Are you following the Biblical steps to heal your marriage? No, that's why you are in agony. <P>Are you praying WITH your husband for your marriage to heal? No, that's why you are in agony. <P>All I see from you is complete contempt for your husband. On one hand you say he's doing everything to try and heal your marraige and on the other you say you HATE him. What exactly are his crimes against you? <P>Fool No More

I didn't say I hate him. There is no love feelings for him, no sexual feelings for him. That's not a marriage. I've prayed for the past year for God to return those feelings to me ... perform a miracle in my marriage. So far, nothing.<P>I can't live like this any longer. Bravo for Rob. He's a mature Christian. That's great! I'm not .... it's just another area that I'm failing in. <P>My H deserves alot better than I'm able to give him.