***WHOOPS! NOT DMAC...IT'S SUSE!*** (how the *hayall* did that happen???)<P>Hi, Maya,<P>A couple of things.... first of all, you still sound very depressed to me, sweetie. Has your meds and/or dosage been changed? Whatever you're on doesn't seem to be doing the trick... you're still ground to a halt... BEEN THERE, Maya!! I know the agony of hopelessness. Please look into it.<P>Second (& this is for *after* your meds are working! ) - somehow I find it hard to believe that God's plan for you entails sitting around on your tush waiting for a miracle to drop into your lap. You're getting some good advice here, Maya - don't put the cart before the horse ("miraculous change in my feelings followed by fun, sex, passion, couple-time"). I know (believe me, I know) that making an EFFORT to "love" your spouse is excruciatingly difficult and feels counter-intuitive. But if you have any hopes for success, you *do* need to work on creating a fertile ground where the seeds can grow. Sometimes all you can do is keep working, keep working, keep working... perhaps God is keeping you waiting on your miracle, pending some elbow-grease from you?<p>[This message has been edited by DuncanMac (edited December 09, 1999).]

No, love is not a feeling, but I learned the hard way that feelings are an essential part of marriage. Most folks cannot sustain love as duty indefinitely. So what I wrote you, Maya, assumed that you are not sitting on your tush, but doing all you can to meet his needs (as he defines them). That's where I was until my h's heart just started turning back to me.

Maya,<P>Is your H actually <I>trying</I> to win back your love? Part of the feeling of being "in love" is the courting process. It's so intense when we first meet. Do you remember how you felt when you and H were dating? You had those feelings for him then, right? Obviously you did or y'all wouldn't have gotten married.<P>What is he doing now to recreate those feelings? Is he "courting" you at all? Or is he simply sitting there waiting patiently for <B>you</B> to work things out for yourself?<P>Seems to me that if HE wants your love back, he's gonna have to start filling YOUR lovebank. I'm speculating here because I don't know what goes on at your house or in your family, but I haven't heard word one about what H is doing to "win you back."<P>Avoiding lovebusters is just half the battle. He may stem the flow of love LEAVING you, but if he doesn't start putting some back in, you're never going to get back "that lovin' feeling."<P>So, the question I have is this: WHAT IS H DOING TO HELP RECREATE THE LOVE?<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P>

2sad:<P>The very real and very legitimate need to feel in love leads to both marriages AND affairs. Only the circumstances are different, not the needs.<P>I don't understand why this 'feeling in love' is treated like a 'second-class' love or something. For pete's sake, if the need wasn't so strong and real, no one would succumb to that great fantasy that culminates in a wedding.<P>We really believe that our spouse will always make us happy, and in the throes of THAT delusion, we're persuaded to promise 'committment' love, forever and ever. An easy thing to promise when you're 'in love'.<P>Not to mention 'young' and 'stupid'.

Geez Doug,<P>All I can say is "amen!"...<P>

Amen, Lonestar!<P>I think of what you wrote, everytime I read that Maya is still having a rough time. Only because, been there, doing that. <P>Maya,<P>It is only going to happen when your husband is meeting your needs on a regular basis. And yes, you do have permision to want and need that even though you are the betrayer. Please stop beating yourself up. Easier said than done, I know. Even us lurkers care for you and are pulling for you. Take care!<BR>

Doug et al,<P>I don't mean to discount the "feeling" part of love, just to say that there is more to real love than JUST the feeling part.<P>When our relationships begin both people seek only the good of each other and ignore each others' flaws. From this fertile soil grow the feelings of love.<P>My point to Maya is just that it is backwards to wait for the feelings of love to appear FIRST, before working at seeking the good of the other person. She needs to work at the caring, affectionate part, and the love will follow.<P>

What I'm sitting back and WAITING for is the WANT TO.<P>As far as "dating" ... for the last year I've done all that stuff ... willingly gone out just the two of us, made love when I don't want to, let him sit by me on the couch and snuggle with me in bed .... all in the hope that the feelings would return. Nothing.<P>My H's hands are really tied as far as meeting my emotional needs ... I can't tell him what they are (as in I can't put it into words) and I don't want him meeting them anyway.<P>I am an emotional wasteland. There are NO feelings here .... and nothing I want taken care of by H .... nothing. I'm emotionally dead.<p>[This message has been edited by Maya (edited December 10, 1999).]

2sad is right about there is more to love than the feeling part. The feeling part is the part God designed for us to enjoy. However, we have placed the feeling part about the part He displays towards us. True love is unconditional and is a decision. That is why we ALL have a chance to reconcile with Him.<P>I feel much better knowing that I have unconditional love for my W than I think I would have just because I have the 'in love' feeling. I am not down playing the feeling; I am puting the feeling in the place where God designed it to be. The reason our lives are not what we want them to be is because we have done it our way rather than God's way. Every time we don't do it His way there is HELL to pay. <P>Sorry if I came to strong. Just passionate about His truth which sets us all free.<P>MONDO HUG!!!!<P>My Utmost For His Highest was particularly good today and goes along with what I said above:<A HREF="http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/utmost/devo/utmost.shtml" TARGET=_blank>The Offering of the Natural</A>. Yesterday's was particularly good also:<A HREF="http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/utmost/devo/12-09.shtml" TARGET=_blank>Opposition to the Natural</A>. <P><BR>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<BR><p>[This message has been edited by professorg (edited December 10, 1999).]

Maya,<P>You are indeed in the same place as my wife. I think she too WANTS to have feelings of love again. She just doesn't. Although she also hasn't really made any of the other efforts you mentioned either.<P>She doesn't want me to try to meet her needs, and she also doesn't really know what her needs are now. So we are just in limbo. Can't move ahead, can't go back. Thank God for anti-depressants.<P>It seems like there must be something which is blocking the return of the love feelings - fear, guilt, anger - something. Hopefully our counselor can discover what it is. The pain of giving love in spite of betrayal, and without receiving love back is a HEAVY burden.<P>You say you are "emotionally dead" as far as your H. What about OM? Do you still harbor feelings of love for him?<p>[This message has been edited by 2sad4words (edited December 10, 1999).]

The OM .... that's all fading. I realize he's not trustworthy, etc. but there are still special memories of our affair ... the "feelings" I guess. What I thought was so "special" ...<P>Fear ... guilt .... I'm sure those are playing into this really big ... fear of letting H get close to me ... guilt--that I don't deserve H's unconditional love, feel like I'm "damaged goods" now ... feel like he deserves so much more ...<BR>

Maya,<P>Does your H know everything aboiut your affair? Is there anything that you are keeping from him that you are afraid he might find out if you let him get close to you again? Is that also your fear - that if you let him get close and then he learns more facts that he will then leave you and you will be hurt all over again?<P>Is this your "emotional blockage"?

Going out on a limb here Maya...<P>Could you possibly be afraid of letting your H get close... because your afraid of being hurt again? <P>Of course you feel bad about the affair, guilty and all that... but don't forget, it must have happened for a reason... something must have been wrong with your relationship before the affair... could you be afraid that even though your H is seemingly trying so hard now, if you break down, things might end up the way they were before the affair?<P>My case is a bit different in that I'm fighting feelings of love for my H... I could fall right back into it at the drop of a hat, but I KNOW that nothing will really change and I'll just end up hurt again. <P>Are you afraid of being hurt again by your H??<P>

Maya,<BR>We ALL are damaged goods, that's why Jesus had to die on the cross so that we could be reconciled to God. NONE of US deserve unconditional love, it is a gift FREELY given. It doesn't come from MAN. It comes from God. Always got to the SOURCE.<P>MONDO HUG!!!<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Possibly I'm afraid of being hurt again. Never thought of that I guess. <P>H never asks about affair, never wants to bring it up again. He knows how emotionally attached I was to OM, he knows how much I loved OM ... has never asked for details, etc. and I believe he never will. He has put it behind us and doesn't want to talk about it.<P>He's forgiven me totally, doesn't look at me as damaged goods (like I feel) ... he's unbelievable ... amazing. More than I deserve. What I deserve is to be alone the rest of my life. I'm relationship challenged. It's too hard and I hate being hurt and vulnerable.<BR>

Maya,<BR>I can relate to not wanting to be hurt or feeling vulnerable. When my ex-girlfriend broke up with me, I vowed to have women as friends and coworkers. However, God told me He had a different plan and that He wanted me to get married because He did give me the gift of forever singleness.<P>I met my W with no expectations because my brother introduced us. Because he introduced us, I thought she was going to be less than desirable. Turns out that she was the woman He wanted me to marry. My ex-girlfriend had crushed me terribly. I had kissed off women for 2.5 years. It hurts when you don't get what you think you should be getting. I learned that I had to stop looking for what I wanted and start looking for what God wanted for me. I know this is easier said than done , but it is attainable if you let Him make the decisions for you. You have to love Him enough to trust Him because He will never let you down as long as you allow Him to show you what is real.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Maya,<P>I'm <B>exactly</B> where you are, except my H is just now realizing how much he has "punished" me over the last year - and longer, but especially since the affair.<P>I feel the same way about the OM too. Yeah, he was a "nice" man, but hey, he had an affair with a married woman who was vulnerable while he was going home to another woman, so how "nice" is he actually?<BR>But still, I have a memory of feeling loved by him, but nothing more.<P>As far as the "in love" part being just a feeling: OH, WHAT A NICE FEELING IT IS! God wouldn't have given the capacity to have it otherwise. It's kind of like an orgasm (work with me here)... you don't <B>need</B> one, but isn't it nice to have? You can "make love" and "mean" it, but to have the ultimate physical manifistation of that act - pure bliss. And how long would you be willing to go without one? Men??? How long?<BR>That's how I feel. I'm no longer willing to go without that "feeling" of being "in love".<P>I hope nobody stones me for this. Hey, I'm hitting the "submit" button... here goes!<P>

That's at good start Maya,<P>Think about this different perspective... mayabe you can't identify your emotional needs now... but can you remember what they were before the affair?<P>I remember once you mentioned feeling like you were nothing more than a sex object to your H... or something along those lines... I would guess that maybe there wasn't enough real communication or respect of you as a person? What did the OM contribute that was lacking in your marriage... heart to heart communication? A feeling of friendship maybe...<P>I think you might have something to work with here Maya... think down this path for a bit... see if it gets you anywhere.... also think about what attracted you to your H in the first place... think through your relationship prior to the affair, you may be able to identify a turning point where things started to fall apart. This is not about blame, or who did what when that caused things... because we all know you can't change the past... but, you can learn from it.<P>

Me again.<P>The in love feeling can be even better when it is put in the proper perspective. The making love is even more intense when it is in the proper perspective. I haven't experienced the in love thing with my W but the making love thing was really great because she was first as unconditional love says she should be. <P>We need to focus on what the priorities are in order to feel even better than what I hear (read) everyone saying that it is. It is much more pleasurable than anything you have encountered to date when you do it God's way. I am sure Satan is getting a big kick out of US not seeing that it can be better than the lie he is telling us all.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by professorg (edited December 10, 1999).]

Maya, I think I started the new direction this is going - about the feelings, but you haven't answered my questions.<P>You said you can't articulate your needs, that you don't have any. Excuse me, but bologny (I was thinking of a different word). Read His Needs/ Her Needs again and THINK. If you were with prince charming himself, what would you want most? Once I saw that, it was easy for me. If you are an emotional wasteland, it's because you have deep needs that are not being satisfied, certainly not cause you don't have them!! As I said, after that it was easy (for the first time) for me to boldly say what I needed. For me, it is affection, great sex, and financial support in that order. Openness and a great looking guy are not far behind. But if you mean it; that you don't know what you need, who's fault is that? Sorry to be so blunt.