Hi all,<P>I've been a long time poster on the EN forum, but I'm new here, so here's the really quick background.<P>Married 11 years, 2 kids (3 and 5). Two months ago W gives me the "no longer in love with you" talk, we become "separated" in the same house. I've done the best Plan A I could, with good results. Even W admits that things are now calmer, she is no longer angry, but is still not optimistic about falling back in love. We are talking more and more about our feelings, about future plans, etc, but still things were tense.<P>I found many signs of a possible affair, but she always denied it. OK, today I got the proof I needed (but didn't want to face...). I overheard a phone call between my W and the OM. Everything became clear as daylight. They're hot and heavy, have been at it for a while, and have many "dates" set up for the future. I almost threw up hearing this, but I got over the worst of it. At least now I know!<P>My first thought was to sit down and confront the W. I've since decided to back off, take a deep breath, and think about things (and to consult you!). Let's face it, they're already hot and heavy, so time is not of the essence .<P>OK, here are the options as I see them:<P>1. Play stupid/ignorant. I guess if I can convince myself that this is just a fling, I can decide to not rock the boat (I have been seeing results from my Plan A!), and to just see what happens. Sure takes a lot of pride-swallowing to do that, but if this dies out in a couple of months, I can probably do it. Has anyone done this? How long do flings last?<P>2. Simply tell her "I know" and leave it at that. Here's what I'm nervous about: I don't know what the consequences will be if I do that! It can range from her breaking down and saying she'll end it (unlikely), to her saying that "yes, it's real, so let's get a divorce", to her denying it. To be frank, I don't know what some of the consequences might be. What if she goes unstable and sneaks out with the kids at night (unlikely, I know, but still). What if she goes crazy and does something insane (suicide, "accidents" for me, I don't know).<P>3. Tell her "I know" and tell her to leave the house or offer that I leave. Biggest issue is kids. We both want to have custody of them, if it came to that.<P>I still want to fix my marriage!! I think this is a fling that will die, I really do! Can I do anything to "help" it die? I'm thinking of anonymous notes to the OM's W, other approaches (any ideas?).<P>Please, I need all the help I can get. I don't want to do anything that will be rash and will cause more problems than I already have. Like I said, it's already been hot and heavy for a while, so there's not much that I see being time-critical.<P>But I also want to do the right thing, without hurting myself or my kids, and without being vindictive.<BR>HELP!<P>Leon

Hello Leon,<P>my suggestion is in the books, find the books about affairs, and read up. My favorite is "Private Lies" by Frank Pittman. excellent analysis. His suggestion, is to go about your business, and it will die. However, that does not solve the problem of why is it happening. Harley<BR>'s work does does that.<P>I think you should be in the just found out section, not GQ, but post in both. I think you need to take some deep breaths, and not freak out. It happens to lots of people, but it does cause anfer, fear, and instant mess.<P>The other thing that i remember reading here was to find out everything you can about the other man, so the more information you have, the better. then, i cant' remember if you called the harleys, but do so again with as much information as you have.<P>if the other person is married, there is not alot of life to it. If the op is single, then that is more difficult.<P>that's as far as i can go. <BR>We all have to make the best decision, but not a haste decision.<P>good luck, i know it sucks, but you have a much better chance with all the information that alot who find this site after D.<P>thl<BR><p>[This message has been edited by WhenIfindthetime (edited August 28, 2000).]

Hi, Leon, I'm still checking up on you.<P>I'm sorry, I strongly suspected for a long time and I am so sorry...I know how hard you've been working.<P>But....you've learned so much. <P>Now, on to affairs. Harley's theory is that they last (on average) 6 months to 2 years AFTER discovery. Pittman does advise letting it die a natural death, but some of our posters have discovered that, BECAUSE of the secrecy, affairs never discovered (meaning your spouse knows) can go on for YEARS. Needs met at home, needs met w/ OP...got it all, plus the "danger and excitement" of the secret. Many times, once that secrecy is lifted, the affair is not so special anymore. That's a tough call. Robert's affair with PT went on for about six months after he left, 8 after discovery.<P>You're right, if you just tell her you know, she may just say, "OK, I'm gone, I love him more than life itself, we haven't been working for a long time, let's divorce." Robert did. Actually....he said that FIRST, THEN told me about PT.<P>This is an individual decision. I'm not the type to be able to hold that sort of news inside, so had I discovered this on my own, I'd have simply told him I knew. When HE told me of his love, I told him that I knew we could get past it, I loved him and let it be. It didn't stop him from leaving, but you'd be surprised how quickly his feelings for her changed once the secret was out in the open. Now, he didn't come back when he knew it was over with them, and he didn't LEAVE her right away ("made his bed, now lie in it" sorta thing), but having this thing out in the open took away much of the excitement, let his eyes open a bit more and he found they didn't share as much as he had believed.<P>Get lots of help...counsel with Steve if possible (Hey, I hear that Mike is paying!! ). You don't have to make the decision this moment. Weigh it carefully.<P>Hang in there, take care of yourself. The shock (even though you suspected) WILL eventually wear off and you'll go through emotions you never knew you were capable of. Come here and vent to us. This, too, will pass.<P>We're here with you.<P>Love and prayers,<P>Lori

Hey Leon,<P>Don't give up on us. Your posts have given me so much hope that people can change. I've watched you grow on the board in many ways - all positive.<P>I think Lori is right. The secrecy makes something so exciting that it gives the affair life of its own. With you knowing (and still being supporting and loving in spite of knowing) she is going to have to make choices. They may not be the choices that you want to see, but at least things will start to move out of the hole that you're in now. Don't give in to your anger or depression - you may want to consider the Harley's advice to start on meds for depression.<P>I feel that you should tell her that you know. You've grown so much - you can do this with no LBs.<P>(((((((hugs)))))))<P>H

It *will* probably die a death all on its own, especially with you Plan A-ing, but there are people on this board who have lived with mistresses (or misters?) for decades! You have to set a time limit in your mind as to how long you want to live with this. If life is good there, and life is good at home, she has her cake and is eating it too, so she may not feel that a choice is needed. Having no confrontation may mean prolonging this.<P>How long does it last? That's different for different people. My H moved in with his honey and 2 other people in January. They dumped their other roommates and have been living solo for 3 months. It seems that the first month was good, as he was never around and didn't have two words for me then, but he's been coming around more and more since then, is calling me more, and spending more time here. Didn't take long for reality to set in. This doesn't always happen though, so putting them together with no interference is a risk.<P>Eventually, you are going to have to face this. I don't believe you can have a real reconciliation until you do. Whether it is before or after the affair terminates, I think you need to start planning for this day. Maybe a counselor can help you decide how to approach this and proceed?<P>I don't think you need to think about anyone leaving just yet. That is a big decision- one I made too soon. It's something that is really hard to come back from. I'd leave that as your last resort.

Welcome <B>Leon</B>...<P>I have a post of general welcome I wish to share with you... <P>It is geared to the <B>infidelity</B> issue and has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A><P>It's a good summary site!<P><B>About your post</B>...<P>Great advice as always...<BR>...from many who know!<P>Do plan to bring the affair out into the open...<BR>...marital honesty suggests nothing less.<P>Do plan and <B>stronger</B> and more intense Plan A...<BR>...check out <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000176.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A - 101 (2nd ed.)</A>... and make sure you give it a lot more time before you consider Plan B!<BR>Plan A is the best chance to have the affair die... it may not be the quickest... but it is the surest!<P>Don't move out...<BR>Don't move out...<BR>Don't move out...<BR>Don't move out...<BR>Don't move out...<BR>...and if you missed this one...<BR>Don't move out!!!<BR>She'll never see ny negative consequenses if you move out right away!...<BR>...she'll just have her cake and eat it too!<P>The idea if counseling is a good one...<BR>Ideally for both of you...<BR>I would recommend that you have a couple of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7200_phone.html" TARGET=_blank>telephone counseling sessions</A> (~$95US a pop... but well worth it) with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7010_about.html" TARGET=_blank>Steven W. Harley</A> or Jennifer Harley. Check out the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>Counseling Center</A>... and for some specifics... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7015_fee.html" TARGET=_blank>Fees for Counseling Services</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7020_sched.html" TARGET=_blank>Scheduling an Appointment</A> (888-639-1639)!<P> <P>Jim

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hurting Badly:<BR><B>OK, today I got the proof I needed (but didn't want to face</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>oh jeez.....Leon, this was like a knife in my gut. I'm so sorry.<P><sigh> Well, I guess we both sort of suspected this, huh? <P>Well, now you have something to really talk to Steve about. As NSR says below, I think you should be operating on a plan toward letting her know that you know. I assume that is what Steve will say. You can't go on living a lie, and your chances for the result you want (a reconciliation) will probably be improved and hastened by getting this out in the daylight. <P>I'm so sorry, Leon. Get some help from Steve, because it will probably get worse before it gets better. <P>You're in my thoughts,<P>Mike <P>

Leon,<P>As you know I am no expert, but I feel compelled to put my $0.02 into the pot. First, I would definitely recommend talking with the Pros, get a counselor or call the Harley's. But here is my very amateur point of view.<P>Your feeling that if forced your W will make a decision. Yes, she will. However, she will ulitmately make a decision if you don't let her know you know. What possible decisions could she make? <P>It has been suggested that she has her cake and eat it too. You are doing a great deal of the child care leaving her time for work and "play". She might decide this is good and do it for years, are you ready for that?<P>She might decide she really has love of her life and leave you with out your mentioning the affair. The fact that you didn't find out could even be considered as evidence of your lack of care for her. I know stupid logic, but you know stupid logic is the hallmark of affairs.<P>She might decide to take the safe choice for her children and just stay married to you, But since you don't know about the affair she will be careful about changing her behavior very much. Don't want to tip you off that something has changed.<P>I think you know where I am going. You cannot fix something if one or both of you don't admit that there is something to fix. I believe that if you tell her you know, you will get the usual denials, then the accusations that you were spying, then the rest of the garbage, but she and so will OM know that their secret is out. Other people are likely to find out about it. That she will know that her behavior and self-image are subject to reevaluation.<P>It seems to me that at that point Plan A, will show your love for her like it cannot really now. You know of the affair and you love her enough to rebuild the marriage. She will have to finally face losing you. I know she may have thought about life with OM, but the reality of losing you hasn't been faced. She also faces the possibility of losing her children to you in a custody battle, since you do as much or more of the child rearing.<P>These realities, will make her reevaluate the affair. It doesn't guarentee the decision she will make but it sure shines a bright light in some dark corners. <P>Finally, you don't know what kind of intestinal fortitude the OM has. He may not be willing to risk everything.<P>Leon, there are many variables, but if you want your W to be honest with you, be honest with her. You now know what is happening: tell her.<P>I am so sorry it has come to this, but at least now you know you aren't fighting ghosts. Hang in there and keep thinking. Only you can make the decision.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Leon,<BR>Hey sorry buddy. Wish I knew what to say. I hope things work out for you. tess

Hi all,<P>Thanks so much for the responses and for the support. Hey, Lori, I came close to the "infidelity diet" last night, but I managed to hold it in <P>Anyway, after spending a sleepless night, I decided to stay home today and to think, read, and consult with you guys. Well, as my W was getting ready for work, she asked me what was wrong. At that point I still haven't read your responses, so I wasn't sure what to do. She asked me again what was wrong. I decided I can't go on with this gnawing at me for the next few days, so I calmly and firmly said to her: "I know about you and OM" (how's that, Lori?). At first she seemed frazzled, started asking <B>what</B> I know, <B>how</B> I know, etc. But after having the irrefutable proof that I had, I was able to just ignore these detail questions, and I repeated to her that I <B>know</B> what's going on, and that "how" and "what" is not relevant. I think I made her face reality that she was having an affair. I think until this point she was truly in denial to herself (yeah, I know, your mind can play great tricks on you, if you let it).<P>After letting the new reality settle in, she said that today she will tell the OM that I know about the A. She said that the affair has been going on and off for about 4 months. She said she actually broke it off once, but she got depressed and the A restarted. I made a mental note that when she broke it off that time, I was not doing a Plan A, we were still bickering and fighting, so there was no surprise that she ran back to him.<P>I emphasized to her that all of my recent changes, positive attitude, belief in our marriage and in her (the whole Plan A package) is still valid. I said I knew about the A for a few weeks already, and I still want to restore our marriage. I said I can forgive her for the A. She said she still doesn't know what she wants (i.e. work on marriage or get divorce). I told her that as long as the A is going on, she will not be able to focus properly on the marriage. I said that while she is a big girl and can do what she wants, what I think she needs to do is break off the affair and start working on the marriage, with whatever therapists, retreats, priests, etc, she wants.<P>Bottom line was she said she needs to think about it, and went to work. I gave her a hug and told her that I'm here to support her and that I believe in her.<P>As you guys said, once the truth is out, part of the magic is gone for the A. She now knows that whenever she stays late at work, goes on an overnight trip, or gets a page at midnight, I'll be aware of what is or at least might be going on. I think the next few hours/days are going to be interesting. I think she can no longer live in denial, she will have to look at herself (as a human being) in the mirror, and I don't think she'll like what she sees. I think there will be some kind of a delayed reaction from her. It may range from "I want a divorce" to "I'll break the A off" to attempts at suicide. I'm mentally prepared for all of these. If nothing else, the time I spent on these forums has prepared me for any eventuality. Unfortunately for her, she hasn't done this kind of preparation on her part. We'll see what happens.<P>One parting question: assuming that nothing major happens in the next few days, and I get the impression that the A is continuing, what should I do? I think living in the same house with her and doing a Plan A while she is continuing the affair is too degrading for me and my dignity. Is that when I do a Plan B (i.e. I move out), or should I keep insisting that <B>she</B> either break it off or leave the house? Also, I do know who the guy is, that he is married with two kids, and of course according to my W he too is having marital difficulties (poor fellow, right?). I don't think I'm at the point of contacting his W, but what about sending him an e-mail where I firmly and politely tell him that I know what is going on, and that on gentleman-to-gentleman basis I would like to request that he break off the relationship with my W so that we can try to rebuild our marriage. Does that have any chance of a positive outcome?<P>Thanks again for all your support. Please let me know what you think and how I should proceed.<P>Leon

HB,<P>I think you stay in Plan A for awhile longer. At least a few more weeks, is my guess. You see she will have to start adjusting, this will be occasioned by a lot of flopping around by her. If she sees that you can Plan A through this, then she will see that she hasn't damaged the marriage beyond repair.<P>As for Plan B, that may come but make sure she gets the message first. You love her, and you are willing to rebuild the marriage. You will, if all that I have read on this board holds true, get a lot of anger to cover the guilt. Then the guilt will drive her down, and then she will feel hope, then OM will enter the picture if he ever left.<P>Yes, it will be a rollercoaster, but if you are kind of ready and realize that some of this seems almost as scripted as the famous, "I love you but not in-love" with you stuff that all seem to get, you can stay apart from it. It is really a script and it repeats itself, that is why Harley's stuff works. The commonality is really amazing. <P>You did the right thing by being honest with her, I truely believe. Hang on HB, come post and vent.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

{{{Leon}}}...<P>You have 2 beautiful kids...<BR>...never leave them!<P>They will respect the parent who stayed...<BR>...especially in that they are young!...<BR>...and more importantly... will respect you as the parent that "did the right thing"!<P>If your W leaves...<BR>...there is nothing you can do about it!<BR>...it is part of the "consequences" she will have to live with!<P>You've learned a lot here!!!<BR>Now comes the hard part... <B>apply it</B>!<BR>We are here to help you!!!<P>As far as the OM...<BR>..."Don't contact him"!!!<P>He is <B>NO</B> gentleman...<BR>Any man/woman who interjects themselves into another marriage... is <B>wrong</B>...<BR>...not bad ...not evil ...just <B>wrong</B>!<P>Prayers my friend!<P> <P>Jim

<BR>Hey Leon,<P>I feel for you, buddy. I'm not getting any work done today catching up on your messages here.<P>[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hurting Badly:<BR><B>She said she actually broke it off once, but she got depressed and the A restarted.</B><P>Hey, that is a ray of sunshine. Did she expand on why she broke it off? <P><B>Bottom line was she said she needs to think about it, and went to work.</B><P>Well, at least you ruined the OM's day They work together, right?<P><B>I gave her a hug and told her that I'm here to support her and that I believe in her.</B><P>I think my hug might have morphed into a strangle hold. I give you all the credit in the world for the way you handled this, Leon.<P><B>I think the next few hours/days are going to be interesting.</B><P><Mike gets on knees> Have you talked with Steve Harley? You are flying blindfolded through a life altering sequence here. This is like doing brain surgery on yourself. Get on the phone with him!!<P><B>I think there will be some kind of a delayed reaction from her. It may range from "I want a divorce" to "I'll break the A off" to attempts at suicide.</B><P>Well, strictly from reading here, I predict that it will be more vacillating. She is caught in the middle and not being forced to jump either way by you. She may come back with a strong decision one way or the other tonite, but that is just first emotions speaking -- guilt, shame, whatever. I would say that the odds are that she will stay in limbo for awhile until the actions of you or the OM change things. Maybe he'll sway her hand by breaking it off, or offering to move in with her.<P><B>If nothing else, the time I spent on these forums has prepared me for any eventuality.</B><P>No, it hasn't, and that is a very dangerous assumption, Leon. I thought the same thing and Harley pointed out that I was way, way off track. You can't treat yourself...you need a professional. Have Harley guide your through this.<P><B>I think living in the same house with her and doing a Plan A while she is continuing the affair is too degrading for me and my dignity. Is that when I do a Plan B (i.e. I move out), or should I keep insisting that she</B> either break it off or leave the house?<P>These are very valid questions, and I would have the same problems. Plan B is to save your love. Knowing the truth, your lovebank may start hemorra....hemmar... haemmor...bleeding like a mother. That is when Plan B is indicated.<P>Don't do or threaten anything along that line until you talk to Harley. It is a significant move with profound implications, not the least of them legal in nature. <P>Keep in mind that being physically separated may tend to remove some of the guilt she is feeling at the A.<P><B>Also, I do know who the guy is, that he is married with two kids, and of course according to my W he too is having marital difficulties.</B><P>Gee, I wonder if his wife knows they are having marital problems yet? The sleeze.<P><B>I don't think I'm at the point of contacting his W, but what about sending him an e-mail where I firmly and politely tell him that I know what is going on, and that on gentleman-to-gentleman basis I would like to request that he break off the relationship with my W so that we can try to rebuild our marriage. Does that have any chance of a positive outcome?</B><P>Well, Harley caustions somewhere in an article thatr the problem wit that is, even if successful, the WS will then hate your guts forever for ruining her fantasy affair. Sometimes it may be better for the thing to die of its own weight, if rebuilding your love is your desire.<P>It would be important to learn what the OM's situation is with his marriage. If he is BSing your W on his marriage, and has no intentions of divorcing his W, that will come clear immediately, as there will be an effort by the two of them to shut you up and not contact the OM's W. If you get that signal, then you know you have some leverage there. The temptation at that point would be to say to the guy "If I ever hear of you coming within 500 feet of my W or calling or emailing or contacting her in any way, your W will immediately get incontrovertible proof of your actions within the hour."<P>But this is a subtle and dangerous game....affecting a lot of lives, and some of them children. See what Harley says. <P>And Leon....I'm sorry to say this, but I think it is important...talk to an attorney immediately. The things you say and do at this point may effect your financial situation or your child custody situation in the years ahead if things go poorly. This may be painful to think about, but you being in a strong position vis-a-vis divorce and custody may be a factor in your W deciding to work on your marriage.<P>Mike <P><BR>

Leon,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>...I calmly and firmly said to her: "I know about you and OM"</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sounds just right. Personally, my D-day confrontations were much more spirited and much less productive. IMHO, you refrained from LBing and in all likelyhood made some major LB deposits by not being critical, demanding she stop immediately, etc. High-fives are in order. She'll see you as a calm, stable refuge and exactly the "safe place" she will need when she falls off the fantasy.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>She now knows that whenever she stays late at work, goes on an overnight trip, or gets a page at midnight, I'll be aware of what is or at least might be going on.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yep, this'll get to her sooner or later.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I think the next few hours/days are going to be interesting. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'd like to nominate this quote as a candidate for Understatement of the Year. <P>Keep your hands and feet inside the ride at all times. Don't stand up until the car has come to a complete stop at the end. Hang on.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B><BR>One parting question: assuming that nothing major happens in the next few days, and I get the impression that the A is continuing, what should I do? I think living in the same house with her and doing a Plan A while she is continuing the affair is too degrading for me and my dignity.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I felt this way too, until I managed to take the viewpoint that my dignity has nothing to do with my W's lifestyle choices and everything to do with my choices when faced with challenges. If anything, I feel that my dignity is <I>enhanced</I> by continuing to live in the same house and maintaining plan A in the face of adversity. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B><BR>Is that when I do a Plan B (i.e. I move out), or should I keep insisting that she either break it off or leave the house? <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My stance in my particular situation is that I want a successful, happy marriage, and moving out moves me farther away from that goal, not closer. If there comes a time that I no longer want to be married, then moving out is an option. Of course, I also allow my W the same choice, and every single day I wake up and find her still at home, I say a prayer of thanks. Your mileage may vary. <P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B><BR>I don't think I'm at the point of contacting his W, but what about sending him an e-mail where I firmly and politely tell him that I know what is going on, and that on gentleman-to-gentleman basis I would like to request that he break off the relationship with my W so that we can try to rebuild our marriage. Does that have any chance of a positive outcome?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'd guess that the odds of this working in your favor would be roughly the same as your winning the lottery while being struck by lightening. Some people have that kind of luck, but I don't and it's not something I'd suggest to anybody. The risk/reward ratio is ugly - too much downside, not enough upside.<P>In my situation, I thought long and hard about letting the OM's W know what was going on. Ultimately, I realized two things: The first was that "telling on" the OM would be an LB to my W and it would only put more distance between us. The second was that OM would actually suffer more, long term, if I didn't say anything to his W. He had an affair and has to live with what he's done. Either he finds enough backbone to tell his W himself and face the consequences, or he suffers - and faces those consequences. The beauty of it is that I get to sit back and enjoy it without even lifting a finger.<P>So my bottom-line answer to your question would be "No, don't tell anybody. It's much more likely to hurt than help."<P>I really feel for you. I've been right where you are and it hurts. You mentioned the special "diet" and wow, can I relate. I've spent many a night in the bathroom. It's rough right now and yes, it might well get worse before it gets better. The good news is that you're handling this just right. Keep it up.<P>Slightly Sane<P>[This message has been edited by o2bsane (edited August 28, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by o2bsane (edited August 28, 2000).]

Leon,<P>Mike and I seem to have a lot in common today with our thoughts!!<P>I can't seem to get my mind off of you today, please know that you are in a lot of people's thoughts and prayers...you are defintely not alone!!<P>I can't begin to tell you enough how much Dr. Harley has helped me with my situation and I KNOW HE CAN HELP YOU, if you just pick up the phone and schedule that appt. I know there has to be a million thoughts running through your head and you don't know which ones to act on....Steve will help you map out the best plan possible and act on it, now is not the time for you to waste your energy on thoughts that are not worth pursuing...SO CALL STEVE!!!!!!!<P>Lastly, I agree wholeheartedly with Mike about seeing an attorney--you need to do this for yourself and your children, please don't put it off!!!<P>Take care of yourself Leon, and please know that we all care about you!!<P><BR>

Hi Leon:<P>Here's a belated welcome to the infidelity forum. <P>I'm getting into this discussion a little late but I think you have handled things very well up to this point.<P>Unfortunately what you do now will be strongly based on what your wife decides to do. If she decides to stay and work on the marriage (which is the best scenerio possible) then you can continue to Plan A on through recovery. But if she decides she wants to continue with OM then your choices become more limited.<P>If she decides to continue with OM and moves out then you can continue with Plan A until the new wears off the relationship and it self-distructs by itself (which it usually does once it's out in the open) or until you can no longer continue with Plan A and need to to Plan B.<P>The worst scenerio possible is for her to choose to continue with OM and live at home with you for whatever reason she chooses this. This can be an unbearable situation to the BS as the WS considers that everything is out in the open and although they give a half-hearted effort to conceal what they are doing with lies and half-truths, they still inflict a lot of pain on the BS. Plan A is hard but this is harder.<P>I know Harley says don't move out, but sometimes its either them or you to protect your sanity. You've been so strong up to now, perhaps you could continue in this situation, but I couldn't do it.<P>I see a lot of signs that your Plan A has weakened your wife's resolve and made her questions whether she wants to continue with OM. The cat is out of the bag now and she must decide. This time comes for everyone and it really is for the good. Things cannot continue as they were, so they have to change...perhaps for the good or maybe for the worse. Perhaps you have already laid a good enough foundation in Plan A to win you wife over to trying again with your marriage.<P>If the affair is as hot and heavy as you described, expect that it is going to continue...you have to decide how you want to handle that in the future. I wish you luck and continued success in Plan A....I think you'll need it.<P>Buffy<BR> <P>

What a beautiful job you did with the confrontation. Now...if you can just prevent yourself from trying to educate or lecturing her, bringing her "conscious" to light (ie- making her feel more guilty), you'll be a candidate for the MB hall of FAME! As the days go on, it won't be easy.<P>You know, I e-mailed a bit with a woman once who actually only e-mailed me to criticize my viewpoint. That's cool, everyone's got their own thing to do. But, she was stuck after her husband's affair in the bitterness cycle. Bless her heart...she seemed so very nice and she was hurting so badly. Anyway, one of the questions she asked was "what kind of example are you setting for your daughter, living with him for a while DURING the affair and then taking him back AFTERWARD without making him accountable." That's a lot like your question of dignity, don't ya think? <P>Fact of the matter is, you got a great answer above. My dignity has not suffered. I am EXTREMELY proud of myself for doing what I had to do to protect what I knew was right when it was the hardest thing in the world to do. My daughter is proud of me and is beginning to truly understand love and committment, standing up for what you believe in. My husband is proud of me for what he calls my "amazing strength". Not weakness, mind you, not lack of dignity, but strength.<P>I know it's hard. I remained in Plan A before and during our separation. I couldn't afford Steve at the time, but a number of our member did as Mike did, posted their sessions and more than once he recommended Plan A during separation and during contact with OP.<P>Look, you've made some terrific progress. She is gonna waffle. She will be angry one minute, crying the next, honest to a fault, lying through her teeth, vowing (and MEANING it) to stay away from OM and calling him ten minutes later. This is to be expected. You'll hear ugly words perhaps, loss of hope, Honey, I couldn't even BEGIN to tell you what's gonna happen on this ride...I never would have believed it.<P>One of the posts that stuck with me the most was from Suse, a wonderful member of the MB family, a former wayward herself. Recovering nicely for a long long time. We were trying to explain to a member how our spouses were suffering as we were. One sentence that stuck in my head (sorry, can't get to GQ1 to quote it) in Suse's response was how important OUR stability, our staying the course, our steadfastness was during this time for the wayward. Darn it, I wish I could find it! Our spouses NEED us to be strong, to be stable, to stay the course and they're muddling through emotions we can't begin to understand. A good solid Plan A (and I hear you're getting pretty good at it! ) is the BEST way to be strong.<P>Look, you'll discover as the days go on and the shock (even though you were preparing yourself) you will become your own worst enemy. Your emotions will backlash, her behavior will become more and more difficult to take, and you will become less and less able to handle it. Don't give up. This, too, will pass. Just try to hold on to all you believe in, all you have learned.<P>Hang in there, ok?<P>Love and prayers,<P>Lori<p>[This message has been edited by lostva (edited August 28, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lostva:<BR><B>Our spouses NEED us to be strong, to be stable, to stay the course and they're muddling through emotions we can't begin to understand.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The kids need that too.<P>Great post, Lori.<BR>

I don't have any great advice, but wanted to offer you my support. I was really impressed with the unconditional way you handled the situation with your wife.<P>I also found the responses to be enlightening for all of us.<P>I wanted to second or third those who suggested seeking counsel via phone with Steve Harley.<P>I finally found this site, thanks to my lawyer, but after my H moved out...and I hadn't a clue what was going on...just very "<BR>different" behavior.<P>Steve Harley is great at getting you to understand what is going on, based on YOUR situation, and helping you formulate a plan.<P>You sound so strong. I wish I had been. My emotions took hold of me one night and BAM!<P>But I still called Steve and had another session and got back on track!!!!<P>Good luck!!!!!

OMG guys, how do I ever thank you for the support, encouragement, understanding, and love that I'm getting from you? (all right Mike, back off a little ). Seriously, if it wasn't for you folks, I would feel so lost and alone these days!<P>I can't answer your responses individually, but here are some general thoughts. I didn't get to talk to Harley today, I will try later this week. (Promise, Promise!) I <B>did</B> see an attorney today! Bottom line: I have a decent shot at custody (if it came to that); I should <B>not</B> move out (shows abandonment); I should <B>not</B> contact OM in any way. Lawyer said I should tell my W that I insist she get therapy to get over the withdrawal from OM assuming she breaks it off.<P>W called an hour ago; said she's done working and is getting ready for dinner with the OM, where she'll tell him the news (that I know what's up). She sounded like sh_t on the phone; depressed, quiet, guilty. I just smiled to myself. I figured it's about time she got the taste of what I've been living for the last few months.<P>Lori, I will try to follow your advice and not show her my anger and bitterness that are growing by the hour! The more I think about this, the angrier I get! To think, I was sitting here apologizing to her how I ignored her needs in the past few years, how I learned from my mistakes, etc, while she was enjoying herself with the OM while completely withholding all affection and sex from me. She even denied me the "sympathy f__k" that I asked her for once, per Mike's advice. Sheesh! ANyway, I'll keep my anger to myself, and will prepare for her to actually be angry at me for "pushing her" into the A (sounds comical, but I wouldn't put it past her at this point).<P>Anyway, we'll see what she says when she gets home tonight. I'm feeling pretty good about myself right now. I know that my conscience is clear; I think her guilt will hit her like a pile of bricks one of these days. I will be supportive of her when that happens.<P>You'll never believe how much being on this forum has helped me maintain my sanity throughout this ordeal, and to be prepared. If it wasn't for you guys telling me weeks ago that there were all signs of an affair, I probably would have tossed my cookies and LB'd when I found out. Instead, I must say that I handled it with dignity and calm that I never knew I would be capable of. My W is the one turning into a pathetic wimp at this point, but I will show her nothing but love and support at this point (even though I'm enjoying her patheticism).<P>I'll keep you updated after tonight's events.<P>Thanks again for the support; I don't know what I'd do without you guys!<P>Leon