JL-<BR>WELCOME BACK!!!! Missed you lots! Yeh, I have been up to no good!!! Ha! Just can't seem to stay out of trouble... a lot went on while you were gone, didn't it? Still dealing with the sex issue, as you can see...I know, it will take time, but it's hard. Still trying to be understanding - still trying to figure out why he does not seem to "want" it... Read your post to Lapeine which also helped me!!! Still reading "Men Made Easy" - really enjoying it, and bought a journal to go back and make notes, so I can share my thoughts with you.<BR>H did tell me yesterday that he never wants to lead a double life again - hardest thing he has ever done. Would you say withdrawal, bad feelings, etc. are still the desire busters? I do feel we can come out of this stronger and better - I just hope our sex life will do the same...<BR>TAke care - glad you are back to keep me in line! Ha!<BR>Later, A

Annc,<P>Don't worry about the sex life. If he is a healthy male, it will come back. It seems to me he is still dealing with withdrawal and guilt. Neither of those are known as an aphrodisiac (sp). It seems that you two are progressing.<P>My bet is that once OW is really out of the picture, you will see more desire. However, I would be you will have to initiate abit. I suspect his guilt will make him very reluctant to "ask" for sex from you. I know, I know, this is nutty , but hey this whole situation is nutty right?<P>So hang in there, maybe OW will now get the hint, with the no contact letter. You know by ending this thing, they both have to admit that they have been "fools". Not so easy to admit, that you would risk everything, for something you can give up. So as usual the watch word is "patience".<P>I think that if you keep applying what you are learning you will be very well rewarded for you efforts.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Lapeine,<P>Of course he doesn't know what he wants. Heck if he really wanted OW, he would have gone, but he didn't. However, he now has to admit that he made a hugh mistake, and there was obviously somethings about your marriage he didn't like. So does he want to go back to the marriage he remembers? Probably not.<P>Your answer to him should be "of course you don't know what you want." She was a bad choice and our past marriage wasn't a good choice. However, those aren't the only two options. The third options is build a better marriage, that you do want and I want."<P>Sometimes, Lapeine, stating the obvious does work. It is really true isn't it? All in all he wasn't that fond of the marriage before the affair, and he knows that the affair wasn't really it either. What does he want? A good marriage to you, is very likely the answer, but not the marriage you two had before the affair.<P>Sounds like a subject for discussion doesn't it? . <P>Seriously, it seems to me that he only sees two options and he doesn't really want either one of them. You probably really don't want the marriage you had before either. Offer him another option.<P>Hope this helps.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Thanks again, JL. Absolutely right on the money. I don't want the marriage we had before. I know this is going to sound odd, but I really want my H to fight with me. I don't me yelling and screaming and arguing all the time, but I want him to not back down all the time. I always tried to ask what he wanted and he would always throw it back on me by saying, "I don't care, what do you want." Then I would tell him, and he would say, okay. When I asked if that is really okay because his body language suggested otherwise, he would snap and say, "Yes, what more do you want me to say." Now I find out he thinks I'm controlling. It's like I can't win. Arghhh. <P>The only issue I felt I was controlling on was the children issue. And when it came down to it, I knew I couldn't have children without his agreement. Mentally and physically. So, it's not like I got my way. Oh, no, not only did I not get my way, I got a WS to boot. Yeppers. I want a marriage like that--where he always backs down and then thinks I'm controlling. Of course not. I want a healthy marriage in which we both care about each other and our feelings. <P>I want him to stand up and be a man, initiate a few things, say, "This year, for our vacation, I would really like to go to the Rocky Mountains." Turns out, he doesn't always want to go where I pick. How would I know that if he didn't tell me? <P>I don't want him to be afraid of telling me his feelings. He says that I always ignored them or critisized them. I do remember doing this a couple times and I want very much not to do this. Now, though, how can I prove that I will be different in this aspect if he is afraid to share his feelings? I guess this is another issue where I will have to wait until he falls in love with me again. <P>You know, this is really horrible. I used to be so glad that I had such a wonderful husband and didn't have to date again. Now, what do I have to do? I have to chase after my H like I would a guy I was interested in trying to make him notice me.

Lapeine,<P>Don't wait until he falls in love with you again to change these things. You are right as you present them, you cannot win. But you can set it up where you do win and so does he.<P>Here is where it gets tough. First, you have no doubt read where I have recommended a book called "Men made easy" by Oh. You might want to get it. I am sure the things in there are not original but it does put somethings into a nice neat list of things to know about men.<P>Now about what you said. First, if you H thinks his ideas are being rejected then that is how he feels. You know first hand that rejection really hurts. Somehow this must be overcome. Second, he feels you are controlling. I could not possibly judge that , only he can, but do you see where he has gotten that idea from?<P>Now about winning your battle. First, consider the list of 4 things Harley suggests for a healthy marriage. Look at those and see if you and H can reach some agreement to try those. Next the POJA seems like it would be particularly effective in your case. Talk with H about doing things differently in the marriage.<P>So what to do. Just some ideas. Why not tell him you don't want the old marriage back. Why not discuss with him that you don't like the way decisions were made in the past. You want him to make many of the decisions and you will abide by them. Tell him you are willing to discuss and reach an agreement on decisions such as vacations. Tell him you would like him to be the head of the household, make the decisions on many of the things. Tell him you don't want to argue with him.<P>Lapeine, tell him you want him to be many things, but here is the kicker. You must be willing to let him be those things you claim you want. I will offer you an example. <P>Most women complain that men don't help around the house. Yet, when men do, they are usually critized if they don't they way the W wants it. <P>My response is if I wanted a second boss, I would have gotten a second job. I do very little around our house unless my W agrees I can do it the way I want to. If it has to be her way, then she better have a good reason. I know this sounds harsh, but nothing bugs me more than to be willing to help and then hear nothing but complaints. <P>I will do the laundry but I will not fold the shorts. I don't care if they are folded as long as they are clean. Do you get my meaning here?<P>So think long and hard on this. It is more subtle than you think. Men are very sensitive to disapproval from their wives. They often will show no outward reaction but believe it, they don't like many of the things women do and think are fine. It rarely is that way. <P>THat is why men kid each other about doing the "Honey Do's" around the house. They know it isn't voluntary and it is usually done under close supervision. <P>What I am suggesting to you Laveine, is not that you change so much but that you change how you view your H. If you can do this and you can tell him how you now see things, then I suspect he might be willing to consider a different marriage than the one you two had before. <P>This whole issue of perspective is so important. I suspect that once the both of you discuss your perspectives on marriage and each other, there may well be a chance to have the kind of marriage you both want. I don't believe that having a good marriage is that much work. What does have to happen is that each spouse must make the effort to see things from the others perspective as much as possible.<P>If you read the Harley materials here, you will see that is exactly what he is suggesting with the POJA and the 4 rules for a happy marriage. <P>The reason I mentioned that other book, is that it might give you some new perspective on your H and why he has done what he has done. If you then speak with him with a new perspective in mind, I suspect you will get a different response. He still has to deal with what he has done, but the idea of a new marriage to you may well intrigue him after he considers it for awhile.<P>There is so much to say, but I am rambling on. So just think about this for awhile, talk with H about a new marriage, a new relationship. You just might get his interest. <P>Hope some of this has helped.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Lapeine,<BR>When JL speaks, I listen - he truly is "the best." Seriously, his insight is "right on."<BR>I benefit from his posts to you, too!!<BR>JL - So glad you are back!!! It was hard muddling along without your insight - seriously, you help keep this wacko in line!!! <BR>Do read "Men Made Easy", Lapeine - it has given me new insight!!! And, I plan to critique it with JL which should be interesting...<BR>Thank you, JL, for hanging in there with us!!! <BR>OK, a little brevity:'<BR>Two potatoes are standing at the corner, how can you tell which one is the prostitute?<BR>The one with the sticker that says "IDAHO"...<BR>Take care... A

I guess I really should get that book. I have always tried very hard not to nag becase I know how much I hate it. We don't really have a "Honey Do" list because he hates being told what to do. The problem that I have is that nothing ever seems to get done. Of course, I'm guilty of that too. But our lawn only gets mowed once a month in the summer. It was pretty thick all winter. This drives me crazy. I absolutely hate all of that grass growing high around the mailbox and around the flower beds. Then the grass grows into the flower beds and I have to pull it out. When the grass hasn't been trimmed around the flower beds I can't even tell what is outside and what is inside. I can't tell him to mow the yard because I will be nagging. I can't ask him because I will be nagging. I can't hire someone to do it because then he says it's is a waste of money. I can't do it myself because I'll end up in the hospital with an asthma attack.<P>Meanwhile, I have to keep the house straight and free of clutter. He hates clutter. I'm real bad about this, but I am desparately trying to get better especially since OW is a neat freak too. So now I am afraid to take anything out because what happens if I forget to put it back? LB and another reason that being with the OW seems to be a better option. You wouldn't believe how nervous I am in my own house now. I want to hire someone to come clean every other week. This way, the house will be spotless at least twice a month and I will be able to relax some. He doesn't want to spend the money for something we can do for ourselves. The problem is that we don't do it ourselves. So then I end up with the lawn unmowed, the flower beds unweeded, the house cluttered, the house dirty, and me an emotional wreck. I think $100 a month to relieve some of that stress is really not such a bad idea. It beats antidepressants.<P>He has told me to look into having someone clean our house on a regular basis, but I know that he is not thrilled about the money, so I'm trying not to push it. But, most of the time, he sits around and reads, plays on the computer, and watches TV. I want to sit around stitch, watch TV, and read, but I feel so guilty because I know that the house needs to be straightened and cleaned, bills need to be payed, etc. I just feel so responsible for everything now, and I have never felt that way before.<P>Okay, this has turned into a long ramble and vent. Although, I'm not really mad, just frustrated because I don't know how to solve this problem. I don't know how to discuss it with my H without LBing. It almost seems to be a lost cause.

Hi Lapeine,<P>Of course you know how to solve this problem so does your H. In fact there are many viable solutions to this problem. So let me walk you through this and then you two can do it anyway you like.<P>First, sit down with H and decide on some things that are important to you and to him. They don't have to be the same things right?<P>For example we will use the two things you mentioned. <P>1) The lawn.<P>2) An neat house.<P>One is "his" job and the other is "your" job right? Apparently, you feel a neat lawn is important and he feels a neat house is important. In fact you both probably feel that both of them need to be done.<P>Let's address the yard. <BR>a) You want it done so it doesn't mess up the garden and the home looks good.<P>b) You really cannot do it because of allergies.<P>c) Your H gets this job but would rather do something else.<P>d) You don't want to bug your H about it but it does drive you crazy.<P>Sit down with H and go over possible solutions. You could do the yard, but it will cost him. You will spend more on medicine. You won't feel well and that could cost him elsewhere . He doesn't want to do it. He doesn't want to spend money to have it done.<P>Are there any solutions? Yes. He could do the yard regularly. You two could pay a neighbor to do the yard. You could hire a professional service to do the yard. He could do it sometimes, but if busy someone else could be hired to do it.<P>Those are just some of the ideas. Now why not find out why he doesn't want to do it. It may be he needs company. I am not joking here. When people work outside the home they tend to have one of two reactions. THey want to be alone when the come home, or the want to spend as much time in the home and with family as possible. If your H falls into the latter class, he may really need your company. Does that mean you do the yard? Not really, maybe you do something else outside while he is cutting the grass. You are around you can talk with him when he stops or maybe you stop him every now and then and sit and talk, have something to drink, etc.<P>Lets talk about the house work. Well, the same arguements apply. It may be worth the extra money to have a happy spouse in the house right. Maybe you don't need him to help so much as to be around to talk with as you do things. Sit down and really think about what would make you happiest if you "really had to do" the house work.<P>Do you want his help or his company? Maybe a housekeeper every so often for the heavy cleaning.<P>Lapeine, what I am talking about is the POJA type of approach, but with some honest thought into what the issues really are here. We all have to do things we don't particularly enjoy, but sometimes with some thought this experience can be turned into a pleasant one. Hey even sex works you know. He's got to take a shower after cutting the grass right? Perhaps you could help a little indoors rather than outdoors. <P>There are so many possibilities to make these tasks into something that while not "fun" aren't the time sink you both think they are right now. <P>It seems to me if you can get your H to at least discuss these thinks with you, then you will find that many other issues will become tolerable to talk about. You two are a team, you are not equal, but you each bring strengths and weaknesses. Explore them, learn from them, enjoy them. <P>I know you know everything I have said. I apologize for rambling like this, but I will tell you the three rules I live by:<P>1. There are no experts on unsolved problems.<P>2. Life is a team sport.<P>3. Credit is not a conserved quantity.<P>The last one is very important in a marriage I think. It means that whenever possible give your spouse all of the credit they deserve for doing, helping, supporting, working, etc. There is always more credit to be given there is no limit.<P>Hope this helps a little.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Hey, JL,<BR>I know you say patience - and we are making progress. Yet, how do I handle my feelings of rejection - for instance, last night at dinner I put my hand on my H's leg and he immediately pushed it off - said he wasn't feeling well. I wasn't even making a sexual "advance." So, I do wonder if he will ever want close intimacy - I have initiated all the sex we have had since we started up again. Yes, I understand that he is probably feeling guilty, etc. and I am trying hard to be patient - yet, in the meantime I don't feel desired, I don't feel like a woman, etc. I dress in sexy lingerie, dress nicely - try to look attractive, etc. and get NO response. Beginning to wonder if he is a normal red blooded male!!!! Is this normal?? I am wondering if OW(ok, I know I am not supposed to mention her!!!! sorry!!!)is "in bed with us." He had to "schedule" time to have sex with her, yet won't have it with me... He is telling me to "relax" - yet I feel we need to talk about this as I am concerned we will have a problem in this dept. Yes, I know that given time, things should get better - guess I am just really frustrated, especially when I read a lot of posts by men on this site who wish their wives desired sex. And, here I have never had that problem - never said no - and initiate a lot... There is something wrong with this picture. I feel like all the men on this site who want their wives to enjoy sex and want it - yet, I am the wife - this is not the norm; it should be the other way around... I appreciate your patience and putting up with me... beginning to feel like all I do is whine about sex - cannot help if it is one of my top en's... <BR>Thank you and God bless - (and God bless me with some strong patience - this is how A's start - not that I would ever do that, but this is not good...) I wish I could just turn off my needs like a faucet...<BR>I am finding myself really checking out men - I guess I am wanting attention, and this is not good....<BR>Sorry to ramble so... taking out my frustrations on the keyboard! <BR>A<BR>

Hey, L,<BR>I relate to what you say about being worried that if you don't keep house up, etc, H will get upset and reinforce his feeling for OW. I , too, worry every time I sense my H's frustration with me... The book is helping; I do recommend it. Yet, I am also having a hard time focusing right now and getting things done - are you having that problem??<BR>Seems this A has thrown me in to such a state that I find it hard to get much done or think about anything else - not good. I am going to try to make a real effort starting tomorrow to make a list and start accomplishing things I need to do...<BR>Take care - A<BR>Do you relate to my above post on "sex" to JL? That "S" word AGAIN - I am feeling obsessed...

Annc,<P>Well, you are right most of us guys would love to have a W who thought about sex all of the time. Of course, she would probably wear us out, and then we would complain. Can't win Huh? <P>Let's back up just a minute OK. First, it is pretty clear to even those of us with meager minds, that your H didn't have the affair because of lack of sex. So let's cross this one off the list. Got a feeling that he didn't have an affair because you were unattractive either. So let's cross that off the list. So let's think about this for a minute.<P>It would seem to me that you really don't need validation that your attractive or sexy. So don't go there OK? You are putting all of your self-esteem into whether your H wants to get it on with you early and often. Yet he is back with you without the sex. He had sex available to him before the affair, during the affair, and after the affair. Suggests to me that sex is not the issue. <P>Further, I'll bet that while you think about the sex, he sees other attributes in you, that you don't appreciate. It is one or more of these attributes that has been ignored by you that may have been involved with his decisions.<P>Let me speculate for a minute here. Please remember I am certainly not an expert at psych. type of things. But I speculate that your H did like the idea that you are very sexually active with him, because he is not or at least not to the level you are. <P>I am guessing from his reaction to you, that he feels that since he cannot keep up with you, he has failed you. He feels guilty about it. You have needs and he cannot meet them. This can be very intimidating. But more importantly there is some other things about you that attract him to you. <B>Remember, he is back with you. </B> Always remember that.<P>I am guessing that he is depressed and probably was depressed before this affair got started. That tends to heighten feelings of failure, not being loved, taken for granted, used, etc ... It also tends to depress sex drive. <P>You make the comment that he had time to have sex with her, but not you. This makes sense to me. He was looking for that high, any feelings at all, to overcome a blah life. Why is the life blah, it isn't you. If he is depressed all of the flavor and color in life drain away. The sex with OW was like pouring salt on tasteless food, something, anything to give it taste, even if you really don't like lots of salt.<P>Is he on anti-depressants? Maybe he should consider them for awhile. Maybe he is coming out of is depression and feels it. But he doesn't want to feel pushed yet.<P>Where am I going with all of this? Well, it seems to me this affair was not about you per se'. It was about him trying to get "color" back into his life with a really bad decision. He felt he couldn't talk with you about his problems. Have you changed things so that he might be more comfortable doing so now? <P>It seems to me that you need not to worry about the sex, in fact you initiating other than in the most gentle of ways, may feed his sense of failure right now. Annc, what you may not realize is that it isn't your self-esteem that is under attack here. It is his. He has broken his marriage vows. He has hurt the one he loves and his family. He has probably seriously damaged his image of himself and worst of all he may not really know why.<P>You on the other hand have loved him and been a faithful wife. You have kept your vows. This is something to be proud of. However, something was wrong in the marriage and that needs to be addressed. So I know you feel hurt and down, but don't compound it by doing the "I must be worthless" stuff. You have lots to offer this marriage and don't forget it. OK?<P>My suggestion to you. Realize you love your H. Realize that to him you represent something more that just sex. He needs from you something else far more. I don't know what it is but he does. Your H is probably just starting withdrawal and that will end. When it does the sex drive will return, but the important thing to remember right now, is that you aren't failing him there.<P>So the final message out of this whole thing. Realize it will take time. Realize you are attractive and sexy, but he needs something else from you. He has deep guilt and is in withdrawal. So don't worry Annc, it seems from what he is saying that he is trying and wants to get back to you. <P>It also seems that he is very touchy about sex right now. Rather it is guilt or preceived pressure from you that he knows he cannot satisfy, something is there.<P>So why not ask him. Tell him it bothered you that he didn't want you to touch him. It really wasn't intended to be sexual. Ask him if your sex needs bother him right now. Annc talk with him some on these things. Don't dwell on it but talk with him, you two need to get on the same wavelength.<P>Enough stuff for awhile. Think about this and see if it is of any use to you.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<P>PS Have you noticed that opposites sure seem to attract?

JL, I have a hard time combatting the "I'm worthless" feelings. Deep inside, I know that I am a valuable person. I am attractive, I am personable, and I am a little eccentric (aren't we all?). I know that if I were on my own again, I would have no problems attracting a man. And yet, there is always that nagging, my H doesn't want me, I must be a horrible person.<P>It is very difficult to understand why my H wants to throw me away if I am really the great person that everyone else tells me I am. Is he just crazy or is the OW really that much better than I am (which I know she isn't). Just showing you how the logic and the emotions don't mesh very well in this situation.<P>But, Annc, JL is right. We are worthy, good people who have remained faithful to our spouses even as they turned from us. Obviously, we are strong women because we want our marriages to be success stories. So, it's time for our weak H's to lean on us for a little while. I know the Bible says the H should be the leader, but I don't particularly want to follow in his footsteps right now. So, we need to take over the leader reigns until our H's can be strong again. Hopefully, it won't take too long. But, in the meantime, let's lead with the example of strength and integrity, not forcefulness and pride. I'm keeping you in my prayers.

Lapeine,<P>I really like your response. You touched upon something that is very difficult but I think very important. It is the marriage of logic and feelings. As you have heard me "preach", perspective is so important in all of this. I believe you get perspective by knowledge and logic. But that surely doesn't hook up with those feelings does it? <P>So my take on this is let the feeling role, but continually revisit the logic of the situation. You know you are a good person and an attractive person. While you feel rejected (and you were) it may and probably is more for his problems than your failures.<P>Yes, there are cases when the spouse is abusive, verbally and physically (And yes women are abuse too), but in many cases here it seems that the betrayed spouse really wasn't aware of what has changed. In many cases it is something like depression or another issue the WS has.<P>So it is best in my mind to apply what you logically know to the situation and examine the possible outcomes. But realize that you will feel awful if for other reason that the life you thought was good has been temporarily ripped apart.<P>You will do well Lapeine. Just keep hanging in there.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

JL and Lapeine - <BR>Thanks for uplifting my spirits - y'all are the best!! And, I agree with you both - I do not really feel bad about myself; I feel I am attractive, worthy, etc. - it's just as you say, the rejection. Yet, it is his problem, not mine. I have suspected depression for awhile - I think you hit the nail on the head! Yet, H is strongly against taking medicine for it or going to counselor or doctor to get help. He did say several things to me in past few weeks that are enlightening: rough year due to our move, teenagers, job, etc.; he felt very guilty moving us from our "home"; said his top EN is to feel important - guess he has felt unappreciated and has been down on himself for moving us, etc.; add mid-life crisis into the mix and teenage daughters!! Calgon take me away!!! I think your suggestion of adding color to his life is probably right on, JL - even though it was a very inappropriate way to add it. Your take on his feeling he can't meet my sexual needs is very insightful - he told me on vacation that he was feeling the "pressure to perform." I told him I didn't really understand, but I think you just helped explain it. And, we have agreed that we weren't really communicating very well - a major breakdown. I have thanked him for sharing with me in past few weeks and we both agree we need to open up more to one another, especially on his part, and hopefully I can make him feel more comfortable about talking. "Men Made Easy" does a great job re. communication! Still reading... I just get frustrated re. sex - know I have to back off some. I will admit, too, that the green-eyed monster is probably bearing its ugly fangs - I am so jealous that she had something with my H that I don't. Yet, you are right, he chose me and I have to keep that in mind. I just hope that things will get better...<BR>I am thinking of you both, and praying for you, too! I am so thankful for your support and encouragement...we are going to get through this!!! <BR>God bless, A

Annc, I absolutely agree. The green-eyed monster is really a problem for me too. I am so jealous that he has something with her that he doesn't have with me. I am so angry at myself for not meeting those needs of his like a good wife who loves her H should. I am so angry at him for "solving" the problem in such an unhealthy fashion. I guess I am just trying to work through the anger and the jealousy. Hopefully in time that will get better.

annc - I hope no one minds that I jump in here - I want to deal with the intimacy issue too. I feel that that is one of our stumbling blocks. However when I think back on things I feel like I was always the initiatior (or at least 85% of the time) my husband used to say , "You know I always want to so just let me know" but now I feel uncomfortable. and he said about a week and a half ago he felt uncomfortable having sex while he felt so confused. So do I persue it or not? I did initiate once since he made that comment but I can't tell if the feeling is mutual or if this just him being his conflict avoider self. I really think if we could regain our sense of intimacy in the bedroom it would speed up recovery but I am learning not to push it. It is just difficult.<BR> Kris

Annc,<P>I had written a real long post to you and Lapeine and then lost it when someone called and my line dropped out. Now I don't have much time, but I would like to point out something to you.<P>The OW was just a condiment. You are his W and that my dear lady makes all of the difference. So let the jealously cool a little. Of course there is good news in the jealousy: you care and that is very good. <P>You H is probably like most of us guys, very afraid of taking these types of meds. They can affect a career although they shouldn't. However, you might ask him if he needed glasses wouldn't he wear them. If the Dr. prescribed heart medicine wouldn't he take it. Here we are talking about tuning up the brain chemistry, to make it function better at work and at home. He might just consider it, when he realizes that it is affecting his work as well as everything else. Must balance decreased productivity with fear of condemnation from the work place.<P>Something to think about.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

OK, JL, L, QM,<BR>Having a bad day, I admit. I am ready to just give up, throw in the towel - my needs, who cares?? I blew it last night and this a.m. - guess I am having a hard time putting things behind; not really sure I can do this anymore. H came home last night in a foul mood - work. I tried to be supportive and "lighten" the air. He went to bed before me - so, my self-centered mode kicked in and I decided to put my feelings down on paper. Bad timing on my part, I admit. Then, I laid down on couch and fell asleep - he came and got me - worried and upset about my being on couch. I did not tell him it is because I just have a hard time lying next to him right now feeling rejected and "alone." I basically said in my letter that I want us to be on the same wavelength re. physical intimacy(borrowed from you, JL); that I am concerned that it is not in his heart to have passionate feelings about me - that I want him to be happy, not to merely "settle" etc. That I want to reignite passion and intimacy - ie, have same feelings for me as OW(or something to that effect). That I know it will be a different "passion" compared to the first feelings of being in love - etc. I would love him to send me emails, or answer my emails, cards, flowers, etc... I would love to treat one another as we are "in love." That I am concerned by his not wanting me to touch him etc. Well, he read it this am - anger... did not set well. He said I am not putting "it" behind me and that is all he wants to do; he does have those feelings for me but does not really have need or desire to be touched, that I have different needs(duh!!!!), that he is not going to come home from work tired and make love every night, that obviously I am the one who is not happy because he can't meet my needs, and so on. <BR>I feel I am fighting a losing battle - yes, I am having a hard time putting "it" behind me, especially when his love letter (email) to her rings in my head!! He wrote: "you are the love of my life. I cherish every moment that I spend with you, every touch(!!!!thought he doesn't like touching!!!), phone call, phone message, email, and my own dreams of you...I love you more than you will understand. I love you with all of my heart and soul." He has never said these things to me! He has never e-mailed me or even answered any of my e-mails - he tells me he can't do it at work!!! He spent hours on the phone with her at work, and sent countless e-mails...He won't buy me a card, a flower - "I haven't give him time..." - there is ALWAYS an excuse where I am involved! Love units are being withdrawn from my love bank at a rapid pace... Do I want to "settle"??? He contradicts himself with me - He says he has put it behind him, hasn't seen her since April. Yet, am I wrong to want those same feelings about me?? Quite frankly....I give up!!!! <BR>This is going nowhere... why should I settle for someone who just can't show me. He says he feel he has been trying and just can't get anywhere - and I did say that I appreciate his efforts and I love him dearly and just want him to be happy. OK, why can't he do the things for me that would make me happy??? Plan A is getting old...<BR>Sorry to be such a downer today...<BR>Later, A

Annc-<BR>Are we married to the same man? I've been following your story since you started posting (I mostly lurk and have learned so much from all of you). I am in the exact place you are at now. Discovery was in February, phone calls continued til April. Claims he hasn't spoken to her but still will not touch me. He usually recoils if I try to touch him so I know exactly how you feel in the rejection department. I often wonder if he is trying to push me into an affair of my own to ease his own guilt. Just like your h, my h refuses to consider taking anti-dep meds, won't see a councelor. (just out of curiosity, is your h in the construction business?) I wrote a letter similar to yours to my h and he got angry too - threw it in the trash. Sorry to hear you're having a bad day. I was so encouraged to hear you had some intimacy during your vacation and hoped that things would continue (gave me some hope!). Just wanted you to know that you are definitely not alone. I'm going to give it a while longer and see what happens. Try to hang in there with Plan A a little while longer. I will if you will! From all I've read on these boards, it seems time is what it's going to take. Oh, and sorry I haven't piped up before to tell you you're not alone...there was a thread on this awhile ago - you have the same name as my h's OW - it's taken a while to get past that but I'm getting much better!

Annc,<P>It is time to get to work here. You did the right thing by writing your feelings down. He is rejecting them because he is still in withdrawal. He waffles back and forth and he hasn't really decided. He has decided intellectually that he wants you but his feelings are probably bouncing or are a kind of dead neutral.<P>Hang in there, it is clear from his response he hasn't accepted his responsibility for the affair and his responsibility for rebuilding the marriage. I think that will come. From everything I have read here it does come back. My suggestion is to continue to do Plan A, but pull back some in the overt actions. Be pleasant, be friendly, be talkative, but pull back on the other things.<P>I may be wrong here but he is trying to sort things out and knows he has decided to stay with you. What hasn't come back is the feelings. Why? Because he had to bury them deep to do what he did or his conscience would have killed him. He hasn't faced his conscience yet. I suspect that will come.<P>I dont' know how to say this without it sounding like something really dumb, but here goes. Consider what you would be doing if you two were divorcing or separated. Would you be talking with him at all? Would feel as connected as you do right now? You are in better shape than you think, but I know not as good as you would like.<P>Annc, you are doing OK. It seems to me the healing part will take time and he will have to face his deamons. Don't be bitter, just look at as if he is sick, for he really is right now. He has done something that I suspect goes against all he thought honorable and it has poisoned him. He is recovering but as you can attest he is not well yet.<P>Think about it, Annc.<P>God Bless,<P>JL