After 12 years of marriage, my wife went into AA and has been sober since (2 years ago).I found out she began an affair with someone from AA 3 months into sobriety and found out she was pregnant by him and had an abortion.
It has been 7 weeks since I found out and we are in seperate counseling and were in marriage counseling until last week. Marriage counseling was to the point of both of us being nice to each other and getting close again. Her individual counselor wanted her to stay distant with little or no closeness or touching and mine wanted me to stay distant until she was ready for closeness.
Things got out of hand in our last marriage counseling session and she said she never loved me like a wife should love a husband, she never found me phsically attractive, married to get away from her father and cringed when I touched her during our marriage and that an open kiss with me would be like rape that she wasnt ready yet. We sniped at each other the whole time. The counselor offered no help, let the sniping continue and told us to keep seeing individual counseling.
She said she kept the affair going for so long to make sure she was in love with the om but still didnt want to hurt me. I asked if you felt this way why didnt you tell me in the previous 14 years; why did we have three children; why didnt you tell me right before the affair began since they apparantely were friends first. In anger I told her I was starting divorce proceedings and she said I was being spiteful for starting so soon; she thought I should wait till the twins 8th birthday at the end of february. Up until the last marriage counseling session things were going reallly well. We were talking and laughing more than in years; we were doing more family things and occasionally doing things together. There was no intimacy only an occasional back rub to her by me. My counselor thought marriage counseling was too soon since she has shown little remorse or regret and wasnt ready for closeness.He says I should wait till she is ready but after 7 weeks she seems to have taken a step back toward divorce. I am totally confused; For the first time she said she wants a divorce and is no longer unsure . In 14 years she never said things were this bad or that she wanted to leave. She is still seeing the om occasionally at AA meeting and for lunch. He even called after the last session and I answered. He says He's not the cause of the problems but just in the middle. Several weeks ago I asked him to be decent and to stay away for a few months to see if we could still work things out. He didnt. I still want to try to work things out because I still love her and I dont want regrets in future that I didnt give it enough time.
Could someone stay married and have three children and truly have these feelings she says she has now for 14 years. She says she is in love with him but loves me. Can a person fall in true love with someone you see at lunch only and have sex in a minivan and spend no other time together? It has only been 7 weeks and I dont know what to do.
Any suggestions or thoughts?

Rickv,
Welcome to MB. You come to the right site. Please listen carefully, your situation is no different than most of us. First do not concentrate on your wife behavior, she is what we call it "in the fog". Her selfishness takes the better of her. I know you are hurting and confused, you will be in what we call "roller 'coaster ride of your life" just be ready. Second you need to follow the link under my signature. Learn about LB, plan A/B. If you could also you might want to read up on His need her need books and Surviving an affair books.<p>Get busy on focus on learning it will help you in the sort run. In my oppinion you should not seek the MC that you go now. Find the one that understand MB or even get it from MB itself. I have regular conseling w/ Steve.<p>Right now, you have to stall Dv. You are right about not enough time. She tries to push you by hurtfull remark and so on ... hang in there, just treat her like insane person. You love them so much you care so much but whatever they say is not them but "the fog" is talking. Keep posting if you have any question or you feel need to vent.<p>God Bless you.

Thanks,
This morning I was told that talking about the marriage is like beating a dead horse and she wants a divorce. I just said I dont think enough time has gone by to make any decisions and I said if you wanted to leave or call your lawyer you could have already but you havent yet.I said if there is any chance of staying together my counselor told me I should see small signs from her and I havent yet. She actually is more distant since seeing her counselor than when I first found out. The day after I found out she asked if she could still see him and I said I didnt think so and now 7 weeks later she wants out. I have bought the book on the website and have started to read it.

Rickv,
You are doing the right thing. Keep reading and understanding MB. You will have peace within you with or with out her. For now, show your love for her despite all she said and done. Do not create boundry as long as your wife let you do it. Even SF, but protect your self. Keep your schedule busy, it will keep your mind wondering around.

what does SF mean? I couldnt find it in the acronym lst. I also scheduled a phone session today with Jennifer from MB.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Rickv:
<strong>what does SF mean? I couldnt find it in the acronym lst. I also scheduled a phone session today with Jennifer from MB.</strong><hr></blockquote>
One of EN ... Sexual Fullfillment [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] . Good thing that you get MB directly ...

I talked to my wife about her emotional needs and tried to get some info on what she wants and needs but she said she didnt want anything from me.
The following day we had an argument and she said she is just waiting for me to initiate proceedings after more time goes by since I'm the one who said 7 weeks was too soon for divorce in case feelings change. I said what if I never make the call and she said she would have to work up the guts to call.
After 7 weeks she is even more distant from me since I found out and seems to be waiting for the inevitable. I am tired of hearing I love you but am in love with him. She spends more alone time with him than me.I do not know what to do anymore. We do have more conversation than ever but she doesnt want any affection or recreational activities with me as recommended by her counselor.Even an open mouth kiss is too much; apparantly it doesnt feel right and may cause feelings in me she doesnt want me to have. She is reading a book recommended by the OM called Too Bad to Stay too Good to Leave which seems to be biased toward breakup

Rickv,
How did your conseling w/ Jennifer go ?.<p>You actually could pretty much guess her EN but probably not in the correct order. It is normal for WS to rejects you. As painfull as it might sound but WS rational is "It is cheating on OM if she receives any affections or SF from you as her husband". Fogese allright.<p>Hang in there and work on you list of issue(s) that she told you in the past before the D-day. It will be a long 'coaster ride.

We had another big fight last night. I cant seem to stop getting angry and making bad comments whenever we talk about the affair and the state of our marriage. She is so distant that I am losing the will to want to try to make it work. My anger is driving her away from me and I get caught up and can't stop. It is amazing how her AA friends all say she should divorce but my family AND hers (everyone she has known for more than two years) thinks divorce is a
mistake. She says little things that set me off like "I never wanted to make love to you before and now I never do" or "I find him sexy but not you" and "Its been 8 weeks and I dont feel any different about you".
If she truly believes what she says about me I feel cheated out of 14 years of marriage epecially the last two years during the affair. While I was home watching the kids so she could go to AA meetings she was cheating.
I have my first counseling session with Jennifer tomorrow. My wife's therapist advised her not to join in

Rev,
I could sympthize what you are going through. We love WW so much that it creates anger to see her doing this. I am LB'ed once in a while too but what helps me is I try to avoid "relations" talk at all. She doesn't want to either so it works well for now.<p>Control your anger and learn to let it go. Good thing that you have Jennifer to consult to.<p>Vent here if you have to ... just SCREEEEEAAAAAM out loud.

I finally have come to the realization that getting angry at my wife isn't helping at all even if its once in a while or because she pushes my buttons. It has really bothered her for years. I am going to focus on being decent and civilized with her and pay more attention to the children and her. I want to do more family things and not concentrate on work or other distractions. I am going to try to change the things I believe caused the marriage to have problems before the affair since she doesnt want to go over any emotional needs with me. I still love her very much and truly believe she is getting one sided advice from her friends who are just stroking her ego. No more relationship talk or divorce talk between us. It is too soon.<p>Married 14 years
Twin Boys 7
Oldest boy 10
Discovery Day Oct 20
Affair 18 months broken off twice for 3 months and 2 months

Well I had my first session w/Jennifer. I am starting on my plan A. There have neen no LB's for 4 days! I am trying to make myself an attractive alternative for my wife. It will be hard because her counselor recommended for her not speaking to Jennifer. She wont go over her EN
with me because she says she doesnt want them from me. I will make a pretty good guess at them.
Conversation is very easy as we talk more than ever. The only time I LB in the past 6 weeks was when we talked about the A. So no more talking about it! I cant give affection as she doesnt want it; only affection is kiss when either of us leave the house. I try to spend all my time at home with her but she goes to her AA meetings and stays out for hours usually from 7:30-12:30 for night meetings.
I have read SAF and am reading LB. HNHN hasnt arrived yet. Since dday I have wanted no regrets but during LB periods of intense anger I would threaten D. Wife told me I try to make her hurt to make me feel better during these periods (giver taker) and can get emotionally out of control. During soul searching found out she was right.
Still alot of anger in me and any little thing she says can set me off. Sometimes I have read wrongly into what she said and other times I wonder if she says it on purpose to get me going.
Jennifer told me I am not trying to make my wife love me now but see the good in staying and make myself and the family more attractive than leaving. For Christmas I had a picture of myself and wife during happier times blown up as a christmas gift along with 2 love poems I wrote (first time in my life). Now I wonder if the picture poems are appropriate. I was thinking of getting a picture of the three boys blown up also in case the first picture was too much. Any thoughts?

Rickv,
I am glad you have made it this far, you are on the right track. I think pictures is a bit too much again it is too early. Get her something that she really like, similiar gifts from the past, from happier time.

Finally had a good deep conversation with wife on how she feels. There was not much talk about the A. I only told her she REALLY HURT me. I told her this wouldnt feel as bad if she told me she wanted a D before the A.She told me she couldnt stop the A and I said thats because it is an addiction taking the place of alcohol (which is what my individual counselor told me at my first session). She complained her family has pushed her away and I said its because of what she did and because of the kids. I told her I dont want a divorce and the reasons. I told her I am no longer going to get angry. She said she will just wait for the next outburst. During the conversation there were no lb's. This was the first deep long conversation since dday. She said there is no spark with me. I said spark with om wont last either.
She broke down and asked why are things taking so long. She didnt think it would take so long. I asked what "it" is and she said to find her feelings and to see if there are any feeligs for me.(no change in 8 weeks) She says she feels like she is in limbo.
Today she went over the relatives for first time for Xmas since dday. Whole family knows what happened. I was really happy when she said she was going. She asked not to stay long and I agreed. Kids and I had a good time; afterwards she says she shouldn't have gone. She felt out of place and as if she didnt belong there. No one ignored or offended her.
Still no affection or closeness but I am still working plan A. no lb's or anger for 7 days!!

[img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Good job !. You have to keep it that way, no angry outburst !. Make that no LB become a habit [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . Hey, it is not too late for Christmas present for me. I am really happy for your progress, keep it up. Merry Christmas.

Had another good deep conversation with wife! Unbelievably the atmosphere in house is better with me not being angry or having any outbursts or lb's. I told my wife my feelings again and that I am commited to change and make marriage work. I told her I was partly to blame and am looking inside me and making changes but it will take time. I also mentioned that as long as she see's OM, saving marriage will be very difficult or impossible. I am also preparing myself for a D if it happens. My counselor wants be to be ready for it emotionally.
The only bummer is she isnt wearing her wedding rings anymore but so as to avoid lb's I wont bring it up. No LB's or angry outbursts for 11 days and its getting easier! Feeling less uptite and not angry all the time is nice!

Rickv,
One more day is 12 days of gifts [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . It will become easier as long as the situation is the same and it will become a habit. I strees the same to remind you that watch out and don't get too comfi. WS could push your hot button if she wants to ... you are married to her, she knows you better than anyone else [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .

Well I nade 12 days w/o LB. HAd a minor disagreement the other nite and I didnt stop talking when I should have. It wasnt over the A and there was no anger involved. Wife still is very distant to me. We talk alot but she doesnt want affection, touching, or to do anything with me out of house w/o kids. It feels as though I am living with a close roommate and not my wife.
Ran into OM the other nite and had a long talk. At first was very angry but it subsided quickly. He tells me he is avoiding my wife but misses her. I told him their relationship was based on lies and deceit and would never last. I also spoke of how everyones life is screwed up now including his little girl and my 3 boys. I explained my true feelings for my wife to him and told him I am doing everything I can to make marriage continue. I mentioned many times that he should have no contact with my wife or things wont work out. I told him several things my wife has said to let him know how she is in turmoil and that she told me she feels like she is in a quagmire.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Rickv:
<strong>Well I nade 12 days w/o LB. HAd a minor disagreement the other nite and I didnt stop talking when I should have. It wasnt over the A and there was no anger involved. Wife still is very distant to me. We talk alot but she doesnt want affection, touching, or to do anything with me out of house w/o kids. It feels as though I am living with a close roommate and not my wife.
Ran into OM the other nite and had a long talk. At first was very angry but it subsided quickly. He tells me he is avoiding my wife but misses her. I told him their relationship was based on lies and deceit and would never last. I also spoke of how everyones life is screwed up now including his little girl and my 3 boys. I explained my true feelings for my wife to him and told him I am doing everything I can to make marriage continue. I mentioned many times that he should have no contact with my wife or things wont work out. I told him several things my wife has said to let him know how she is in turmoil and that she told me she feels like she is in a quagmire.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You had said enough you sould avoid him too ... no contact. Seeing you remind OM of your W ... telling the well being of W will rekindle the flame. IMVHO, don't take the chances and let him know it is no contact w/ you and W otherwise you will go to his W to tell about it. I admire your coolness, I don't know what to do if I meet him.

Redhat,<p>I tried not to talk to the OM and started to walk away but he kept talking and following and I stopped walking. I should not have talked for so long with him and wont anymore. He says he doesnt love his girlfriend but doesnt want to lose his little girl. Things at home are the same but I wish my wife would want to do some things out of the house with me but I guess she isn't ready yet. I ask if she wants to go somewhere like the movies or a comedy show but she hasnt. We are very cordial and nice to each other but it is still like living with a roommate.
I did ask my wife why she isnt wearing her rings anymore and she said her lawyer told her we were seperated. I told her it REALLY hurt me that she wasnt wearing it. There were no LB's during the conversation. I will not bring the rings up again.
All I can do is be nice because I cant give affection or recreational companionship only conversation. I have been doing alot of activities with the kids and she has complained that I am spending more time with the kids and she hasnt and says I will use that against her.