Torizo,<p>Just think of it you are in the tunnel, you have to focus the end of it. If you wonder like this you are focusing on a fright train's light that will run you over if you do not avoid it. That train is your LB. DO NOT PUSH HER. Get busy on other aspect of your life and not letting any time idle. Get MC that practice MB and also get a support from others too. Someone ( no female )that could be there in a moment notice.

Good advice, I just dropped off her copy of his needs, her needs. and picked up a book for myself, how one of you can bring the two of you together.<p>She'll call me later,and I'm going to tell/ask her to read the book and I will not say another word about our problems or getting back together until she finishes the book, then we will talk about it. In the meantime, after he goes back no NY if she would like to go on a couple "dates" we could do that, and essentially "start over", and make the wrongs between us right.<p>I only hope I'm doing the "right" thing. I'm not trying to "push" her, But perhaps I'm trying too hard?

A quick question : Hypothetically speaking, if she is "willing" (which she seems to be anyways) to read the book, might she still have feelings whether conscious or un-conscious of trying to salvage our M? (because I know the book was an awakening for me).

Almost time to give up I'm afraid...<p>We just got off the phone me and W. Come to find out OM is now "officially" living here and has even proceded to apply for a job near to W friends house where W & OM are staying.<p>She (W) is now almost adamant about leaving me, I "bargained" with her to Read Chapter 13 first then start the book at the beginning, and call me tomorrow with her feelings about it and "us".<p>But now, with him here and her reluctance to stop being with him, It all seems lost.<p>She told me on the phone that she loves him and hasn't loved me for awhile, she don't know when it happened or what changed it, she just don't love me.<p>I have now come to the darkest day in my life...<p>Tomorrow will decide it all. M or D. <p>I unfortunately feel I have done what I could, and only fate can decide it now.<p>Damn, This is all some bad nightmare from which I can't wake up.<p>I will update tomorrow sometime with (Probably my last post).<p>Thank you all for your support, I ask only that you pray for me in my time of need.<p>Time Is Endless...Until You Run Out...

Torizo,
Bookmark your posts and look it up years from now, see what you are missing. You have not heard a squat on what we try to tell you. Good luck.

It's Over...

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Torizo:
<strong>It's Over...</strong><hr></blockquote><p>It is never over ... she was part of yourlife, she might still be in the future. The pain will be there for a while regardless. I pray for you and for your WW and hope that OM is not ready to take her.<p>She choose A, you have no control of it but calling it quit is within your control. My question is what make you arrived to this decision ?. Let it out and don't tune it down. I try to see your point fo view ... you know you are trying too hard. You still love her and focusing on the wrong path.

I'm sorry if I'm trying too hard, and see that, but now its too late, Within a month we wil be going for a seperation agreement and then dissolution of marriage to follow. It is what she wants, and I want her to be happy, and she wants a D.<p>We have agreed, that we both are a BIG part of each others lives, and have agreed to remain friends, even after D.<p>Who knows what the future holds... She or he may discover it to be a mistake, or they may stay together forever. <p>Either way... I stand by her decisions.<p>And I told her, if this is what she wants then she can have it, but I can't put my life on hold for her, I must continue on.
and if the fates decide may we cross paths again, and she understands that.<p>We talked about all this today, and she said she feels bad for all this, but she can't ignore what her heart says for OM. She also said she'd call me tomorrow,because she feels bad for me being alone on christmas.<p>What other choice now do I have But D? <p>She wants it(D), I don't, I beleive we CAN fix our M, But she don't think so.<p>What to do...

Torizo,
Don't feel sorry about your action, you just love her too much and panic. Again it never too late !!!. You got suck right into her fog now. She still have some feeling to you but she is afraid of you too. You make the environment not safe for her to come back.<p>Now, answer me - If WW & you could build fulfilling M better than in the past would you do it ?. Working on it ?. If you do look at MB, read HNHN, SAA also browse though notable posts. I were you I will call MB conseling and make appointment ASAP. I don't think you are do it yourself type.<p>There is nothing new on "wanting a Dv", it is an easy way out for her and also probably for you too. Focus on plan A - list all of her issue(s) on the relation. Read up on LB and avoid it.<p>And I told her, if this is what she wants then she can have it, but I can't put my life on hold for her, I must continue on.
and if the fates decide may we cross paths again, and she understands that.
It is easier for you to work on plan A, you let it go.<p>We talked about all this today, and she said she feels bad for all this, but she can't ignore what her heart says for OM. She also said she'd call me tomorrow,because she feels bad for me being alone on christmas.
She is in the deep fog "I am feeling bad hurting you and I will continue on ?". There is nothing new theme in here. You have to focus on plan A.<p>What other choice now do I have But D?
Plenty, plan A'ng - those alone will get you busy. Dv will take time anyway and she still have to file.<p>She wants it(D), I don't, I beleive we CAN fix our M, But she don't think so.
My WW wants it and I don't, I beleive we CAN fix my M, But she don't think so ... familiar ? that is my story too. I plan A'ng my butt out, she stops saying Dv and once a while I saw confusion in her eyes. I am patience. A will die, show her your love ... let her know you don't want sparation and no demand ask, you just want to work on yourself, fixing yourself so that for your next relation you won't make mistake again. Ask her help to spot what is wrong with relation ... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Get her help to plan A'ng herself !!!. Look at the posting around you, learn, learn, learn and focus.

Red you are a good person, And I'm sorry I'm so "unfocused" and stubborn.<p>I know what I want, and I want her to want the same. Unfortunately in my mind , There's nothing I can really do, until A dies.<p>I tell her I love her, and how much she means to me, and she tells me "she honestly believes I do love her like I say". But she also says "but for her things have changed, she thinks she has fallen for him the way she fell for me" I want to show her I have "learned" from my mistakes, I want to prove to her I have in fact changed. But our only contact now is the phone once in awhile and email. I would like to go on a "date" with her, but she says she can't now, not with OM here, and unfortunately OM is now Moving here from NY, She hasn't said so, but I think they are planning to get a place together. I "feel" it.<p>My hopes are this/these : A will die in one of two ways : 1) She will realize what she had with me, and want to come back. or 20 OM wont be able to deal with her mood swings and assorted problems and get rid of her.<p>The question is will she be willing to fix M then Or will it still head for D?<p>I DO NOT want a D, that is actually the last thing I want, After her Xmas phone call, I think we will have very little contact, if any and maybe she will then realize what she is doing.<p>we shall see...<p>Just in case I don't get back on til' tomorrow, Try and have a good christmas.
And Thank you for "putting up" with me.

Some things just got to be said.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Torizo:
<strong>Red you are a good person, And I'm sorry I'm so "unfocused" and stubborn. </strong><hr></blockquote>Been there. I am as stubborn and unfocused as they come. Ask RedHat.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Torizo:
<strong>I know what I want, and I want her to want the same. Unfortunately in my mind , There's nothing I can really do, until A dies.</strong><hr></blockquote>You can't fix her. I tried for a while to fix my WW. It doesn't work. It's kind of like teaching pigs to sing. It wastes your time and anoy's the pig (RedHats going to love that [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] )<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Torizo:
<strong>I want to show her I have "learned" from my mistakes, I want to prove to her I have in fact changed.</strong><hr></blockquote>She will see this. It may take time. Paitence is all you have now. You will need to make contact with her now and again. She will see these changes then.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Torizo:
<strong>The question is will she be willing to fix M then Or will it still head for D?</strong><hr></blockquote>Unless you show her that she has a safe place to "come home to" she will not come home.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Torizo:
<strong>I DO NOT want a D, that is actually the last thing I want, After her Xmas phone call, I think we will have very little contact, if any and maybe she will then realize what she is doing.<p>we shall see...</strong><hr></blockquote>No, she won't. She may find out that she was happier with you or that she is just unhappy with him. The likelyhood of the "What was I thinking?" realization is slim and may take years if ever. That's not the point. The point is to get past this to a place where you and her can work togeather.<p>You have to step back and work on you. Work plan A it makes you a better H for whoever you end up with (hopefully her). I hate saying this because it was the most difficult lesson to learn. Time is a great healer. Time can repair things that we can't<p>Trying to force a resolution will only work against you.(I know this from experiance) Making yourself more apealing to her will bring you closer, and give you somthing to work on/do in the mean time.<p>My prayers go with you.<p>Thanks
Rev<p>[ December 24, 2001: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

ok lemme see if I get this, To get her back I have to stop trying to change her, I can only change me. <p>How do I "show her" home is a "safe place"? (I think I missed this point somewhere)

How do I "show her" home is a "safe place"? (I think I missed this point somewhere)[/QB][/QUOTE]<p>Don't do or say anything that LB's. (love busts)
When you lb, it will cause her to repel from you. It is her inner defence system that tells her to stay away from you because when she is near you it hurts. When she is with him it feels good. You have to make her feel safe with kind words and actions so that she will be attracted to you the way you where when you first met. This may take time so you will have to practice patience like you never have before. Work on yourself, focus on yourself, take a good look at yourself and forget about them for now. Don't keep calling her, wait for her to call you and when she does, don't talk about OM, the A or any of the such. Tell her what you have learned about yourself and how you are learning the importance of meeting her needs. Tell her that you miss her and hope to see her soon and leave it at that. If she says somthing that hurts, take it with a grain of salt and let it bounce off of you as bad as it may hurt. Let the conversation end with a good note for her to think about, not an angry note for her to make her run to OM.
There is hope, don't throw in the towel so soon.<p>SH

Torizo,
Check out rev journal too ... I have to chase him down more than to you ... I am Californian, minding too much other people bussiness, couldn't you tell [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . Again look around this forum, there are many past your path, worst path than yours and still recover. Listen to stilhurts, check up people profiles, you will see that you are throwing the towel too early.

Thanks SH, She is the one who initiates most calls, though now it's going to be all calls. I try to say how much I love her, and how much she means to me. I have even done some searching in my soul and have realized it has been an honor to be with her, and I tell her that every chance I get. I don't know if its absolutely the "right" thing to do, but At least I get an emotional response then. When I talked to her earlier, she answered the phone crying, I asked her what was wrong? and she said she was thinking of me and how it must feel to be alone for the holiday, and how if it was her she couldn't deal with it the way I am, I simply told her, yes it hurts to not have you here, but it's the love I have for you that keeps me going. and she kinda sobbed at that but didn't say anything.
We now rarely talk about A and OM anymore, her talk seems to be focused on D, which we talked about as well, neither of us has the $$$ for it right now, and she told me there is no real hurry.<p>Women are sooo confusing sometimes.<p>I know what I haven't done for her, and I've told her that, and it doesn't seem to affect her any.<p>I just wish she would meet me somewher, so we can talk face to face or maybe spend some time together. but I know it won't happen, she's too involved in OM.<p>So I guess now I work on me, and kind of put her "on the back burner" so to speak, until she calls me, then I can tell her how much she means to me, and how much I care, and how I want her to be "happy".<p>oh, and no LB.<p>Thank you all for the support.

Torizo,
I don't Christmas present from my WW but you just gave me one. Learn from rev, his W is similar to yours ... need a lot of carefull handeling. This is the day of your enlightment as rev called his.
About W, "She love you but not in love with you", a fogese talk, what you do is make her in love again with you and MB will equip you with it. You know that you are way ahead than me & rev on your relation ?. Go for it, she still have a deep feeling for you. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

the thing is, how do I make her "in love" with me again. Things have changed alot in four years, But I think I'm rediscovering it now, I only wish I had some time "with" her, together, But I suppose that will come in time, Now I can only tell her what she means to me and how much I love her, I suppose enough of that and not focusing on A, OM, or D right now, and I may just be able to "reach" her.<p>Wait a minute, is this what you would call enlightenment? where you realize your "mission"?<p>I can't say it enough, you all are wonderful people. Without you, I don't know where I'd be now. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Torizo,<p>Wait a minute, is this what you would call enlightenment? where you realize your "mission"?<p>enlightenment is rev's term, not mine [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] I can't take credit for it. I am a lost soul and my LORD has to smack me in the head to bring me back and HE has something for me, a ministry to help trouble M, I will volunteer in my church once I sort my M out & going through MB training. I do not think I will be very effective if I have not walk through it, no one will understood the pain that BS endured. I compelled by your posting and my presistant payoff. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Now you are ready to work on your M and when you are ready I hope you return the favor to help others (as part of your healing). God Bless you and Merry Christmas.

I truly am ready to work on my M but now she has to want the same. Until then, Here I stay on the MB, for advice, and perhaps to give advice.<p>Good luck to all, have a merry christmas, and god bless.

we just got off the phone, we said merry christmas to each other, (she was very sad)and told each other to say merry christmas to our respective families. I asked her how she was, and spent the next 5 minutes telling her how much she means to me, how much I love her, and that my heart and home are always open to her, as well as if she ever needs someone to talk to, I'm always here for her. I could hear the sadness in her voice as she spoke, I told her I love her very much and her reply is always "I don't doubt that and I never have."and she said she had to go, I told her I love her again, and we said our goodbyes...<p>I miss her...<p>But, I must go on...I have to keep positive, and keep telling her How much she means to me, whenever I can.<p>Merry Christmas Everyone,and God Bless.