Hi T,<p>It's not just the quantity, it's the quality. <p>Remember that. So if you are busy, working to provide for your family and you don't make the 15 hour mark. You will not be fired for being a bad H or father, if you make the time you do spend quality time. <p>I mean some people think bonding time is sitting on a couch with the other one in the chair not speaking all night and watching TV. Not quality time. <p>So think of ways to make it memorable. That can cause anticipation for the next 'quality moment'! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>L.

All very good advice. So I guess, Provided she don't mind I'm going to take this job.<p>It's a time for new beginnings so to speak, new job, new career field for me, new marriage, and a new me.<p>Wow, talk about introspection...<p>Thank you all.

Ya know, I'll never look at two words the same ever again, Waffling, and fog. They will never have a "normal" meaning. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Anyways...I talked to W about the job and if she had any problems with the hours and such, She said I should take the job(For the $$$) and the hours wouldn't bother her that much, if at all.<p>So ther is one "problem" out of the way. We also talked about us, Now comes the part I hate, She is waffling now, Earlier in the morning phone call, she sounded like she had made up her mind TO come home, She misses me, she loves me, she wants to make this work. Now, she says she hasn't made up her mind TO come home, she says she is THINKING of coming home.(WTF is that about?) and she hasn't told OM her "true" intentions.<p>Why oh why, does this have to be a "chore" would you just make up your mind already? In two weeks and one day she will have been gone two full months, She has had plenty of time to think about this, now figure out what you want already. Geez... [Sorry for Venting like that, It just Pi$$3s me off] How one can be so undecided in such a short time.<p>So, now it's back to square 1 1/2, For her to "decide" what she wants.<p>I'm about ready to take a drive, and smack some sense into OM. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>But, alas I am more man than that, and thus I have refrained from causing him bodily harm, so far.....<p>So, Now What???<p>[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: Torizo ]</p>

Now what?!?!? You have done your part for now. Find a good movie. Go the gym. Post to someone here who needs help. Bug Red Hat. Clean the house (oops that's my choice of torture tonight - he he he). Rearrange your furniture (that might be an LB or a refreshing change. Get some rest. <p>Maybe others will have other ideas!!<p>L.

You do make me smile, I have done all of that except bug Redhat. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If I only had some phone numbers.... Just Kidding. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Anyways, I told W I would send her som info from SAA, and she said that it was ok. I sent her all four rules, Time, honesty, protection, and care. as well as maritial recovery agreement, how to end an A the right way,Managing resentment and restoring trust. You get the idea. I got bored one evening last week and typed all these things out in MS word. (It helps to essentially memorize them all), guess they had other plusses too. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>So now it's back to waiting once again... Maybe I'll get my lazy @$$ up tomorrow and go see LotR again.<p>Good luck with house tonight O, I did mine in the first two weeks after W left, I must say, I got rid of alot of "garbage" I just did not need. and with all of her stuff gone, there's even less to worry about around here.<p>But, I do miss her, and wish to God that she would make up her mind, The "waiting game" is driving me crazy.<p>But, Gotta hang in there.

Torizo,
I am sneezing ... someone calling my name. I am not that easy being bugged, I am the nosy one ... CA style. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . While you are waiting you could get my update & evnting [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] (hijack your thread). This morning I have my conseling w/ SH. I already knew what he is going to say about the whole skiing trip & LB'ed situation. You are doing fine and hang in there, your plan A is taking effect. I don't even see a shread of light ... my tunnel is still dark, and is getting pitch dark !. SH agreed for me to get an attorney to check on child custody but only as info and not to tell WW about it, even if I could file separation and get temporary custody, a step to physical custody. He is a purist on MB ... Thy shall not use anything to interfere w/ A. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] No disrepect but I don't think he taste the 'coaster ride as a BS ... I don't even bring up the missing person report, I knew the answer. So here I am trying to do plan A'ng my gut out.<p>My WW didn't join my 2 D "pick a restaurant night" again ... going to get her "medicine", she said. I notice she is wearing pearl earring (her Christmas present from me). I didn't even get a card or greeting and she is wearing it to go out w/ OM ?. I don't know where I got the stomach to kiss her on the cheek and walked away w/o LB. I know I won't see her 'till probably Sunday noon (lower expectation work well with my no LB trick). I told SH that WW always turns the dial pain one more stripe up when I could handle it. He still told me to improve my plan A !!!!, improve the changes I have made one knot higher every time. Arrrgh, even half of me make BE prowling !!!. I think I am too honest w/ SH, I should give him indications that I am running of breath. He might allow me to go to plan B in a hurry. Probably also my mistake of telling SH that WW is coached by OM (2x Dv) to destroy my M, SH won't take any chances.
Enough venting. T, now you know where I learn to look thing from a strange angle. - Nope, I am not a doormat, I am letting her go completely. -<p>Now after a few grande margaritas at fresh mex-Chevy's, I feel lighten up a bit. I am ready to watch the SCORE that I just picked up from Blockbuster. Of course after lurking some other posts.<p>[ January 05, 2002: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

I guess after that all said and done, it does take a "strange" viewpoint.<p>All I can say is hang in there.<p>Because thats all I can do at the moment, Here I thought W WAS ready to come home, now she says she is THINKING of coming home.<p>The fog is creeping back in...<p>
I am starting to feel now, that she really isn't coming home, and the longer she is away, the less it matters. I still love her, but it is not as intense of a feeling as it was just Two short months ago. I feel as if I have already lost her, and nothing I can do now will bring her back. Is this a "normal" feeling? am I perceiving this the "right" way?<p>I just don't know anymore... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ January 05, 2002: Message edited by: Torizo ]</p>

The roller coaster rides in your part of the woods!!! <p>Feels yucky?!?? I am sorry for this turn of events. But your being aware or warned helps reduce the impact. Instead of being in shock/anxiety then anger/frustration, etc. you may be able to jump farther down the road and handle the stress a bit better. It doesn't make it go away just handle it better. <p>IMHO, you are doing good. You have support and able to keep a fairly level head so far. That is GOOD!!! <p>What lies ahead is anyone's guess. The roller coaster is in the fog so we can't always see where it is headed. Makes the ride more scary and we don't even have access to the controls!! <p>I hope she rethinks or even thinks period! When her gray cells start working your chances of recovery for your M may improve. At least you know you are becoming a better person. Let that be your source of encouragment for now. DON'T FORGET!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Take Care,
L.

Yes, hang on. It is a downward 'coaster. You just have to ride it, no choice. WW will comes around again when they are out of it a bit. Now, go see Vanilla Sky and tell me about it [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .

I don't know about vanilla sky, But I did go see LotR again. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I may be doing good, and I may be hanging on for now, but I just can't do this anymore, I feel like...for her this is all "fun and games", but for me it is torture. I can't stand to be caught up in this "game" anymore. I want to tell her to mak up her damn mind already, either come home or get rid of me, I feel I'm being led around on a string, and I just can't do it...<p>I have to have some "direction" in life, not this "Limbo" I'm in. <p>I feel, I can no longer "better" my chances of her coming home. I have made me a better person through all of this, but she gets me and him, it's "playtime" for her right now, and I want it to be over. she knows damn well when she gets done "playing" that I'll be right there to take her back,(not without conditions of course).<p>I sooooo want her to feel pain like I have felt, Though I know in my heart that I'm not that cruel. I sooooo want to go where they are and beat the F@#$ out of OM for coming in between our M. But I don't think it would do any good.<p>I'm tired of feeling helpless, and I hate this other feeling too. It's like the love for her is no longer slowly draining out of the LB$, now, anytime I think of them together it falls out in chunks, If I were to give it amounts, it used to be 3-4 LB$ here and there now its like 30-40 LB$ when I think of them, and how in her mind this "game" she is playing.<p>I know it shouldn't bother me, but it is starting to, She has been gone from our "home" for 1 1/2 months so far... and there is very little to believe in, or to hope for.<p>I'm sorry if I vent, but there is no one else to talk to who understands. Monday I'm probably going to take this job, just for the sheer spite of it. The salary from the new position after 1 year is 3 times what I made at my last job, I feel the need to take it, just so in the meantime of her "game" I can live somewhat happily. while she can suffer with him. When we were together, I was her Financial Support, if she needed something, anything at all, I got it for her, even at the cost of my happiness, I never MADE her get a job, and since we moved where we are, she has worked a total of 1 month, out of 8 we have been here. Now, she is "trying" to make a life with someone who, don't even have a job right now, let alone buy her everything. I know I know, Money isn't everything, you are right, but she IS giving that up. <p>I want to be ther for her, I want to work on our M, But I can't hold on forever, and personally, when he is around her, she seems to care about HIS needs and respects HIM more than me, and I have spent 4 years with her, That F&*^ing P!$$3s me off even more.<p>I want to tell her these things but I can't because it would be LB big time.<p>I don't know what to do, and I don't know how to express these concerns in a non-LB way...<p>Guess I'm F*&^ed until SHE decides what to do. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img]

Well, I don't think that addressing those issues have to be an LB. You know what I found??? The more I did for my H the less he appreciate us. <p>I was enabling him, I was his crutch and in his selfish mode he was going to take advantage of me all the way. He even said so but didn't understand why he was doing it. He was confused and mad at himself but said he also couldn't help it. Crazy?? Dumb???? Fog????? Yes, yes yes. <p>So I started giving him more responsibility and that is where we are now. He is doing more feeling more a part of the family and appears to be headed in the right direction. For the first time he told me that he appreciated how much I have been working to keep the family afloat. I had thanked him for helping me with a problem and he replied that he did not do as much as I had. While this was true, the teamwork made it possible for both of us to accomplish this task and I mentioned that to him. He seemed to like that thought. <p>Slo and steady...... <p>Take Care,
L.

My isuue is, I want her home, and she doesn't know what to do, I want her home, I told her what I have learned about myself, MB and all of you, But she is also worried about how OM feels. <p>Ya know, I should be "more" important in her life, F#$% OM, he knew what he was getting into by meeting a married woman, he knew that it had to end some time, so don't hand me some bs line about his feelings. He knew and so did you, those are the consequences of an A. Period.<p>I want to make that a point to her. She does not realize the pain and suffering of me, I at least have some grasp on the pain I have caused her, and I of course can't be positive, but I'm sure it has paled in comparison to the pain of the A.<p>I am just worn out from this "game" they play. I want her to make up her F#$%ing mind, she has had six weeks now to Love him, sc#$w him. whatever she has wanted to do, all the time, I sit here, trying to get a better job, hold our bills together, and make a place for "our" future, what gratitude have I got? none, not a damn thing, I'm tired of being "on the side" to OM, it is time she realized it is NOT a "game" anymore. I have tolerated it long enough already. Now it is time, him or me, chose one. <p>That is how I feel.<p>I am very quickly approaching the end of my rope. I can not, no will not hold on forever.<p>Is there any "last resort" without LB? or do I really have "no choice" here? I want her back, but I can't remain in limbo...<p>Update : Talked To W, said she loves me and doesn't know what to do with her situation, She says she feels stuck, she knows it is her fault, and doesn't know what to do...Then she tells me she will call me tomorrow after church. (This floors me, I have been asked once or twice in the past two years to go to church, I have said no, but it was because I was blind to her needs. I know its no excuse, but that is my only defense. Since the beginning of this A, I have become somewhat religious, praying ect. but now she is going to church with OM, and it hurts me to think of this.) also, how ironic, one cheating spouse and the other a low life scum sucking man who couldn't even find his own woman and has to "take" someone elses. and they are in church, together at that. I think God hates me, he is "letting" this happen. (I get the picture big guy, I screwed up and wasn't there for my wife, I realize that, what more do you want from me? Priesthood?) anyways, so this hurts and just adds to the pain I already feel.<p>So I guess W and me are going to talk tomorrow(if she truly calls).<p>I am so tired, I am mentally worn out at this point. I can't remember a time in my life that I felt like this.<p>My mind aches....<p>[ January 05, 2002: Message edited by: Torizo ]</p>

Wait..... how God views people and what people think how God views them are 2 very different things. <p>The Bible says God hates a divorcing and that adultery is a sin. So showing up in church does not absolve the sin. K?<p>You do what you know is right. You are not a saint but your current lifestyle does not promote adultery either. So if they go to church or not is not something you need to think that God approves of. They are just going to church. Individually they need to make their amends with God. <p>When the elders spoke with us, they said that adultery is the one sin that God allows the BS to forgive. So it is not just up to God, it is also up to you. That was not their opinion, it is backed up by scripture. <p>L.

I'm sorry O, I was venting and got "caught up" in the typing. I did not mean it that way.<p>what I meant is I feel that I have done something wrong in God's eyes. I know he hates divorce and adultery is a sin. so why does it happen?<p>I am willing to forgive my W for what has been done, but it makes me mad that she is going to church with OM, when it SHOULD be me next to her.<p>(Not that it looks bad, considering she isn't wearing her ring)<p>I'm just upset, it seems like she so likes the life she chooses to keep living, with only short breaks in it called reality. I'm losing love for her rapidly now, and I feel there is no way to stop it, her A NEEDS to come to an end soon, or I fear I will have no will to care about it anymore.<p>Though her Love Bank account isn't in the Red yet, it will be soon, if she doesn't stop the A, I want to tell her, or have someone tell her. I just don't know how, and have no one to do it for me.<p>The clock is ticking, and time is running out...<p>[ January 05, 2002: Message edited by: Torizo ]</p>

Torizo,<p>HE gave us choice, even Lucifer & Angels have choice. WW choose to have A and we choose to fight the A. With your WW, it shows how deep of a fog she is in right now. Having adulterous life and going to HIS HOUSE ???.<p>Actually your WW is not having good time at all time. There are times when WS wonders too, remember you can not get high all the time and sooner or later the addiction needs higher dose !!!!. They are confused. When with OM they are happy but w/ your plan A'ng, WW get confused and start wondering. W/ no LB, you make your WW stares at A point blank. Waffling is common as a side effect.<p>Do not LB'ed tommorow talking to W, do not even mention about Relation at all. Talk about going to see Vanilla Sky or LoTHR !!!. Listen Torizo, you have come this close don't blew it up. OM & WW don't hold job ... how long they could stand it ? and living on WW's freind's place ... how long do you think before the hosts LB'ed ?. When I read your first few posts she want to Dv you !!! and not talking to you. Now she is waffeling meaning that she is confused. She is talking w/ you and considering to go out. You are about to have better $$$ and resolving your finance. Wait a bit longer and make sure you plan up for plan B. At least will get you busy for a while.<p>Stand firm on no contact & working on M as a condition otherwise either keep plan A'ng or move on to plan B.

[Though her Love Bank account isn't in the Red yet, it will be soon, if she doesn't stop the A, I want to tell her, or have someone tell her. I just don't know how, and have no one to do it for me.]<p>T,
Hang in there man you've come a long way don't give up now.
I would like to respond to your quote above.<p>Did you ever consider to ask God to tell her?
You have been a righteous man throughout this whole thing and the Bible does say "The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective." James 5:16<p>You say that church and religion was one of your wifes needs?<p>Pray for a complete healing of your marriage if you havn't allready and when she calls you tell her what you have said here about getting closer to God, tell her that you have been praying alot lately and while you have her on the phone, ask her, no tell her that you want to pray with her right now. If she gives you the chance good, go with it and emediatly begin to pray out loud first giveing thanks for protecting her and keeping her safe, ask God again to heal your marriage and make it possible for love and happieness to return to your relationship in Jesus name amen. Thats it, it doesn't have to be long and complicated, this is how God wants us to pray.
She may not like it at first because she might feel convicted but remember, "the prayer of a righteous man is POWERFUL and EFFECTIVE"<p>
God Bless, I'll pray for you too.<p>SH

Thank you all, I will talk to her today, no LBs, and the prayer idea is good. I am hanging on, and I will perservere through this.<p>Yesterday was just a bad day, I needed to vent, and I did. I feel in a more "calm & peaceful" mood today.<p>I am ready to give it my all, with all of my resolve and all of my will, and with God's grace, May He make our lives "good" again, and may we find happiness in each other and in Him. Our lord Jesus Christ, Amen.<p>I want to thank you all for being here, and helping me through my troubled times.
I want to return the favor somehow, and either way my M goes, I will still be here at MB, to pass on the wisdom that has been given to me.<p>Wish me luck...and pray...

Torizo,<p>I am so sorry. I was thinking of you this weekend and hopin all was going well with you. Don't give up. You have come a long way. W is thinking about things. I also have the feeling she will begin to start thinking about OM w/o a job. I am sure it is fun for now. He can give attentions 24/7. But in the long run... [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Hang in there Torizo. I am not one to really be able to give adice but your situation does not sound hopeless. I understand your frustration at how much can one person take and for how long. Only you know that answer.<p>Perdu

Thanks P, I'm trying to hang on,trying I say... [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I hope she has some "good" news today on the phone.

And so the fog thickens...I just called W, she said she was on her way out the door. <p>So i asked her "where she was going to?", she said "12:30 mass". (Sounds fishy) So I asked her why she didn't call me at 11:00. Her response, (You'll like this) "I thought I said I would call you at 1:00?" my response to that "no you said you would call me at 11:00 after you got back from church". her response to that "no I'm pretty sure I said I would call you at 1:00" So I left it at that.<p>Ok, if she is going to mass @ 12:30 she couldn't possibly say she is going to call me at 1:00, and not be lying.<p>So I asked her "when are you going to call me back?" she said "3:00-4:00. (Wow thats some long mass). So I told her I love her,and I miss her, and that I will talk to her later.<p>It pi$$3$ me off to know she is lying to me, and I have a good mind to tell her to stay with OM if he makes you so F#$%ing happpy. But I love her too much still to do that, and besides, I want her to do D papers, that way when she "wakes up" and realizes it's a mistake,(Or A dies) and she should have stayed with me, or at least given me the chance to try to make M better, she can deal with the hurt it will cause.<p>I know it is an act of revenge, and I never have wanted to cause her any kind of pain, I think it is the worst pain I can inflict on her, short of my own A, (Which I would never do).<p>I at least still wear my ring, and am totally commited to our M vows (At least one of us is [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>I have prayed to God for help, and the will to understand this, I have prayed for her to have a clear mind and heart in order to "see", I have poured my heart out to God. Yet this still continues. Why God, why must this continue? I understand what I have done wrong, I am comitted to M, please help her now, help my wife to understand...In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.<p>I'm losing hope, and love...and I fear M will follow...