Torizo,<p>Here is my old link if it will help you. T why don't you go out from the house, go to Rock 'N Roll Hall of Fame or something. Did you go to church to day ? I need someone to tell me about Vanilla Sky.<p>Hey, hope the ring that you are wearing is not "the Master Ring - The One Ring that rule them all". [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ...<p>About your WW, when you call, put a lower expectation. You know they are under the spell of A, they will cheat, lie, deceive and do thing that is not themself. Go out from the house, do something that you could talk about to WW. I have not see the Flat yet, just when they clean up the area I was graduated from CaseW. You are the clear headed one, hold on and put a time line (don't tell WW). Don't call her for now and let her call you.

After I find out about the job tomorrow, I'll decide when to go see it. either tuesday or next sunday. I haven't decided yet.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Hey, hope the ring that you are wearing is not "the Master Ring - The One Ring that rule them all". <hr></blockquote><p>Nope, not that ring my friend. I wear a ring that is supposed to symbolize love, trust, and hope. It does symbolize that for me, and also the goal I am looking to attain : A better M, and the whole reason, I am doing all this. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Se has yet to call back, and I am sitting here watching tv, and the snow falling outside. I'm going to cook something for dinner in a bit, and hopefully W will have something good to say. but I won't get my hopes up.

W called me, just now. <p>She said it's over, she doesn't want to work our M out, She is in love with OM, and she has a new life now.(Those were her exact words)<p>She said as soon as she gets money she is going to file(could take six months, as she nor OM have jobs and have no money)<p>At this point I am ready to file myself, whatever love was left in the LoveBank is gone, The bank is broke. There is only an empty space left in my heart, and in time, it will mend.<p>Thank you all... for trying to help me through this...and for being there for me...I am eternally indebted to you all...But it was to no avail, in saving this M. at least, I am a better person, but it is small consolation to this loss...<p>I can't believe it... after all this time trying...<p>It's over.<p>[ January 06, 2002: Message edited by: Torizo ]</p>

Torizo,
Sorry to hear this but how the conversation started ?. do you push her ?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>At this point I am ready to file myself, whatever love was left in the LoveBank is gone, The bank is broke. There is only an empty space left in my heart, and in time, it will mend.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Do not file it yourself, let her do it.<p>How do you parted ?. detail please. And consider plan B so that your effort on plan A is not wasted.

Dear T,<p>I can see you are really hurting now. In this time of your pain, I would like to ask you to do me a favor..... please step back and note that even her current babbling (love om stuff) is another swing in the pendelum. <p>You are well within your right to stop the M now. But I ask you to let it settle and note if it will swing again the other way. If you can, it may be worth the wait. If you can not, no one is going to blame you. For you have done your best in this horrible waiting game. <p>Please don't stop posting here. We are concerned about you. <p>Take Care,
L.

T,<p>Man I got to tell you, I'm in the same boat. I havn't been posting lately b/c it has been the same old crap. W said she would stay with me the other night. I thought "finaly, she has made a sollid commitment, none of that mabey crap." Then, when she showed up she didn't know what she wanted, and to top it off, in order to decide what she wanted, she headed right back to OM's house.<p>I think you and I are both well within our rights to file for D. I think Orchid would agree that no one would foult either of us for doing that. Remember this though: If we file today, it is probably the LB of all time. There is realy no turning back after that. I like to keep my options open. As long as I don't file I have specific options. If I file, those options dissapear. Others come about, but not the ones I have now.<p>You have worked very hard and have made great progress. Don't let a setback destroy all you have done. <p>Do what you feel is best for you, but remember the future, and all the options it has, depends on how you handle yourself right now.<p>Thanks,
Rev<p>[ January 06, 2002: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

Hi all, sorry I posted this late, I have spent the past, 4 hours on the phone with an old friend, talking about what happened, and catching up on life.<p>Redhat,
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Sorry to hear this but how the conversation started ?. do you push her ?<hr></blockquote><p>She just called me up, and basically said "It's over, I do not want to try and work on M any longer, I am with James now, And I am happy. I do not believe you can change in six weeks, let alone change at all, I just can't do this anymore.<p>And She said Goodbye, and hung up.<p>I did not push her into the decision, she has made it herself...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>And consider plan B so that your effort on plan A is not wasted. <hr></blockquote><p>There is no more to do, I will plan B now, because I have NO intent of contacting her. there is VERY little love in the Lovebank, I think I realized that today.<p>But is there a point to Plan B now? She essentially wants out of M now.<p>Orchid,
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I would like to ask you to do me a favor..... please step back and note that even her current babbling (love om stuff) is another swing in the pendelum <hr></blockquote><p>I only hope you are right...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> You are well within your right to stop the M now. But I ask you to let it settle and note if it will swing again the other way. If you can, it may be worth the wait. If you can not, no one is going to blame you. For you have done your best in this horrible waiting game. <hr></blockquote><p>I, even after all of this am still going to hang on...Until the papers are final(Though I doubt she will change her mind any), there is still a ray of hope. But I will no longer contact her, she will have to contact me.<p>
Rev,
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I like to keep my options open. As long as I don't file I have specific options. If I file, those options dissapear. Others come about, but not the ones I have now.
<hr></blockquote><p>That is very true, I fully agree with that.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Don't let a setback destroy all you have done.
Do what you feel is best for you, but remember the future, and all the options it has, depends on how you handle yourself right now <hr></blockquote><p>At the very least, I know I have changed for the better. If it can't "save" this marriage, at least it will help me to "Better care for" whoever I am with in the future.<p>Thank you all, I will continue to update anything else(as little as there is) about W and Situation. I will not leave MB, I have work to do here, helping others to hopefully avoid this.<p>All of you mean alot to me, And I am thankful for you. May God bless each one of your lives, as he has blessed mine to find you.Amen.<p>BTW : I talked to MIL last night, she has told W to send back the ring(Which is MIL's) and W has yet to send it back. (lack of $$$, I don't know)But as soon as she does send them back, then I at least know W is serious about D.<p>Goodnight all, I will be back tomorrow. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Job Update : Talked to company, They have a few more interviews, and the will definately let me know on thursday. Oh, I hope I get it.Wish Me Luck. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ January 07, 2002: Message edited by: Torizo ]</p>

Torizo,
Driven by my curious nature, one of this day will kill me [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .... what W meant by "change" in her statement I do not believe you can change in six weeks, let alone change at all. What didn't she see ?. You end plan A when WS acknowledge your changes but still waffle w/ starting plan B. Don't get me wrong in here, you also end plan A if your LB$ is in the red zone. Just wanted to know so that "the change" is the one that you should carry on w/o her so that for the next relation you are completely irresistable. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Yes, there is a point to plan B. You put your bet on your past memory with her and slight taste of the future while you are plan A'ng. It is the last resort. Also, you never know, 6 months is a long time, 6x30x24x60x60 seconds [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . A might die. Just curious, how do you think she & OM lived w/o job ?. The very selfishness that lead to A will kill A ... w/ time.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>BTW : I talked to MIL last night, she has told W to send back the ring(Which is MIL's) and W has yet to send it back. (lack of $$$, I don't know)But as soon as she does send them back, then I at least know W is serious about D.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Don't read anything into it. When the fog is in, you better beleive what they are capable of doing.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Job Update : Talked to company, They have a few more interviews, and the will definately let me know on thursday. Oh, I hope I get it.Wish Me Luck.</strong><hr></blockquote>
At least the new job will get you out of the house [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .

T, <p>How are you doing tonight?<p>L.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> what W meant by "change" in her statement I do not believe you can change in six weeks, let alone change at all. What didn't she see ?. <hr></blockquote><p>From what I can make of it, apparently she cant see how I have changed in these six weeks(Kind of hard to show the full potential of changes when I am not around her) an I guess she doesn't think I am capable of change. I have been nothing but sweet towards her, caring, listening intently to what she says, and no LBs, So I don't understand it myself. (I think she wants a "reason" to end our M, and this is her excuse to do so.)<p>I will still continue to make me a better person, even if the changes can't save this M, They can be appreciated in the next relationship...Hopefully.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Just curious, how do you think she & OM lived w/o job ?. The very selfishness that lead to A will kill A ... w/ time.
<hr></blockquote><p>I guess her friend is supporting them, My W does housework, babysits, and cooks in exchange for living there, and her friend buys whatever W and OM need to live. (It must be nice to have friends like that, If I can't pay for what I need, I have no one to help me out.<p>I only hope A dies, before D is final. and even then there is no guarantee to W coming back,I think she honestly does not want to work on M, and this is her "easy" out. (I am of course basing this on our last conversation)<p>I don't know what to think of this situation any more. I hope she is "happy" with the decisions she is making right now.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> How are you doing tonight? <hr></blockquote><p>Hey O, I'm doing better today than yesterday.
I was invited over to a friends house(just to get out of my house) and me her and her husband sat around and bs'd for awhile, and watched TV, It was a change to be out of here, and it felt good to "get away" for awhile. <p>But, here I am again, with my new friends, and if I might personally say, what seems like family. I cannot thank you all enough. <p>BTW - I sen Plan B letter to W today, both Email(she rarely checks it) and Snail mail. I wonder if it will get any reaction from her?<p>Have a good evening, and God bless.

Torizo,<p>I read this after I wrote it and thought it may work for you, and it may not. Mabey someone else can gain from it. Remember, we take what we need from this board and leave the rest. Feel free to leave all of this if you want. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>T,<p>I'm feeling a bit left out here, and I can't keep up with this thread to save my back side.<p>This ring thing, got me to thinking. I don't know squat about this ring, and I'm not going back to find out. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] What did catch my eye, is that MIL wants it back after finding out about A. It seems to me that now her family is involved, and not very happy about it. This goes back to the "6 mo. after exposure" issue.<p>I know I have that way of saying things a bit backwards, and mabey a bit course or offensive, but most people can figure out what I'm trying to get accross. I'm going to do it again, so bear with me.<p>1. No jobs.
I don't think that life is going to get any easier for this R in the future. Love is important, but the human animal will forgo love and sex for shelter. They have also been known to eat loved ones under extream situations. My point here is how long can this situation continue before it destroys itself.<p>2. Family division.
My mom and dad have always been there for me. Unless I was doing something that they dissaproved of. If MIL is not happy about this, I imagine FIL is as unhappy. Unhappy parents don't loan money as easily as happy ones, and without jobs, repayment is difficult. This only adds to the no job issue. add that to this thought: My parrents are also realy good at letting me know when they don't approve of what I'm doing, and making me feel real bad about it. (I wish my MIL would be as convincing as my parents)<p>Too me, the deck is stacked against the A. I wouldn't want to be in that situation for long. I also know that sometimes it takes a while to figure out how bad things are, and sometimes things need to get prety bad before a person evaluates the situation. Every night around the world there are rooms full of people who know how bad life needs to be, and how long it needs to be that bad to make a person change behavior. Their called AA meetings. These same rooms and people are proof that when life gets bad enough, people change their environment. She will change her world eventualy. She will have a choice to start a compleatly new life, return to a life she knows she doesn't like, or start a new life with someone she has learned can meet her needs. Like it or not, she's not going back to the life she left. She may start a new life, but I would think it would be easier to return to a life where she already knows her needs will be met and she will be happy again.<p>Just somthing to think about.<p>Thanks,
Rev

Rev,
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>1. No jobs.
I don't think that life is going to get any easier for this R in the future. Love is important, but the human animal will forgo love and sex for shelter. They have also been known to eat loved ones under extream situations. My point here is how long can this situation continue before it destroys itself. <hr></blockquote><p>I laughed at this one, Eat loved ones, I don't know why it just sounded funny in my brain.<p>OM is supposed to find out today about a job, I of course don't know if he got it, as I am not calling W anymore. She can call me from now on.<p>As for the "ring" the ring she has for wedding ring is her mother's, and her mom (My MIL) would like to have it back if W is serious about this. She(MIL) is going to try to contact W tommorrow. As for FIL, he could care less about W, MIL & FIL are divorced.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> She will change her world eventualy. She will have a choice to start a compleatly new life, return to a life she knows she doesn't like, or start a new life with someone she has learned can meet her needs. Like it or not, she's not going back to the life she left. She may start a new life, but I would think it would be easier to return to a life where she already knows her needs will be met and she will be happy again.
<hr></blockquote><p>I don't want our life to be as it was, I want to make our marriage based on MB principals. She has said, I didn't meet her needs, I know what they are and want to meet them. But, she won't give me the chance. She says she is happy with OM, because he meets her emotional needs, and that is what her decision to End M is based upon, He meets her needs, and I didn't, she can't see beyond him.(Ironically, the way she is acting with hime, in love, happy, can't get enough of hime, is EXACTALLY how our relationship started out, I mean absolutely, 100% the same) and that has me worried, because I know how "devoted" to me she was, and that is why I fear this is it for "us".<p>I may have read what you said wrong Rev, but are you saying it is easier for her to stay in the life she has with OM, or it is easier to come back to me, so long as I meet her needs? I am a little confused... [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

T,<p>Didn't mean to confuse you. 2 out of 3 aint bad.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I don't want our life to be as it was, I want to make our marriage based on MB principals.<hr></blockquote>That is exactly what I was looking for. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>she can't see beyond him.(Ironically, the way she is acting with hime, in love, happy, can't get enough of hime, is EXACTALLY how our relationship started out, I mean absolutely, 100% the same) and that has me worried, because I know how "devoted" to me she was, and that is why I fear this is it for "us".<hr></blockquote>This isn't so bad. Don't take this wrong. You wouldn't be here if your M hadn't fallen apart. Why did it fall apart? ENs. Again, what does he know about EN's, especialy hers, and at this point, why should he care? You still have the advantage my friend. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I may have read what you said wrong Rev, but are you saying it is easier for her to stay in the life she has with OM, or it is easier to come back to me, so long as I meet her needs? I am a little confused...<hr></blockquote>All I meant was, if the life she has with OM falls apart,(looks like it will) she will have to go somewhere. Her choices are 1. a new and diffrent life.(Scary) 2. The old you.(I don't think so) 3. The new you. (familiar, but better) What would would you do? And the more familiar and better it is, the better it is for you.<p>Keep smiling.<p>Thanks
Rev<p>[ January 07, 2002: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

T,<p>Rev has been too long living in the farm his word make me smile too [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] "They have also been known to eat loved ones under extream situations". Yes, A won't last for that very reason.<p>WS will say anything to push you back. Just wait until she file. Good thing that you are in a very good spirit entering this plan B.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I don't want our life to be as it was, I want to make our marriage based on MB principals. She has said, I didn't meet her needs, I know what they are and want to meet them. But, she won't give me the chance. She says she is happy with OM, because he meets her emotional needs, and that is what her decision to End M is based upon, He meets her needs, and I didn't, she can't see beyond him.(Ironically, the way she is acting with hime, in love, happy, can't get enough of hime, is EXACTALLY how our relationship started out, I mean absolutely, 100% the same) and that has me worried, because I know how "devoted" to me she was, and that is why I fear this is it for "us".</strong><hr></blockquote>
Every one in love will do the same thing, no exceptions. But A will burn out when reality hits. You have to make sure that you keep your focus.<p>Check my new link on my sig ... A WS letter to WS but it helps BS too.

Hey guys,<p>I just want you to know that, as "jacked up" (more Nebraska slang) as our situations are, it's good to know that we all can still laugh.<p>Thanks,
Rev<p>[ January 08, 2002: Message edited by: rev ]</p>

rev,
What is your situation ? any update ?

'eat loved ones'.....YUCK..... cannablism!! Oh yea, that's right in the fog we taste like chicken?!?!?!? LOL!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Vensuian antennas going up here!!! Your W likes being a maid and baby sitter?!?!?!? How fulfilling? I'm sorry but if a man met my need but I had to be someone elses' maid and baby sitter to get that done, I'd run out soo fast, I'd be out in a blink! <p>Somethings' missin here. Like a viable A that will last for a lifetime. T, it is only a matter of time. Even maids need to get paid. So when you D and she has to show income, who is going to pay her taxes? How will she get medical/dental and auto insurance? Is this friend willing to pay the employer taxes for her? Household workers are suppose to be taxed. Hm...... federal case in the making here???? Maybe the fogese educational center has an answer for these low level logical questions. Hm..... I am not sure what emotional need the IRS is willing to allow on the 1040 as a writeoff to not paying taxes. That's just a piece of reality. <p>Sounds more like the friend is meeting a need vs the OM. <p>JMHO,
L.

Rev,
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> All I meant was, if the life she has with OM falls apart,(looks like it will) she will have to go somewhere. Her choices are 1. a new and diffrent life.(Scary) 2. The old you.(I don't think so) 3. The new you. (familiar, but better) What would would you do? And the more familiar and better it is, the better it is for you. <hr></blockquote><p>Personally, I'd go with familiar, but better. But my W is so stubborn and adamant about D at this point I honestly think if A dies, she would just stay at friend's house and be a live-in nanny. (But that is my opinion.)<p>Redhat,
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Every one in love will do the same thing, no exceptions. But A will burn out when reality hits. You have to make sure that you keep your focus. <hr></blockquote><p>Six weeks so far, and no reality in sight. Focusing on my life at this point, and have come to accept the fact, I may end up without her.<p>Orchid,
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Oh yea, that's right in the fog we taste like chicken?!?!?!? LOL!! <hr></blockquote><p>Mmmmmm, Chicken........ [Homer Simpson]<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Your W likes being a maid and baby sitter?!?!?!? How fulfilling?
<hr></blockquote><p>Apparently she must like doing it, she cooked and cleaned around here, but she would let things slide for a week and then only after I said something would she do it. So, what she is doing now must be so much better, because now she does it on a full time basis.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I'm sorry but if a man met my need but I had to be someone elses' maid and baby sitter to get that done, I'd run out soo fast, I'd be out in a blink! <hr></blockquote><p>You and me both, I never made her do anything around here, I would ask her to do things, but if she didn't do them, no big deal, I would do them myself.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I am not sure what emotional need the IRS is willing to allow on the 1040 as a writeoff to not paying taxes. <hr></blockquote><p>We have to ask Dr. Harley, I don't think there is an EN writeoff on the tax forms. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Sounds more like the friend is meeting a need vs the OM. <hr></blockquote><p>Could be, I never thought of it like that.<p>No new news I'm afraid... <p>In my opinion, I think W will end M even if she's not happy with OM, based on :
1) She feels guilty, because OM moved here from NY to be with her, if she/they break up, he will have nowhere to go, and she feels bad for that. 2) I think she is just looking for an excuse to leave me, because she thinks I can't change, even though I have, and other people around me have noticed.<p>I could be wrong, and we all know I'm no expert at this, but it's how I feel, and what I think.
Imput on this? Am I thinking correctly?, or do I just see the downside to this?

T, and all,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>In my opinion, I think W will end M even if she's not happy with OM, based on :
1) She feels guilty, because OM moved here from NY to be with her, if she/they break up, he will have nowhere to go, and she feels bad for that.<hr></blockquote>Nobody can live forever on guilt alone. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>2) I think she is just looking for an excuse to leave me, because she thinks I can't change, even though I have, and other people around me have noticed.<hr></blockquote>This is possible, but in time she will begin to see that the changes are permanent. My C told my W once that no one can change over night. I'm still trying to correct the damage that those words comming from my C's mouth caused. Only time and continued change and growth can fix this.<p>I got to thinking last night, that mabey I needed to defend myself a tiny bit on the whole "eat their loved ones" thing. Check out this link:MASLOW'S HIERARCHY OF NEEDS Would you believe I was a psychology major for a year? What I meant was that the need for food and shelter will soon out weigh the need for love in your W's A.<p>Once again I manged to get my point accross in a bit of a backwards manner. I'm glad you all understood.<p>Thanks
Rev

Rev,
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> What I meant was that the need for food and shelter will soon out weigh the need for love in your W's A.
<hr></blockquote><p>Right now W and OM are living "on the house" W cooks, cleans and babysits for "room and board", Her friend is willingly giving the A "room to survive", Only if, and when W and OM get their "own place" can the affair die. I think while they are living "carefree" the A will continue.