Thanks Redhat
Nothing new to report. Spent the day with my sister. Talking and walking. she thinks he just got into this whole thing too fast and it got out of control. that he made a big mistake but it will all work out. she said she would love to go down and visit them but he probably wouldn't survive her visit.
Forgiver

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Forgiver:
<strong>Thanks Redhat
Nothing new to report. Spent the day with my sister. Talking and walking. she thinks he just got into this whole thing too fast and it got out of control. that he made a big mistake but it will all work out. she said she would love to go down and visit them but he probably wouldn't survive her visit.
Forgiver</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey, you have a wise sister. She should not go there though, let H's family knock some senses on him. It is good to see that you have a lot of supports, it ease you up a bit. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . I will quote from Chris Thurman's Self-Help or Self-Destruction ...
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P108. There is a very old joke that says there are three rings in marriage:the engagement ring, the wedding ring, and the suffering. There is an element of truth to that statement. Marriage is going to involve suffering because, like a streneous workout at the gym, it pushes you to become better (more mature and loving) than you are. Specially, marriage involves learning to lay down your life for the well-being of another person, just as Christ did for us. This doesn't mean being a victim. It does mean learning to love even when it hurts to do so.
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WOW!!!!!
Just got off the phone with my H!! Over an hour phone call!!!!!! Last 2 calls only about 5 minutes. We talked as friends about school and about how great I'm doing and he's doing. We talked about his new pet lamb he's raising. Very cute!!<p> He said that no matter what he decides to do it is going to be a mess either back home or down there. He asked if my friends and co-workers knew about us. i told him no. (Keeping coming home a safe place). He said if he came back we can't pretend like nothing happened. I told him i didn't want to. I told him we could use what we have learned to make us stronger and better. This happens in one out of two marriages and people get through it. You use what you have learned. And he said " To make it better". I said "Yes! That's all hon! It will just make us better. I won't drag up the past I just want to work on our future together because i love you. It's like a dish that gets broken. You glue it with crazy glue and it is stronger than before. THer are some cracks but the plate is stronger. That's us. I'm willing to work on this with you. i know you still need time. I'm just glad you called" He still is on the fence but the end of the phone call had him peeking back onto my side of the fence I think.
I sent him an enticing e-mail that sparked his interest. Sexual content. he called to ask if I met someone. I played Venusian. Didn't answer him directly. He said if i did he would understand that he was in no position to judge. If I did he was happy for me. It sounded like he would feel better if i did, then we would be even or it would be easier for him to continue. I let him off the hook and explained that i didn't meet anyone. i just learned some new things about myself and am learning to express my sexual desires better. He was very interested. One thing led to another and phone sex insued. My first -so I told him I needed more practice. He was very happy. And looked forward to more practice. I think I deposited some major LB$. Knowing SF is his #1 need. i hope so.
It was the best phone call so far over an hour.
He said he would try to call me and e-mail me more. If we have more calls lke that I will be OW. LOL. She was definately not home to do and say what he did.
My MIL told him I was going down there this summer. ( Ihave not told him or her if I am. I was thinking about it. But you told me not to until he was willing to commit to M). My SIL told me what my MIL said (my MIL did not tell me she told him) . My SIL said his response was "REALLY!!???" He was not for or against it. My SIL thought it was a good sign that he didn't say "NO way". We shall see.
Now I can go to bed happy.
Forgiver

Forgiver,<p>Sleep tight and have some dream too [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . It is very good sign, it might that H start getting your cards ... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . You are doing great, he is second guessing his decision.

Hi Redhat,
I asked my h if he got my Valentine's Day flowers and packages. He said yes. Thank you, they were all very nice. I asked if he was getting my cards. He said yes. I asked if that was ok if i sent them and he said "Maybe it would be better if you didn't." I still have 15 here to mail. I mail a few each week. Should I not send them or just do it anyway?
Forgiver

If he sad no, then you probably should not.<p>One comment about his thoughts on you being involved with someone else....<p>He would likely be comforted by the idea since then, he would not be the only one that sinned and betrayed. Many people are like this. They take comfort from the fact that other people have done as bad as they have. It helps them to feel less guilty for what they have done because they then know that you would be a hypocrite to complain about behavior that you have done as well.<p>Don't fall into that trap. Don't even lead him on in that manner. Don't let him transfer any of his guilt to you, just because he may even think you are looking around.

Hi all
I have been listening to HNHN on my way to work over and over. In chp 13 Surviving an affair Harley talks about being firm and not tolerating an A continuing that total separation has to be agreed upon. I have not even gotten to suggest that to my h because he is so deep in the fog and the 3 phonecalls we have had i was not LBing. Wouldn't "educating my h" about total separation and telling him I will not tolerate it continuing be lbing? so far i have maintained myself as a safe place to come back to but i reaklly think this distance thing is going to lessen my chance of recovery. He has at least until next April to stay there with her.
One minute I have hope the next it's lost. I have to go pick up the paxil one of these days!
forgiver

I have hit an all time low and feel as if I can no longer go on another minute. i canno longer breathe through my crying. I had the realization that i am not fulfilling a single need og my h right now Ow is filling all. I have no chance and this will go on forever. hi scousin tiold him if he files for divorce and i contest he has a nightmare ahead of him . I feel now he will never file and go on like this forever. I can not file as long as i still love him. WHY DO I LOVE HIM SO MUCH? As i try to0 type this out i i am shattered i can't stop crying. I have therapy at 800 but i don't think i can cry like this and drive.
I have been hearing/reading that ws will always be in love with ow that clock is set back to 0 with any reminders. How can BS go on l;iving that thier ws will never love them the way they did before and they wil always love ow more. How can we live knowing our ws pines for someonelse forever? My H will see OW everyday for the next 2 years they live and go to school together. he fell for her 2 weeks after he met her because she is just like me. now she has replaced me they moved in 3 months after meeting. Now he is with her always i have no chance i can't do this anymor

Forgiver,
{{{{((((HUG))))}}} This is the time to pick up paxil !!!. You need it. Call someone close, talk to SIL and ask her be with you for the night. Let me point out some of the key words on your post ...
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I had the realization that i am not fulfilling a single need og my h right now Ow is filling all.<hr></blockquote>
Yes, you might not fillin your H's EN but you don't know if OW is filling it all !!!!. Some WS posts suggest that they are not enjoying it either after D-day. My WW told me that life isn't that great w/ A either, I do beleive her.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I have no chance and this will go on forever.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You don't know yet, you have to give it some time. You stop this when you are ready and when your love bank is close to bankrupt.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I have been hearing/reading that ws will always be in love with ow that clock is set back to 0 with any reminders.<hr></blockquote>
No, those who are in withdrawal, the clock of withdrawal is set to zero w/ any contact.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>he fell for her 2 weeks after he met her because she is just like me. now she has replaced me they moved in 3 months after meeting. Now he is with her always i have no chance i can't do this anymor</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hang in there, there is more to this, the more H with OW ... the more chances of LB'ed from both end. Sit tight until the hallo effects or honeymoon priod dried up then revisit again the damage. if your H comparing you with OW ... the more likely H will LB.<p>You will have no chance if you give up now. I differs w/ Longing on the card. Unless they told you to stop and is definite LB, keep at it and send them. H might says it since OW will see it.

Thanks Redhat and Longing<p> i'm doing better tonight.

My H said that before he left for school he did not feel good about himself. He said he was out of shape, smoking and had just been laid off from a job where he was taken advantage of. When he went to school he lost weight, quit smoking, started running again and felt really good about himself. He was voted the most desirable lab partner and is very popular.<p> My counseler said that my H may associate coming back to me as coming back to the old him. He did not feel good about himself when he left and thus he left that other person behind with me. He has negative feelings about himself he left here. I asked H if being with me made him feel bad about himself, if I was why he felt bad. H said it had nothing to do with me it was all him.
Why would he want to come back to a place he felt bad about himself in? I am going to ask him if he does not want to come back here, we could sell the house and go wherever he wanted. <p> I've got the strength to fight another day. We'll see what tomorrow brings.<p> My MIL is losing it. She wants to call him and tell him if he does not start thinking about moving out and if he does not move out by his April break- she will go down there to embarrass him and break his legs. She is going crazy she wants to call him and e-mail him and rip his head off. I suggested she didn't. I told her to try to tell him how she feels with out resorting to threats and ultimatums. But that is how she is. My FIL said "THe gloves are coming off! We've had enough of this. We can't watch him do this to you or us any longer."<p> Should I beg them to back off or let them do their stuff? The last time they showed up (d-day). My H flipped out and said "You just made my decision very easy when you came here! Thanks for making my choice for me. I choose OW!"<p> What should I do?<p>PS I'm sorry I don't post on other sites and try to offer help to others like you do. I don't Feel strong enough or seasoned enough to be of any help to anyone yet.<p>Forgiver

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Forgiver:
<strong>
My counseler said that my H may associate coming back to me as coming back to the old him. He did not feel good about himself when he left and thus he left that other person behind with me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry I don't buy those psyco-babble. Do you make H fat ? do you make H smoke ?. One thing that your conselor is right, H is snatch by his selfishness (not himself)... to come back H has to give up his selfishness. Therefore you let the A dies down and make your self a better choice.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I've got the strength to fight another day. We'll see what tomorrow brings.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I know you are a tough cookie [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . Orchid already warn you about greiving & anger, it will shows up, just a matter of time.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Should I beg them to back off or let them do their stuff? The last time they showed up (d-day). My H flipped out and said "You just made my decision very easy when you came here! Thanks for making my choice for me. I choose OW!"<p> What should I do?</strong><hr></blockquote>
It is an internal family business, stay out of it. You have tell them about your plan A and be honest with your feeling ... other than that you should stay clear. You could be viewed as manipulative by H even if you try to hold them !!!. My WW thought of that even I stayed clear, she told me that I was trying to be hyprocite and try to look good, etc ... I don't call them no more, just special occations only and let them call me instead.<p><strong> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>PS I'm sorry I don't post on other sites and try to offer help to others like you do. I don't Feel strong enough or seasoned enough to be of any help to anyone yet.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You have enough on your plate, take care of yourself. Some posts I can't finish reading it, it hurts and too close to home, I let other respond to it. I took almost a week off earlier this year b/c it is impacting me a lot on my views of my WW. Don't discounted yourself, just simple reply means a lot to hurting heart. Also this thread helps other lurkers in similiar situations like yours. Your strengths and determinations are hopes for discourage BS.

Thanks Red
You are such a temendous help.<p> My MIL wants to know if she should yell and scream. If they should go down there. she is asking me what to do. she says "I don't want to do the wrong thing and ruin your chances." She said "what if he is on his way back to you and I yell and scream and send him back to her." Should she stay quiet or speak her mind? <p> She wants to know if she should call him and tell him to move out or she will go and embarrass him. She can not call him direct (no one had his #). she calls the school and tells them to tell him to call his mother. She is asking me to ask MB if it will hurt our situation if she threatens him. should she just sit tight or what? She is ready to explode. So is my FIL. Please deposit your 2 cents. Thanks.
Forgiver

Forgiver,<p>Don't you hate what A does to everyone's on its path ?. Your MIL has the same exact question as my FIL. Assure her that anything happens they are still your MIL always, H will do what H wants to do. She knows H all her life so she should trust her judgement and you will always support her. This is what WS/A does to the one who love them, put doubts. If H is going back is b/c H wants it ... he is an adult and don't let H make excuses to put blame on them.<p>IMO. They could LB'ed all they want ... This is the reason why A has to be in the open. So that you have third party(ies) that bear your witness & pop the fantasy buble. One of H's A consequences is straining his relations, let it takes its natural path.<p>I am glad that you are stronger now, please get some ADD ready and you could decide later if want to take it. Remember that ADD takes time to kicks in depending on what you take. Get your support system ready, i.e don't stay alone when they are going there. Post a prayer request on this forum too.

Thanks Redhat,
One more thing my MIL wants to call OW's mother and give her a piece of her mind. Ow's mother was an OW herself. She left her first H for her second which started as an A. She is a good role model for her daughter to show that their A lasted into a second marriage. Her stepfather was also married while he had an A with OW's mother. The apple does not fall far from the tree. The OW's mother and stepfathere were both WS's. Now she has my WS for her very own. I wish her BF would have tried to get her back. i don't know what is happening on her end but I think he gave up.
I was reading through my H and OW e-mail to each other during the christmas holidays. Ow was asking my H if he would tell me Now (during christmas) or wait until their April break. She said it would be very difficult for her to share him with me until he broke up with me in April. She hoped he would not tell me he was leaving me because of her, because she would feel bad if he said that to me. What the F*@!?
Forgiver

Forgiver,<p>I actually like the idea of your MIL calling OW's M, not for your M but to make your MIL feels better and feels that she is doing something in helping you. Poor MIL. As we know it, it won't do any good, don't tell her that [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . Thanks her for it.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>She hoped he would not tell me he was leaving me because of her, because she would feel bad if he said that to me. What the F*@!?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Manipulative [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] . In Venusian term, to make your H to say that you are a bad wife and he is leaving you b/c of it. I do not think that guilt has anything to do with it. Heh heh ... your H didn't do it.

Forgiver, I admire u very much. I think given your situation u r handling this much better than i am (and my ws still comes home sometimes). You must be a very strong person, and I pray for each one of us each day (to all the gods, just in case).

Thank you so much Seahorse!
I love your name by the way! Tried to get it as my liscence plate for my car but it was already taken.<p> New news..... Still have not heard from my H since our last hour long PC. But One of his cousins died suddenly on Thursday. I sent him an e-mail to ask him to please call his parents. His parents also sent him an e-mail. He has not responded. Thursday was his birthday and I sent him several e-mail birthday cards from Blue Moutin. I checked off the box to let me know when he read them. He still has not.
His parents are FREAKING OUT!!! They are so angry because my H has not given anyone his phone number. He only calls us or corresponds by e-mail. Well they are pi**ed! They keep screaming that what if it was one of them or me that died and no one could get in touch with him. He would miss the funeral. They are so angry going on and on how dare he choose this little sl*t, who** etc. over his family. What kind of hold does she have over him. If my MIL had the money she would fly down there today and break both their legs.
I can totally understand how she feels. She said she feels bad because when she gets so angry and beside herself she has to call me to calm her down because I have a different way of looking at this. She said she feels bad coming to me for help because I already have such a burden going through this waiting game. I told don't worry, it helps me to help her and it only makes us closer. We need to count on each other. <p> I told her to try to call one of his best friends (our best man at our wedding) He has my H's phone number. I have not asked him for it b/c I want my H to come to me and I know if I call it will be a LB. I told her it was ok to tell him how she feel s about being cut off. He has not called to offer his condolences to his aunt and uncle. today was the funeral. If it were one of us who died he would have missed out on at least paying respects. His old roommate went home for one week when his close neighbor passed away. Not even a family member and he took a week off. i asked her not to bring me into it. Just to let him know how hurt you are about him shutting everyone out of his fantasy.

I also reminded her that it has only been two months since d-day. His two e-mails and three phone calls to me have all been positive with no mention of divorce or him choosing. Only that he does love me he is just confused. As long as he is confused I still have hope. She has put demands and ultimatums on him that he has not given in to. Also that 9 out of 10 A end. We have to let the fairy dust wear off, let reality smack him in the face and let him see her for who she really is and let him see himself so the A DIES naturally. (May it rot in he**). Also it consoles me to know that only around 5% of A last onto marriage. Since her own M and stepF were together as a result of an A. I'd say lightening would strike twice for my H and OW to have success. Although that does happen. I keep my chin up. I know they will be miserable. I would haunt him forever because I was the best thing that ever happened to him. He'll live a sad life without me. <p> I rather enjoy introducing myself to myself these days. i've really gottten into kickboxing and working out. I've slimmed down to 130 and i'm 5'9". My family and co-workers have really noticed. I had to give my mom back all the Christmas clothes she bought me-too big! I am taking a cooking class, looking into a painting class and applying to school to be a vet-tech. This summer I plan to take windsurfing and sailing lessons. My H would never teach me or let me sail our boat. Control???<p> When I look at the big picture. Deep down I still think he will come back. I am ready to do the work that I have learned here. But if he does not. I am a better person for it. I deserve bettter love and respect. I now know how to keep the fire and love in my relationship. I hope to share that with him someday. But it is his loss if he misses his opportunity. I know I am quite a catch! Have a goodnight all! I am praying for all of us. Keep your chin up and remember the statistics and TIME is on our side. <p> I'm doing better aren't I redhat? The Paxil is still tucked away in my cabinet. Maybe another day. Not today! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
Forgiver

Forgiver, thank you for your post, you're the best!! You are truly a wonderful person. Where did you find the online sex course? I've been looking but can't find it, and its an area I need to improve - albeit by myself!! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>What sort of dogs do you have. I've got a boxer and he's the best! such good support and great to hug when you're crying your eyes out.<p>I'm going scuba diving in 3 weeks at Cairns - since H is going to Bangkok to visit that b***ch that apparently loves him - yeah right, wants a visa more like it!<p>I'll keep watching your posts - were all in this together its only geography that separates us!

Forgiver,<p>Would you mind to be a poster girl for plan A ? ... LOL, I will put my vote for you [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . You are doing great and watch out for those downward slope [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>How about asking Seahorse to go to St. Kitts instead and be your gumshoes ? ... St. Kitts. has nice beaches and coral sea for scuba. Wishfull thinking [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>Yes, we will be a better choice at the end. My WW never realized that there are many envy eyes watching us even before this whole mess. With MB we know how to be irresistable and keep it that way [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .

Thank you so much Seahorse and Redhat!!
{{{HUGS}}} to you both!<p> Seahorse. I found a class on increasing your sexual desire at a website called ivillage.com. I'll try to get a specific download. It is a six week course for women on a website that discusses womens issues. they have great articles.
I have three dogs. Two Jack russell terriers and a Newfoundland mix. He is my dark angel. Over 100 lbs. they are awesome. Our children so to speak. Since we put offf children for school. I do obedience training with them and am looking into agility training too.. no agility classes near me. I was told to start my own. Yet another project i may delve into. i also have a horse and a two birds. Animals are both my h and my passion. Hence vet school.<p>
Redhat-
thanks for your support. You are the first poster child for plan A. you're my mentor and support. I just follow your lead and learn from the master. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p> I had another thought that kept me going through the day today.<p> If I were in my H's shoes and had my brains sucked out and scrambled by aliens. I would hope that my H would do exactly what I am doing and hang in there for the long haul with the hope, belief, knowledge etc. that reality would hit and I would need safe harbor. I would hope he would be strong for me and wait it out. That got me through today and I hope the days to come.<p> Now for some , what I think is good news. Got e-mail #3 from my H today. Here it goes:<p>Hi Hon,
Thanks for the birthday wishes.... really couldn't enjoy it because I had a test the next day. Got a B+ on it, i guess I'm happy with that.
Anyway, i still have to send you some pictures. I still think of you all the time and i'm a bit scared to come home and see you. Its just all the stuff I've done!! I really do want to come home and really talk things out over the next break. i miss you and the dogs lots.
Love,
H<p> In one moment I am elated and the next terrified.<p> I know OW told H if he did not end it with me in December he must come home and end it in April. She could not take having to wait until April.
When he comes home withdrawl will start. He will miss her. He will only be home for a week and then he will be back in class with her. the A will ignite all over again? I know I have to expect the backslide and prepare.<p> I have doubts I can win him over in a week knowing he will be returning to her. What if I don't impress him enough? I will not kiss his a** to win him back. I will just try to plan A all the way. But he is still uneducated in the ways of the MB masters. And to educate him will be a LB. It is so frustrating having a week time span and the expectation of a backslide. <p>Hang in there. Hang in there. Hang in there.
Off to kickboxing!
Forgiver