You Guys are awesome!<p> Thanks so much! Today was a great day back at work. Everyone was so happy to see me. Hugs and everything. I told them we had a wonderful week adn that he is staying home until September so we can recontect. The year apart was too hard. I will not tell them the whole story but I will not lie either. Better to tell the truth then get caught up in lies.<p> SongBird- Thank you for your wisdom, support and input. I was raised a Catholic and religon has been very important in my life. But not in my H's life. He would go to church with me but is not spiritual. My parents are VERY religous. They both say prayers and novenas for me everyday. They go to church nearly everyday and visit a shrine regularly. I pray everynight. The same prayers I've said since childhood. I've added more prayers since I've gottten older and even pray in several languages. I feel very close to St. Theresa and St. Francis and say Novenas to them. I will look into the book you suggested but I feel my H would not be receptive. I have had SAA on my dresser in my closet since he has been home. I can tell he looked at it once. But I will not push any education on him. It is there for him if he wants.<p> I spoke to my SIL today. She said she spent most of the day with my H shopping. She ran into a friend of hers whose H is having an A. Wow! What a coincidence! So right in the middle of the mall my H got some insight into the BS world. This woman told my SIL that she is hanging in there and living for herself. She said he hopes he wakes up and realizes what he has before she runs out of hope and love and leaves him. She said he may be too late and loses the best thing that will ever happen to him. And he will realize too late. my SIL seems to think it struck a chord with my H although they did not talk about it.<p> My H told my SIL that "I know her. She is being so nice right now but she is going to blow up and throw this in my face. I am waiting for her to explode." He thinks I have an alterior motive. He thinks I am just waiting for the right moment to slam him. I told her I have never done that in the past why would I do it now? I am not that way. My SIL says this situation is different. He is waiting and expecting me to rip his head off. He thinks I am pretending and holding everything in to wait until he is vulnerable and then whack him with it.<p> I tried to explain to her that I am not holding anything in. I am just not talking about it until he is willing and I understand it is too soon. I want to talk about this respectfully and share my feelings but I am not a yeller. I never have been. Defensive? yes I USED to be! but I told her and my H that I have been trying very hard to change that about myself. I am trying to be loving and respectful and understanding because I think the results will be better in the end. I do not think that yelling and arguing and trying to hurt him will make anyone feel better in the end. I do not know why I am so calm about this. I do not know who I am anymore. But neither does he. He is expecting something but he is not getting it. I don't know what to expect. I'm not sure what to do.<p> Maybe he wants someone to yell and scream. I am not that kind of person. I work with very young children, many of whom have special needs. So I have learned to communicate and sometimes manipulate with patience and kindness. I do not treat him like a child but I will not explode the way he is expecting. The OW explodes. Perhaps that is the change and excitement he is seeking/needs. <p> he told his sister that he told the OW 1 week before he left that he was coming home to work on his M. She flipped out and did not take it well. I do not pay attention to him saying that because who knows what the truth is. SHe did not know he had been plannng to do this and apparently she didn't say they should have some time apart and he should move out as he told his siter yesterday. Anyone have a lie detector?<p> He said he has not called her or e-mailed her for a few days and he asked her not to call or e-mail him. I do not knowif she has e-mailed him. I know his passwords(he didn't give them to me, I have my ways) Should I check his e-mail? How do I check a hotmail account and not have him notice? Is there a "keep as new icon" like in AOL? I am afraid to snoop and have him catch me. I would not use it against him. I just want to see her side to get a better perspective of what I am dealing with.<p> My SIL said there was a lot of positive in their conversation but we are a long way away. She said to hang in ther and give it time but that I have to talk to him and explain why I am acting the way i am. But I can't explain that to him because it would be bringing up the A and R. I have to wait for him. Can I say it in therapy with him there? I told him last week I understand it is hard for him, it's hard for me too. I know no matter what I do for weeks to come I will not be able to do anything right by him to make him feel comfortable. He is so uncomfortable around me because he does not trust me he thinks I am waiting to pounce-but I am not. So it is very awkward to be together he is waiting and I am waiting, but from what I understand I have to wait until he is ready to take the risk to talk. Will he take the risk if he thinks I am being deceitful? <p> I am better today than I was yesterday. The thing that haunts me is that he is going back in September and it will undo everything. I know! I know! One day at a time. Sometimes it is one second at a time.<p> It was good to be alone today. Some time apart, a relief. But was that bad for him to not be with me? I let him do what he wants. I told him he can come home or stay it is completely up to him, whatever he wants to do.<p> I am killing him with kindness. I think this is going to be a very slow death. Until tomorrow!
Forgiver

Hi Forgiver, Personally I think your holding it all together well. Good for you. Its so hard when they're home, and hard when they're not. <p>My H says same things about waiting for me to change back. I don't think they really trust us right now, because they think we're manipulating them. All we can do is prove ourselves-which makes me mad sometimes, because its not us who should have to prove anything!!<p>Anyway our turn will come. <p>BTW, have you tried Bellydance? I had my first class tonight and it was EXCELLENT!

You are doing so well ! !
You seem to have stepped back and thought about it and realized he needed time. <p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> He is so uncomfortable around me because he does not trust me he thinks I am waiting to pounce-but I am not. So it is very awkward to be together he is waiting and I am waiting, but from what I understand I have to wait until he is ready to take the risk to talk. <hr></blockquote><p>It sounds like you hit him pretty heavy the first few days. Then you thought about it and backed off. Not saying you pounced, but did you want some answers pretty badly? And talked like you did? <p>What would happen if you said this:
" I would like to have a five minute conversation with you about what is going to happen with us, just to clear the air so you will know what I am thinking and working on , is that OK ? This will be different than the first few days, don't get scared, OK? " <p>I bet he will give you that much - <p>Then cover these points<p>1. You Love him. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
2. You want to stay married to him.
3. You have been working on changing and improving yourself so he will want to stay with you.
4. That's why you seem different, because you are gaining skills to help you be a better wife.
5. You will give him room while he is here. - You want to spend time with him but not pressure him. You won't pressure him to talk now.
6 You will need to talk about your marriage sometime before he returns - he should keep that in mind.
7. When you do talk there will be no "ultimatums". He shouldn't worry about that.
(note that you WILL have to talk about under what CONDITIONS you will stay married to him, and they may sound like ultimatums to him but they won't be. And he needs to be reassured now so he can relax and re-connect with you.)
8. Relax and enjoy your time with me, I'm not going to pressure you. Sorry if you are worried about it. Just wanted to re-assure you about it. Lets just enjoy our time together and see what happens. <p>Being a guy, I think conversation along those lines would help me.
Seahorse, have you had this talk yet? Might help your husband too. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> The thing that haunts me is that he is going back in September and it will undo everything. I know! I know! One day at a time. Sometimes it is one second at a time. <hr></blockquote><p>I would suggest bringing these things up 5 weeks before he goes back. That should give you both time to think and talk every few days and come to some decisions before he leaves. Perhaps you could give him a "heads up" a week before the talk, tell him you want to talk "next week" but you won't make demands and will he try to prepare and be ready. <p>These are all just suggestions, I suspect you have already thought about most of this and come to similar conclusions. Hope it helps. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I am better today than I was yesterday. <hr></blockquote><p>That's GREAT. We are all pulling for you and Seahorse. ( your threads are quite connected)
When you have "down" days remember we are here, praying for you and we want you to succeed ! ! ! !<p>Redhat - update? Anything new? ( sorry Forgiver, hope you don't mind me asking )<p>[ May 07, 2002: Message edited by: still seeking ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Forgiver:
<strong>I spoke to my SIL today. She said she spent most of the day with my H shopping. She ran into a friend of hers whose H is having an A. Wow! What a coincidence! So right in the middle of the mall my H got some insight into the BS world. This woman told my SIL that she is hanging in there and living for herself. She said he hopes he wakes up and realizes what he has before she runs out of hope and love and leaves him. She said he may be too late and loses the best thing that will ever happen to him. And he will realize too late. my SIL seems to think it struck a chord with my H although they did not talk about it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Never think that it was a coincident, HE showed HIS present if we are willing to open our eyes. What are the chances/probablities of your H going out shopping with SIL and meet a freind that in the middle of betrayal and she let her heart out !. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Do you see him afterward and any sign of change ?. Sit back, keep doing your plan A, let HIM work from within and crumbled your H's wall. Again, be ready to catch H !.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong> My H told my SIL that "I know her. she is being so nice right now but she is going to blow up and throw this in my face. I am waiting for her to explode." He thinks I have an alterior motive. ....... I don't know what to expect. I'm not sure what to do.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Expect nothing from H, this is plan A. Some WS refers our plan A as in the fog, just look at tow. Do nothing about it unless you are asked. Right now H is using your SIL as messager, you are doing good, play his game, H is in control<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong> Maybe he wants someone to yell and scream. I am not that kind of person. I work with very young children, many of whom have special needs. So I have learned to communicate and sometimes manipulate with patience and kindness. I do not treat him like a child but I will not explode the way he is expecting. The OW explodes. Perhaps that is the change and excitement he is seeking/needs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Do nothing ... you don't have to be who you are not. He has to come to his sense, you have done enough. You don't want to loose your H and loose yourself. Plan A makes you better person and an irristable mate !, don't let anyone tell you or make you beleive otherwise, not even H.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>he told his sister that he told the OW 1 week before he left that he was coming home to work on his M. She flipped out and did not take it well. I do not pay attention to him saying that because who knows what the truth is. SHe did not know he had been plannng to do this and apparently she didn't say they should have some time apart and he should move out as he told his siter yesterday. Anyone have a lie detector?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Good attitude !. Spend your energy somewhere else.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong> He said he has not called her or e-mailed her for a few days and he asked her not to call or e-mail him. I do not knowif she has e-mailed him. I know his passwords(he didn't give them to me, I have my ways) Should I check his e-mail? How do I check a hotmail account and not have him notice? Is there a "keep as new icon" like in AOL? I am afraid to snoop and have him catch me. I would not use it against him. I just want to see her side to get a better perspective of what I am dealing with.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Snoop !. Don't be afraid ... Did he delete it after he read it ?. You could also change his option on Alerts to alert mobile devices if there is a new message arrived.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>...I have to wait for him. Can I say it in therapy with him there? ... Will he take the risk if he thinks I am being deceitful?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Bring it up during the counseling ... MC will work it out and try to make both of you communicate. No one will "talk" if the environment is not right.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong> I am better today than I was yesterday. The thing that haunts me is that he is going back in September and it will undo everything. I know! I know! One day at a time. Sometimes it is one second at a time.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is the hardest part. But by being patience, you are doing something !.<p>-RH-

Hello All!<p>
AAARRRGGGHHH!!!! I feel like Charlie Brown and Lucy has just pulled the football away and I am lying on my back looking up at the sky!!!<p> When I talked to my H last night, very short polite information only conversation, he said he would be home when I got home. We have counseling tonight at 8:15.<p> Guess what? You got it!! I got home he wasn't here. I called his mom to ask if he was coming. She said I'll let you talk to him. He said he is not coming home he wants to stay there a little while longer. He is going out with his friends tonight. I told him that was fine, that's OK. Whatever you want to do. I'll talk to you later. He said goodbye and we hung up.<p>
So now I go alone but that is ok because I have a lot to say to my C. <p> By him staying up there he is avoiding the issue correct? So this makes it drag out more. Does it make it easier for him to come back to me to talk or by staying away does he confirm even more that he does not want to try? <p> Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I am sorry I can not thank you individually because I just read what you said and didn't take notes yet. I just came to post a reply. I love the list of suggestions of what to say thank you! i will print them out. That is exactly what I need just like my post is entitled "Pleas! Tell me what to say!" <p> I'll keep it short for now but I will be back after therapy. Thanks for your shoulders, I am really leaning hard on you guys. I need you.
Forgiver

Forgiver,<p>But Charlie always buys thats from Lucy, right ?. I missed the peanut gang ... anyway back from the comic world, to our WS's fog ...
Next time when he does this again, don't tell him it is ok !. Learn to express your feeling ... "I prefers you to come since we have this set up however if you do not come I will go by myself." No LB'ed but you need to tell him your feeling, no judgement no anger ... start with I.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>By him staying up there he is avoiding the issue correct? So this makes it drag out more. Does it make it easier for him to come back to me to talk or by staying away does he confirm even more that he does not want to try?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Stop analyzing WS in the fog, there is no logic apply here. What H did is taking some withdrawal from LB$ !, and if he keeps doing this it will bring resenment from you, sooner or later. AND IT WILL DRAG RECOVERY LONGER.<p>What does your MC tell you ?.

Hi Forgiver,<p>You are showing enormous strength of character. I know I would not be able to hold on to myself like you are. I am so sorry for what you are going through.<p>My H actually told OW that he was hoping that I would end marriage so that he did not have to do it. I was unaware of his relationship with her at the time but knew that there was something very wrong with us and was a mess. I actually tried to leave him twice and both times he convinced me to stay even though she was pressuring him to leave me. So wanting you to hate him is his way of not having to face up to facing his issues in my opinion. Stay strong. Let him be the one to have to decide. Then he cannot blame you for end of marriage if it happens.<p>It is a real shame he will not be at counsel session. The two of you really do need to discuss things soon. I think maybe your H is really struggling with his guilt and the fact that you could still love him after what he is done. He is probably hurting every time he is with you knowing what he has done to you. I know my H hates it if I get down about things (thankfully less often now) as it is a reflection to him of the Effect his actions have had.<p>One suggestion, perhaps you could invite him to go out to dinner or on a some sort of a date. Just to meet with no pressure in a neutral environment. Hopefully you will enjoy each other's company and is less pressure than him being with you 24 on 7. Stay away from R or A issues unless he brings them up on outing.<p>I agree that you do have to express how you feel when things come up. You need to do it in a no lovebustin way. Just state what you feel. Do not expect him to validate your feeling, but he needs to hear what you feel.<p>Anyway I am here in Oz praying for you.
C&S

Thanks Redhat and Confused & Scared,<p> Thank you. You enlightened me to a very good point. I do not share with my H how I feel when he does dumb things because i thought it would be a LB. I try to say it's ok whatever you want to do. To let him know i am not pissed off. It is a routine answer. I will try to share m y feelings without LBing. But I feel it will make him defensive.<p> My MC asked how I felt about my H treatment of me since he has been home. I said I understand he is going through very difficult emotions and I can not talk to him about it or ask him to share with me because he is so uncomfortable. I understand I have to be patient and wait, and wait,wait, wait. I told him I would not explode like he is expecting me to. I will share my feelings when he is ready to listen. I will try to do it an a calm respectful way. But i need for him to talk to me. My MC said that my H guilt must be so overwhelming and unbearable when he is around me. He said I am doing a good job of being strong and patient. He said I am giving my H enough room and rope to hang himself with guilt. He feels if I LB at all my H will say "See! Look I am right to leave you for her. You are __________!" Whatever lame excuse he would use. I will not make it easy for him to try to make this my fault. I will look back with no regrets and he will feel horrible for doing this. And if we do not work out, I don't think he will ever learn to communicate or face his problems because no one would be as patient as I have been with him. <p>
It has always been my H's Mode of operation to avoid conflict. When he left in Jan, he cut almost all communication with me. avoided the issue, problem. Now he is home and he went to his mothers. Again, typical H's MO to avoid the issue. <p> We will see what tomorrow brings. Perhaps I will post again later. I am home alone again and will lurk on other posts.
See ya!
Forgiver

One more thing,<p> You both hit on something. My H is hoping to make me do the work. He hopes that by withdrawing LB$ and making it difficult I will grow to hate him and leave him. Making it easier for him. Just like your H was trying to do C&S.
Redhat, I think my H wants me to resent him so I do the D work for him.<p> Throughout this whole situation My H has gotten to hear how I was through other people. He has told them how he is doing or what he is doing knowing it will get back to me. He tells his mom to call me to tell me something or he tells me to wish someone a Happy Birthday for him. (I don't) I realize now he has such an issue with facing difficult situations that he gets others to do his job for him. A good delegator huh? Wow! I just realized how much he has been doing that. What a very weak person he must be? I never thought of him that way but his coward colors are really coming through.<p> Like I said if he is a jerk to me and does not resolve this with me I think he hopes I will give in. But I won't!
Ta! Ta!
Forgiver

Watch out! Mood swing coming in!<p> Just snooped and read OW e-mails to my H. As well as H e-mails to and from friends. He tells about how he feels like a stranger to be back here like he's on another planet. How much it sucks. His friends write back that they are taking care of OW until he comes back to her. <p> She wrote to him how much she misses him. How he's her best friend. How she misses his "magical p****". How does she think it got so magical? 12 years of practice with me!!! She writes how she wants to spend the rest of her life with him. have his children. Travel and curl up by the fire at night. That's what WE were going to do bi***!! She writes about how hard this is for her and she is so sorryit is so hard for him. bUt she is not angry. Hurt but not angry. <p> When/if he comes home tomorrow I want to ask him to go and see a lawyer. If he wants to be with her then get his crap out of this house and go file papers. I will go see a lawyer this weekend and I will tell him so. I want the house. But I am afraid I will lose it and have to pay him alimoney. I want to tell him to pack his bags and go back to the island. Right now I have HAD IT!!!<p> Should i go to plan B? He will probably go live with his parents for the summer. And be in contact with her. <p> How can I spend the next 4 months with someone who does not want to be with me? He told his mom he loves me but he does not have the strong feelings for me he had before he left. He has those feelings for her.<p> Help me guys I think I'm losing it!!
Forgiver

Forgiver,<p>Snooping is hard ... I warned you before ... Don't do anything w/ this info. Why ? ... what make him think that his freinds won't be "freindlier" [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . 6 months is along time ... does she has multiple partner before ?. You have 6 months to go minus plan B when you can take it no more. Give it time ... read Torizo saga. Let me know what you think.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>... She writes about how hard this is for her and she is so sorryit is so hard for him. bUt she is not angry. Hurt but not angry.</strong><hr></blockquote>
She might have her mom trained her. You need to learn from her how to express yourself w/o LB'ed. REMEMBER YOU ARE COMPETING !!!.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Should i go to plan B? He will probably go live with his parents for the summer. And be in contact with her.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You have answer your own question. You might hand H to OW ... make it easier. Don't let her get to you.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>How can I spend the next 4 months with someone who does not want to be with me? He told his mom he loves me but he does not have the strong feelings for me he had before he left. He has those feelings for her.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Easy ... T R U E L O V E ... & a glimse of promised future. You still have hope that this man still could repent and work on M.<p>Do nothing for now, H just back from the island and has not see you ... the new you. Turn up you plan A ... get your self a nice dress, do your hair, do your nail ... call your girl freinds that don't know your situation, GO OUT AND HAVE FUN. Hey ... go and see spidy, my favorite hero !!!. Don't stay home and miserable !!!.<p>After all come down, write a plan A letter !!!, a love notes and states your love and let it compete w/ OW's !!!.

Ok Forgiver, I am sorry it is turning this way but we need to strengthen U!!!! <p>Keep a few key phrases in mind. If you are not going to let him know that you read that junk then every so often mention a phrase or two. It will help you see how much he is paying attention to the OWs words and you will then be aable to use that as a gauge on how to handle or plan A or B. <p>If he goes to live with his parents then so be it. His 'friends' in the island are OWs friends so that is why you are not welcome there. <p>Thinking of answering a few of them? Be careful. That would be very tempting for me. Ahhhem..... [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You go get your options and when you are calmer let him know that these 'games' are not appreciated. He does feel like a stranger because he is acting strange. (That's babbling back). It will make him think though. That is good. You want to stimulate his grey cells. He was not suppose to have contact and if that is breaking one of your requirements for him being in your home then he needs to go take his hiney elsewhere. <p>Remember to keep respect for U. <p>Can you call Steve or Jennifer?<p>Take Care,
L.

Hi Forgiver:
Let me tell you I am more into your thread than my own. I know I recommended plan B before but now since reading your last post--DON'T DO IT!!!!! I did the same thing you did and got a keyboard recorder (Redhat's idea) and reading the emails was very painful. My H also had stupid "friends" encouraging him but he will come to realize misery loves company. These are not friends. You have done such a wonderful job for SIX MONTHS!!! Don't throw it away now. Keep doing what you are doing.<p>This woman can't hold a candle to you. All she has is words and they are so weak. Let her wait it out and watch those words turn cold and angry and you will smile inside because she does not know what you know - How not to LB. (smile) You have so much on her. Knowledge is power baby. Use it. Let the lawyer wait. Hold on. And you know what whatever happens you will know you did your best. Hang in there girl. You have taught me so much. You really have. wu

Might help to read this again -
Wat's Guide<p>Hang on, YOU CAN DO THIS.

I'm going to give you a different viewpoint here. Feel free to discard if you wish.<p>Your so-called husband has just spent months having a close, personal, sexual relationship with another woman. He knows that you know about it.<p>Now he's come home for a few months and is being very careful and kind of tip-toeing around, because he knows what he's done and he knows that no woman worth her salt would dream of tolerating this sort of behavior. <p>However, all you have done is show him that there will be no consequences whatsoever for his behavior. You will welcome him back with open arms, you will make no attempt to discuss his extramarital affair, you will walk on eggshells if necessary so as not to upset him, and you will bend over backwards to make HIM feel comfortable.<p>What does he have to for you in return? Nothing.<p>Yes, this has temporarily thrown him off balance, but he'll soon recover and be happier than ever. He'll understand very clearly that there are no repercussions about his having sex with another woman. He'll understand that he is free to do whatever he likes while he's gone and he can come back to you whenever he feels like it.<p>That's exactly what he's done, and what he's still doing now. Are you sure that's what you want?<p>This is not a marriage, unless you don't mind having an open marriage. He is not being a husband to you -- he's treating you like his mom. He wants you to stay out of the way while he dates his dream girl, but still be there waiting up for him afterwards. <p>Be very, very careful of what he says. I would bet money he will tell you whatever you want to hear and then go straight back to her at the first opportunity, because now you've shown him he can have BOTH of you as long as he makes you happy by saying the right words.<p>This is a terrible situation. I hate to see this happen to you.<p>Psycho_B***h

(((Forgiver))))<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Be very, very careful of what he says. I would bet money he will tell you whatever you want to hear and then go straight back to her at the first opportunity, because now you've shown him he can have BOTH of you as long as he makes you happy by saying the right words.
<hr></blockquote><p>When is a scam not a scam? When the 'recipient' is aware of whats going on and can play the game too!<p>My husband knows I will not tolerate another woman in our marriage because I have told him so. He's not stupid (ok, he's not stupid all the time [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] ) but he heard what I said and even though I'm demonstrating I'm willing to change, I don't think I'm encouraging his behaviour at all. In fact, I don't know if he's in contact with Ow and frankly at the moment I don't care, because she can never hold a candle to me (thanks for that wucus I like that saying). She's a liar and a cheater and would break up a marriage. So is he, so if they want each other so be it. I'm to busy surviving, improving, grieving, having fun and becoming me again.<p>That is what plan A is about - working on becoming YOU again, showing you are willing to change so that you snap them out of the fog - if it ever happens - there's no guarantee it will work. The other reason for Plan A is so that you slowly fall out of love. This means that if it ever came time for plan B or god-forbid a divorce, there will be little love left (on your end) and you won't be left wondering 'what would have happened if I had tried?' <p>This is why everyone keeps saying plan A is for you. It is. Six months out of the average life span is not long, even a year. I want to know that if I have to leave my husband I tried everything I could to save my marriage. If I've done this, I can move onto a new relationship and understand better what will make it work. I will be better equiped and will most likely meet a person 'on my level'<p>Forgiver, this OW is a scoundrel. She has chosen to pursue a man who is married for her own benefit. I wonder, if she finally broke you up if she'd want him anymore? Do you really believe what they have is 'true love', yech! <p>Do not EVER put ow in the same category as yourself. She couldn't never compete. If he choses her, which may be a possibility, then what have you lost? A lier and a cheater. If he choses you, then what have you gained - a man who truly loves you and wants to work on your marriage.<p>Please keep going with plan A Forgiver, please keep trying. I know its demoralising at times, but think of it this way-can you live with yourself in a year if you divorced him without trying anymore? ARe you truly out of love with him? <p>Its good you came here to vent all this. You helped me through my tough times and I know you will again. We're all here for you now. This is so tough, but keep going, noone here ever said it would be easy.<p>Be patient, she's cracked up before because of your plan A and I'm sure she will again soon. I bet he's told her about how patient you were and how you wanted him back. I bet she's trying this out on him (she's trying to plan A), BUT, she's not you, and she's not as patient as you, she's going to crack eventually and LB big time. Forgiver, its a competition, who can last longer, her or you? I know you can do it.<p>If he goes to his parents, don't worry, I promise it will be easier on you. Him moving back home after what's happened was huge - when you think about it, its not suprising its hard on both of you. Today my husband called because of a family get together. I asked him if he wants me to go because I don't want to intrude and it will be uncomfortable. I asked him to be honest, he couldn't be. It upset me, but only temporarily, because at least he didn't say, 'I don't want you there' I have to try to focus on that. He said he can't make these decisions right now. How stupid. I'm making decisions everyday and I've had a double loss, my heart is broken, my life was torn apart. Yet I'm stronger than him, so if he leaves me, really who will be the loser? This stories not unique. This is your story too, its most people on this focum's story (just the details are different).<p>Look after yourself Forgiver, relax, refocus, we're all praying for you. THis hard time will pass and things will get better. We all love you!!!<p>[ May 08, 2002: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</p>

Thanks Everyone,<p>I'm better now. I reread Torizos post and Orchid's "guess the word game" helped. The missing word was "Do NOTHING!" After reading WAT's quickstart guide again. I remembered what I was trying to accomplish. I have to not let what is happening get to me. <p>In response to some of your posts:<p> Still seeking- Thanks for your help. I wrote my h a note to say i'd like to talk for 15 minutes tonight, Don't be scared I just want to let you know where I am coming from" He didn't come home though.
You asked if I may have pounced or seemed to be looking for answers when H first came home. No I have been very calm. No yelling or crying or "Putting my Foot down" (as my H told his Mom he expected me to do. This confuses him)I made sure I didn't act as if I wanted answers immediately. I told him Iunderstood this was hard and when he was ready and comfortable I was willing to discuss it for a short while in a calm respectful way.<p> Redhat- How are you holding up? I plan to see Spiderman this week. It is sick but I want to see the Richard Gere movie unfaithful b/c I hope the OP gets whacked and Richard Gere wins in the end.
I think you mention me having 6 months with H. No He goes back in sept. so it is only about 3 1/2 months. Although from his e-mails today I realize he is trying to get back into school this semester!! His friends are getting all his professors to speak to the DEAN on his behalf to let him come back to school on Monday!! But so far the dean has said NO WAY! I want to call his professors and ask them not to ask the dean to let my H return. To tell them to let him stay an dwork on his M. <p> Should I write my H a plan A letter? Should I write down how I feel and give it to him?<p>PsychoB**** Thank you! You are my flip side. I agree with what you have to say. I always think "What's the other side? He is playing me. I am being way too nice!" Last night I almost threw his stuff on the lawn and burned it! I remember you saying in and earlier post that my H was coming home to make nice and go back to OW in Sept. I think that too. But he has not tried to even pretend to try to work on M. He was here for a week. Didn't say too much and went to his Mommy's on Sunday. He called and left a message today to say he wasn't coming home until after Mother's day. After Mother's day? How far after? August?
You are right he may think he can go back to her and then come home to me but I may not be here. I am holding on doing a plan A with the belief it WILL work. Positive thinking, patience and perseverience PAY OFF!! If i want something I do not give up. Although I have had my moments.
I laughed when you said I welcomed him with open arms because I pictured myself with open arms and big as* boxing gloves on as i gave him an uppercut followed by a roundhouse to the head. I'm quite interested in the new J-lo movie where she kicks her H's butt! I can laugh about it. I boxed for 2 hours tonight. We got new bags in. They hurt!<p> I know you said to watch out that he will say what I want to hear. I do not believe anything he says. That's why I appreciate your point of view. I always try to guess the evil behind his words. I am in plan A. Not walking on eggshells or being a doormat. It is my understanding I have to basically ignore my H the alien's words and actions but to treat him civil and like a friend. But deep down I am calculating his every move. I am plan Aing and living for me. It is easier without him here.<p>Wucus- Thank you! I will like a candle to remind myself that she is nothing like me. However when I read their e-mails to each other they are all lovey-dovey about how hard it is to be apart and how much they miss each other. i fear OW is more skilled at saying what my H wants to hear. She writes e-mails of what she misses about him, taking showers in the morning together (we used to do that, even had a large shower with 2 shower heads put in our home), she misses his kisses, his cooking etc. That makes me laugh because while he was there with her and I didn't know about A and even after I did, I sent him 25 things I missed about him/us each week. Total I think I sent him 300 things I missed. Now she is trying to do the same thing I did. HE says she likes and says the same things I do. Well I SAID and DID them FIRST!!!!! She is second rate. His buddy from his child hood told him. Why go out for a hamburger when you have a filet mignon at home. Why get a copy when you have the origonal? <p>Seahorse- You are the best! Keep me going! Remind me what I am trying to do again? I love the scam thing. You can't get scammed if you know what is going on! I'm on to you fool! My H told MIL he is concerned I am so skinny. He thinks I will get sick or something. No I am HEALTHY and totally FIT!! My abs are ripped and I love it! I'm in the best shape of my life! Kickboxing, running 4 miles, yoga, aerobics etc. The 1 thing that makes me sad is I don't go to see my horse anymore. Too lonely and painful. I'm going to give him back since counseling 2x's a week will cost my barn board. My insurance company has not paid what they said and I had to pay $500.00 to my therapist. He said I should be reimbursed and that I have a case for the attorney general. He would like to report my insurance company for fraud if I am willing to make the case with him. Yet another project to tackle. My H thinks I got skinny because I am so stressed and upset and worried. My MIL said yes I am all those things but I am also healthy and fit. I chanelled my negative energy into physical activity. <p> You remind me that when this is over, I can't look back and say I didn't try everything to hang in there and save my M. I have less hope now that he is home and I read his e-mails. HE told his mom he wants to stop lying and tell the truth but he is afraid that when he says what he has to say everyone will hate him and get hurt. (He's gonna say it's over and he wants to spend his life with her but he doesn't have the guts or something else.... sorry guys.<p> In the end when my love dies, what have I lost? a liar and a cheat and someone who has a SERIOUS COMMUNICATION PROBLEM. He may have been miserable for 12 years and I never knew! His problems will follow him and that is a comfort for me. But what if he gets fixed and learns how to be better and brings what he has learned from me back to his R with OW? I fear H has checked my history on computer and pulled up my MB thread. I am just paraniod but now I erase all history. You guys should do that too.<p> Should I call his professors and ask them not to speak on my H behalf? He has been trying all week to get the Dean to let him come back and not miss this semester. My MIL told me my H really screwed his education by coming home. I fear he will resent me for this. Apparently by coming home now, he misses this semester. When he returns he will finish his schooling in St. Kitts in December 2003. He then has a 1 year clinic residency thing in the states. But that will not start until SEPTEMBER 2004 instead of JANUARY 2003 like he thought. Right now OW is 1 semester ahead as long as she passes without him. She will finish her run in St. Kitts in August of 2003. she will start her clinic in September of 2003. This will make her 3 semesters ahead of my H!!! My H will have to come home in Dec. of 2003, work until sept and start his clinic in Sept of 2004!!!
This is going to drag everything out. If they are still going on who knows what will happen. <p>I'm sorry this si soooooooooo long but thanks for staying with me till the end. I pray for us all and thank you all so much for coming out of lurking and giving me your shoulders and especially your encouragement. I really need the boost and reminders of what NOT to do.
Until tomorrow!
Forgiver

Yay! Forgiver's back!!<p>See, he's trying to find any weakness he can to find a reason to leave you (the weight, you poor fragile thing, you'll get sick - yeah right). But your strong, so even if you do get sick, you'll fight it and show him!!<p>I'm thinking maybe you shouldn't call the Dean as H might see it as controlling. Let him sort his own problems and make his own choices. If he ever says you forced him back to you or her you can deny it, because he's a big boy and can make his own decisions.<p>Honestly, my H is like this too. They act like kids. They accuse us of being controlling, but they don't take responsibility for their actions. I don't do anything for my H unless he directly asks me, that way I can never be accused of controlling him, and he might realise who's been carrying his [censored] for the last 10 years. <p>Hey, this has made me feel much better!! I was having a **** day (actually I still do feel ****, but it will pass).<p>Delete your computer history Forgiver, they are sticky beaks you know. I'm sure my H read my journal one night when I wasn't there - boy would he have got an eyeful!!

Forgiver,<p>Why plan A letter ? ... since your H is avoiding you and not to talk about R, you need to "explain" your plan A. No LB ... full of hope and love. OW has words you have words and actions to back it up [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .
Yes I missed calculate it ... I lost a lot of brain cells due to this mess and also withdrawal from paxil. 3.5 month ... This is when you have to find a deadline where you have to draw the line and boundry. IMVHO, you have given your best ... do you want to wait for 3 more years ?, there is a different between doormat and doing plan A !. You are a doormat while you are doing plan A focusing on yourself. However at some point you could plan A'ng you life out, it won't make any different 'cause there is nothing to fix no more !!!!. This is the time you have to take control 'cause you have done your 50% of working on M, if H doesn't want to it is his loss. You have a unique situation, time is so precious, you have to be very carefull and make no mistake. Check it w/ Jennifer.<p>Do nothing with the dean ... this is not about you, you are interfering with A. Let H do what he thinks best.<p>I am holding fine, I know what I want and I won't settle for anything less. I am also plan to see unfaithfull ...<p>-RH-

Hi Forgiver
I am so sorry for where you are. Saying your H avoids conflict is a huge understatement. He is an absolute coward. Even if he wants to end the marriage he owes it to you to at least talk to you about it. If he goes back to school without even discussing things with you that is the biggest cop out. I would like to cut his balls off. (Sorry for that language. He is running away from his problems and himself. Wants what he wants and can't face the consequences.<p>I think you should hotfoot it to the nearest bookstore and get Love Must be Tough by James Dobson. I think that reading this might give you some clarity on where you are and another way of handling things. I also think the time has come for you to raise the issue with him as it doesn't look like he is ever going to raise it with you. He is just going to run away. He needs to see what he is really doing here.<p>I might get belted up for this, but when I found out about my H affair I did not know about MB. I told H straight away I could not remain in a relationship with him with her involved. He was confused for a few days then convinced me his choice was me. He then rang OW to end it. She then rang me and let me know that A was much longer and more involved than he was letting on to get back at him (and I think hoping our M would end) That was enough for me. I told him marriage is over and he left that night. He was livid with OW rang her and abused her. (but I thank her because I don't think we could be where we are today if she had not revealed the truth). <p>This action convinced husband that he could not even consider a life without me. He said that he thought that I would always be there and hadn't truly realised what he could lose. He was a shattered man and cried for days and begged me to take him back. I said yes but no contact with her, Marriage counselling for us and IC for both of us. And work on marriage. He then became very open about what they had shared (very painful stuff to hear but necessary for me)<p>Then I found MB and then started my plan A. I have not been perfect. I went through an intense period of anger where I even hit him and we separated a coulple of more times. It is a very hard road and dealling with myself and my issues has been the hardes part. He has been great. We have a long way to go but we have come so far.<p>What I'm trying to say is you have to be open and honest with him and tell him how you feel. You can do this without lovebusting. But before he goes back you need to give it a shot and if you don't he may never face or even know what he has really done. Having had a H who fencesat for 13 years and strung both me and OW along I know that some men will never face things.<p>You are so right they are weak men. My C told me my H would have disintegrated with out me. She said a lot of my issue in recovery was dealing with the fact that I nedded to see him as a strong man and that he wasn't and that he felt that in me and ran away from it because he knew he was not.<p>I really think that book would be good for you to read NOW. I am no expert. So please only do anything you feel is right for you. You need to be right with you in all you do. This is where personal integrity comes from. Not from reflection of you H. You are awesome. <p>Good luck and hold on
C&S