Hi, Forgiver:<p>Just checking in. Sorry things do not seem to be going well. Perhaps this is the path you should be on right now. Let go of control of things -- I find that things generally work out for the best in the long run. Whatever happens will turn out to be the best for you. <p>Hang in there. Stay strong. Keep posting.<p>FHO

Looks like you are taking a long term view. Since he hasn't come back yet on is knees, holding flowers, and begging you to take him back, you don't come back and report anyting. (If you can't tell, I am teasing you.) <p>Well, we hope YOU are OK.
You are still in our prayers. <p>SS<p>[ May 22, 2002: Message edited by: still seeking ]<p>[ May 22, 2002: Message edited by: still seeking ]</p>

Hi Forgiver, Hope all is OK. Prayin' for ya.

Hello All,<p> Sorry I have not posted. I've been doing my own thing keeping very busy. Tyring to live with this new idea of being alone for 2 more years. My H left last Wednesday night and I have not heard from him until tonight.<p> He called and left a message that he wanted to come down tonight and talk. He'd like to stay a few days. I'm not sure why -I know they are in daily contact counting the seconds before they can squeeze each other again. Blechhhh!<p> I called him back and told him I was unable to meet with him. Tonight I have a project to finish that is due tomorrow for work. Tomorrow I am going out to dinner with my family to celebrate my father's birthday. I do not want this bad situation to eclipse my dad's special day so I asked we not talk about it. This weekend my brother his new girlfriend (I haven't met yet) my sister and some friends are coming out for the holiday. So I told my H that and perhaps he could come down one night next week. He said OK and he would give me a call after the weekend to find out when would be a good time.<p> Things do not look good at all. His heart is stone. Even though he cries I know what he has said and written to her and thus I have major withdrawls from my LB. I understand when Redhat tells me the longer it goes, the more he does, the more work it will take to restore our M. If he came back and was sincere tomorrow I would take him back. But he is so messed up I fear it will take years to get out of the fog. He is not willing to do the work right now. And by then my LB will be empty. There seems to be no hope. My therapist said he did not see any hope and thus he told my H to leave right away last Tuesday. He also said he had some serious issues that needed to be resolved or he was headed down a scary path. He said my "ex-husband is a sociopath". Can anyone explain? I was so shocked he called him my ex-husband I did not ask what a sociopath. At least he is not a psychopath.<p> June 1st (or is it July 1st?) would be 6 months since D-day. The situation has gotten worse. He has such overpowering feelings for her at this point and he is returning to her next week and so I guess I hand him over to her. No fight. A true plan A to the end. And I'm ok because I'm handing over one sick puppy. I just keep hoping "what comes around goes around." They should get what the deserve and hopefully I will get something better. My fear is I am so educated now as a MB pupil and to be an awesome spouse- that my standards are too high. I also dread having to spend the next 2 years "as if I am married" so I avoid paying him alimony and losing the house. He's not going to give that up. I know my therapist said my h is looking forward to spending the next 2 years loosening up and reliving his adolescence. He said my H is avoiding growing up, responsibilities and addressing his problems. He can put everything off for 2 more years. He is hanging around people in their early 20's who are just getting out on their own and not ready to settle down, stretching their wings. He said my h is at an age when he should be settling down and preparing to take on a more mature role and responsibilities. But he is avoiding it at all costs. So I have to wait and conduct myself accordingly. This sux.<p> He never took my plan letter. Should I give it to him along with a plan B letter? Some of my plan A already says what the plan B from WAT says. Should I repeat it to get through his thick skull -I mean fog? Also, I do not have a 3rd party we can communicate through. I feel our family members are too connected and none of our friends are involved. The ones that are I would not trust or he would not trust. Should we just communicate through e-mail if necessary? Should I not give a plan B at all and just let him leave? I would rather not see, speak or write to him at all at this point. I really do not want to write the plan B letter. Not because you can't go back to plan A but I just don't feel like it. I'm tired of doing all the work and having to choose my words carefully. We have only talked about the A and our R 2 times since this happened. Last tuesday and the tuesday before in counseling. That's it 12 years ending based on a combined 20 minutes of conversation. I told you he had communication problems!! And he did most of the talking! It's no use.<p> I guess I will tell him that I love him enough to let him go. And if he is truly happy than he owes that happiness to me. And everytime they have happy times together he can think of me and thank me. I think Orchid said that but i'm not too sure. Sorry if I misquoted someone. i have never said one negative thing to him through out this. Just been steadfast that I am willing to save or M and I believe in us. He does not want to hear any of it. He does not want to give me false hope or think there is a light at the end of the tunnel when he does not see a light for us. He wants me to go out and find someone else to be happy with. It's not happening. UUUGGGHHH!!! <p> Sorry guys I'm really tired and sad. To me it looks like it is over and I don't know how I feel right now. I still haven't cried and that scares me. I think it may be shock or avoidance? I don't know what to do anymore. Sorry I'm so down. I hope you all have better luck and news than I did. Thanks for being here.
Forgiver

Hi Forgiver: I am so sorry you are feeling so sad. It happens. I wonder if you have read Lostva's story? I read it today. It was really helpful. I found the link when I was reading in JFO in the topic "Any men who left family..." Please take the time to read it if you have not. There is still hope. And for the record, I found out about my WS's A in November 01' but it started in October. It just ended. The fog does lift. Hard to believe at times but it does lift. And then the really hard part begins. lol Hang in there kid. wu

Forgiver, I don't know much about this stuff, and don't do anything based on my advice, but I think you are definitely at plan B stage by what you say - but you know that, don't you?<p>I think your counsellor has been negligent - sorry, its just my opinion, but then I've had a bad experience with a marriage counsellor recently. Personally I would get a new counsellor.<p>I'm finding out things about my H that I find discusting too -I'm wondering how we deal with it, but then I realised I can't - its his problem. What you have said about how he looking forward to living singly and hanging round with younger people - yep, same scenario different alien. I seriously wonder if we married too young?<p>I'm feeling so sad for you. My heart was breaking reading this. I know it seems that nothing will change, but either way it has too. Life goes on. Take the time to grieve, feel the pain, cry if you have too, don't shut it up. <p>I don't know the logistics of plan B so will not comment, there are far more knowlegable people here. I do know that your husband will be the looser, and I'm sure deep down he knows that, I'm sorry he can't see it. From what I gather you can't tell how long the fog will last. I hope it lifts soon.<p>Hang in there Forgiver. We are all here for you and remember, if you need a holiday you can always come Down Under [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ May 23, 2002: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</p>

Oh Yeah Forgiver:<p>I agree. You counselor is horrible. And the things they are saying sounds like they are trying to cover their [censored]. You know more than your counselor!!!. You need a new one. Bye. wu

You said: "This sux." ..... soooo true!<p>You said: "It's no use." .... soooo NOT TRUE!<p>YOU are doing fantastic! YOU are truely AMAZING! YOU ROCK!!!!!!!<p>Keep your chin up sweetie.<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Forgiver,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>.... If he came back and was sincere tomorrow I would take him back. .... </strong><hr></blockquote> Don't take him back as is !. H has to do work and ammends you ! and don't settle for less. Remember the goal here is not only saving your M but restore & rebuild it with MB's foundation to have a fullfiling M !. You fear is waranted ... just ask Orchid !.<p>Fired that therapist !. I repeat my unanswer question, is he the one that you bring MB material to and sy that He understand it ?. He is no good therapist, he is an idiot too !. I know Jennifer is expensive but you have to squezee in an hour or so for her to assess H !. Call Jennifer quick an get her input, you need her experience to evaluate your situation. Probably to ask H to talk to Jennifer to help you out to understand the situation better.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong> He never took my plan letter. should I give it to him along with a plan B letter? Some of my plan A already says what the plan B from WAT says. Should I repeat it to get through his thick skull -I mean fog? Also, I do not have a 3rd party we can communicate through. I feel our family members are too connected and none of our friends are involved. The ones that are I would not trust or he would not trust. Should we just communicate through e-mail if necessary? Should I not give a plan B at all and just let him leave? I would rather not see, speak or write to him at all at this point. I really do not want to write the plan B letter. Not because you can't go back to plan A but I just don't feel like it. I'm tired of doing all the work and having to choose my words carefully. We have only talked about the A and our R 2 times since this happened. Last tuesday and the tuesday before in counseling. That's it 12 years ending based on a combined 20 minutes of conversation. I told you he had communication problems!! And he did most of the talking! It's no use. </strong><hr></blockquote>
IMHO, you must give H a plan B letter and skip plan A letter ( I recon that you have sent it already via email ). The purpose of plan B letter is for you, not for H or punish H. Most of WS will not turn around way until they feel that their new life is not worth loosing BS and hit the rock bottom. It is the different between being a doormat and loving BS !. W/o plan B letter you just being looked at as doormat and even you are willing (you aren't Dv H, in a sense it is a doormat), you need let him know for your own recovery down the road. It is your choice not to give him one but you will have a hard time recovering this !. Just look at the beginning of your posts, do you want to be there again for the next 2 years ?. You did the best you can and your H doesn't recognize it. You know there are lots of people will be glad to cherrish it, even half of you has given H. <p>Take care, -RH-

Hi Forgiver, I'm still praying for you both (H & you) and hope you are getting stronger. Please don't feel this is the end, its just a big pot hole and you've got to change the tyre. Then you start out on the road again!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Forgiver my dear,<p>How are you doing? Just wanted to give you a bit of a pep talk regarding jumping to conclusions by getting our hopes to high. <p>I did. Got burned. Had to go through 4 false recoveries. Each one wore me down. I am too old & too short to keep up this kind of repeated offenses. LOL!!! <p>I suggest you set your boundaries and take a look at faith1. She is NOT letting her H back. He is claiming and now has to show he is earning her trust back. She makes it look easier than it is. Go check out her post on GQII. <p>Remember, respect yourself!!!<p>
Hugz,
L.

Forgiver, please come back and post. I am really worried about you, so I'm sure everyone else is too. Even if its just to say you're OK and that's it.<p>SH

Hey Guys!<p> I'm doing great! No, nothing with my H. Just plan A all the way!<p> I have not reread my post so I'm not sure if i told you. My H called last thursday b/c he wanted to come home that night. I told him no. He wanted to come out for the weekend, again I said no. I had plans. His mom said he has been home and no one calls him. He made plans to go out and everyone cancelled. He went to another state on Sunday with his dad to visit some family. He was on his way home tonight and called to see if he can come tomorrow (tuesday) I told him OK and asked that he bring my scuba gear. He said he would be here when I got home from work. I plan on giving him his scuba gear and the plan b letter (thanks WAT). He says he wants to talk.
Thank you for checking up on me wucus, orchid, seahorse and readhat and everyone else (sorry if I left anyone out.. Oh yeah any lurkers too!). I spent a fantastic weekend with my brother's girlfriend and her friends and family. Had a GREAT time!! Really felt good about myself and my whole situation (can you believe that?). I have looked back and I know I've done everything possible it is up to him now. Anyway, I ENJOYED myself for the first time in forever! I am letting go and I'm OK. It is going to be alot harder for him as days go by. He has alot of work ahead of him. More than on his knees with flowers...not gonna do it, nope. He needs a major overhaul and that is a self service thing he has to come to grips with.<p> Sorry I was down the last few posts but I'm way up now. I love this Plan A! Hang in there everyone you are always on my mind. I'll post on Wednesday or thursday after he leaves. He flies back to her on Thursday.
Goodnight!
Forgiver

Forgiver,<p>I am glad you are fine, most of us busy and assume no news is a good news ... I run out of nail to bite [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] .<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>He was on his way home tonight and called to see if he can come tomorrow (tuesday) I told him OK and asked that he bring my scuba gear. He said he would be here when I got home from work. I plan on giving him his scuba gear and the plan b letter (thanks WAT). He says he wants to talk.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Let H talk first and just listen and be very loving and understanding then if he is still in his fog give him plan B letter. No LB'ed, even kiss him farewell b/c that is the moment that he will always remember ... the last time you have contact.<p>Be strong ... God Bless you -RH-

Dear Forgiver, I'm so happy you are OK and you are standing your ground with H. It sounds to me you are back on track - yay!!<p>This plan A stuff can be fun, but its also bloody hard work.<p>Anyway, glad everythings good. SH

Greetings All,<p> H came home last evening while I was cutting the lawn. I ran out of gas so he went with me to get more. We came back and I cut the grass while he weed whacked. It was just non chalant conversation. We went to a fast food place for dinner. No conversation. On the way back home he asked if there was anyhting I wanted to ask him. If I had any questions or if I wanted to know anything. I told him no. I have nothing more to say. (Whenever he tells me anything he is so vague and I am tired of trying to figure out what it all means) I'd rather not ask any questions. I told him. "Hon, you know I love you. That's is all I've ever done. i've always wanted you to be happy, no matter what the cost to me. I want you to be happy so I set you free, I let you go. I love you that much that I am willing to do it even at the expense of my own happiness. And if you are truly happy then you owe your happiness to me. And any joyful moment you have in the future, it will be because of me. You will owe your happiness to me. And I do this because I love you. That's all I've ever done." All he said was "you're right". He then added So if things change I'll call you and if anything changes with you, you call me. What is that suppossed to mean? How wishy-washy can you get? That is it? That is all he has to say?<p> I went to therapy and my therapist had some very interesting things to say about my H's character flaws. He apparently manifests several psychological problems that are deeper than I know about. And because of this I am in no rush to take him back. He has some deep dishes to sort through. I will not take him back at the drop of a hat. There will be very serious homework assignments for him.<p> Narciccistic, super-ego, hero-complex, detatchment, fragmented morals, and completely compassionless were all used during the conversation. my therapist said it was very scary that my H can walk out of 12 years like he was going out shopping. He said my h is beyond a coward. My h can not face me and talk to me. He has such a lack of compassion that he has come back to play the hero but can not talk about it at all. I am too weary to talk about it any more. I left him the plan A for the second time- which he put in the top of the hall closet. He read it last time and left it. I put it in his book and he left it again in th ecloset this time. I have the plan B which I will give to him when I get home. He was sleeping when I left for work. I think he will be home when I get there and I will give it to him. If he is not I will drive 2 hours to give it to him at his mother's house tonight. He leaves for St. Kitts tomorrow. I hope he's home when I get home and he takes the letter and leaves. I've had enough.<p> I hope you are all doing well in your sagas. I will catch up this weekend.
Forgiver

((((((((Forgiver)))))))),<p>Hugs to you. You have been through a really rough time. You have done the best you can. Now is time for you to get some rest and continue to concentrate on you. Plan B will probably be easier for you after a while. It will be just like he is away again at school. You will have all the time to do what you want -- don't worry about him. Go on with your life.<p>Good luck. We are still here to support you. If your H cannot realize that he just traded the gold mine for a bag of fool's gold, then it is his loss. You are going to be fine with or without him.<p>FHO

You really do need to go to plan B. You seem to be angry ( just observing, not judgeing.) You have fought a good fight, do what you have to do.
If you have anything left, please preserve it as best you can. <p>SS

Forgiver,<p>That all BS could do. Specially when we are facing a cake eater (judging from what he said to you) ... you do the right thing by giving plan B before he leaves. You need to heal your wound and no contact is the best way for you. Save all evidence and talk to a lawyer ... in some state there is a time limit for abandonment, you get automatic Dv, all you need it is filed it, your H has no saying on this !. So in actuality you have a choice before 2 years is up. Make him prove that he is worthy of you ... a woman's worth [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>Hang in tough ... -RH-

Hi Forgiver,<p>((((Forgiver))))<p>Are you sure your therapist has not confused my husband and yours?<p>Anyway, I'm sorry it has come to this. I don't know what else to say to you. I'm tired too.<p>Do you want to come dive the President Coolidge in Vanuatu with me?<p>Just a thought. <p>Hey, maybe we could get married? The only problem being we're not lesbians, so I guess it would be doomed from the beginning.<p>Oh well, I hope life works out for both of us. It can't get any worse anyway.<p>SH