Please help me. I am Plan A'ing as hard as I can, Ihave been told 3 times that she has gone, but right now there SMSing each other on bloody valentines day (i got not a thing and I don't really care either). He has changed her name to Bee on his phone and the phone number has changed, which I think he has paid for (I got a mysterious bill in the mail that work pays for). Although I love my husband, right now I think he is scum and I want him to go. This is my plan, please help me with it.<p>1. I know where she lives - confront her with my marriage certificate and wedding photos (he has lied to her about being married he told me and he has never worn a ring).<p>2. Call my Dad and ask for help.<p>3. Pack his bags tomorrow, and drop them at his work place, book him a hotel and ask him to leave until he sorts this out.<p>4. Quickly get legal advice about how to protect myself financially (he is extrememly nasty with me at the moment and I frightened he's going to do something very nasty like spend all our money and leave me with nothing.<p>I have got meds from doc, but took one last night and I've been quite ill since, personally I think it is being in shock thats reacting with the med as I am often shaking, quite literally. <p>I do not live in US, but will wait for a little while for some replies - its just after midnight here, so I have a few hours. I won't go to work tomorrow so I can sort all this out.<p>As you can see, I am pretty desperate, but I don't know if I can handle the lies, its sending me round the twist. <p>Please help me, I'm absolutely desperate

I have been reading through plan A by misdirection, and I think it would be best if I did ask him to leave straight away. There are two reasons - one he is a habitual lier and I don't think its going to change.<p>two - he is way out of love credits right now, and if there is to be a reconciliation and I sincerely hope there is, he has to break it off and be committed. <p>I'm not afraid anymore, but will wait a while to see if you wil reply

OK - let's prioritize what you want to do.<p>disclaimer: I am NOT an attorney. Inaddition, I am not familiar with the differences in your national/territory laws (I suspect you're an Aussie.)<p>IMHO, first seek the legal advice. Go get an attorney first thing in the morning. Be prepared to describe all your joint financial holdings. Ask your attorney whether you should liquidate all your cash assets before your H does and set aside his fair share.<p>Ask your dad for help.<p>I recommend NOT contacting OW or packing your H's stuff immediately. All actions should be with regard to protecting yourself - not trying to influence other people.<p>Keep us informed.<p>WAT

Hi, <p>First of all, here is a [[]] for you. You have been through a lot but no more than the rest here. All our stories are riddled with pain. <p>So since you have been getting some good support from some pretty great people, please let me drop in my 2 cents. <p>1. Don't enable your H.
This means, don't pack his clothes, don't book
the hotel, don't drop it off from work.<p>2. Let him do whatever he threatens (divorce, move
out whatever). If he threatens violence then
learn your rights and take action. <p>3. Read the books here, his needs/her needs is a
good place to start. Love must be tough by Dr
James Dobson is another good book.<p>4. Strengthen your personal support group.
Counselor, family, friends, children, pet....<p>5. Keep venting here. <p>6. Read the basic concepts and re-read them. <p>7. Take the emotional needs questionnaire.
Once for you and him, if he won't take it
pretend you are him and see how it comes out.
Then read the info and take it again. <p>8. Keep a journal. <p>9. Look into the divorce/separation laws in your
area. Know your rights. <p>10. Protect your assets. <p>11. If you suspense the OP of something wrong,
check them out. USWEB Search is a good place
to start. Costs a few bucks but you may
find stuff......There may be other tools
available. <p>You will be sooo busy doing the above, your pain will decrease. Just be careful you don't go gung ho and lose focus of your goal.....personal and marital recovery. Personal recovery is within your control, full marital recovery requires both. Don't make goals you can't reach on your own. Let your mate see the better you. <p>Hope this helps. <p>L.

OK You know how I said I wasn't frightened, I spoke to a lawyer and now I am. She told me (and please I do not wish to offend anyone here for any reason), that the story I have told re OW being Thai and he said she was gone, etc, etc is a very common story. She said that next thing she will become pregnant, he will move in with her and she will become a resident. Then she will kick him out, he will try to come back to me and then take half my assets. How;s that for a scary story? I'm quite literally skaking like a leaf. Lawyer is giving me some legal info. Dad is very supportive, Friends are very supportive. H has been abducted by aliens all last night (neither of us slept a wink, phone was hidden probably to communicate and "butter" him up for next step). He's going out drinking "with friend" tonight, dosent know when he will be home, what if tonights the night?<p>Basically this is going to cost me a fortune if I persue this, but if I wait what happens then? I may have nothing left and she'll have it all. SHould I wait should I go. Maybe I should wait, so that at least he may feel guilty about leaving me and be nice, although he can be very unfeeling - this is a man who told his father to leave his mother because she was a moron.<p>I know everyone is saying he's irrational and I can see that, but he can be very nasty if he wants and he may do that if he's acting irrationally and feeling guiltly (as that is the side I've seen of him the last few days).<p>Should I try to find out for sure if they are definitely meeting up (ie do some PI survellience work?) <p>Oh god, I love my husband, but I really can't see any hope for a reconciliation in all this confusion, what if she does take him for everything? I have to protect me otherwise I'll be broke.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Seahorse:
<strong>......what if she does take him for everything? I have to protect me otherwise I'll be broke.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
Assume the worse and then you will be prepared for most of what happens. This is painful to say and do but that is what you will have to face. I am not saying it is over, I am saying that you will be on that awful 'roller coaster'. <p>NOw it is important for you to work your way to the point where you will find the control over your emotions. Do your homework. Take care of yourself. <p>Don't fall for all his words. Watch his actions. Read the books suggested. If you can schedule sometime with Steve or Jennifer, then do so ASAP. <p>When he wants to talk, let him but again don't make life changing decisions based on either of your emotions. He threatens to go to the OW, let him. He calls you names, walk away. Preserve your respect. Show your H the better U. <p>Hugz,
L.

I know what you mean Orchid, I've been saying to myself, you got to face the worst, and anything from there is a bonus. It still really really hurts though, I can't help thinking of him being with her.<p>I've got a plan, but I'm not doing anyting rash at the moment. There is a part of me that still wants him. <p>He is still at home, we had a bit talk this morning, he gets worked up. But I've told him, he will make the final decision to call it quits unless he is still in contact with her, in which case I want him to leave. I told him that if he is lying to me he will have to live with his conscience.<p>He's told me he still sees her frineds and still insists she has returned to Thailand. We had a holiday planned in March, he's told me he was going to go with one of her friend to Bangkok and travel all through there. I told him that if he does that he will have contact with her and that he must leave.<p>I know you have said do not give ultimatums, but i feel this is one I have to give. I do not want him while he has her on the side.<p>I told him as a friend to be careful and take precautions against her - he seemed to accept this.<p>I also told him that he is free to chose what he wants to do and when.<p>I still think hes lying and that she is still here and that he's going to holiday with her. <p>I cannot trust this person and don't know when I ever will again. <p>This is the toughet thing I've even been through, everyday is a new day. Today I feel ok, tomorrow I don't know. <p>I do love him, but he's lied so much and been so nasty, how do you keep hanging in there?

Seahorse - please believe me when I say that most of the BSs here have been EXACTLY where you are: <p>can't trust<p>can't believe we can forgive<p>can't stand the pain<p>can't believe we'll survive<p>Bu here we are. People like me, Orchid, Teri, and mthrrhubrrd (I always mis-spell her moniker).<p>I expect to add Seahorse to that list.<p>You WILL stand the pain. You WILL cope. You WILL be the strong one. You WILL be the hero!!<p>Believe it or not, your H needs you. YOU need you. We are here for you.<p>
Knowledge is power and here you will find the knowledge. Your H is on a fantasy cruise and it'll dock eventually. It's dern near impossible, but the best thing for you to do is to be cool and find some way to occupy yourself while this runs its course. THEN you'll have an opportunity to restore your marriage. <p>Right now, you're just like all us other BSs in that you want it to happen NOW!!!<p>Patience is a virtue and this virtue is imperitive right now for you - as it is for ALL other BSs.<p>Examine yourself for things that need to be changed, then sit back, knowing you're on the moral high ground, and be patient.<p>You WILL reap your rewards in one form or anopther. I promise.

Seahorse....are you an Aussie? I suspect you are, cos I am one.<p>WAT is giving you very good advice, and so are many others here. I have a similar experience to you so I will share it, sicne you are worried about OW taking H for all he has got.<p>My H and I were working OS in Mozambique. He took up with a Mozambican girl, and if you know anything at all about that country, you will know it is very poor. I was told these girls make a habit out of picking up white men for the sole purpose of getting their money, so when he eventually TOLD me she was Mozambican, I flipped to another level.<p>Yes, she got money from him, (not a LOT, but too much IMO) yes, she got an easy ride for a while (in more ways than one [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] ), but he DID wake up to her, and not before long.<p>She admitted she was after his money when he was trying to break it off.....oh but I love you too, honey, yeah, right. I know she said this because I was listening into the phone conversation they had (with H's permission).<p>Okay, well it ended, and that was good....he went on from there as you can see from my signature, but I am here to tell you that if your man has half a brain, he will work it out. And BTW, it may be a love-buster, but I told him as soon as I knew she was Mozambican about the local girls little ploy, and I believe it did make him think. Maybe you can somehow share the same info to your H? You don't have to say where you got it from...just tell him this:<p>You were talking to a friend (me) and you heard that a guy she knows married a girl from Zimbabwe (true), brought her back here to Australia, and within a week she was gone, suing for divorce and took him for everything, claimed he bashed her, etc, etc. That is a TRUE story, and just because she was from Zimbabwe makes no difference. She was after citizenship, which at the time she attained as soon as she married. I believe the laws have changed somewhat these days, but H doesn't have to know THAT little detail [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>Anyway, take heart, seahorse (I love your name) and try to Plan A until you can't stand.<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

GOOD MORNING SEAHORSE
You have gotten a lot of great advice here. Just remember.... you are on an emotional roller coaster... hang on... prepare to fight for what is yours... and just take one day at a time.. Yes there is a God.. even if He seems far away at times... I light my candle and pray filling my pillow with tears each night. But, He will not leave me or forsake me even in my darkest hour. We can not change our mate only make yourselves stronger and pray the fog will lift and they will come to their sences before it is too late. Keep yourself busy... and know we are here for you... Hugs GF

Yes, I'm an Aussie, and currently I'm in one of the seediest parts of Aust just walking, and thinking and looking and searching.(Jacky will probably guess where this is-another eastcoaster).<p>I'm afraid that I'm faily miserably at Plan A, and seem to be pushing him away because I get afraid and insecure. I'm scared he's going to take a whole lot of money, but as I said I've had a bit of legal advice so know where I stand.<p>He's still pretty adamant about moving out and says its because of the way I am acting. I keep trying to reassure him that it will get better, but as I said he wants out.<p>He keeps saying he needs space, etc etc. He's going to holiday in Thailand (at her boyfriends!!)resort in Phuket - if all this is true. What can I do? I just have to let him go, don't I?<p>He's so caught up in this image. He's says she wears Armarni and blah blah blah, he totally blind! HE has a good woman who has prven for 10 years how much she loves him and he wants Armarni in Phuket! I always thought he was an intelligent man, but boy oh boy, he really has been abducted by aliens.<p>Anyway as I said, and I keep trying to refocus on other things, that today I'm on a little expedition into the city. I'm even planning to go watch a movie by myself (i've only done this once before).<p>I really don't feel like working tomorrow, but I need a job and will struggle on. <p>Jacky I did tell him about the story of some Thai women (please don't take offence anyone, I work in an Interpreter service although I'm not bilingual) he said he wasn't silly and wouldn't let anything like that happen, besides, he said, shes rich and he never pays for anything when he goes out - nothing is free buddy!<p>I'm fluctuating between being OK and despair today, but I feel a little better now.

Seahorse,<p>
I would love to chat with you. I will send you my phone number, or you can send me yours and I will call you.<p>Anything to help!<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky<p>[ February 17, 2002: Message edited by: Nina too ]</p>

OK so now, as hard as this is to think, say, write. I have to "move on". He's told me this (although he also says he dosen't want to end the marriage). Will I start to feel like moving on, or do I just do it and the feelings will get better. I've never been alone before, I don't know how this is done.<p>As I said, he has decided he is taking our planned holiday with someone else, and has told me I should go where-ever I want. I thought of someplace warm with water, beach and lots to do (I live in Australia by the way, so it shouldn't be too hard). Thing is, I only know of resorts and can't bear to watch lovers strolling hand in hand under the moonlight (we used to do that).<p>I'm not single, and don't intend to go somewhere that will lead me into trouble - I couldn't stand the complication.<p>I'll have to work on this one, its all a bit too much to think of. It still one day at a time.

So this is what I'm struggling with at the moment. Have just been to staff counsellor. she says what everyone else here says - move on, fix yourself-I'm 100% in for this as I was frustrated and unhappy before D-day and I think this is a major reason why (overdependent on H - gave up life for H, sit and wait for H to come home, etc).<p>OK so I'm thinking now, as you can see by my earlier post, about what I can do (join a club, etc). But what I want to know is: do I ever (at the moment) as H if he wants to say, go to a movie, have sex, say I love you to him, etc or do I wait for him to make this move?<p>I'm confused. I'm being nice, and listening, but don't really know if what I'm doing is the "right" thing. I'm dying to know if he's definitely going to Bangkok to see Ow, but too afraid to ask. If he does tell me, shouldn't I ask him not to see her? I feel as though I should but again I'm afraid to do this. <p>This morning I told him I would be organising my holiday and that I was going away this weekend, and I think he was a little taken aback. He sent me an email with "love you" on the end - I think he's worried now, but I don't expect this to last long. <p>Any advice would be welcome. I'm feeling 10% better today which I think is better than nothing or feeling worse. Again, I'm taking this a day by day, hour by hour.<p>[ February 17, 2002: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Seahorse:
<strong>Have just been to staff counsellor. she says what everyone else here says - move on, fix yourself</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hi Seahorse - I also responded to your post on GQII.<p>If this counselor is advising you to "move on", be wary. This is a common recommendation of well intended advisors who may not believe that marriages can survive affairs.<p>You are experiencing the most emotional part of the roller coaster right now, and we all understand your reaction to want him to leave.<p>Please reconsider this.<p>That's exactly what this thought is - a "reaction." But think about it. You don't really want him to leave, right? Why contribute at this point to exactly what he thinks he wants - an end of the marriage? By asking him to leave, you're relieving him of making this his responsibilty.<p>The same can be said about filing for divorce. Only when all else has failed and the break up of the marriage is inevitable and the WS won't do it, should the BS do it.<p>You are still VERY early in this ordeal. I don't say that to scare you about how long your pain will last - but to emphasize that it's far too early to assume he's in this for the long haul. You've already stated how you've started to feel a little better, so you're following the normal course. Try to Plan A yourself to demonstrate your improvements. You can't do this if you kick him out.<p>There may come a time to ask him to leave - but only when you've demonstrated your improvements and only if he doesn't leave on his own. That's what Plan B is for.<p>WAT

(Please excuse the jumbled order of this posting-moved this from GQII as I'm getting too confused).<p>Hi WAT, I hear what your saying - and I'll be honest, it would make me feel better if a nice guy came along and told me how wonderful I am, because right now, I don't feel it. I keep wondering what OW has that I don't - he says she has money, etc, etc, but I know that this thinking is getting me nowhere, and I know that finding a "friend" would be a disaster (for me, for the "friend"( and give my H-an excuse to blame me, so no I wouldn't do it. <p>I am looking for new interests and new friends (of the friendship variety) though, as I have been too clingy and dependent on H, and he told me loud and clear on the weekend he absolutely hates it (and believe me there was no fog present at all at that moment). He told me he hates to see people walking over me, and he dosen't know why I do that. This is what I need to do for me,. before we were married I was independent, had interests, went shopping and was fun. But for the past year I have been very unhappy, depressed and frustrated that I have wonderful ideas about things I could do, but never DO anything about them, life passes by and I live with regret. He is a 'fix it' man and has not been able to fix this (as he sees it), but HE can't. I think it has been a lot of pressure for him (along with his job where he is also a 'fix it' man of sorts).<p>I don't know what to do or say to him at the moment, I've ordered the book SAA (hard to locate in Australia) over the net, so at the moment this website is my main support (besides my friends and the counsellor). I am reading HNHN and getting some of it. <p>WAT re the counsellor, I think deep down she does want to tell me to tell him where to go, but I've made it pretty clear to her I want to be with him, so she needs to accept this. But what we have talked about so far has been good. That is, my mother could be very nasty to me, and as a kid I got the message I was not good enough, which has carried through to adulthood. The times this hasn't affected me was when I was 18 and just finish school and got a job and had some freedom (and met my H), then when I finished Uni and got a job. She helped me to identify this, and is helping me do something about it. I don't think she wants to focus on the marriage anymore, but on me.<p>Sometimes I want to say "I love you" to H, but am afraid this will be seen as too pushy. I want to invite him to dinner, but then he might think I'm being over-reliant. I want to initate sex, but last weekend when I did (and we did have sex) he said he felt guilty and it made his decision harder (I don't know what decision he was talking about). Last night we again had sex at his initiation and we both enjoyed it, but I don't know when I'm doing or saying the right things. Do I just let him call the shots, but what about filling his love bank (or should I just avoid LBusters at the moment)? I am trying to meet EN's, and he has commented the last few days that my figure looks like a swim suit model (which I think I look OK too), so I presume this is a small deposit in the love bank?<p>I still want my marriage WAT, don't get me wrong. When I say "move on" I mean I'm just going to start living my life and if he decides to join in it will be good. For example, I've arranged to see friends this weekend, and will call another friend to arrange dinner. I'm arranging my holiday (as he wants to holiday separately) and will go visit a friend up north and then go on a diving course. He is really encouraging me with this, but sometimes I wonder what the ulterior motive is, or is he testing me to see if I really can do it on my own, or does he just want me out of the way so he can move out or be with her?<p>I think he is going to Malaysia, and Bangkok with one of her (supposedly) male friends (if it is a friend and not her), and I'm sure he's going to meet up with her. I feel like telling him that if he does this our marriage will be over. Won't it just start all over again? He's being secretive and won't tell me anything. He also told me to stop snooping, don't open his mail or ask to see his phone. So, I haven't. Is this all really Plan A? God help me if this has to go on for months, because he's driving me bonkers, I don't know what is lies and what is truth anymore.<p>Actually WAT, I don't think I could handle a "friend" at the moment anyway, I'm far to in love with my H. I'm just frightened that his show at reconciling at the moment is a farce and that all this will come crashing down around me.<p>Yesterday he seemed like the H I used to know, but I don't expect that today will be the same, I will just wait and see and in the meantime, do what I need to do to get through the day. <p>
20.2.02
Today he was acting a little strange butI managed to get a love deposit in last night which felt really good and he said "thank you, thats really a nice thing to say" <p>He is going out tonight for drinks, so I'm planning a full night to keep occupied. I would like some feedback re yesterday's post though as I don't know about this trip to Bangkok (if he does go).
Help

Ok so help me now!<p>H got a letter from the bank which I sneaked - its his new $8000 limit visa card. - what the f*** do I do now?

I've just found out he's bought a Thai phrasebook and changed the code on his phone. He got home at 2am this morning. <p>WAT help, I really feel I'm been taken for a ride. He says he hate to see me let people walk over him and here i'm doing just that. I feel lower than dirt, I feel like I couldn't love him again for all the lies.<p>I've told a couple of people who has said they have notice he is very strong willed and does what HE wants.<p>I don't feel like I should be putting up with this. I feel like I want him to go.

Seahorse,<p>No time now, but I will come back later.<p>((((((((((((((seahorse))))))))))))))))))<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

Did a big LB this morning but don't feel like I can cope with this situation. Asked him if he would prefer to go. If he was in some kind of trouble (reassured him I would help him no matter what - and I would) ask him if he was seeing a counsellor - says no he dosen't need to see one as he has his friends.<p>I told him he was really hurting me and that I felt used-he was offended by that. Told him I don't think he can work out his problems while I'm around, but reinforced that it would be his decision to leave, not mine as I want him to stay - which is not altogether true.<p>I know I shouldn't have done all this, but I am frightened, angry, upset, hurt and heartbroken. I do not understand why he is lying to me, I've told him that it would be better if he told me it was over than to string me along like this.<p>I LB'd big time, but I do feel used. I feel like he just wants some stability until after he goes on his holiday ( in 4 weeks) and starts his new job (in 2 weeks)-he told me he loves me and has for 12 years, but it was very clinically said.<p>Am I being conned guys, please help me. I have to wait for ages for the book to arrive in Aust. and I don't know what I'm doing