Oh seahorse!!
{{{{{HUGS}}}}}
Hang in there baby! It's a down day. this too shall pass. I wish you could come and stay at my place. Our dogs could play together. <p> It's getting to you. And it will you have every right to feel completly lost. But get it out of your system. SCREAM!! play music really REALLY loud! Sing until your lungs burst. Get all theat negative energy out. Pound a pillow, Go running as fast as you can. Do sit ups, push ups. Go crazy. But get it out.<p> Look at what he is doing to you right now. How it makes you feel. It sucks. Take control and try not to let him gat to you. LET HIM GO! And move on with your plan A. Live for yourself. You were doing great from yur earlier post. You didn't let his comments get to you. When he wants to go out you tell him to go and have a good time. you should go out too. Don't let him see you stay home all the time.

There was a great post about a woman who did a 180 on her H. She would go out to concerts or get really dressed up to go out dancing. Sometimes she would go out other times she went to a convient store and drank coffe in the parking lot for hours- just to make her H think she was having a good time without him. I'll try to find that post. it may be too early for you to do a 180 but the post will keep you laughing and on the edge of your seat. <p>Does anyone else know the post I am talking about?<p> Please don't sleep in the car. Please go to a friends or just stay home. I wish I could be there for you. Believe me I feel your pain. We all do. But remember too- it's still early. Give it time and let him go. Live for Seahorse- she's the most important person.
Forgiver

Seahorse,
Where are you? Hope you are doing better. I am thinking about you. Let us know.
Forgiver

I'm back here again seems easier to follow. <p>H came home yesterday. All went well. I asked him what his intentions were re staying. He said that he had hoped he could stay until Tuesday morning as he will be travelling for work after that. So, remembering my boundaries I said I was happy for him to stay as long as I was treated with respect. <p>He said ok and that he respected the email i sent him about this. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>We started talking practical because of the situation, but it ended up R. This was ok, I didn't initiate it he did and we spoke well.<p>He will be moving out after his trip to Bangkok [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] which I am still pissed off about, but there is nothing I can do to stop him.<p>I told him that I think it will do us both good. I listened to things he said and told him things I was doing (getting a second job, going for a bike licence) I also told him that as soon as i can I will be out of this house (due to certain circumstances this will be an indefinite time). This shocked him (I could see it) and he quickly assured me that he was only moving out for six months (buying time in my opinion).<p>He questioned why I have "fixed" some things about myself when for years I was in and out of counselling and didn't change. All I could answer was the because of the situation I found myself in (in shock and pain) I had no choice but to look at what was wrong. I feel that this whole thing has been parrallel to a near death experience for me. I had no choice to look and change - life is too short.<p>He told me he regretted what happened Monday night (re threatening me, the yelling, etc) and that he dosen't want it like this. I agreed and told him how much i respect him (actually I respect who HE is, not the other strange person that has taken him over).<p>Other good things: we went shopping to buy luggage for his trip <p> [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] I gave my opinions and even bought the damn things. He even asked me if it was ok if he went to the supermarket with me because he thought I looked sexy (now THAT's something I haven't heard for a while) and even asked for a good morning kiss while we were in there. <p>now I know not to get my hopes up, but this has helped a lot. I'll take these moments anyday as this is the man I married. <p>Although I am scared of him moving out (he may never come back), I feel that it will give both of us the space we need. I feel I am getting a little stronger now. The shock is starting to fade, although the hurt does come and go (like all day yesterday at the meditation class). I've just got to find that strength in me to keep it going.

Good job. I hope you see why he treated you a little better. It's because of your Plan A. Do you understand that there is NO WAY any of this would have happened if you had instead acted like a raving lunatic - attacking, accusing, threatening, screaming, etc. - all the things that seem so "right" to do in reaction to his crime?<p>I think the most significant thing you described is his "6 month" move. This describes where he really is:<p>Squarely on top of the fence.<p>Your actions have made him far less sure of his intentions. I believe he's questioning his decisions. This doen't mean he's gonna totally change his mind in the near term, but he's at least considering alternatives.<p>So what do you do?<p>Keep doing the same things you've been doing. Most of all, DO NOT lovebust. One "aw shucks" can erase 1000 "at-a-girls."
Liz, I think you can now claim the upper hand. This doesn't mean you're gonna be successful anytime soon, but you do understand a whole lot more about what's going on than he does. Knowledge is power. You understand FAR more about yourself than you did just a few weeks ago. On the other hand, he's groping in the dark. He doesn't have the knowledge you've gained from this site and hasn't reaped the rewards of introspection.<p>BTW, it's very common for WSs to ask, "Why now." You gave a perfect answer - you were honest.<p>Keep up the good work but please understand that this is a rollercoaster. You WILL get disrespected, insulted, and treated like poop again without warning. He WILL act like a full on SOB again. Try to look beyond these momentary setbacks. Expect them as part of the beast. This way, hopefully you'll be better able to handle them when they occur.<p>WAT<p>[ March 17, 2002: Message edited by: worthatry ]</p>

Yeah WAT, I can see how it worked better, he confided a lot more about his trip (not much, but more than I knew). My instincts are really telling me not to get angry to what he does right now.<p>I am struggling with this Bangkok trip thing, I don't want it to be my undoing (I think I have one week before he goes). The trip is getting to me. I feel like my whole marriage rest on what the girl/girls does. I might post this on GQII as well, just for a bit of a vent - get it all out here, so to speak.<p>He's going to be in the jungle, riding elephants, in Phuket, etc etc. This is stuff I would have died to do with him, and damn it he knows that. That's what really hurts. He knows that and he's going with someone else. <p>I told him that on Monday (during the fight) but have not mentioned it since.<p>How do I get this out of my mind? How do I handle it when he comes back and tells me all about it? It will be so hard not to feel jealous. I read lostva's post about anger and pain. OK, so when I feel the anger rising, I stop and recognise the pain and feel it. The anger goes - that's something, I'm learning to control it. Maybe practice will make perfect by the the time the situation arises?<p>He was a bit foggy again this morning. I suspect he spoke to her again last night. <p>The moving out thing, it will be hard and easier at the same time.<p>WAT, when I spoke to him on Saturday I mentioned something about him falling in love with me many years ago. He thought I had said that he was in love with this girl. He says (fairly convincingly) that he's not in love with her. I struggle with this. If he's not in love, or infatuated with her, then why is he risking our marriage. (I feel a she's not the problem, she just a symptom coming on - is this right?)<p>They talk about the fog with WS, but being a BS can be so confusing if you listen to all their crap!<p>Liz

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Seahorse:
<strong> He says (fairly convincingly) that he's not in love with her. I struggle with this. If he's not in love, or infatuated with her, then why is he risking our marriage. (I feel a she's not the problem, she just a symptom coming on - is this right?)<p>They talk about the fog with WS, but being a BS can be so confusing if you listen to all their crap!
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>There you go again, thinking like a rational person! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Re-read Rule #1. Remember?<p>You're right about her being a symptom. She's the fever of the virus. Bad part is that he has to treat the fever first - getting rid of her - before you both can fight the real disease.<p>I found it helpful to "listen to all their crap." Once you understand it for what it is, it's almost reassuring in a sadistic way, because it shows how much control the Mothership still has. You HAVE to listen to detect when they start making sense - it's then that you know that the fog may be lifting.<p>WAT

WAT, I have been to lawyer this morning. Oh dear how awful. She pushed for me to get rid of him, etc. After a while she could see it wasn't my thing. This is what she wants me to do.<p>Ask him re the financial situation - get specifics of what he intends to do esp re trip. I feel this is not an LB, because I have the right to know this info.<p>The answer to the question should be how I decide eg if he won't tell me anything, she says becareful and protect myself - I ask her to send him a letter to split finances.<p>If he is specific then ? <p>she is worried that with the new job and the trip he may tried to hide money, or send it elsewhere.<p>This has left me fairly deflated. I hope he does the right thing. i really don't want to go down this track. <p>Please, I really need prayers now. I hope god is listening.<p>As far as the rational thinking goes - that's my science degree I afraid, even now and then i have to try and turn it off.<p>Liz

Liz - I'm not an attorney, much less an Aussie one, but I'll bet you can remove half of all your cash in joint accounts and open your own accounts in your name only. The problem will be that you have to tell him what you're doing so he knows how much money he has to spend on his adventure. Also, if he overdraws a checking account, I bet you'll be equally liable for it - same goes for credit card charges if they're jointly held accounts.<p>Remember that your lawyer IS NOT a marriage counselor. OF COURSE she wants you to get rid of him. She likely doesn't know or believe that recovery from infidelity is frequent and there's nothing in it for her if you don't go through a divorce.<p>Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, and lawyers are from Uranus. Sorry, I couldn't resist. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>WAT

LOL. Actually, she wasn't as bad as all that, she was pushing for financial separation and then work it out. I was prepared for the hard nose type that wants to hang em up by the you know what.<p>H has gone away till tomorrow night, so I can't talk to him till at least Thursday, which is good as it gives me time to think. I agree, I need to get a straight answer on what he is spending on his trip and make some agreement re the moving out of home bit.<p>The account thing I can do, while we are together we are responsible for our own debts and assets, but once we start a separation that's when it changes (ie I will have to pay for him to go visit her [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] I've set up my own account, maybe I put more money into that and let him know. <p>WAT, I feel like I want to tell him that although I support him going by himself on holidays, think through things etc, that I'm not ok with his choice of destination. Is this an LB? To be honest I don't know. <p>On the weekend I asked him if when he goes is he still married and do all the ethics apply. I know I know, I cringe now when I think about it. But then I helped buy the luggage etc etc, I haven't said anything since. Its stressing me.<p>Maybe I should just shut up now and not say anything to him? Help!<p>He was home again last night. We are being civil, etc, even having conversations. He even asked me to pick him up from the airport tomorrow night-I didn't think he would. I could read a whole lot into this - good and bad, but I'm trying not too.<p>Saw the psych last night. He believes H is quite depressed (based on what I've told him), but seems to think I'm coping OK, its usually the other way round, but I guess now I HAVE to cope. <p>I hope H gives up this idea that his friends are all he needs, he needs professional help.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Seahorse:
<strong>I feel like I want to tell him that although I support him going by himself on holidays, think through things etc, that I'm not ok with his choice of destination. Is this an LB? To be honest I don't know.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Not necessarily an LB - as long as you deliver it without accusing. I encourage you to tell him how you feel - in a calm, controlled manner if you can. If you can't do it calmly, don't tell him, or write it down and give him something to read while he's gone.<p>There's an idea!<p>Write him a Plan A letter. I'll dig up mine and send it to you. Fix it up for your situation and send him packing with it. You can lay out your position and he'll have it for reference when he's away.<p>Back on the LBs - rmember, he determines what is and isn't an LB. You and I can determine what SHOULDN'T be an LB, but remember who we're dealing with - an alien abductee. Hard to predict what he'll think about something.<p>Dave

Dave, thank you for the letter, I will definitely rework it for our situation. Can I ask you to look over it when I'm done? I'll send by email. I will slip it in the bag so that he finds it when he's unpacking over there -better late than never?<p>This LB thing is hard. I LB'd him last week asking if I can open a bottle of port! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Sometimes I think no matter what you do, it just dosen't matter, especially when they are in this state.<p>I was surprised this morning by a thought I had. I thought this man has put me through so much. I've lost friends over less than this. Last week I didn't think there was any love left, but I still have something there for him, I realised that this morning. How can this be after all this? It would be so much easier to cut him off completely, but I can't. He's my friend, underneath it, that's what its all about. Very confusing.

WAT, sent the letter, really not sure about it. I feel like I'm a traitor - seeing lawyers, opening mail and hiding it. <p>H is slipping up, leaving things where i find them - such as garbage bins [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] Maybe all this is wearing him down, or maybe he just dosen't give a damn because he might leave me anyway. <p>Why do I have to care about this. If I was a heartless ***** I could just walk away. I really must get out this week, I can see i need to do that.<p>H comes home tomorrow, will do all I can to look good, feel good, be good.

Dear Seahorse,
I've been reading your thread, so sorry for what you are going through. Having been there myself, I know how bad it hurts.
You are coping amazingly, you are really strong, doing a great Plan A.
I don't think that Plan A means being a doormat. I think that exploring a financial separation is wise. The key is to discuss these issues with respect.
I think that it is good to stand up for yourself in a respectful way. For example, when you told him you wouldn't lie for him. You worried that you may have been risking the relationship, but actually you set boundaries for him. He is like an out of control child right now.
After all there are consequences for actions, like it or not. When my H wanted to move out and spend the summer exploring his feelings for me and OW, I made it clear that it was his choice to do so. I also made it clear that when he moved out, we would set up a legal separation with visitation with our 3 children. I even sat down with him to write up a few samples. It was a dash of cold water in his face, I think he imagined coming and going as he pleased, popping in to see the kids when he felt like it. In the end, he never moved out.
Your Plan A is good, because when your H takes his trip, he will have those memories of you standing strong and loving. His trip may not be the dream that he thinks it will be, and if he sees OW there, the reality may not stand up to the fantasy.
Just wishing for strength for you... I know what you're going through is so hard.

Hi all, WAT, thanks for looking over the letter. I just found out that I don't have time to post it. I rang him this morning in Perth (he's on business) he told me he flies out Friday after work, my heart sank. I said I didn't know. (Its Wednesday morning here). So he's gone from 22/3 till 8/4. <p>I asked if I could see him off at the airport - he said I was welcome to come, that all the lads would be there. I said I don't care about the lads (and how rowdy they will get) but I really want to say goodbye to him. He said that was fine.<p>I asked him about the finances, he was honest, he told me about the $8,000 limit and said it was for emergencies - I'll still be wary. He told me how much he was spending on the trip and I made it clear that what he was spending on his is what I will spend on mine - its only fair (sounds a bit childish I guess, but this whole situation is just ridiculous so who's to say anything about me).He even said he was going to buy me a gift-I'd rather have him actually (I didn't say that to him).<p>I basically told him what I needed to say that I am glad he is going on holidays and that I understand he needs to go by himself. I said that I wish I was going with him that I would love to do those things too, and that he has chosen the destination, but I wish he wasn't going there. He quickly turned it back to me - I'm going on my trip blah blah blah, but I think he got the message. Even said maybe we can go back together one day...how can he tease me like this? This is so painful for me. I can hardly bear it. He talks about our future, but has said he dosen't want it.<p>We both agreed that the weekend was good, that the talk we had was good. I asked him if we could keep the communication lines open that it was important. He didn't agree or disagree.<p>espoir I hope your right, I hope the trip is not all he hopes. I want him to be safe, I would like him to have fun, but at the same time I want it to be a total disaster (thats the taker I guess). I pray so hard that god will help me through this. I pray he will bring him back to me, but know this is futile prayers.<p>I can see the next three weeks are going to be like Chinese water torture - slow and painful. I've really got to plan these weeks well, got to keep more occupied now than ever. Just feel the pain, let it go. Keep praying. I have never learnt a lesson so hard in all my life. I hope I never have to go through this again.

Picked H up from Airport after business trip very tired, but he has been nice to me for a few days now. He was great this morning too.<p>Still unsure whether to give letter - scared it will be too much. <p>Tonight is our last night alone together, maybe forever I don't know, its all so uncertain. I'm calmer today, maybe I'm starting to accept and let go, maybe. I've got to be careful not to be too clingy tonight, don't want to put him off, got to remember to back off, etc.<p>Tomorrow I see him off at the airport. At least he agreed I can do that, I'd be in a real state otherwise. This morning he changed the time though, last night he said 7.30pm, this morning he said 8.30pm-I'll die if he tells me not to come at all. I'm not going to think about it. I'm going to stay happy. This is my last 36hours of Plan A while he's at home, after that its from a distance. Forgiver - help!<p>I gave him a big hug in bed this morning, he seemed to like it. I think this is all good signs the fog has cleared. I don't know for how long. I guess you take the good when it comes, because it sure does give you a lift.<p>I've taken to retail therapy by the way. When I feel down I go and buy myself clothes or lipstick or shoes. It helps a bit, and I need some clothes that fit and I intend to stay at this weight because I like myself this way!

Just venting again. <p>Got a call from H he accidently called my mobile -he didn't know I was on the phone. Heard some things and am reading a real lot into it, about girls and money, he paid about $100 bucks for something, I don't know what. Trying to calm down right now. <p>He just called me back, asked me what I heard, told him I heard enough, was very secretive, but probably sounded funny. Told him some of it, not relted to him. **** I don't want this to happen now! I don't want it all my hard work to go downhill now. Don't want to LB, need to control reactions better, keep working hard. Why does this stuff happen, will someone tell me that? God keeps testing, at times I'm failing, this is one of those times. Downhill again, down hill, always bloody downhill.<p>I need to breathe and refocus. I wish I was someone else right now, someone who was good at this.<p>Then again, maybe I'm puttting too much emphasis on every exchange. That could be because I'm so frightened that he will go away. But why should I be really. He was the one who made the choice to cheat. He hurt me more than anyone else every had, he should be coming to me!<p>OK, OK, I'm coming back on track. I shut up NOW about the phone call, if asked, my lips are sealed. Back on plan A, if he goes and takes up life with his OW, then so be it. The next man in my life will benefit from all the reading about EN's I'm doing, the next man will have a stunner, the next man will be sexually satisfied. The next man will have my respect and love, he will have a woman who is assertive and knows how to look after a man. And H will miss out on all that, and it will be his loss. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ March 20, 2002: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Seahorse:
<strong>
Then again, maybe I'm puttting too much emphasis on every exchange. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>I think we all do this until we accept that this is a long term project. Sea, try to remember to steer WAY down the road.<p>Maybe I'm too late, but I recommend you give him your Plan A letter before he leaves. It doesn't say anything that you haven't already inferred.<p>WAT

I sent it by email this morning. I'm in a mess.

Hang in there Seahorse!!<p> You know you will go up and down. Hang on to the good while you can but like I always say focus on you. You were good not to give him all the details about what you know. It is good to hold back right now. Remember you really don't know what he is thinking or feeling and you can't believe everything he says. If he knows everything you know you have no advantage. <p> I know it is hard but let him go and live for you. The statistics speak for themselves and they keep me going. Let the A die naturally. You don't want to hang on to him and make him stay. You want him to come back and be with you because that is what HE wants 200%.<p> He needs time to realize what he is giving up. And also he needs to see how strong you are and that you are fine without him. Don't be his puppet. If he knows he can have you back at any time, he may string you on longer.<p> For my plan A from a distance I send him cards. All kinds, funny ones, love, miss you, difficult relationship ones, happy bar mitzfa (we're not Jewish)joke ones, etc. i don't always write alot. Just I love you and miss you. I do not mention A at all. I send hime packages with stuff inside (I"Ve told about them on my other posts). On the boxes I write all over them. <p> Last night I spoke with my SIL she said my H said the OW goes nuts over all my cards (sometimes I send 15 at a time). She is furious and rips them up!! Which hurt me (not too much), but pissed off my H. He has always kept all my cards to hime. He still has the ones i sent when i was 17! Everytime I speak to him on the phone I tell him all the great things i am doing, how happy i am and I'm really positive. He usually brings up the A in a non direct way. All I say is that I am here for him if he wants to work it out. I won't throw it in his face. When he is ready to talk i will listen and hold my tongue. I always make myself a safe place to come back to. But I won't be a doormat. I don't make it sound like I am pineing for him. I'm moving on full throttle.<p> It seems to be working from what he tells my MIL BUT HE STILL WON"T CALL ME!!! So do I believe him? Yes but with reservation. He told his mom he wants to come home asap. Everyone there is getting a real kick about how nuts OW has become and my H is scared. He wants to stay home a semester to get away from it all and start again in Sept with me there with him. <p> It was very hard for me to back off but I trusted the advice of all here at MB. Especially redhat- where is he? I hope he is ok. Plan A is living for yourself. And I totally agree with you that if your H won't come to his senses- some other man will benefit from this awful experience we have gone through. I feel the same way if my H is too f***ed up when he comes home. <p> Seahorse, you and I are both knock- outs at this point. Don't forget that. Just keep getting better and better everyday. It will all be worth it some day. They say God can not give us what we can not handle. And if it doesn't kill us it makes us stronger. How true, how true. There is also the old saying what comes around goes around- Karma. If our doofus H's choose to make the biggest mistake of their lives they will be miserable for the rest of their lives. The best revenge is to live better than them and THRIVE..!
Hang in there Seahorse! Sorry so long!
Forgiver

Thanks Forgiver, I really need these words of encouragement right now. I guess that's normal, sometimes you need a little help to prop you up so you can walk again on your own. <p>I think I have done all I can now. I had forgotton about the phone call, he brought it up, I made it out that what I heard was all about his friend and his little adventures. So I got out of that one! Didn't say too much, my mouth seems to get me into trouble.<p>I will see him off tonight - 7 hours to go. Once he goes it will be easier to get back on Plan A-I'm very emotion now, and it hasn't helped that its that time of the month. I can't send him cards - only contact will be by phone and SMS. I am going to be Venusian (I can't find that post again and its driving me crazy). Do the 180thing and get him thinking. Will keep contact minimal -let him think about it.<p>I feel bad because part of me wants the trip to be a total disaster (I don't want him hurt or anything, just unhappy), at the same time I hope he enjoys it - wierd huh?<p>Urgghhhhh! This whole thing, I hate it. When this thing is over, either way, I'm going to buy myself a ring or similar. That will be a reminder to me what happens when you let a problem go and don't deal with it.<p>I'm going to book to go horseriding this Sunday. That will cheer me up a bit.