Dear Seahorse, <p>My condolences to you and your father. Losing a loved one is so hard. Know that your mum loved you and is no longer suffering. Those of us left living are feeling the pain. <p>I will remember you and your family tonight in my prayers. <p>Hugz,
L.

Thank you Orchid, I appreciate everyone's thoughts and prayers.<p>Well, we buried mum today. <p>Its been a tough day. I said a short speech in church and helped everyone out and seemed to be going fine. My H (who I really appreciated being there with his parents) was in a worse state than me, I was consoling him.<p>Until they lowered the coffin into the grave at the cemetary, then I lost it. I cried so hard I nearly fell over. I had an overwhelming urge to tell them to bring it back up. I had to tell myself not to say anything, I think the only reason I didn't was because I was crying so much. I just couldn't handle the coffin going into the ground. I still can't when I see it in my mind, I'm sure I will have nightmares about this. Its not right, its night now and she's there alone in the cold. I can't bare this thought. It just kills me. Is this normal? I thought I'd nearly finished grieving, but it seems that its just begun. <p>When I got home I had a shower, and again, I cried. They felt like the same tears I've cried for H. I'm grieving for two people, both whom I loved.<p>My dad kept apologizing because he broke down in the church. He was so brave. My sister broke down outside the church, my niece broke down at the cemetery like me. My brother seemed to be ok, but I know he was hurting. We had a piper (we're Scottish) in the church, it didn't help, everyone broke down when they heard the pipes.<p>I'm really feeling all this today guys. I feel so fragile. I want H back.. I want him to tell me he loves me and hold me, but instead I'm going to bed alone. I hold my doggy instead (he sat at the bathroom door moaning while I was crying in the shower, god love him). I know all this will pass, but it just helps to talk about it right now. I want to be alone, but I want people around too. I want to go to bed and I want to go and do things. I want to be strong and fall apart all at the same time. In other words, I'm confused and scared and hurting and grieving and wanting. <p>I feel like ringing dad and telling him how I feel, but I know he will be upset and worry. I probably shouldn't be here alone, but I'm all I've got in the end.<p>My FIL told me today that H told him that there'd be 'some chance' of reconciliation if I moved closer to the city. He wants me to sell the house. I thought 'bugger that'. Yes, I want to move, but I need to make sure dad's ok, then I'm ok. I've started going through stuff here to see what I can get rid of. If I move closer to the city it will mean a smaller place.<p>But the thing is, if I keep trying to 'fit' the criteria H gives me, he keep finding a new thing I have to do for him. I will move from this house when I'm good and ready and not a moment before. I'm living for me now, I owe H nothing and he owes me a great deal. I'm thinking (of late anyway) that there's a few things HE needs to do if I'm to reconcile with him. <p>I always thought my H was the bees knees. When I look at him, he still is the H I fell in love with, but as soon as he opens his mouth, yuck. Will this ever change?<p>Anyway thanks for listening.

My FIL told me today that H told him that there'd be 'some chance' of reconciliation if I moved closer to the city. He wants me to sell the house. I thought 'bugger that'. Yes, I want to move, but I need to make sure dad's ok, then I'm ok. I've started going through stuff here to see what I can get rid of. If I move closer to the city it will mean a smaller place. <p>Looks like you are considering it - your feelings give you away. You still love him. <p>
But the thing is, if I keep trying to 'fit' the criteria H gives me, he keep finding a new thing I have to do for him. I will move from this house when I'm good and ready and not a moment before. I'm living for me now, I owe H nothing and he owes me a great deal. I'm thinking (of late anyway) that there's a few things HE needs to do if I'm to reconcile with him. <p>My feeling is, you need to negotiate before you get back together. <p>You need to know that he is willing to work on the marriage. <p>He needs to understand that you are willing to do it, but only under certain conditions. ( I am assuming that you feel that way.) <p>I think Counseling should be one of them. You probably know the rest of them (conditions) better than any of us. If it is going to work, there are boundaries he cannot cross again. <p>However, remember that he does not really know the real "new you." He thinks of you as you were before, even though he has seen hints of what you are now. If there were needs you were not meeting before, or if you had a problem with LB's, he may still be thinking of those things.<p> He has a long way to come back. <p>Sure it is mostly his fault, but he needs help getting back and if you still want him, you will have to give him that help. <p>So, recapping it, It seems you still love him and want him back. He seems to be expressing that he may want to come back. You both need to understand what it will take to make it work again. What you are willing to do, and what he is willing to do. What you need, and what he needs. <p>But remember you understand this stuff much better than he does, and he will need a lot of help. Are you willing to do what it takes to help him come back?

By the way, I feel for you with having trouble with your H and loosing your Mum. I still have both my parents and don't know how you feel. But I care, and hope you feel better soon. You seem so strong. Keep it up.

Its true SS, I love him very much, but there are parts of his 'new' personality that I really hate. I hate that he looks down on where I live (and he lived for most of his life). I have that he goes round telling people he is 'free' now. I hate that he can only talk about work and puts it before me. I hate that he put someone else before me or probably had sex with her. <p>I also have a sneaking suspicion that he has been talking to friends who encouraged him to leave me. But they never came to find out my side of the story. For example, sex was lacking in our relationship, but it was boring - he would never fulfil my fantasies, so why would I bother?<p>its been hard to concentrate on this stuff, especially today. I feel awful that we put mum in that box and put her in the ground and she's there alone and cold. I hate it.<p>Thankfully, my sister rang me earlier and we went and had coffee. Something good has come out of mum's death, I haven't seen my sister in probably a year. It was great and hopefully we'll keep in touch more. I think when someone close dies, you sudden realise how precious the people you have left are.<p>SS I am being patient with H, I have no choice, but to be honest, I can't see how we'll get back together. We're growing apart even more now. It hurts very much. I keep plan Aing, because I know that eventually there will be no love left and it will be easier to move on. I guess in a way I've given up on him, but there is a part that still holds on.<p>I know I'll survive this because I have so far, but what of the future. I thought my H was my future. My own feelings confuse me.

I'm so heavy with grief. This has hit me far harder than I thought it would. All the stuff with H has come up again too. One minute I'm grieving for mum, then I'm grieving for H. It hurts so bad. <p>My sister contacted me on Saturday and we had coffee, yesterday I went to dad, my brother and his family and my aunt was there. I think they all sensed I was not coping, so they helped me heaps.<p>Its mothers day on Sunday (in Australia anyway), my counsellor suggested I be with family or do something, so I'm going to try to organise something.<p>My counsellor also suggested that I need a plan for reconciliation with H, as I seem to be in limbo. I think its probably a good idea and I will think about it over the next few weeks. Did others do this?<p>I've been cleaning out stuff from my house. Getting rid of stuff I don't need, there's a bit of it. I can't move right now, I need stability for a little while, but I'm getting ready for it.<p>I wish I knew everything was going to be ok with H, its worrying me a lot right now.

(((((SEAHORSE)))))<p> I am sorry I have been away for so long and I am so sorry about your Mum! It reminds me of the old book Why Bad Things Happen To Good People. You have taken on so much over the past few months. Your spirit is incredible. Everything you are feeling is normal. It is important to LET yourself feel. I tend to surpress feelings- this is not good. You have to go through the process of grieving for both your H and your Mum. Your Mum's passing brings closure to your restless soul and you know in time you will heal- she did nothing to hurt you. It was natural. She only loved you her whole life. <p> Meanwhile our selfish, cowardly &$&$)#@! #&&#%)#&%)! #&%)#(&% #(%_)@*$&)@*$)@)$&) @&$)(@$) !!!!! husbands are hurting us on purpose!! This is so hard! I wish you could come and live with me in the States! There's always room for you here! We would make quite a team! Thelma and Louise!<p> My H scared of my sex drive too! i've been pretty shocking lately. We went to an art gallery last night where a friend of ours had a show. Some of our friends from the city came out (they have no idea my H is a cheating &*)(*)*$#!) They were pretty entertained by my new randy side in public places. they got quite a kick and suggested I come visit them in the city, there are several clubs they would like me to go to with them so I can join them dancing on the bar. Remember Coyote Ugly? <p> My H is taken aback since I used to be pretty conservative in public. Not that I'm a pig- just VERY confident and flirtatious. And my humor has been right on!! Made many people laugh with my jokes. I was quite popular. It was a nice ego boost. But I can tell my H is confused- I could have scared him. Oh well!
Take care! I will pray for you and your Mum tonight- I usually do anyway!
Forgiver

Seahorse,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Taken from Forgiver's thread ...<strong>BTW, my H and I had sex (notice I didn't say 'made love') last weekend. We went for a second time but it just wasn't happening for him. This is unusual as he prides himself on 'being ready'. I wonder if its a trait in WS? Its scared me at first because I thought it was me - he's not turned on by me, blah, blah, blah, but I try not to worry about it now. Don't let him lay his guilt onto you.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Probably you drained H up on the first one [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] ... Good thing that you didn't take it personally.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I'm so heavy with grief. This has hit me far harder than I thought it would. All the stuff with H has come up again too. One minute I'm grieving for mum, then I'm grieving for H. It hurts so bad. My sister ...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Deal with one pain at the time ... take their supports and cherish them, they are shoulders to cry on. How is your mother's day ? ... it is hard specially w/o your mum. My MIL (she passed away long time ago), her birthday is on next weekend, on mother's day (US), my mom lived closer to you (Eastern Java) than to me ..., the only mom, that is close, the mother of my 2 D, rejects every attempt of my plan A. I am fighting w/ very skillfull OM and 5.5 years of A.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>My counsellor also suggested that I need a plan for reconciliation with H, as I seem to be in limbo. I think its probably a good idea and I will think about it over the next few weeks. Did others do this?</strong><hr></blockquote> You need to be in plan A or plan B ... your part is make it safe for H to come back however it is H part to come back. Stale M is not a reason to rush anything but to let A dies naturally. You have to see what is acceptable amend to you, make the list. Don't give the list to your H nor your MC until H is repent (fog lifted up) and ready to work on M.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I wish I knew everything was going to be ok with H, its worrying me a lot right now.</strong><hr></blockquote> Take it one day at a time ... heal from sudden loss of your mum. You need to be a skillfull giver. You deal with H when you are ready. Let him go for now. Just remember that Lord is our refuge and as a Father, HE knows what is best for us, HIS children. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] -RH-

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I'm so heavy with grief. This has hit me far harder than I thought it would. All the stuff with H has come up again too. One minute I'm grieving for mum, then I'm grieving for H. It hurts so bad. <hr></blockquote><p>Perhaps you should take a few weeks off. Not worry about H. He should be helping you right now and it may with draw units from your bank to think of him now when you need his help the most and are not getting it. Try to give you thoughts to something more neutral, less damaging.
I think Redhat is right, just deal with the loss of your Mum now. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
My counselor also suggested that I need a plan for reconciliation with H, as I seem to be in limbo. I think its probably a good idea and I will think about it over the next few weeks. Did others do this? <hr></blockquote><p>That's what a good councilor or coach is for. Put a plan on paper, get the thoughts out of your head so you can think of other things, not H all the time. For me, once I write it all down, much of the doubt and confusion leaves me. I let the paper remember and worry for me. <p>Many of us are praying for you and Forgiver ( and your H's ) There are many more that read that don't post that are thinking and praying for you. Remember that we all care about each other. We hope for the best for you. <p>One last thing. It is pretty evident that you have outgrown your husband. You have improved yourself, studied, and changed. He has not. It is natural that you should wonder if you should just go on - let him go.<p> These are the times I pray. HE knows these things, I do not. I hope it ( prayer) works for you. My wife has said she prayed many times to know if she should stay with me, and always got the answer to stay. ( she wondered why though.) Finally I started to catch up with her. She says now she understands why, and she is happy she did not leave. I hope you find your answers. Again we all care about you, you are not alone - even if you can't see us.

Hi Forgiver, Redhat and Still seeking. Thanks all of you. I thank everyone for their support. This has been a hard time. I've never lost someone close, but to loose two at once has been big. But I'm determined to get through this, I'm my mother's daughter and I'm going to take what I learned from her (about being determined and stubborn) and ask her to guide me (she's looking after me now I know that).<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Meanwhile our selfish, cowardly &$&$)#@! #&&#%)#&%)! #&%)#(&% #(%_)@*$&)@*$)@)$&) @&$)(@$) !!!!! husbands are hurting us on purpose!! This is so hard! I wish you could come and live with me in the States! There's always room for you here! We would make quite a team! Thelma and Louise! <hr></blockquote><p>I've often wondered how I will get over the resentment of this deliberate act of hurt, but I guess its once step at a time. Hey, if we're going to do the Thelma and Louise thing, could we have parachutes please?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> They were pretty entertained by my new randy side in public places. they got quite a kick and suggested I come visit them in the city, there are several clubs they would like me to go to with them so I can join them dancing on the bar. Remember Coyote Ugly <hr></blockquote><p>I start my bellydance class tonight (I need these fun distractions right now) maybe I can come and join you on the bar? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I'm doing much better today as you've probably notice, so I'm enjoying the relief from the grief while I have it. Yesterday was a 'shocker'. <p>Thanks all, I will keep praying (to all the gods -I'm not religious but respect all religions), for all of us and know that you are thinking and praying for me too. A burden shared is a burden halved or something like that...<p>RH - I guess I'm trying to push things, aren't I? I'll take yours and SS' advice and make the list, but keep plan Aing and keep the list to myself. I've been feeling that 'if only' H would come back I'd feel better and some of the hurt would go away. I guess that is pain and insecurity and fear. I haven't voiced any of this to him, in fact when he rang I made sure he was ok - he was a mess at the funeral - and my counsellor pointed out that he was probably grieving for my mum and our relationship. I hadn't thought of that, but it MAY explain why he was in such a mess. Thanks guys I need you to put me back on track every now and then!<p>SH

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Seahorse:
<strong>I've often wondered how I will get over the resentment of this deliberate act of hurt</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hi Liz - will you consider this:<p>I don't believe that WSs do their thing to deliberately hurt their spouses. In fact, it appears that most of them have no clue of the pain they've inflicted until they beam back down. Further, in the throes of their adventure, "recovered" WSs have stated that they felt that their BSs deliberately were hurting THEM.<p>Write all this off as part of the disease. Just try, OK?<p>Dave

Actually that's interesting WAT, because when this first happened, WS sent me an email saying 'I would never intentionally hurt you' which I thought was ironic. I'll try to convince myself its the Aliens.<p>He's still in fog. He rang re a family get together (his family) and asked if I was going. (He avoided asking me, note that). I said I'd like to catch up but that I didn't want to intrude. I asked him if he could tell me if he really wanted me there or not? Could he tell me the truth?<p>His reply was 'I can't make decisions like that right now' - he's still foggy. It's amazing. I'm the one suffering the crisis and he's unable to make a simple decision. He dosen't want to give an inch. I'm going to go for an hour, I have another party to attend that evening anyway.<p>Oh well, keep living for me. Can't rely on H yet. <p>I don't think he trusts me yet WAT, I know he thinks I'm trying to manipulate him, so I'll still need to keep plan Aing my [censored] off. He's driving me nuts but I try to stay focussed. <p>I started salsa classes last night-not a great idea as it really reminded me I'm partnerless. I felt yuck afterwards. If this keeps up, I'll drop the class, I don't need to feel this way. I've still got my bellydancing and yoga and will schedule a dive soon.<p>Average day today. Missing mum, missing H. HAve a day off tomorrow (Friday) to regroup. Think I'll do something nice for myself.

Seahorse,
Your posts are starting to "feel" different to me. Your attitude seems to be shifting. <p>Is your love bank draining or is it just me ? Is it time for plan B ? <p>Don't let it go to far. You need to do it while you still have some feelings left. <p>You have been really strong. You think about what you do. What a great plan A. Great improvements in your life, many changes for the better. You have weathered the passing of your mum with grace and style. You must hurt but you do what you have to do anyway. What a gal.
( what a daft husband [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] ) Sorry, I know he's in the fog. <p>Keep doing those things and don't give up, but be careful and don't go too long in plan A. <p>SS)<p>[ May 09, 2002: Message edited by: still seeking ]</p>

Hi SS, I'm trying to be patient with H, I try to focus on what the task at hand is. Mum's death made me relieve the grief for my H, I don't know whether that is a setback or a step forward. I'd like to think its all a part of the process.<p>Plan B is a big step, I don't know I've demonstrated enough to H that I'm willing to change. He dosen't trust me, he's waiting for me to crack, but I'm not going to because I know all this is out of my control. Going to plan B is in my control and I don't want to make any life changing decisions while I'm still grieving, and I don't think I'm quite ready. When I see my H, I know I love him, its when he opens his mouth that the problem!<p>I'm preparing though. I have my letter from my lawyer ready, I'm sorting through stuff at home for when I move, I'm getting a second casual job to help me through the initial financial hardship it will all bring. I want to make sure dad is ok before I bring another crisis on myself. (I love this house and even though the location dosen't suit me anymore, it would be another loss- I would grieve for this house).<p>I just read Formerhopelessone's post on forgivers thread, this gave me a some hope. If I thought the real H would walk through my door tomorrow (when he is supposedly coming to see me, but we'll see)I would welcome him with open arms, but right now I'm stuck with the alien once a week.<p>It would be so easy to walk away right now, much easier, but I don't think I should do this to myself right now, I've only plan A'd for 3 months, I'm giving H six, but noted, I will keep monitoring my attitude towards him.<p>[ May 10, 2002: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</p>

Seahorse,<p>Thought I would drop by your thread and post something hopeful, I hope. The alien is scary -- as all aliens would be to us humans. In alien state my H was completely weird, all his values changed, he was not interested in any of the goals we had been discussing our whole M, he became uninterested in material things (a total change since my H could be the poster child for materialize in the US -- he believes whoever dies with the most toys wins). I was totally freaked out!!!!!!!! I noticed these things before I discovered the A, but did not know the cause until after I found out about the A. It is really hard to live with the alien -- this is not the person you fell in love with. My H was rude and withdrawn from me. He did not do anything for me. He did not care if he hurt my feelings -- in fact, I believe he deliberately was mean to me. He was not proud of my accomplishments -- during this time, I was accepted to law school (on scholarship) and started my studies. This was something I had been working on for about 6 months -- studying for LSATs, etc. He wasn't enthusiasic or support of this effort.<p>All of these things were completely opposite of how my H really is. The reasons I fell in love with him are because he is kind, generous, loving, has the biggest heart in the world, tolerant, open to new ideas, thoughtful, insightful, caring of me and our dogs, always wants to make me happy, looks out for me, incredibly smart in opposite ways from me, has a zest for life, funny, silly, adorable and has the cutest bu** in the world!!!!!!!!! When he turned into the alien the only thing he still had left was the bu**. I couldn't believe the change.<p>Well, now the real H is back. I am thrilled. Actually, the real H is back only better. H has been upgraded. He is more insightful and caring than ever. I really believe and feel he has a better understanding of his own feelings and now realizes what we almost lost. He says he is sorry for all the hurt he has caused and thanks me for being strong enough to build a bridge for us to recover. <p>Hang in there. You can only make little baby steps when the alien is in control. I believe the little baby steps are recognized by the WH, but they just do not want to let go of the fog. It will slowly dissapate and then finally one big wind blows in and clears the final remnants away. Patience is the hardest cross to bear during this difficult time, but is your greatest weapon. It seems weird that our WHs don't trust us after they have betrayed us, but that is how they feel. Keep thinking you have to earn his trust -- just like he will eventually have to earn your when H decides he wants the M and wants to recover. You must demonstrate to him that you have changed, will continue to change and you do not want the old marriage. I shared some of the concepts from MB with my H right after D-day #3. I think that helped him believe that I wasn't just talking about changes and just saying that to trick him into coming back so things could go back to the old ways. It also helped my H to realize that I truly understood the A and was not going to wait until he opened his heart to me again and then make him suffer for having the A. Remember that WHs are scared. They like to run and not face reality. <p>I also want to say that when your H decides he wants to recover your M, things will not be magical immediately. This was hard for both me and my H. I probably should have posted this to Forgiver because it is applicable to her situation, but the first 2 week after my H was home were the hardest of all. It was totally weird. Our moods were never in sync. It was like we forgot how to communicate. We were both edgy an didn't know what to say. The best times we had were when we went out and did some activity -- dinner, played games, etc. After the first few days, I wasn't sure I wanted to recover the M -- kind of funny after all the work I had done to get to that point. Just keep this in mind when you get to that point. Come here and vent even more. Patience, tolerance and communication will get you through this period.<p>Hang in there. I have been following you -- your thread was one of the first ones I read when I first came here. It really helped me. I don't always get a chance to post but I try to check in and see how things are going.<p>You have already demonstrated how strong you are. You will survive not matter what the outcome. The outcome is really worth all the effort. Anything really worthwhile takes effort. By the way, my H now comes here and posts -- he is very inspirational -- he posts under LoveHerMadly.<p>FHO

Hi Seahorse -- I have been following your posts and have prayed for you through this and the loss of your mum. <p>I just wanted to let you know that something in your last post made me laugh out loud -- it really hit home. Something like, I know I love my H when I see him, but then he opens his mouth. Same thing here. <p>You are so strong and are an inspiration to me.

Hello seahorse,
I am the "reborn spouse" of FormerHopelessOne My wife and I are in recovery and things are going GREAT! Let me start by telling you that it wasn't easy. While I was having my A I felt like a different person. I isolated myself and lived in my own fantasy world. I shut my wife out. Funny thing is, I was looking for something she could give me. I didn't realize it, when I did, I was free of the fog. I took her hand and we walked out of this fog and back into our life together. Don't give up hope! Once your H's fog is lifted you have so much to love to look forward to. <p>Now let me tell you about what I as the WS went threw during the A. I hope this will help you to understand your H. I felt guilty for what I was doing (believe it or not). I was always trying to protect myself from the guilt. I would try to JUSTIFY it, give myself reasons to be having the A. <p>One way I did this was by being mean and hurtful to my S. The whole idea of doing this was to make my W be hurtful and unloving back, this would be a reason to do what I was already doing! Now here is another kicker, there would never be enough reasons to do what I was doing. Confused yet? I never said this was gonna be easy. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] It turned into this vicious circle. Mind you this wasn't something I planed out, I just did it because it was a type of self defense reaction (to protect me from the guilt). Something I learned somewhere along my path of life. Now, once I realized what I was doing, I was able to stop.<p>Don't help him find reason to do what he is doing, give him reason to NOT do it. Spend your energy not giving him reasons to do what he is doing. All I can say is plan a&b your [censored] off. This will help him to figure things out himself.<p>I know my W was ready to give up even after I was out of the fog but she held on. Maybe you are going threw the same thing. Just remember things will get better if you work at it. It's not easy, but nothing good ever is...

Hi FHO and LHM, Your story really gives me hope. I am so down at the moment I need this. Mum's death has put me back at square one. I'm not coping well at all and have been quite depressed for a few days now. <p>The WS point of view does help me somewhat. I can't help it, but I have to analyse, its just that its such peculiar behaviour and I don't know how to deal with it right now. I'm hoping that eventually I will pick up again (mood wise) and it won't matter so much. I was going so well in plan A and today have stuffed up. <p>I sort of realised that my H would keep finding excuses to leave me last week. He told his father that there would be 'some' chance of reconciliation if I moved house closer to the city. This seems to me a cop out. If I do this, which I'm not ready to, he will find another reason. I want him back because he loves me, not because I moved house or whatever. Is this sane, I don't know, maybe I expect too much.<p>This is the exchange we had today: H came home and mowed the lawn (thank god I didn't have to do it again)-so he was helpful-this is 'normality'.<p>He told me I have to put on weight and that he was very concerned that I looked anorexic - possibly normal. I'm ok by the way. I've been to the docs for a bood test and will get results soon (I have thyroid problems - it may have been put out of kilter by all the shocks I've had), I'm eating, but actually, it may explain the depression if it is out of whack. Then again, I've got every right to be depressed. Plus its mother's day tomorrow...<p>
Anyway back to H:
He was very chatty in the car on the way over to SIL's-son's first birthday. - all he talks about is work, which is boring, but I listen very hard and try not to say too much. I get the feeling he is not that happy with his flatmates, but I don't point that out.- ok, so this is all 'normal' for my h.<p>At the inlaws the personality changed. He sat on the lounge and watched TV, he criticised women, try to kick a ball at me, etc, etc. <p>I walk out and made a phone call actually to Ninatoo, to ask her to remind me why I was plan Aing, which helped. He came out looking for me.<p>After some time I got fed up with how he was treating me and told him so. He told me this has been really hard for him. He said there are a lot of feelings for me still, but I wonder if he's moved out so that they go away and its easier for him to leave me. He said that he was committed to this 6 month rental on the apartment. <p>Unfortunatly I did the 'needy' thing. I really hate when I do that, and I haven't done it for so long, now I'm back where I started. I'm putting my current state of mind down to grief. Mum's death has really knocked me for a six, I feel like I'm back a the start with H. I cry for mum and him - I told him that too.<p>Anyway, after a bit of the needy stuff I told him I can't do this for too much longer, that he's 'killing' me and that mum's death and him leaving has been too tough. <p>I did something else I'm not sure I should of. I told him about his friend telling me to leave him. This friend is the one he's flatting with (a guy). I told him about how he had hugged me and that it threw me in turmoil. He seemed shocked, but I'm nearly positive this friend has told my H to leave me although H denies it. <p>We went for a coffee and had a nice. He kept asking me where I was going, and rang me to make sure I was home - I avoided telling him where I was going or with whom and didn't tell him I was home, that I had pulled over in the car to take his call. He actually asked me if I was going to see someone from work or someone I met over the internet. I just laughed. He thinks I'm having an affair.<p>I see H and I definately love the real him, but yes I am loosing hope. I just want to wait a bit for plan B because I don't know if what I'm feeling is because of mum's death of whether its real. I don't want to bring another crisis on myself. Once I'm in plan B I can't go back. <p>But what if I keep LBing like this. What if I become the stupid needy person again. Yuck. I'd run too. What if today's actions have pushed him away again - undoubtedly it has he says he's scared of seeing me. <p>I mentioned OW too. I said I didn't know if he was still seeing this other girl - he had a look of guilt on his face, so it confirmed it. That makes me mad. Oh hell, I was going so well in plan A, then mum's death... I couldn't believe how hard it all hit me. I'm so angry with everyone and everything. <p>I can't take time off work right now either. I wish I could get away again. That helped so much before. Urghhh! I hate this.<p>I've given myself six months from the first d-day. So that means the 26th July is a tentative for plan B. <p>Thanks for your prayers unsureheart. I'm glad I made you laugh, we need that.<p>Actually i was thinking today that if anyone asked about H I would tell them he was on 'long service leave'. Just for a laugh.<p>Just reading my own post makes me realise how far backwards I've gone. I sure hope that nothing else goes wrong for me (I'm waiting for number three).

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Seahorse:
<strong><p>{{{{((((SEAHORSE))))}}}} ... I sense that you are back again on your feet, this is good !. You seem recover nicely from double whammy of grief. Are you ready to get back to working on M ?.<p>What is his reasonning for you to move back closer to the city ?. You have to see if it is an excuses or legitimate plan A's action.
[quote][qb]I want him back because he loves me, not because I moved house or whatever. Is this sane, I don't know, maybe I expect too much.<hr></blockquote></strong>
Nope you are not asking too much, we all are asking the same thing from our WS, 1000% commitment. However at this junction H is not there yet, be patience. Remember you are responsible for your H' love. If it is a legit reason, a chance to fill in EN's, see what are your net gain/net losses on LB$.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>This is the exchange we had today: H came home and mowed the lawn (thank god I didn't have to do it again)-so he was helpful-this is 'normality'.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Do you reward H ? [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] You need to train your H. You have to give him a credit to try to move to 'normality'. His concern about your health (eating) is a good sign, if it is a genuine one, it is a huge progree and you should stay away from plan B ... not there yet. It seems that H still fillin some EN of yours.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>He was very chatty in the car on the way over to SIL's-son's first birthday. - all he talks about is work, which is boring, but I listen very hard and try not to say too much. I get the feeling he is not that happy with his flatmates, but I don't point that out.- ok, so this is all 'normal' for my h.</strong><hr></blockquote> Great job !, just be there for him.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>At the inlaws the personality changed. He sat on the lounge and watched TV, he criticised women, try to kick a ball at me, etc, etc.</strong><hr></blockquote>Does your inlaw knows about his A ?. I forgot about it, could you refresh my memory ? Paxil took some of my brain cell away.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>After some time I got fed up with how he was treating me and told him so. He told me this has been really hard for him. He said there are a lot of feelings for me still, but I wonder if he's moved out so that they go away and its easier for him to leave me. He said that he was committed to this 6 month rental on the apartment.</strong><hr></blockquote>Good thing that you try to communicate with H about your feeling, but tone down on the anger part or don't bring it up when you are in anger. You need to talk R (heart-2-heart), but no LB.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Unfortunatly I did the 'needy' thing. I really hate when I do that, and I haven't done it for so long, now I'm back where I started. I'm putting my current state of mind down to grief. Mum's death has really knocked me for a six, I feel like I'm back a the start with H. I cry for mum and him - I told him that too.<p>Anyway, after a bit of the needy stuff I told him I can't do this for too much longer, that he's 'killing' me and that mum's death and him leaving has been too tough. <p>I did something else I'm not sure I should of. I told him about his friend telling me to leave him. This friend is the one he's flatting with (a guy). I told him about how he had hugged me and that it threw me in turmoil. He seemed shocked, but I'm nearly positive this friend has told my H to leave me although H denies it. <hr></blockquote></strong>
Remember no judgement ! ... there is nothing wrong to be needy, you married for love & care & support !. Yes, most of WS will be shock if they pay a bit attention on how much hurt that they have 'cause us. Good job ... lend your heart out, I know it is a risk that you took but H seems take it very well. Could you read the Venusian Lady's link under my signature and see if it will work for you ?.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I see H and I definately love the real him, but yes I am loosing hope. I just want to wait a bit for plan B because I don't know if what I'm feeling is because of mum's death of whether its real. I don't want to bring another crisis on myself. Once I'm in plan B I can't go back. </strong><hr></blockquote>
IMVHO, you are far away from plan B ... Don't loose hope, there are many positive thing !. H still show 'care', willing to give his shoulder to you, worrying of loosing you. Be patience, you could win this one.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>But what if I keep LBing like this. What if I become the stupid needy person again. Yuck. I'd run too. What if today's actions have pushed him away again - undoubtedly it has he says he's scared of seeing me. <hr></blockquote></strong>
Have you ever think that H is scared of himself too ?. He might be afraid that there are some 'feeling' comes out from the encounter w/ you [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . Next encounter just have fun with H ... slow down on R talk.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I mentioned OW too. I said I didn't know if he was still seeing this other girl - he had a look of guilt on his face, so it confirmed it. That makes me mad. Oh hell, I was going so well in plan A, then mum's death... I couldn't believe how hard it all hit me. I'm so angry with everyone and everything. <hr></blockquote></strong>
At this point you should let go, don't try to 'read' WS. Just rely on his actions or hard prove from snooping.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Just reading my own post makes me realise how far backwards I've gone. I sure hope that nothing else goes wrong for me (I'm waiting for number three).</strong><hr></blockquote>
You can't change the past nor the present but your future in in your hand. Do positive thing for you, go right back to plan A for you.<p>This is the first weekend of my WW's visitation of my 2 D, it really hit me (my 2 D will stay with her 'till Monday morning). However I don't let it get to me. I am going to replace a window in the kitchen, getting busy and believe it or not ... it is a plan A action that I have to do. Then I will see unfaithful and reread again language of love. I will need a tissue box [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] ....<p>Happy mommy day !. -RH-

Liz - we don't call this a roller coaster for nuthin'.<p>LBs, needy, too many questions - we've all been there. You can't react to every corrent in the river and neither will he. Here's the way to get past this: you can't change what's done, so use it to your advantage - next encounter, be the STRONG Seahorse we all know you to be. Show some contrast, do a 180, SHOCK HIM!<p>Got it?<p>Dave