Dear Seahorse and Forgiver,
just to let you know - I keep following your journeys while I deal with my own- you are an inspiration - and a great reminder - that there is life beyond D-days, WSs A's, Plan As and Bs.

It is really next to impossible to remember there is actual life in the universe other than own troubled R. At least it seems so to myself.

Thanks,
FBOW

Hi FBOW, please do not feel you are not alone. I am struggling very much with plan B right now. I am having trouble dealing with no contact and the fact that H has not contacted me (even though thats what I asked for), but still I know that to survive this I have to look for other places to find happiness - my H was my happiness before D-day - a big mistake, but this has been part of my lesson.

Thank you for your kind words.

Now the lesson continues and I'm trying to learn it well this time so I don't have to do it again.

******
Forgiver - if your friend heads down the coast to Coffs Harbour (New South Wales) these is sea kyaking and white water rafting <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

try this link for more info http://www.visitcoffsharbour.com/liquidassets/index.html - Coffs is about 6 hours drive north of Sydney.

BTW I didn't notice you said he was on a rance horseriding - fantastic, those guys out there are 'true blue'. Wow, would love to do that one day - sorry, WILL do that one day.

This link has stuff about byron bay - http://www.byron-bay.com/byronbay/index.html
Actually its a great place to dive as its Australia's most easterly point and also a place where the warm and cooler waters meet so there's a big mix of different fishes and things (lots of sharks too BTW). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Actually, looking through the 'things to do' guide makes me want to go back there!! I loved the place!!

There's so many places he could stop - gosh theres' also heaps in Queensland.

Around Sydney - I've mentioned the bridgeclimb and the harley ride - the Blue Mountains is definiately a place he should visit - very beautiful and you can easily get there by public transport. About an hour west of Sydney

In Sydney - Bondi Beach - a MUST for any visitor. (Join all the POHMS on the beach- joke, we love the Brits!). Catch the Ferry to Manly Beach, Opera House, Sydney Tower, Darling Harbour.

He's got to visit some pubs while he's here, especially around 'The Rocks' - this is one of the first business ports in Sydney was and has a very violent and interesting history.

Let me think of some other things...

Seahorse!!

YOU ROCK!! Thank you so much for all the awesome suggestions. I will e-mail them to my friend. I do not know when or if he will get the suggestions but it gives me something to do and I hope it gave you something to do as well. Keeps us occupied in plan B.

Hold on girl. It is going to be tough but we can get through it. We asked for this granted, but doesn't it tell us alot while we are doing it? My sister was telling me that this whole plan B thing just gives my H justification for no contact. She said he isn't treating me any differently that he did since he left for school. She said if he really wanted to work things out or if he was going to come back he would break the plan B agreement of no contact and done something about the situation at this point. In her eyes he is never coming back and this plan B thing just makes it easier on him. He can tell his mom he can't communicate with me because i asked him not to. So it is my fault. I am forcing him to be this way.
In any case even if he did communicate, I'm done at this point. I have been researching my next step for weeks. My in-laws go down to visit him next week. Surprise, surprise, he and his siter are staying in a friends apt. while his parents are sleping in his apt in THEIR BED!!! His mom said she would never stay there, and look what is happening. It sickens me. But that is their problem. I am almost free from him and I am so happy for the first time in a long time.

My friends trip occupies a few minutes of my time every once in awhile. So you giving me suggestions helps me rewrite them and e-mail for a few hours. As you know you can blow several hours being on'line!
Keep the suggestions coming I really appreciate them!
Forgiver

PS Is there spell check on MB? I know I always make so many mistakes and I never reread my posts so I must look like an ignorant fool with all my spelling and grammar mistakes.

<small>[ August 07, 2002, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: Forgiver ]</small>

I think Seahorse is really strong to go into plan B when she did. I am weak that way; I hang around too long until he loses all respect for me.

Thanks again Seahorse! You are the best!

{{{Relate}}}

You have to have respect for yourself. You have to work on yourself and refuse to let your spouse bring you down.

Seahorse and I dove head first into making ourselves better people. We have sought out activities that fulfill us and still can't figure out why we didn't do them before. We are discovering ourselves getting stronger and building up our self esteem and self respect.

You can not wait to get approval from your spouse, you get it from yourself. Discover who you are. Be willing to take risks alone and enjoy what you can do. You do not need someone else. Yes we would all like to share our experiences with someone else but for now we are on our own. And we can be OK on our own.

You do not need their approval, you need to live! Life is precious. I am not sure what your situation is but if you know mine, my H is a cheating fool. Through this process of plan A and now plan B, I have become and even better person than before. It is his loss and my tremendous gain.

Take care of yourself and know there are people here who understand and are willing to help you through your struggles. We have all been there at some point. We are all a different stages but we are helping each other through it.

Seahorse is an excellent role model and guide. Follow her story and follow her lead. We are all in this together in some way or another. We will be here for you. You can do it.
Forgiver

Thanks Forgiver. I am not married now. But this is something I've generally done at the end of all 3 of my relationships, one ending being quite recent. I crash big time. MB principals is a good way to repair *or* end a troubled relationship. I guess I'm here to train myself for the future.

Hey, Seahorse and Forgiver,

I was directed your way by relate and Redhat from the Plan A/Plan B board. Reading your threads have brought tears to my eyes. How did you muster the strength to move on? I had no contact with my H for 3 days and it broke when H sent me a 3 page letter saying he wanted the marriage and would do counseling. Well, now we're hot and heavy into our R again (married, but living apart still) and we're back into our ruts. He has only gone to counseling once in the past 3 months.

My whole world revolves around my H (and all other men that have been in my life over the years). When my H isn't around it's hard to drag my butt off the couch. It's as though my very breath comes from him.

He acts like nothing is wrong and I obsess each and every waking moment reliving every other women who he has been in contact with over the past 3 years (even before we were married). These women I'm sure have moved on and my H seems to float through life, but I'm so stuck in the muck!

God bless you both!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ August 11, 2002, 06:17 AM: Message edited by: Free2BMe ]</small>

Wait a minute! I am the exact opposite of what F2 describes. I have many things going in my life.

Sorry relate... I misread your post! When you said you crash at the end of a relationship I thought that meant you didn't have energy to do anything, etc.. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hey Seahorse!

How are you doing? Please check back and let us know. Is your Dad back from scotland yet? What plans have you confirmed for your upcoming trip? I'd love to know what/how you are doing. Haven't heard from my friend about all the suggestions you made. Hopefully he didn't get eaten by a shark or lost in the bush.

I have been the social butterfly. going out last weekend and having a house full this past weekend. I am busy planning the last party of the summer for this upcoming weekend. the longest guestlist thus far. It was very funny this past weekend I only had 8 party guests. We danced the night away on my back deck. By about midnight everyone was exhausted. Five of the 8 people headed for bed. Two went for a walk on the beach which left my brother alone in the livingroom listening to music. At that time the police showed up to say they had gotten three complaints about a loud. wild party with people out of control. Imagine that! There was no such thing. Loud music yeah but no need for the riot gear. When my brother answered the door the cops were shocked. My brother turned down the music and said "Sorry, is that better?" The police laughed and left. I can't believe they were called. Next weekend I'll be sure to invite my neighbors because next weekend will be loud I'm sure. It was very funny to have my brother all alone getting busted by the police for listening to disco too loud.

Sorry to highjack your thread but it will be quick:
Free2BeMe and Relate
It really touches me that my story can help you out at all. I just have been writing about my own pain and how I have tried to deal with it. I know how it is to have your life revolve around someone. Like the Stevie Nicks song goes.. "I've built my life around you..."

I had to muster the strength to get myself out of my house. Otherwise I would probably lay on the couch and watch TV all day. Don't get me wrong I do that some days. But I thought it was important for me not to waste time aching over something that was completely out of my hands. I realized I could not change my H or force him to work on our M so I chose to channel the energy in a positive way and focus on me. In a way it may have been unhealthy because I was so driven that I did not want to think about my H and what he was doing. I felt helpless and chose to do SOMETHING! Anything to keep my mind off where my life with my H was going. But in choosing the activities I did, I became healthier both physically and mentally.
My situation is also a little different because last April I encouraged my h to follow his dream and go to vet school. So I had to get used to the idea of us being apart for the first time in 12 years. I didn't talk to him everyday. When I found out about the A I had already been living on my own for awhile. In your situations, I think your H's were still around which would be torturous I understand.

So I am glad if I can help you in anyway. It just amazes me how my story can be of any use to anyone. If anything it just helps me to sort through this by sharing. Thanks for reading and noticing.

Forgiver

Good to see Forgiver check in, I hope Seahorse is at least haveing a good day. I tell myself you gals are doing pretty good and I don't need to worry about you, but as I have said, I still worry.

Seahorse, I see you are busy helping others and that is good. Your vacation is getting closer, hope you have a great time, not just a good time.

We wonder what's up with the home, and with your dad. You seemed to say once he might not come back. Were you serious?

We also wonder what's up with you - we kind of know what is going on outside, we wonder about inside. ( You too forgiver)

Don't be a stranger.

SS

Hi Guys, at work, have to be brief.

My trip is in three weeks. I will fly to Port Vila Vanuatu then we take a boat to Tranquility Island, which is very basic and have a few dives there. Then we fly to Espiritu Santo and do some dives there, including the President Collidge which is aparently amazing.

I am one of three women in a group of twelve <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> The three girls are sharing a room and I'm looking forward to lots of fun and alcohol (but not too much as I'm diving and also I'll end up crying all night <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> ) ) It will be nice to have some male company (as friends).

Well SS, inside is being sorted. I'm experiencing a lot of anger right now - at H, at the world, at plan B, at myself, at everyone. I think my marriage is over. I'm already thinking as a single woman who just finished a relationship. I'm thinking about what my dog and me will do now. The house will go on the market when I return from holidays - facing another fear.

Dad is in Scotland. He's good obviously as we haven't heard from him since I rang to make sure he was there. He'll be back SS, once it turns cold, he'll be back.

My brother and sister have been contacting me a lot. I have a sneaking suscpicion my dad's asked them to look after me, which is nice.

I do get a bit lonely at times. I am trying to develop more friendships to combat this. I can see I've come so far and yet I feel I still have so far to go. I've sorted things at work (I had a fight with my boss <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> ) but I think it will all work out in the end. I'm looking at what courses I can do to improve my promotional chances here.

I think about my H everyday, I seem to feel differently about the whole situation every day - its madness.

Forgiver, I'm sure your friend is fine, he may be somewhere remote and can't get to a computer. Either that or he's having too much fun - good for him. In Oz we'd say he gone 'walkabout' - the Aborigines apparently do this, they just disappear for a while, not to be seen or heard of then just turn up again. I don't know all that much about it, but presume its like a 'time out' thing. God knows I feel like doing that sometimes.

Anyway much go, I did say I'd be brief, didn't I. Oh well.

Seahorse,

I think you are very strong. I like the way you make firm decisions and stick to them. You should channel some of this experience, self decipline, and energy into your work and you should have a promotion in no time.

Australia sounds like and amazing place. I like the idea of disappearing into the winderness for escape for some time. I hope you come out refreshed and happy.

Relate

Hello Relate, thank you. sometimes I don't feel so strong. I love Australia. I love to travel and see other places, but Australia is my home.

Forgiver, had to put this link for you to check out.

http://www.pubcrawlsonhorseback.com.au/index.asp

Guys, I'm gonna do this. What a mad thing, only in Australia!!

Yo Lizzie - will you have a Vic Bitter for me?

Dave

I am one of three women in a group of twelve The three girls are sharing a room and I'm looking forward to lots of fun and alcohol (but not too much as I'm diving and also I'll end up crying all night ) ) It will be nice to have some male company (as friends).

I hope you have a really great time, and believe you will.

Well SS, inside is being sorted. I'm experiencing a lot of anger right now - at H, at the world, at plan B, at myself, at everyone. I think my marriage is over. I'm already thinking as a single woman who just finished a relationship. I'm thinking about what my dog and me will do now.

I started reading on MB about the time you started posting. I have watched you ride the roller coaster and it hurts to see the pain you have experienced. While I realize that we can stand much more hurt than we think we can, I wish you could be spared. I still believe you will come out of this a much improved person, but that doesn't make the pain go away right now. It's still hard to say if your marriage is over. You know from being here and reading that sometimes after everyone has given up, it comes back together again. There is however only so much you can take, you should watch yourself ( and we will help) and not go too far into the anger that you can't find your way back to love someday.

I hope those nights that you cry all night you will come here and get some help. I am glad your brother and sister call you, they love you and so does your Dad. I suspect your Mum is keeping track of you and does what she can also. You probably feel that this is so.

I've sorted things at work (I had a fight with my boss ) but I think it will all work out in the end. I'm looking at what courses I can do to improve my promotional chances here.

Your taker has been abused badly the last year. I wouldn't be surprised if that had something to do with things at work. Do you ever find yourself thinking " I am not going to take this anymore" It would be natural with all that has happened. I have found that what we learn here applies to every thing we do, and all of our relationships. You can find solutions at work in "HNHN" and "Love Busters" I'm not saying it is your fault there, but you would tend to have all your life relationships affected by what has happened to you. What you have learned can serve you well in making progress with your boss, and in all other relationships. We have love banks with everyone, or friendship banks if you will. We can learn to make deposits there and have good relationships with almost everyone if we avoid LB's and build up deposits in their banks.

I think about my H everyday, I seem to feel differently about the whole situation every day - its madness.

God loves you very much, I believe he sent me to talk to you today to show you that. I feel to tell you that he loves you and is helping you, even if it seems as things are going very slowly. Our emotions are given for our happiness and benefit. There will be a time when these same emotions that are causing you so much pain will cause much joy. Please have a little faith. If you make correct choices now, God will bless you with happiness. Blessings and happiness follow correct choices as Day follows night. ( I admit, sometimes it takes a while, but it comes.) Just be careful and do what you know to be right.

Thanks for the update, I feel that someday we will all meet in a much better place than this and thank each other. I will thank you for being such a good example. I know you don't feel strong often, but we see strength when we look into your heart. We have faith in you even when you do not. Give us a little credit for having correct judgment in your case. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

My only suggestion for you today is that you find a way to pray every morning before you leave your bedroom, and every night before you go to sleep. There really is someone on the other end listening. The better you know him, the easier it gets. Ideas will come into your mind from him about what to do. Learn to recognize them and act on them and it will get easier still. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well, I hope this helps at least a little bit.

SS

<small>[ August 16, 2002, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

WAT - I don't drink beer! I'm going for the horses and the port!! I'll give the horse a VB for you!

SS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do you ever find yourself thinking " I am not going to take this anymore" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes - with just about every poor bugger that approaches me, I'm ashamed to say.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You can find solutions at work in "HNHN" and "Love Busters" I'm not saying it is your fault there, but you would tend to have all your life relationships affected by what has happened to you. What you have learned can serve you well in making progress with your boss, and in all other relationships. We have love banks with everyone, or friendship banks if you will. We can learn to make deposits there and have good relationships with almost everyone if we avoid LB's and build up deposits in their banks. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes I think my boss and I can both learn from each other. I'm trying to set boundaries and become more assertive (but maybe being a bit overzealous). She thinks I am already assertive and that I am going to far - yes I am probably, but I think she is put out that I'm not the yes person any more. I can't be the yes person right now- there is too much in my basket and I can't carry any more.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> God loves you very much, I believe he sent me to talk to you today to show you that. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you SS, I very much appreciate the support I receive at this site. I can be very human and candid here. People here know that what i write one day may not be how I feel the next or may just be venting or silliness.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Our emotions are given for our happiness and benefit. There will be a time when these same emotions that are causing you so much pain will cause much joy. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have faith this is true, but i don't understand it completely.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My only suggestion for you today is that you find a way to pray every morning before you leave your bedroom, and every night before you go to sleep. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I talk to God quite a lot of the day these days. I continue to ask for help.

Thank you for replying about my anniversary next week.

So my update: There is nothing regarding my H

I am still so very angry. I am getting very concerned about it and plan to speak to my counsellor about it this week. It scares me.

My holiday is in just over two weeks!! I have no wetsuit yet <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Doing the usual - yoga, bellydance, getting a facial, having lunch with friends, shopping, playing with the doggy, work work work.

I am feeling within myself that a new life is coming for me i daydream about it and I am getting restless to go and start living it. Its not about leaving my H - I still want to try but know it will be a very long road to travel. No, my new life is about fullfilling my purpose.

Hi Liz,

Doing the usual - yoga, bellydance, getting a facial, having lunch with friends, shopping, playing with the doggy, work work work.

Well, I do play with my dog, and am very familier with the work, work, work, but you lead a much more exciting life than I. Good for you.

You don't say if you still cry often, perhaps you no longer need to. I still believe you will make it through and do very well. Please don't shake your head no when we say that, have some faith in our judgement. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I am happy you are willing to help others, you have a lot to give. Thank you for your good example. I hope you have one very nice thing happen to you in the next 24 hours to make you really, really happy, believe you will. You deserve to have a big smile on your face for awhile.

SS

When you said you ride horses, did you mean land horses or sea horses? <grin>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You don't say if you still cry often, perhaps you no longer need to. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I still cry a lot, lately even more so. I am very depressed, fighting it, but depressed. The place I fighted so long not to be, well I'm here and I don't like it. I'm very angry too and fed up.

I do my best SS (re giving to others). working on the counselling phones can be therapeutic. I did it last time I was depressed and it helped a lot. It can make you realise that others have it a lot worse.

My H has contacted me today via email-mostly re house and wants me to send him a cheque, nothing much else, just a 'take care' at the end. I replied with all details I needed to and 'We (referring to dog and me) miss you very much, lots of love'. Maybe this is not the plan B thing to do, but I really do not care too much about plan B anymore. Its too painful living like this.

I may suggest to him that we go back to 'just friends' I just can't live without him, so if it has to be friends, then so be it.

I'm going to try to contact Harley's via their raido program again tomorrow morning, and see if I can get some advice. I'm quite desperate. Its seems I can live with him or without him.

I've got just over a week to my holiday. I am looking forward to not thinking anymore. I'm looking forward to warmer weather, hopefully that will lift my spirits and get me through my next stage of this horrible mess.