Its over guys. My marriage that is. He came today. There was nothing. We briefly talked about his talk with SH but there was nothing. There's no love there. He said he's been reading up on the website, who knows maybe he's reading this.

Its really over, I have to just get on with it now.

Please don't tell me I will be fine or my life will be better than ever or I find someone better.

Please don't say it. OK

<small>[ November 16, 2002, 01:40 AM: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</small>

(((Seahorse))), (((Liz)))
And one more hug.
FBOW

Thank you for the hug FBOW. Its 12.30am, I just had a big vent on GQII I'm pretty tired now. I think I'll go off to bed and post another day.

Please take care of yourself FBOW.

Seahorse,

{{{{{(((((hug)))))}}}}}. You should talk to SH to follow up and get your plan B ready. Meanwhile it is normal reaction from WS when they know d@mn well that they are at fault and they know that you are trying. Just vent here and get SH's advice.

-rh-

Thanks Redhat, I probably will be back here vent a bit. I'm really feeling very angry. But if this is the way he wants it so be it! If he thinks he can have a better life with her, fine! I have given him the gift now of knowing how REAL love works, he owes me that forever.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Seahorse:
<strong>Thanks Redhat, I probably will be back here vent a bit. I'm really feeling very angry. But if this is the way he wants it so be it! If he thinks he can have a better life with her, fine! I have given him the gift now of knowing how REAL love works, he owes me that forever.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good, vent here, our ears & skin face are thick <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . All of us resonating in all 5 stages of greif, it is normal. However you want to move out quickly from non constructive stages. Anger is normal but you should not act on it and move out to different stages. Judging from your posts ... this is the point actually you wanted to be in. I detect underneath that anger you are in aceptance that you will be fine w/ or w/o your H. This is very good and it will make it easier to plan A or even plan B.

Anyway, you should talk to SH and don't take WH's word but look at his actions. I use to schedule 2 appointments w/ SH, one for my WW and one for myself for the next day. I can't hold my curiosity & nervousness and I could bite all my nails out even for one day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> .

Hang in tough. -rh-

Thanks Redhat, I know this is normal, but it still hurts like hell and I'm still as mad as ever. As much as I feel like hitting out I won't.

I will just never understand. He goes to people who support him to leave me. They've never known my side. They are people who don't believe in working through marriages. To them they are disposable. I am disposable. People who called themselves my friend. I am livid. I'm so angry!

There should have been some result from all this, there should have been. It can't just be that he dosen't love me and that's it. But what he said was so final. I think even if she wasn't there he wouldn't come back.

I'm not sure what to do with myself right now. I'm so angry and hurt I just don't know what to do to calm myself.

I just want him here with me. I just wanted to love him.

No update. Have an appt with SH on Friday morning, will debrief more than anything. Saw H today (day off for dog's chemo). I acted "as a friend" and nothing more, no crying, no pleading, just two friends meeting for lunch.

I am doing OK after a **** weekend. I will get through and am ready now to face the unknown, even though I'm scared.

Chow

Hi Seahorse,
You really had me going for a while there. I have been one of those that had tried to tell you that someday you will come out of the pain and be OK, but I didn't dare say anything.

I am doing OK after a **** weekend. I will get through and am ready now to face the unknown, even though I'm scared.

How could it be otherwise?
I am really sorry for your pain. I don't know exactly how you feel, and I can't take all that pain away and I can't make you feel better but if I could, I would. At least you know we care about you, I hope that helps at least a little bit.

I have been reading on MB for almost a year now and although I can understand logicly how a A happens, emotionally I can't understand how someone could hurt another like this and not feel terrible about doing it. I think WAT, Redhat and I would like to meet your H in a dark alley sometime, I think I'll get that book "how to beat someone senseless without leaving marks."

Actually those thoughts are probably not very proper but we really do care. Since I can't tell you that you will someday be happy, I'll just say that when you say "chow" at the end it makes me hungry and I start looking for where I put my lunch, even though it is not lunchtime quite yet.
Guess it depends on what you are used to. ( and if you don't get that, chow in some places means good bye, and others, it means food.)

SS

PS, notice that not once in this post did I say that someday you would be OK. Not once. I wanted to, but I didn't. ( but If I thought I could get away with it, I would.)

<small>[ November 20, 2002, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi Liz - I just wanted you to know you were in my thoughts.

Please update us after your conversation with Steve.

Dave

Hi Seahorse,
Just so you know I keep you in my thoughts.
FBOW

So, are you back to the point where you can laugh yet?

Hi FBOW, SS and WAT.

Spoke to SH:

He said that after talking to H he see a man who thinks he has found happiness. He has found someone who is willing to fullfill all EN. He suggested that because of her culture she is probably extrememly submissive. He said that there was some emotionally attachment and the danger was that as EN's are fulfilled the emotional attachment would become stronger.

RedHat, if you read this, are you from anywhere near Thailand? I have guessed you are from this end of the world somewhere round that way. If yes, can you fill me in on the culture and how young women are in the culture today?

I am not allowed to fulfill many EN's for him. Thus I am at a disadvantage and actually it is very disappointing for me. I feel very demotivated. I fullfil some conversation and we have lunch/dinner sometimes. Steve thought I should do a domestic support questionnaire with H and show him exactly how much I am willing to do. Obviously he thought that seemed a big issue. I am to find the domestic support questionnaire or make one up.

He asked how I was travelling with this. If I still had energy to go on. I told him I was pretty low and that H telling me there was no chance was a pretty big blow - one that is leaving me feeling pretty awful about the whole situation. I watched an old Dr Phil show that was abut mending broken hearts. Dr Phil basically asked why did the person have the option to come back? I keep asking myself this. Do i really want someone who wants someone who is submissive - that is not me and I won't pretend. Do I really want someone who treats me this way? if H refuses to chance, which it seems he does, can I accept that (No, I can't).

H came over today and was telling me that when he was away on business he had dinner with a female who gave him her business card. According to him, its just as friends (so he's already cheating on OW as well as me). Apparently now this girl calls him twice a day and he can't get rid of her. She has said she's thinking of coming up this way and wanted to stay with him, but he dosen't want her to. Why does he think I want to hear this? I just told him to be careful.

This relationship has reverted to a friendship. Has any R on this board/forum ever returned to a romantic R this way? But I keep looking at who he's become and thinking that I deserve far better than what he has to offer. Not that I'm at all interested in anything anyway, but maybe oneday in the future if that's what God's plan for me is. Right now, this time is for me - to become the person God wants me to be.

So the plan is sell the house and split finances. Find a new place to live and maybe a new job and see what happens from there. Either way I have to do all this and it will keep me busy.

SH says keep chipping away for say a month then reevaluate where I am and how I feel and call again.

What do you think guys? Do you think H can ever be saved. I've handed him over to God, do you think God can get him back? Its like the lost lamb. I personally feel this is a little hope. I asked SH that and he put it back on me. I said that there didn't seem to be much but something inside dosen't want to let it go yet. I've taken my wedding ring and engagement ring off. I wear them on other fingers. I didn't tell SH that, but its a pretty significant thing to me, I feel like a hypocrit wearing them.

By the way SS, I can laugh when something's funny. How about that? In general I try to put a smile on my face, at least I can brighten someone else's day huh?

I can't think of anything else to tell you right now. If I do, I'll tell you next time.

Hello Seahorse,
Can I comment?
I'll take that as a yes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Spoke to SH: He said that after talking to H he see a man who thinks he has found happiness. He has found someone who is willing to fulfill all EN. He suggested that because of her culture she is probably extremely submissive.
Someday he will regret what he has done, but we wonder how long it will take. We wonder if it will be soon enough to matter.

I am not allowed to fulfill many EN's for him. Thus I am at a disadvantage and actually it is very disappointing for me.
WE CAN TELL ! ! !
It really bothers you that he won't give you a chance, because it would be only right, and fair for him to do so. You are having a hard time believing you gave up so much of yourself, and so much time to someone that could ever act this way.

Steve thought I should do a domestic support questionnaire with H and show him exactly how much I am willing to do. Obviously he thought that seemed a big issue.

My feelings on domestic support is that H has blown it all out of proportion to try and blame you for his problems. I also think that we should always address things that may provide an opening, and also you need to make sure for your own peace of mind.

I told him I was pretty low and that H telling me there was no chance was a pretty big blow - one that is leaving me feeling pretty awful about the whole situation.
What an understatement, I wish we could have helped more, but I couldn't figure out what to say that would do any good. I just prayed for you.

H came over today and was telling me that when he was away on business he had dinner with a female who gave him her business card. According to him, its just as friends (so he's already cheating on OW as well as me). Apparently now this girl calls him twice a day and he can't get rid of her. She has said she's thinking of coming up this way and wanted to stay with him, but he doesn't want her to. I think he is just trying to stroke his ego ( she hit on me) and make you feel good ( I didn't do any thing) at the same time. I don't think he realizes how it sounds.
Why does he think I want to hear this?
Exactly.

This relationship has reverted to a friendship. Has any R on this board/forum ever returned to a romantic R this way?
Yes ! , but I can't quote it. Redhat can probably quote chapter and verse.

But I keep looking at who he's become and thinking that I deserve far better than what he has to offer.
Yes, you do. We could go on and on about that part. Someday I may do it, just to see you blush.

Right now, this time is for me - to become the person God wants me to be. So the plan is sell the house and split finances. Find a new place to live and maybe a new job and see what happens from there. Either way I have to do all this and it will keep me busy.
Yeah, right, you expect us to believe you won't worry about H during all this? You are still in love, even if you don't want to think about it. Actually, it speaks well for you that you can be that loyal. Is there something else going on in side you that would make you want to stick it out?

SH says keep chipping away for say a month then reevaluate where I am and how I feel and call again. What do you think guys?
I think it's a good plan, go on and get things done, and check up on things.
Do you think H can ever be saved. I've handed him over to God, do you think God can get him back?
God can do a better job than any of us can do, but he leaves us free will also. I know a lot depends on our faith, but we do well to ask what he wants us to do, and do that. I don't think he will fault you for trying, but on the other hand, if it is ever done, he will help you get on with things too. I suppose I am saying I don't know what will happen but continue to seek God and ask for his help. He has never let me down, but I have misunderstood him a time or two and I felt let down until understanding came ..............later.

Its like the lost lamb. I personally feel this is a little hope. I asked SH that and he put it back on me. I said that there didn't seem to be much but something inside doesn't want to let it go yet.
You can't let go yet. That's one of the problems we have with you. You say you will work on it, then you get mad at him and wonder if it is over. We don't know how to best support you some days. When you say you want to make it work, we say " Way to go Seahorse, keep it up." and when you feel like quitting we try to encourage you that life continues on and you balk and go back to wanting to work on it.

I hope you can see my tongue firmly in cheek. I hope you keep posting your feelings no matter what.

By the way SS, I can laugh when something's funny. How about that?
I know the punchline - "but nothing has been funny lately. "
Boy, I'm really raking you over the coals today, I'll try and do better tomorrow.

In general I try to put a smile on my face, at least I can brighten someone else's day huh?
I suspect you get on pretty good most days. Can the people at work tell what's bothering you? You brighten many others days here on MB, keep it up. I know because I see your excellent comments from time to time. For someone that thinks they are doing so bad, you sure look like you are doing well. Did you realize that?

I can't think of anything else to tell you right now. If I do, I'll tell you next time.
We'll be around.

Now, for a lot of things, I am not nearly as good as WAT or Redhat, but I want to talk to you a little bit about something.
There was a time when you felt so bad you didn't want to any of us to forecast the future for you. We all know you will do well. We have seen enough of you by now that we know that. Sure, you could fail on purpose just to prove us wrong, but I doubt you have that much bad in you.

Everyone must have hope of some kind. It applies to people building their marriages, to those in POW camps, to those that are homeless, and, well, everyone. We were just trying to give you hope. Perhaps we underestimated how much your M is a part of you, and what it means to you to have to say it may be over. ( not saying it, is, just talking about things.)

Sometimes things are so bad that we ( those posting to you) don't know what else we can do but try and give hope for the future. Really, I am not trying to call you on the carpet, I just want to explain why we try so hard with the feeble words we use, it's because we care about you when you hurt. We want to help, and sometimes we can't, but we still want too, and so we try to help when really nothing will help.

I know sometimes you don't want to post on this thread unless you have some "news." Remember we care enough to let you vent too. Sometimes you will just have to put up with what we say, and realize that friends, really good friends don't always tell you only what you want to hear.

We really do know at this point how you will turn out. Now, I know that doesn't make things better, and you still have to live your life and cope with all the bad stuff, but we know.

We believe in you, even on the really bad days............. we still believe in you.

SS

PS,
Sometimes really good friends will leave us alone when we want to be left alone. If we could sit in the same room and speak to you, we could probably sense those times.
As it is, thank you for telling us you were having one of those times, so we would know.

<small>[ November 25, 2002, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

<small>[ November 26, 2002, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</small>

Dear Seahorse,
on board or off-board, I will be thinking about you and wish you well.
I won't be posting too much either, my H came back home yesterday but I don't think anything has changed. I am going to hang on, because he is not mean and loves our kids and they love him too. And he is back home. Maybe this means more than words and I should be more patient? I wish I knew if he consciously chosen to be back with us and what are his plans re A and long distance contact. I don't want to initatiate talk about that though.
I told him before he is free to go and stay if that's what he wants, but I'm not going to make him leave. I wish he would like to be friends with me.
At least he does not treat me as an enemy now.
It is not and won't be easy, plan A while knowing he does not care, but - I hope I will still be growing for myself. No pain, no gain. I love him, I try not to loose any remaining trust that I have in him in other than A areas of our life.
Will see how we will go thru the holidays, Thanksgiving is this Thursday, I invited friends over not knowing if he'll be back, he seems OK with it now.
Maybe if I decide for IC for me, he will go to his own therapist too. So we would be able to talk.
Have a good scuba session!
FBOW

FBOW, good luck with your H. Maybe you should find someone who will listen to you if you need it. IT might be here, it might not.

Myabe Steve Harley could advise you with your current situation.

Dear Diary,

I have a few thoughts on my mind and as this thread won't be used much for a time, I thought I might use it. I only hope I don't offend the rightful owner. I can always delete the posts if asked.
It is unusual for me to share my feelings at this depth, I usually give advice and I try to share my care and concern but I have decided to open myself up - perhaps more than I should. Certainly more than I feel comfortable with. I am not sure why, but I feel it may help.

I have this friend on JFO that I have been posting to off and on but she is not around much right now. I spend time pondering past posts to her and wondering if I could have done things better, or different. I wonder If I could have helped more if I had been smarter, or something. It's one of those things that eats at our minds but there is no good answer for some questions.

I agonize over the things I say, I hurt from the things I read. It's hard to do while I work, because I don't like the staff to see me with tears in my eyes. The store manager caught me once and asked me what was wrong, but I couldn't answer him. At least it's my own business so I am not cheating an employer when I do it. It is even harder at home because I try to give time to my own children and my W. After being here for about 10 months ( I lurked for a while before posting) I have made improvements in my own life, but it requires time, seems like everything takes time these days.

I have a lot more on my mind, but I have to go, I intend to come back when I get a minute. I feel guilty for kind of hijacking this thread, but I hope I get a chance to carry the thoughts to conclusion. If anyone comes by and wonders what I am doing, I hope it becomes apparent after a few posts.

SS

<small>[ November 27, 2002, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Dear Diary,
I should tag this 5:30 am because that's about when I started thinking about what I would post. By the time It actually posts, it will say much later but I am not in the same time zone as the MB server that time stamps it anyway, so what does it matter. I lay awake thinking about this an one other post I need to make this morning. MY W will go walking with her friend this morning (it's a gal friend) so I won't interact much with her until her walk is over.

Today being Thanksgiving holiday in the USA she will be busy cooking most of the morning anyway. I'll help when she needs me but she will kiss me and tell me to read the paper and I will probably work on the car and see if I can figure out why it is running rough. I don't know much, if it is someting comilicated, I'll just call my mechanic and let him deal with it next week. Kind of off task here, so let me do a course correction. I was thinking about my MB friend - the one from Austrailia. ( just as an aside, my computer crashed and I installed a new hard drive, but have not installed a word processer yet, so this is my "raw" writing. I can't spell worth a darn, so I suspect that will show up in this post. I usually do long posts in a word processer and spell check it.)

Anyway, I was thinking about my friend and about prayer. I remember her saying early on that she had kind of lost her faith, or at least was not sure of it. I know she has prayed since but I really don' know what she has found since starting to pray again. It has been one of the concerns I have for her. It's hard enough to find my way through each day with the help I get, and I don't know what I would do without that help. I lost my way for a few months at the age of 17, and I had to find it again. I found what I was looking for, and have followed that beacon ever since. So many prayers have been answered for me, over so many years that I no longer wonder if there is someone there. I know.

I spend much of my time in prayer asking what I should be doing, asking for help in overcoming my weaknesses, and asking for help for others that need love and need to know someone cares about them. I have prayed many times for my friend here on this thread. Sometimes we don't get what we ask for, sometimes we do, some answers are hard to understand. I have learned that my Father in Heaven is always right, and that he always acts in love. I trust him now, early on it was more difficult to do. One of the most difficult things about posting here is that we can't always say everythng that we want to say. Some of my interaction with God is too personal to type out here, but if we ever meet ( I think there will be a convention center in heaven just for MB'ers to meet and talk over old times.) anyway, if we ever meet, I will tell some of them. I hope it is enough now to say that I know God is real, and that he really is in change.

I don't know what is in my friends mind to have her want to stay off the forum right now. I hope she is able to heal. I hope she doesn't feel she needs to come and explain it, and I hope this will make some sense in the end, and that it helps the healing, for that is all that is wanted. Mostly I cry for those that are in pain, and can't find relief. I have shed a few tears over many here, and prayed much for you.

SS

<small>[ November 28, 2002, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

heres my story....after a very stressful year-Thanksgiving 2001- caring for a family and having my young -40- year old friend die and still caring for his wife and babies- working/teaching for the first time in 20 years-for one summer semester-20 year old son on a major solo cross country bike trip-we had ALOT of stress around here. apparently I wasn't paying enough attention to my H and a wandering he went.I had deep suspicions about an A going on-even asked my H to his face.....100x- but I couldn't PROVE anything-and I wasn't home to find out- people were DYING and I am a GIVER. Incidentally-nothing had changed here at home-we all still worked-lived and played together-On October 19, 2002 proof landed in my hands as I was walking into church to teach a teen class on deceit- life is ironic, ain't it? so-I confronted my H- he called the OW and went to see her in the following 3 days to end the A. the OW LIVES DOWN THE STREET- and happens to be my H highschool girlfriend....I can't move- and I doubt she will either.....she is also M. I tracked her H down and told him about the A- he left for a job the next day 3000 miles away and returned home yesterday-so he hasn't had a chance to deal with this in person AT ALL- what a way to spend Thanksgiving?? God Bless him. My 17 and 20 year old sons are dealing with all of this in a typically male fashion-they don't hve much to say to their father and they hover over me-one has a girlfriend with cancer and his plate is very full. I am living on Xanax and have lots of counseling and friends. I ''guess'' we are on Plan A.......but I am struggling with the basic concept- someone help!! Am I supposed to just be NICE and go on living like all this hasn't happened? My H is very good at that. work-sleep-eat-whatever- just like any other day in a peaceful universe....I on the other hand am always ''waiting''- for what I don't know. If affection is HIS idea- its all good-but if I ask for something specific (write me a note-sleep next to me etc..) or tell him my current thoughts and what would help me get past them - I will NOT receive anything-I will get ''quit bugging me''. How do I be nice and never ''needy???'' when does this turn around? how do I turn it around? looking forward to all the holiday therapist answers.....thanks.