any notice the obvious like I do... so many of us guys are suckers. I don't mean that disrespectfully to anyone else... we are all in this together. I am just so amazed at how the same thing happens to us all!!! It's depressing.<p>I wish I had good advice, but I have not been able to make anything work and my WW is still in contact with the OM despite confrontations and admissions, despite no contact letter, despite crying and promising, despite telling me she knows I would do anything in the world for her, despite telling me there is nothing more I can do for her (and she knows the MB system)... crazy.

Baffled<p>Good name. It really does describe what someone "in the fog" as they say on MB can do to the BS. Anyway, had I read your post before Easter, I would have advised like one other that you not wait. You have to remove yourself from situational thinking. That is what leads to affairs in the first place. It is situational that you had a couple of events planned. It is even situational that you have kids. I know that sounds callous but they should not be a reason to do or not do anything differently than you would do or not do if you had no kids. The truth, decency, consideration, the golden rule and all those things don't change depending on situations. People need to do the right thing at ALL times and need to expect to be called on it and right away when they don't. If she figures out that you wait for this and that to happen before you confront, she will always have a this and that to throw up as a reason why right away isn't the time to handle things. I am a believer too in radical honesty. You need to fill in the blanks yourself when she won't. I condone using the GPS to find out where she was. Kind of curious about it if you know. That would be the height of tacky among many other adjectives. Anyway, she needs to know that she has caused her own untrustworthiness and that she will live with you watching her every move. She needs to know that it will not go undetected and that it is unacceptable. Once she sees a pattern that she can't keep you from finding out and that every time you find out there are immediate consequences, she will have to debate her every move with him. Once that happens, there is no spontaneity or excitement anymore, it just becomes a hassle. Women don't usually do it for the sex anyway. Sex is, pardon the term, a payoff for the things that they want from the relationship. If she is being watched so close that she can't get those things, she won't want to make the "payment" for what she is no longer getting, or at least not getting without having to think two and three times about. Good luck. Hope some of this helped.

Baffled:<p>"When I told her that it was like an addiction, she said that made it sound cheaper than it was. But that is exactly what it looks like to me."<p>It is cheap. It's dirty, it's underhanded, it's disgusting, it's demeaning (both to you and her), it's dangerous (don't know where else his "unit" has been). I bet your W is a sensible person... ...when she's not trying to rationalize a fantasy existence. So is mine!<p>This is sad, baffled. I hope things get better, but you may have to get a little brutal (not physically, of course) with her before she'll wake up, if she ever does.

This is just my opinion but what happens the way you are dealing with the situation is that it will continue because your wife realizes there are no repercussions to her actions. The nicer you are and the more accepting of her contact the more she will continue and the less respect she really has for you. I guarantee you if the roles were reversed she would not be as accepting as your are. Of course sometimes your attitude may work, but I believe what will happen in most cases is what happened to So Long.
Your spouse is a cakewoman and will stay in the fog as long as your allow her to be.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I condone using the GPS to find out where she was. Kind of curious about it if you know. That would be the height of tacky among many other adjectives. <hr></blockquote><p>Sad story - even after promising to end the PA the GPS said she was parked in front of a local Safeway for 3+ hours. Doubt if she had that many groceries to pick up. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] Tacky is definitely a kind description.

I'd see a lawyer for a preliminary consultation. I'd gather as much hard evidence as you can against her - Spector the computer, tap her cellphone, get one of those little taperecorders that you stick behind the seat of her car so you can tape her cellphone conversations. The evidence you gather will be extremely painful for you to listen to, and read, but keep your hat on and don't confront her until you have it all in place. Get all the legal you can on your chances of keeping the children should you decide to divorce.<p>She isn't taking you seriously right now - can't because she's in the fog. <p>Once you have your ammo lined up - then you confront her - but only when you feel ready. Give all your ammo to your lawyer so you don't have to have it in your house to grieve over. When you're ready, tell her as calmly and as coolly as you can - no shouting, no abuse, no recriminations - that she has been making her choice and now you are making yours. Your calm may un-nerve her more than anything else. She needs to know that she really will lose everything she holds dear - her family, her reputation, and her children - she must love and want them or she wouldn't have adopted the last one.<p>Do you know why she is doing this? The book Mars and Venus Together Forever by J Gray has given me a lot of clues as to why my H and I have been so unhappy together - he needs to learn to listen to me - I need to learn to leave him alone and not expect him to talk. A woman's greatest need is for communication and to feel like her feelings are being taken into consideration - to feel appreciated and valued. If she's getting this from the OM and not from you, she will find it incredibly difficult to give him up emotionally, even if she manages to break off the PA. She may just be trading "quickies" in order to keep getting the listening she needs from him. Try to address her needs - she said at one point that she wants to be in love with you again - that sounds like what she really wants is to heal things with you - read that book and see if anything makes sense to you.<p>Seeing a lawyer will help you feel more in control of the situation - and remember you don't have to use the information you gather - but it will be there as a lever for you should you decide you need it.<p>I like watching you guys talk - it gives me hope for the future and for men - you're all really sensitive, trying so hard to keep it together and really loving your wives in spite of what they're doing. Sometimes us women think we're the real martyrs and all men suck. But this site has taught me that infidelity is the same for both men and women and it hurts loving husbands just as bad as loving wives. You guys are all REAL heroes. My thoughts and prayers are with you.<p>Odile

Odile:<p>"I like watching you guys talk - it gives me hope for the future and for men - you're all really sensitive, trying so hard to keep it together and really loving your wives in spite of what they're doing. Sometimes us women think we're the real martyrs and all men suck. But this site has taught me that infidelity is the same for both men and women and it hurts loving husbands just as bad as loving wives. You guys are all REAL heroes. My thoughts and prayers are with you."<p>Aw shucks! Now you got me all teary-eyed again. Wish my W would make a similar observation, rather than keep forwarding me those damned "men-are-pigs theme" email jokes!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Do you know why she is doing this? <hr></blockquote><p>I know why the thing was able to get going. She felt isolated in the family - three boys and she felt she was the maid, cook, etc. And the OM was there to help out and bingo. But we've worked those issues out really well, and it continues. I think that those things are why it can start, but once "love" takes hold, it has a life of it's own. She genuinely cares for the OM, and he for her. There is an attraction there that was started by him meeting needs that I didn't, but is not sustained by that. I think that the feelings of love have an inertia all their own - once they get rolling, they are very hard to stop. I think the best that can happen by meeting the needs that he meets is that she can feel like if she does come back, it can be to a place where happiness and fulfillment is possible for her.

Baffled:<p>Since it's been almost 6 months since D-day 1, and since you appear to be doing a reasonable plan A (based on your last post), have you been thinking about going to plan B? It sounds like she's cakewalking bigtime right now, and the only way she can face the need to make a decision between you or her OM, is to be apart from one of you, sans communication of any kind (except emergencies) for a while. Since you can't likely expect OM to do a "plan B", you may have to do it yourself. Are you ready for the consequences? (aka, possible DV). Or are you ready to put up with more of the same for an indefinite period of time? (aka, bake cakes and let her eat them?).<p>Sorry to be so blunt about this.<p>regards,

As I understand it, Plan A really doesn't start until the affair is revealed and S refuses to break it off - at that point, you begin to negotiate no-contact. So I think that I've really only been in plan A since 4/8 (the day I told her I knew it was still going on). Am I wrong?

Baffled:<p>I think you decide how long to give plan A. And YOU need to evaluate just how effective a plan A it's been. For example, I found out in mid-January, but I don't give myself credit for beginning a good plan A (though I tried, I was too torn up to not LB) until late Feb/early March. I think I'm doing okay now, but I'm "planning" on plan Aing until about October, unless I get strong indications that W won't "ever" start recovery on her own sometime between now and then. In other words, if she wants so much to have a private life, when honesty and openness are clearly so important to me, then there'd be no reason not to plan B at that point, whenever it happens (if it does). <p>No, d-day #N is not when plan A starts, because you might have d-days for the rest of your life (gadzooks!!!). Plan A starts when you think it starts! Also, it ends when you think it should end.<p>Take care!

Ideally, plan A starts, and DURING Plan A the BS and WS negotiate an end to the A, no contact, begin to rebuild on the basis of Care, etc.
It is only when this fails that Plan B is considered. And then only when the BS feels all his/her love "units" for the WS are gone/close to gone.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Baffled:
<strong>Survived Easter - in fact had a really good time. W was sweet, semi-affectionate, fun - I could almost forget at times what was going on. Then I called her on her cell just now (Monday afternoon). Said she was in the car - but no car noises in a five minute conversation. She sounded a bit out of breath - have a feeling I interrupted something. It's not a good feeling to be talking to your wife and being relatively certain that she is in another man's bed. I have our GPS in her car, so I can check to see where she was for sure tonight. Yuck.<p>How can she lead such a double life? To everyone she seems the perfect wife, mom, friend. But she is living such a huge lie. How do people do that?</strong><hr></blockquote>

We have been married 20years. I found about the other man august 2001. she denied everything.I set up an audio recorder and sure enough she left him a message on march 19 2002. DOES ANYONE know about the gps taht baffaled spoke of. Does it record every location or just one. PLEASE REPOND I ned to find out wahts going on <p> i'm desparate with 2 small children.

I use the Garmin GPS Emap Deluxe. I got it at:<p>http://gpsnow.com/gmem.htm<p>I put it in my wife's car in the morning and it records everywhere she goes during the day, including time. So you know exactly where the car has been. You upload the "track" to a computer, and it displays a map showing where she's gone. If I hadn't had this, it may have been a long time before I found out.<p>It takes 2 AA batteries - they last about 14 hours or so (use the power saver setting). The tough part is finding a place to hide it in the car where the GPS will still work. The trunk doesn't work well. Under the seats or in glove compartment seems to work.