worthatry,<p>It is universal among WSs to cast blame and identify faults in the BS, apparently to help them rationalize what they're doing. <p>H is so convincing that I am starting to believe him.<p>"Is H still in the cloud?" You bet - BIG TIME!!!<p>I hope it already stops. My nerves are just about shot.<p>There is NOTHING you can do to separate the affairees. To hasten its end- leave them alone.<p>It hurts so much........<p>Stop snooping - you have nothing more to gain by it now until such time as he's REALLY ready to break it off.<p>You are 100% right. I am really really trying.<p>one thing is very likely to happen - the affair will die. <p>I really hope so but I am finding it hard not to feel like a fool. I could just imagine what the ow says about me. Why would the ow continue to see my H when it knows that he comes home every night to us? I pray to GOD that the A does die. I am so worried about my kids.....<p>Lost

nikko,<p>I understand but I never have time to calm down. I think that was one of the our problems to begin with. I work 1st and H works 2nd shift. As soon as I come home H leaves. Then I am home with the little darlings all evening long. <p>I am finding it extrememly hard to slow down. I never ever have time for myself. I am never alone. You would think that I wouldn't even have time to worry about my M. But that's all I do.<p>Thank You,<p>Lost

worthatry, <p>Don't bother him about this and don't ask questions. <p>Let him continue?????? Oh my GOD you are absolutely right this is not humane.<p>Lost

lost-i just stopped in to check on you-hope you are feeling more stable.<p>i truely understand the time thing-my wh leaves for work at 7:00 am and gets home around 10:30 if im lucky. these are the good hours-when he commuted it was even more. a good month for me was when i got to pee twice alone!! i know you'll get that. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>its very difficult-had something to do with the cause of his affair-try to work to change that if possible. but for now work on you. it is a gorgous day here. im gonna go take a nap in the grass in a little while. the sun the grass the smells-its a good thing. have a good day-ill check back later.

2long,

lost - yes, let him continue.<p>I know this is hard to accept.<p>Think of it this way: ALLOW him to continue to make mistakes. Just like an "altruistic" adolescent, he has to learn for himself that he's not being selfish.<p>Do you remember being a teenager? You knew everything, right? No one could tell you anything (if you were a NORMAL teenager). When you were 17, you couldn't believe how STUPID your parents were. Then, when you were 24, you were AMAZED at how much they learned in only 7 years.<p>Your H has regressed to being an adolescent. So, think of him not only as an alien abductee, but as a TEENAGE alien abductee. How more screwed up could you get?<p>The absolute, number one, numero uno, most important, very best thing you need to swallow right now is that you have to realize that you are not dealing with a rational person.<p>This is EXACTLY why I made it RULE NUMBER 1!!!!<p>You cannot accomplish ANYTHING else until you accept this. This is the infidelity survivor principle that makes all other infidelity survivor tricks possible.<p>Repeat after me:<p>My husband is an alien.
My husband is an alien.
My husband is an alien.
My husband is an alien.
My husband is an alien.
My husband is an alien.
My husband is an alien.
My husband is an alien.<p>OK?<p>WAT

2long,<p>WSs very definitely don't like to be "educated" about things that might appear to be telling them they're doing wrong ... because they ARE!<p>Yes, you are right. I mentioned to him that I had something for him to read and he just sighed and gave me that PLEASE....... look. So I didn't give him it. But he did fill out the ENQ. <p>Best thing to do is do your best to continue a good plan A, and try not to worry about what your H is doing. <p>I am trying. But I find myself giving him shots whenever possible, not directly but indirectly. <p>I think, in most cases, the "starting over" or resetting the clock on one's Plan A, happens only when they LB in a big way.<p>That's good to know. I haven't LB in a big way yet but H is pushing his luck. <p>Because, right now, HE'S MAJORLY STUPID!!! Really. He can't think straight. Won't be able to until he pulls his head out of his nether regions.<p>I wonder when that will be?

Actually, though it probably isn't reasonable to make this requirement while your H is in his A, if he comes to you and PROVES he has ended it and wants to rebuild, THEN you should be able to say "no contact forever" if he wants to be able to consider your M in Recovery. I know that's what I'm going to say.<p>When will I know that the A is over? How can H prove it to me. I want to ask but I am afraid that H will get angry with me. When will I be able to consider our M in R?<p>Lost

worthatry,<p>But I do feel guilty only because I wasn't such a nice person and I did neglect him.<p>This is pretty normal. <p>At least I am normal. H was making me think that I was crazy.<p>This is why you have to persevere in continuing to demonstrate that you have "changed" over an extended period of time.<p>I have been lately . And I try to cry when I am alone.<p>This is why you will hear over and over on this forum that Plan A is about YOU! <p>Working on me? Do I still go to my monthly meeting? Bunko/Mother's Club/Demonstrations? I am confused about that. Since d-day I totally stopped going anywhere. I was focusing on my H's needs. I don't want H to think that I don't care. That was one of his problems to begin with. I even asked him if he wanted me to meet him after work and he said NO. <p>H stated that he did want to work out out M, but he won't talk to me about it. FOG????<p>Lost........

lost:<p>Yes, the most important thing you can do now is work on YOU. Once you feel more confident, you'll be surprised to find you understand your H's unfathomable behavior better, and you'll KNOW when his A has truly ended and he's in withdrawl. This isn't to say you'll be able to speak fluent teenage alien. No, it means you'll be albe to recognize all the fog latin, because it's common to all A'ees, and because you'll have read all about them, many times, from this forum, even before your H utters them!<p>Good luck!

2long,<p>How will I know for sure??? H has been distant lately and he said he was depressed and has no energy. H also said that he can't sleep. H stated to the C that when I wasn't in the bed one day he slept great. <p>I thought that I was doing him a favor. And letting him rest.<p>Anyway, I think I may have made a big mistake. Yesterday my H took the boys to the show. Well today I asked them if H had left them alone. They said Yes. Well I beeped him and asked him. And he said YES!! That he went to the bathroom. Then he asked me if I had asked them. Well I lied and said No. H hung up on me....... Did I LB??? Now what do I do??? Should I just confess and tell him that I asked them because I am afraid that he may still be seeing/talking to ow??? Or should I just leave it alone and say nothing and let him bring it up? <p>How has your W been? Are things going o.k.? Your posts are great but sometimes I feel so hopeless. Do you believe in psychics? I went to one and she told me that my H was going to divorce me in June.........<p>Lost

lost:<p>"How will I know for sure??? H has been distant lately and he said he was depressed and has no energy. H also said that he can't sleep. H stated to the C that when I wasn't in the bed one day he slept great."<p>This we should probably get someone else to answer. He may be feeling withdrawl from OW. I think that would be my read of it, based on what you describe.<p>"Anyway, I think I may have made a big mistake. Yesterday my H took the boys to the show. Well today I asked them if H had left them alone. They said Yes. Well I beeped him and asked him. And he said YES!! That he went to the bathroom. Then he asked me if I had asked them. Well I lied and said No. H hung up on me....... Did I LB??? Now what do I do??? Should I just confess and tell him that I asked them because I am afraid that he may still be seeing/talking to ow??? Or should I just leave it alone and say nothing and let him bring it up?"<p>I'd leave it alone, unless he brings it up. I guess it is a LB, but maybe not a big one. Only you and he could tell for sure. Try not to dwell on what he may or may not be doing. I know it's hard, but your best "results" will come when you're confident about yourself.<p>"How has your W been? Are things going o.k.?"<p>2long a story! Overall, going well. Lots of recent developments on other threads (long threads!). My W doesn't see OM, hasn't since November, but she very definitely doesn't want to stop communicating with him (even though THAT has been only a few times/month). In truth, I may be getting close to getting a no contact agreement out of her, but I'll have to keep working on it and plan A to be sure.<p>"Your posts are great but sometimes I feel so hopeless."<p>You should read some more of the posts I've made when I've been down! Thanks for the compliment, though.<p>"Do you believe in psychics? I went to one and she told me that my H was going to divorce me in June........."<p>Groan. No, I don't believe in psychics. And any that would give you that kind of prediction is doing you no good at all, IMHO.<p>Take care,

Seahorse,<p>You know, things really started to work for me when I let go. <p>How did you exactly let go? Did you leave H alone all together? Did you let him come and go as he pleased?<p>I suddened realised that there is life beyond H and although I'd be really sad, life would go on. (Having spunky dive instructors helped too, oops, I'm not supposed to be looking am I? )<p>I know there is life beyond H, but I just can't see thru my fog. I can't stand even thinking of the ow. <p>Having a really fun holiday really helped. <p>What is that? We haven't been on vacation for 3 years.<p>Seahorse what's going on now with your H? Has he come back? <p>Lost

lifeismessy,<p>After 2 wks of his sneaking off to see her I told him he need to 'move out to think.' <p>Is it ok to ask him if he truly wants things to work out? But I am also afraid that H will get angry. Should I ask him? If so is it ok to ask <p>I really thought our marriage was over but here we are a year later and in recovery! if he has kept his promise regarding ow?<p>I am so happy for you. But things aren't looking to good for my M. Maybe today is just a bad day. <p>Lost

lost:<p>Just remember, today MAY BE a bad day, but you still are a good person!!<p>Again, try not to be pushy or clingy with your H. I know sometimes I don't follow my own advice, though, so I'd add that when you "fail" to NOT be clingy or pushy, don't beat yourself up over it. Building a good plan A is as much work as anything, in my opinion. I'm still not sure I'm doing a "great" job of it, but I do know that I'm doing a much better job than I was just a month and a half ago. Before that, I was very clingy and pushy. I kept "resetting the clock" with my plan A after major LBs. These were so bad that I could see all the progress made up to that time go right out the window. But things are getting better. Much better. They will for you too!

2long,
O.K. I am going to try to answer your both responses so please bear with me.<p>I've just finished reading the other responses to you and see that you're getting feedback from the BEST! <p>Yes, great advice. But I am still so heart broken.<p>I've been through some pretty serious downs, even that one recently (only just last week!), but the best thing for me has been the "letting go" advice that you've been getting here, too. <p>I am trying but it makes me so very sad. Things seem down right now, especially when H twists my words around. That makes me nuts. But I just don't respond. <p>I'm not saying that I don't snoop AT ALL anymore. I have a couple of times recently, but nothing I've learned has had any real effect on what I'm doing. <p>I haven't done that lately but I have strong urges to do so. I still snoop when it comes to his beeper though. H thinks I am stupid and puts on a alarm. BUT HELLO........I KNOW HOW TO TURN THE ALARM ON & OFF. The good news is though the ow # hasn't shown up on it.<p>When or if he recommits to you, you'll then be better able to tell whether he's sincere or not. <p>H told C that he did want to work things out. But he still won't talk about our M. How can I tell if H is sincere?<p>We BSs all just got into this mess, in large part, because we were perhaps TOO trusting of our WSs - so much so that we wanted so hard to believe they were faithful that we were unable to see the "obvious" signs for what they were.<p>You are right. I always thought that my H loved me to death....... How very very foolish of me.<p>You are a kind, loving mother and W. You are worth it! You will survive!<p>I don't know about all that but I am trying. <p>This we should probably get someone else to answer. He may be feeling withdrawl from OW. I think that would be my read of it, based on what you describe.

I sure hope so. But how do I know for sure? He wouldn't even let me touch him yesterday.<p>I'd leave it alone, unless he brings it up. <p>I left a message on his beeper and told him that I was sorry that I beeped him. And I also asked him to please call me before he leave for work. Was that to much???? <p>Try not to dwell on what he may or may not be doing. I know it's hard, but your best "results" will come when you're confident about yourself.<p>Totally Totally hard to do. But I am trying. It just makes me so angry to even think that H is still seeing that thing.<p>My W doesn't see OM, hasn't since November.<p>That's a good thing.<p>In truth, I may be getting close to getting a no contact agreement out of her, but I'll have to keep working on it and plan A to be sure.<p>You will get a agreement soon. I just know it. As far as your W not seeing the om since Nov, that is great.......... Fantastic..<p>Groan. No, I don't believe in psychics. <p>Thanks I really really needed to hear that.<p>I am so stressed right now that I am sick. <p>Lost<p>[ May 06, 2002: Message edited by: lost ]</p>