No,
but you got my attention, and I looked. I meant everything I said, and you are welcome to it.

SS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by still seeking:
<strong>No,
but you got my attention, and I looked. I meant everything I said, and you are welcome to it.

SS</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you, kind sir.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

How is it going?

Sue,
nothing much. How are you doing? I've read you are glad to be busy with school again.
I am rethinking Cerri's comment plus other stuff I've read about "out of the door" affairs. And I remember SS comment about my H - if he really wanted to move out, he would have done so. Just a Wifey 2000 posted similar remark on somebody's other thread.

I'm sure you know this trapped feeling - you feel guilt for your part of the situation yet don't want to be forced to be "the bad guy" and make unpleasant decisions while in fact you should not be the one making them.

I can't say that I did not let my feeling be known every once in a while so I consider myself still at plan A, negotiating stage ( just no result yet), not enabler stage. I understand the 6 mos limit, hovewer I saw many people (usually men) plan A-ing longer than that. I know I am still far from readiness for even considering plan B.
I'd appreciate some practical ideas about communication skills - but quite possible with only one side interested - am I asking for the impossible?

I keep practicing setting boundaries and communication skills with my kids and at work.
It was stressful for a while for me as the conflict avoider, but now I actually feel better; hopefully with time I'll see positive result of my improved approach to resolving conflicts - meaning I'll actually get what I am negotiating for....

Thanks for checking on me,
FBOW

PS I had REALLY bad Saturday, I am glad it's over now.

Talk some more about communication. Right now he won't talk to you much, and even won't respond sometimes about day to day things. Tell us what you have questions about, or lead us along your train of thought and let us see where you want to take this.

Ok, you can't just leave us hanging, what happened on Saturday?

SS

I agree with SS.

OK.
It is nothing exciting, just that I was REALLY frustrated - it seemed that no matter where or to whom I directed my communication efforts, it backfired badly.

For instance, as my younger D has asthma which can be triggered by her getting too wild, or even laughing too hard, and knowing she's been sick on and off since Thanskgiving, despite taking strong medications, missed all the school days she could without repeating a semester, I talked to her a bit how she's growing up and how much I dislike being a party pooper and her cop, and that I know she knows herself and is able to control her behavior without my nagging, and she agreed she knows the situation and serious implications ( like that she cannot forget carrying her inhaler just in case etc)( she really does).
Well, few days later she had a friend for sleepover and of course they got crazy, she got sick, I stayed out of it as long as I could ( even asked my H to talk to her - he refused saying she'll handle it OK) but eventually I had to intervene, first time gently, second time calmly, then third time I had to separate them for the rest of the night and pray that her attack will resolve with usual treatment...

Then after a situation on Tuesday with my older D ( regarding receiving phone calls at inappropiate times -we are talking 6am, 11pm, many instances) she agreed I will talk to her BF directly in her presence about our house rules. Well, despite me being calm and reasonable they both are mad at me , don't see the problem, well they are teenagers, I know that, what bothers me though that my D knows what is inappropiate yet somehow makes exceptions for her BF - not to hurt his feelings. Well, like mother like daughter, at least I know now the need for boundaries etc and I want to teach her this skill early in life... Kind of unsuccesful so far. Guess example works stronger than words.

Anyway, I asked my H last Monday for a half hour of his time outside of home sometime on Sat/Sunday to talk about me. I was clear that I needed to share my stuff, not to inquire about his. He reluctantly said Ok, but as I was afraid, conversation did not happen. I need to share with him my parenting issues , some household projects and finances too - you know - I can't put everything on hold as I can my feelings, and no matter what he decides about M those are still the issues - especially parenting - that he probably will still be a part of. For the whole week I did not mention my need to talk anymore, I know that pushing is bad.
And then I thought we were going to the movies together- with kids, turned out H apprently changed his mind last minute so I just ended up canceling plans with a neighbor for nothing ( but helped her with her decorating project in the evening instead- the only good part of this Saturday...).
I cried and felt awful and inadequate, and got almost run over by a big truck caressly changing lanes into me... and I stopped at my H office ( I called first but he did not answer- in hopes we could have lunch and the half hour talk then on Sat. I was calm when I asked him out and he refused, but then I got upset and weepy but somehow gathered myself, apologised and said OK let's talk tomorrow instead and I left. I should not have gone there, I should have known better to vent here, not to look for support from him.

And then you know.
Sunday I felt better, detached again.
There are occasional better moments - like he answered my practical issues email from three weeks ago yesterday. He again responds to my cheerful good mornings and good nights most of the time. Seems like he sleeps more and goes to bed earlier. He talked to older D about something I had a problem with and even though with me he disagreed, and I thought he will not approach her , he did and asked her to be considerate to my request. He does not smile nor accepts anything other than washed and ironed clothes and dinner sometimes.
I hardly ever call him and only ask or offer a hug or handshake once a month or so ( never accepted).

I surely hope it is long and deep stage of withdrawal as he had no in person contact for over two months and possibly less phone contact, email I don't know.

But I will not know unless he tells me - I don't snoop . Or if changes his behavior towards me.

Anyway, glad I am working, glad I have my long distance girlfriend to talk to at least about parenting problems and solutions, glad my D are great kids, and even my D BF is a nice young man, no bad habits, excellent grades, same age, glad I have You to check on me and listen to my venting.

Got a physical checkup too, my body seems to be fine.
Now let the 15# be gone NOW.
Yeah, I know. I'm working on it.
FBOW

Hi FBOW,

Here are my thoughts on some stuff.

For instance, as my younger D has asthma which can be triggered by her getting too wild, or even laughing too hard, and knowing she's been sick on and off since Thanskgiving, despite taking strong medications, missed all the school days she could without repeating a semester, I talked to her a bit how she's growing up and how much I dislike being a party pooper and her cop, and that I know she knows herself and is able to control her behavior without my nagging, and she agreed she knows the situation and serious implications ( like that she cannot forget carrying her inhaler just in case etc)( she really does). Do you mean she forgets her Inhaler? Or that she really knows the implications. Uncontrolled Asthma can land her in the hospital. Does H know how serious this could be.

Then after a situation on Tuesday with my older D ( regarding receiving phone calls at inappropiate times -we are talking 6am, 11pm, many instances) she agreed I will talk to her BF directly in her presence about our house rules. Well, despite me being calm and reasonable they both are mad at me , don't see the problem, well they are teenagers, I know that, what bothers me though that my D knows what is inappropiate yet somehow makes exceptions for her BF - not to hurt his feelings. I have not yet had to deal with this. I will tell you how my mother would have dealt with it. House rules are house rule, if BF cannot respect house rules BF cannot call here until he learns to respect house rules. He is disrespecting me, he is disrespecting you. My mother would not have been nice about it. She would have been firm. She also would have told BF if you continue to disrespect house rules, you are not welcome here until you start respecting the rules and D is grounded. My mom had a way of getting her point across. The grounding as a punishment would have been because I disrespected house rules by not enforcing them and worrying too much about hurting BF feelings and less about how BF was treating me.

Anyway, I asked my H last Monday for a half hour of his time outside of home sometime on Sat/Sunday to talk about me. I was clear that I needed to share my stuff, not to inquire about his. He reluctantly said Ok, but as I was afraid, conversation did not happen. I need to share with him my parenting issues , some household projects and finances too - you know - I can't put everything on hold as I can my feelings, and no matter what he decides about M those are still the issues - especially parenting - that he probably will still be a part of.

You don't have to put this on hold. If he will not participate, make the decisions without him. If he does not like it, too bad. He had his chance, you tried to get his involvement. My H is good at this. He has also learned that if he does not actively involve himself I will go ahead and make the decision without him. When he complains that that I didn't get his input, I remind him I asked, he didn't answer or he gave me a noncommital answer, so I took that to mean that whatever I decide is fine with him. (Is this considered an LB, might be, I don't care, it is a LB on his part to not be an active partcipant and expect me to wait until it is convient for him.)

And then I thought we were going to the movies together- with kids, turned out H apprently changed his mind last minute
Why did he cancel? When my H used to do this, I would ask why, if he didn't answer, I usually reminded him that he is hurting the kids more than me. Let him feel guilty. I don't always stand up for myself, but I will stand up for my kids. I spent my whole life not standing up for myself. Was teased all through school, had two friends my whole childhood. Was not invited to parties, had one boyfriend in HS, which lasted a whole month. My mother was the passive type, when as a child when I would tell her that the other kids didn't like me, and made fun of me, her response was "ignore it, it will go away". Well, guess what, it did not go away, but got worse. I started getting a little paranoid, always thinking they were talking about me behind my back. (They usually were, I could hear the whispers). Books started to fill my life. In HS I made friends from work, these people did not go to my HS.
I promised myself, my children will not go through this. If someone teases my kids, I tell my kids to tell them to quit, if they don't, then they are to tell me. I will then contact the school. My second child experienced this on the bus in Kindergarten. It was a girl teasing him. I told him to get her to quit, you say to her "I know why you tease me, because you like me" Say it infront of all her friends. Trust me she will quit.

Being passive is not true to my nature, when I stopped being passive, people stopped walking all over me, I started to get a better self esteem.

When H walked out on me and the kids back before we got married, he would not commit to doing something. He was holding out for a better offer. So, later he came back to me and said that he could go. (I think I invited him to my company picnic. I wanted help with the kids and I figured it was a good way to spend time together). I told him too bad, I found someone else to help me. (I didn't). I was not going to settle for an blatent display of making me take second place. I also told him that if he ever did that to me again, I would never invite him again.

I may have been waiting for his head to leave his you know where. I was not going to let him know that. If they think they got you, they will walk all over you. When they think they are losing you, and if they don't want to lose you, watch them start to question what is going on.

But then again, with your H, it sounds like depression of some sort. Could be associated to the withdrawal. Remember this is his withdrawal, nothing you can do about it. I know you love him. All you can do is be there for him, but take care of yourself. Keep yourself occupied. Is there a hobby you wanted to start? Do it, is there something you wanted to learn how to do? take a class on it. (I want to learn belly dancing, when I finish school, I decided I'm going to take a class on this.) H might laugh, but I also know, H will want a demonstration <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And yes for those who know belly dancing, I have researched it, and I know that it is not meant as a sexual thing as potrayed in movies, but as a cultural thing. That does not mean that H won't enjoy the show.

Don't let his behavior get you down. Men do actually like self-confident women. The more practice you have at not crying, the easier it gets. He will notice, unless he is that self absorbed, which, it does not sound like he is.

I wish 15# is all I had to lose, try 60. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> All it might take for that is some toning.

I'm sure if I reread what I wrote, it might have some LB's, but I don't consider standing up for yourself as an LB if done it the right manner. Now, if I insulted H to stand up for myself, that he is justified in having an issue with

FBOW

I know I said my mother was passive, and she was, except when it came to being disrespectful in the home and to her and my dad.

Hi Sue,
thanks for your comments.
I almost cried when you wrote about books and HS. Well, I married my first serious BF. I don't regret it, just that I realize I never learned as a young girl how to handle breakups, negotiations, conflict solving and forgiveness. Quite honestly, I don't think he learned that either. Neither of us had many friends, he seems more social that I am, I always was friends with few people "forever", had easier time in HS being friends ( I mean buddies) with guys than girls, more common interests, more honesty, less games.

Re asthma, she knows, she's been to hospital, she remebers about the inhaler and not to abuse it, it's just that some days normal childhood joyous activities will make her sick and she still chooses not to avoid them. My older D grew out after about 10 years of moderate one. So I hope the younger one will get better too. My H knows it's no joke, but never had to make those decisions Saturday 3am another nebulization or does she need prednisone? or will she last till morning to see the doctor or is ER imminent or been puked all over by terrified wheezing toddler. I am actually doing much better now, but about five-seven years ago when both of them seemed to be sick constantly I must have been really unpleasant to be around (worried stressed desperate frustrated housepolice always thinking cons about sleepovers, trips etc. Long story, glad hopefully it's past me. And yes, I am aware my stress and anxiety can be contagious and cause worsening of asthma. Which only makes me feel guilty.

There is a series of DVDs with belly dancing twins. The beginner one which we rented was quite easy to follow as a stretching exercise mostly.

I know what you mean about making decisions when you receive no input. Well, in the past then I would get criticised for bad decisions and I it would make me resentful and detached. I do buy into POJA, too bad I did not apply it years ago.
I despise me being left with decisions in situation where there are only loose-loose solutions. I actually am happy with H making most of important decisions, and when it's my turn to decide I need probably too much input to ensure ME that it is a right one. I hate making mistakes. Critising hurts me horribly. Especially when I know I was wrong.

I know if I am going to enjoy something now I have to contend it will be single activities.
Or just me and girls ( or just me and younger one as older one is so much into BF).

I'll let you know.
FBOW

Hi FBOW,
I thought I would check in and see how things are going.
Thanks for telling us about what happened that Saturday. It means something to me because I have a son that uses an inhaler and he used to loose it sometimes as a teen. ( he is 22 now, and about to get married, so then SHE can worry about it. )
No, actually he is pretty good now, so it does get better. When he got a part time job at about 16 we told him that we would get the inhalers as often as he needed them unless he lost it, and then he had to pay for the lost one. The loss rate went way down.
I saw JL comment about raising children on another thread. He said that we need to set boundaries for our children and teach them what is right and help them learn. I have to agree. My oldest is 25 years old now, my youngest are twins 9 years old. I have learned that if we don't teach them what is right and that their are limits to what they could and should do, that society will teach them later at a much higher cost. I know you are trying to find some middle ground between freedom for her and what is proper and right. I hope you don't go crazy trying.

BTW, it sounds like you are doing a pretty good job of it for all you have to worry about.

I can see you want to work with H about things besides your own relationship.
I am glad you asked to speak to him, and sorry he did not go through with it then.
For the whole week I did not mention my need to talk anymore, I know that pushing is bad.
Pushing is bad, but stating your needs and respectfully reminding him about them is not. It is not an LB to ask for a need to be met, even if the spouse treats it like an LB. He is the one that has the problem here, and you don't need to make it your problem too. I hate stuff like this. If it was me, I would probably ask to talk, and if he did not, I would go ahead and do every thing I thought needed to be done. I suspect you go ahead but it worries you. I remember you said once that you had a hard time knowing what to do on your own. In a way this will give you some personal growth.

And then I thought we were going to the movies together- with kids, turned out H apparently changed his mind last minute (I would guess this happens often) so I just ended up canceling plans with a neighbor for nothing ( but helped her with her decorating project in the evening instead- the only good part of this Saturday...)
If he does not repent, someday he will understand the hurt and pain he is causing you now, and he will not like what happens to him then.

I cried and felt awful and inadequate, and got almost run over by a big truck carelessly changing lanes into me... and I stopped at my H office ( I called first but he did not answer- in hopes we could have lunch and the half hour talk then on Sat. I was calm when I asked him out and he refused, but then I got upset and weepy but somehow gathered myself, apologized and said OK let's talk tomorrow instead and I left. I should not have gone there, I should have known better to vent here, not to look for support from him. And then you know. Sunday I felt better, detached again
FBOW, I have said this before. I worry about you. I don't think you will do anything rash, or fall apart all of a sudden, but this takes a toll on our health and I worry that over time it will affect you. I am glad you have a friend that you can phone but I wish you had a good friend right close to go walking with, or out to lunch with every so often.

I am glad you report that their are better moments. You need some of those.

I surely hope it is long and deep stage of withdrawal as he had no in person contact for over two months and possibly less phone contact, email I don't know. But I will not know unless he tells me - I don't snoop . Or if changes his behavior towards me.
I suppose that means he has never had a talk with you and told you what he intends. It bothers me that he won't talk to you. It could be withdrawal, and it could be that he is lost and doesn't know his own way and so he doesn't want to talk because he won't know how to respond. I can't remember if you have ever brought up counseling, and if so, what he said.

Now let the 15# be gone NOW. Yeah, I know. I'm working on it.
I wish mine were 15. I have 30 to loose. I was doing well until the holidays, and then I kind of stalled out. That reminds me, has H ever commented on the nice meals you have made for him? Is there any sign at all that he knows how hard you try?

Well FBOW, there is not much you can do to force communication on someone that won't talk. I would ask him to talk as often as you need to. I would even ( every three or 4 months) say something to the effect that you need more from him, and you expect more from him because he is your partner. If he won't talk, or answer the notes, go ahead and do whatever you want as long as it if what you think is best for the family. I agree with Sue on that.

Thank him when he will answer or talk. Thank him for talking to daughter for you. Give admiration whenever you can, it seems that it is important to him. I can't imagine why he wants to live in limbo, and won't commit to either world. It does seem that he is afraid to let you meet his needs for fear he will like you again.

I wish I had more for you, even though I know you are not seeking direct help most of the time. I hope you are well and happy today, right now. It is interesting what you and Sue have to say about HS, and friends, and books. There are so many things we learn in school, yet we don't understand what we have learned until much later in life. I encourage you to continue thinking, you are good at it, and you are learning a lot just by connecting your past with your present.

How do you feel you are doing on the changes you have been making in yourself? Are you happier on the inside and out? Are you able to laugh, and have fun at times?
I still pray for you every day, I still care. I really hope you are having some good times, we all need them.

SS

<small>[ January 28, 2003, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi FBOW,

How is it going. I haven't been on much lately. School, kids, unemployed H who is around too much now.(LOL).

Hi,
the work week flew by, did not have much time to lurk on MB board.
Nothing unusual happening. Saw good results with D and her BF re communicating and boundaries mid week.
Gently told H that 30min of his time once a week without me feeling I'm interupting his activities or too much of a chore for him would be beneficial to me. Suggested we plan in well in advance, maybe in email.
SS, thanks for your attention. I know you'll understand when I have no energy to share.
FBOW

FBOW,

What was H's response? Or didn't he response.

I get my H's attention when he ignores me by making the decision without him. He has his opportunity to provide input, take it over, whatever the situation, if he fails to respond, I take it over. If he does not like my decision, too bad, he had his chance and I tell him so. I remind him that if he would have given me some of his undivided attention, he would have heard me. (I know, an LB, but then again is it LB to stand up for yourself?, Not in my book)

Hi FBOW,
I thought I would check in on you again. I understand about the no time, you should only post when it helps you.

I still think about you and I still pray for you daily. I admit I worry about how you are feeling and if you are somewhat happy.

I wonder how the communicataion is working out. You seem to be more secure in your self and you seem to be moving ahead even if he won't come with you. I believe that is good. I have faith in you.

SS

<small>[ February 04, 2003, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi,

Sue - no response to my asking for a conversation.
I try to remember that I can't force anything, only to create environment, and also that maybe it's not always that my efforts are inadequate, but that there is NO interest or goodwill on the other side.
That in mind, rejection is still very hard on me, and does hurt my self esteem lots.

Yes, I proceed when I have to, and I know I am capable of making decisions. It just makes less and less sense to me to live in this parallel universe. There are just very few things that then still seem to be worth fighting and making decisions for. And if there was any fun associated with them, by that time there is none for me left. Like for example going to the movies "together" but ending up taking two cars to meet there and watching different ones. Or making dinner that will not be eaten. Or doing some home improvement that turns out nobody cares about anyway.

SS, I still have some hope and patience and love left. Thank you so much for your thoughts and prayers - I need them. A clergyperson to my surprise pretty much told me to take care of myself and my kids first and not the M.
I have a girlfriend to take a walk with or get together sometimes, I just can't share too much with her in order to keep my own commitment not to subject H to external pressure if she knew why really I feel stressed and sad and upset sometimes. Just to refresh - the idea behind my thinking was ( and is) I want H to stay with me for me, not because he was influenced by coworkers opinions, comments by his parents, kids sorrow etc. I know that in reality anybody's decisions ( just like mine) are influenced by children, material belongings, job, and family anyway.
I believe I am still growing, especially in areas of patience, and communicating (with kids), also setting boundaries and defending them (at work), asking - not demanding.
I feel terrible void emotionally and re SF, also yearn for touch other than hugs from kids or me petting my cats... or a word or two of appreciation for regular, everyday things I take care of and the occasional larger projects that I complete.

I try to create occasions for H to be with kids more while home and also to drive them to their activities. I hope that no matter what happens to our M, H will still be their father, even if faced with long distance.

H travels very little on business now. I thanked him when he told me a day in advance about a 2 day trip relatively close. I know that if he tells me he goes overseas again I will need to talk to him and give him plan B letter saying that I can't endure anymore of the cakeating but I am willing to wait for him while he figures out his plans in separation.
I have no letter ready yet. Not even a first draft.
Till later,
FBOW

Hi FBOW I feel so sad when I read your post. I feel like I want to give you a big hug and your H a kick up the bum.

Have you read the book 'The journey from abandonment to healing' by Susan Anderson. Its very good and has practical exercises. It helped me so much and I highly recommend it.

You are right in that you are doing your best but you can't change him. I am sad that you have noone you can really talk to about this - I know I badly needed support and would not have got through without it.

Hi FBOW,
I really don't have much sense of urgency when I post to you. You seem to be able to cope so well from week to week, and you don't come on and say you are in the middle of an emergency so that I tend to not worry much unless I really think about you. Just having done that, and re-reading some of your past posts again, I can see that your love bank is slowly sinking and you are wondering why should you continue with him.

It just makes less and less sense to me to live in this parallel universe. There are just very few things that then still seem to be worth fighting and making decisions for. And if there was any fun associated with them, by that time there is none for me left. Like for example going to the movies "together" but ending up taking two cars to meet there and watching different ones. Or making dinner that will not be eaten. Or doing some home improvement that turns out nobody cares about anyway.
You need to know that you have value. I know that you do, but it is hard to communicate it to you from a keyboard. When someone tries as hard as you try, you ought to know that the things you are doing are worth something. I hope that someday you will realize the blessings from the effort you are giving. The law of the harvest is unchanging, " whatsoever a man soweth, so shall he also reap." I may not have quoted it exact, but it always is true, and it applies to women too, as I believe you know. You are a better person for your struggles, and you will be glad you made the effort, please know that. I wish there were some better way of expressing this to you, I hope you can feel how true it is.

A clergyperson to my surprise pretty much told me to take care of myself and my kids first and not the M.
That is exactly right. Right now your family depends on you to hold everything together. There is no longer a team, there is only you. Because of this, they can only do as well as you are doing. You need to make sure you don't give too much, try to hard, and get burnt out. I have the feeling that you have been skirting the line for months and been close to massive burnout. I don't know if you can see it or not, but I feel it is true. Please take care of you, and take time to unwind and relax at least every few weeks. You need at least 3-4 hours to do this and have it be effective. That's the minimum - at least from my perspective. I hope you will follow this very good advice from whom ever it was that gave it to you.

I am glad you have a friend to walk with, but I wish you could talk to her about your feelings.

Just to refresh - the idea behind my thinking was ( and is) I want H to stay with me for me, not because he was influenced by coworkers opinions, comments by his parents, kids sorrow etc. In my mind, the reason doesn't matter as much as the fact that he stays .If he will stay and do NC with OW, you can fix things over time and one day he will wake up and realize he is in love again. That is, if you can last that long. Work with what you have, and improve upon that.

I believe I am still growing, especially in areas of patience, and communicating (with kids), also setting boundaries and defending them (at work), asking - not demanding.
You have even changed the way you word some things in your posts. It seems to me that you think about some things differently, and that you have hope and happiness in your children when you had only sadness and pain before. I still feel much pain, but I believe I feel some hope now too. I hope that is true, and not just wishful thinking on my part.

I feel terrible void emotionally and re SF, also yearn for touch other than hugs from kids or me petting my cats... or a word or two of appreciation for regular, everyday things I take care of and the occasional larger projects that I complete.

I would tell him flat out something like this, " H, I do a lot of things for the family to keep us together and to make things work. It has been really hard to have a positive attitude for quite sometime. It would really help me if you could at least recognize some of what I do around here and thank me for it. Please give me some help with this, I really struggle to go on."

I am sure you could come up with a better statement that I did, but I wanted to give some kind of example. When things are already very bad, it doesn't hurt to experiment. Don't be afraid to try things. I see in the past you have asked for hugs, and he has not given them. That is pretty cold on his part, and I don't understand how he could to this to you but then, look at the hundreds on this board that have a spouse that has done the unthinkable.

FBOW,
You have a great many strengths, I hope you realize this. I hope you don't get tired of the good you are doing. I hope you can get the answers you seek, and I believe you will be happy again one day. I admire your strength, and I know you don't often feel strong, but I feel that you are. I hope that from this post you can get a feel for all the good you do, for you have done a great deal of good in a very difficult task. Please give your self credit for it.

SS

<small>[ February 09, 2003, 12:09 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Dear SS,
thank you once again for your thoughtful and kind words.

I wish I felt the strenght you seem to see in me. I am encouraged by your suggestion to experiment, since there is not that much my failed expriments will worsen anyway.
I know my biggest hurdle is to force myself to try to succeed in the areas I am not good at all. In life I used to avoid anything I knew I am not good at and had no reasonable assurance of success. That's why I don't gamble and have not participated ever in any competitive sports.

SS, maybe in the past good things came to me too easy, and I lack the drive and commitment necessary to overcome hurdles; I also have no experience with handling of a failure other than sweeping in under the carpet.
What I am doing right now (again) is setting myself small tasks, and congratulating myself for completing them, even if it takes me more than one try. I also try as hard as I can to learn that my own feeling of appreciation matters too, that I don't neceeserily need others to cheer me or take critical comments too hard. Well, to tell you the truth I know that this is my character and I won't be able to change this need of mine, BUT I can build my confidence slowly by having more and more of little successes for which I feel proud of.
I hate to admit it but I am very fragile, especially right now, and taking rejections or blame or criticsm does destroy whatever progress I made.
But - I will not be discouraged by those setbacks - I believe my plan is reasonable and will make me with time a better, more suitable for real life person.

I am very hapy for Sue to get some positive feedback and actions from her H.
And I am glad Seahorse is in a better, more stable state of mind, despite not everything happening according to her original hopes.

I will get there too. Might take me longer than the others and with more setbacks and mistakes, but that's OK.

FBOW

Hi FBOW, you're right, I am learning happiness does not rely on 'when this happens' -its a state of mind that I can choose to be now. I can choose to be happy or I can choose to be sad. Dosen't mean things don't get me down, I brood for a bit then decide what I am going to do to change it - after all I ultimately created the situation.

very glad you are committed to making your life better, what you think is small steps may actually be bigger than you think.