I dont' think you are ignoring my point of view. It is your decision, and when you are ready, you will decide. When you are ready, you will feel deep down it is the right decision.

And, no, I don't think trying AntiD's route, is another attempt to look for silver lining and grasping for more endurance. When you or if you make the decision, you will know, that you have tried everything within your ability and then some to make it work. You have to have no doubt that you made the right decision.

Having said that, you will have the strength to stand by your decision.

I'm glad you will see your YD soon. The break from parenting is nice, it is even better when you see them again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Greetings !!

I think I'll hit you one more time tomorrow and then give you a rest for a while. You'll have plenty to do with D coming home.

FBOW, I really hope this week has been good for you. I hope you are more at peace, less worried.

You have a very sharp mind, I really do think you can trust your solutions, because you have examined this very well, and you know the options and the way each would likely play out. Trust yourself, trust your ability. I'll TRY and talk to you little more tomorrow.

SS

SS, I'm all ears.
I am thinking what Redhat had to say re Plan A and Plan B in his post to Adam H Comment .
I just got back from showing the rental. This person seemed to be not only quite interested, but also viable candidate. We shall see. I had a few disappintments with wannabe tenants already.
It was a good week. I met few friends, took care of medical stuff, arranged for carpet cleaning on Saturday, succesfully dealt with ant invasion, stayed calm and positive at work, now I just need to iron and organize paperwork, and welcome my D home tomorrow.
I itch to call my H, I will not though, but I did IM my D phone with just a cheerful "I wish you a good time" message. I don't even know if her phone is on and is working where they are now.
Looking forward to your comments,
FBOW

<small>[ July 17, 2003, 11:23 PM: Message edited by: forbetterorworse ]</small>

Hi to All,
quick update; nothing exciting happened. AntiD make me sleepy and so far no boost in energy. My D is back. Been busy with rental but nothing definite yet. H called but only to ask for help with phone number. I love him and it is hard for me not to tell him this everytime he calls as I know he doesn't care and this most probably just annoys him. So I keep myself brief, to the point, and listening to him, however brief and businesslike he is.
Took care of few household fixups over the weekend. I should be proud that I CAN do these, but it so insignificant now.
Take care
FBOW

It is not insignificant about the accomplishments you do. Even home fixups.

It might be the antiD's. They made me sleepy too, so I quit them.. I slept to much and it was interfering in school

Hi FBOW,
I am not really sometimes about getting back to people in a timely manner. My W says I need to put my family first, and I do. ( she and I talk about what's going on with MB at least once a week.) I sometimes feel guilty about not getting back to others, but I just do the best I can.

I am thinking what Redhat had to say re Plan A and Plan B in his post to Adam H
One of the things redhat says is "You are not stupid, you just love her too much. "
It's the same for you. Lets say you pay for a cell phone for your older daughter. Lets also say that when you get the next bill, it has $503.21 in long distance roaming charges on it because she lent it to a friend that went on a trip. You are not happy about this ( I love understatements sometimes.) Since you are not happy, you do something about it. You tell your daughter that if it happens again the phone will be taken away. Next month she does it again, so you do what?

You may just love him to much. You keep looking inside for the solution, when it depends on him, and not on you. There are lots of reasons for your feelings, but I think it depends on him. I think it's time to take away the phone so to speak. He is a cake eater. He gets her, he takes trips, spends time and even family money on her, and he comes home to a wife that loves him and takes good care of him. You add respectability and stability to his life, and you show no signs of changing anything. ( at least as far as we can see.)

I am not saying this as a negative, it shows how loyal and kind you are. Now we need to see how tough you are. I believe you have been tough on your daughter lately (not too tough, but firm) because you subconsciously realize these things and know what your daughter needs so she doesn't turn out like H. I think H shields her because he seeks companionship in his sins - so to speak. He gets away with things, so if she does too, he doesn't look so quite so bad.

I will say more about this one later.

I just got back from showing the rental. This person seemed to be not only quite interested, but also viable candidate. We shall see. I had a few disappointments with wannabe tenants already.
I managed a rental property for quite a few years. If you have reservations about them, don't let them in. Always ask for references for where they live now, and CHECK THEM EVERY TIME. All you really need to ask is: " would you rent to them again?"

It was a good week. I met few friends, took care of medical stuff, arranged for carpet cleaning on Saturday, succesfully dealt with ant invasion,...............
So about this ant invasion - are they making a new science fiction movie or what?
Just kidding.

............... stayed calm and positive at work, now I just need to iron and organize paperwork, and welcome my D home tomorrow.
WOW, I am always impressed about how much you gals get done. I think in that same time period, I got a haircut and a drink of water. How do you do it?

quick update; nothing exciting happened. AntiD make me sleepy and so far no boost in energy. My D is back. Been busy with rental but nothing definite yet. H called but only to ask for help with phone number. I love him and it is hard for me not to tell him this everytime he calls as I know he doesn't care and this most probably just annoys him. So I keep myself brief, to the point, and listening to him, however brief and businesslike he is.
I know you know this, but it's not right. It's just not right. I really think it's time to take the cake away. Please don't take this wrong, I will support you however I can, no matter what you do, but I wouldn't be a friend if I didn't tell the truth about how I feel.

Took care of few household fixups over the weekend. I should be proud that I CAN do these, but it so insignificant now.

It seems insignificant because - well, it's kind of like straightening deck chairs on the Titanic. You get them all nice and in a row, and what good does it do really when the whole ship is going down. That's what you are coping with emotionally, something on that kind of scale. FBOW, this is not a normal kind of pain, it's not you causing problems..

Sue said:
It is not insignificant about the accomplishments you do. Even home fixups.

You two are a lot alike. Things fall apart all around both of you , and you continue to take care of things. If I ever had to go to war, I would take either of you to fight beside me. You would never cut and run, and the enemy would probably not last long.

I was about to say "heaven help them if they ever took either of you prisoner.' but you might take it wrong, so I won't say it.

FBOW, I still say it's not your fault.

SS

Hi there, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thought I'd start with a smiley face.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">............... stayed calm and positive at work, now I just need to iron and organize paperwork, and welcome my D home tomorrow.
WOW, I am always impressed about how much you gals get done. I think in that same time period, I got a haircut and a drink of water. How do you do it? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is because women are better at multi tasking. I read somewhere that our brains are wired so we can do that, where men, can focus on one task at a time. Women are working on one task, and thinking about 5 others. And lets not get into how many do we jump around to get done.

I also read that with me, they do a task, and need a nap. Such as mowing the lawn. Women, can mow the lawn, and then hang the laundry, clean the kitchen, go shopping and don't tire out until bedtime. I heard it has to do with women have more endurance, but men have more physical strength. (Could this be an argument for who is the weaker sex) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I ever had to go to war, I would take either of you to fight beside me. You would never cut and run, and the enemy would probably not last long.

I was about to say "heaven help them if they ever took either of you prisoner.' but you might take it wrong, so I won't say it.

FBOW, I still say it's not your fault. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Either one, why not both <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> All we would have to remember is that this guy has the potential to hurt our babies. We go from ladies to tigers.

I would not take it wrong, heaven help those who take us prisoner. I value my freedom, alot.

Seriously, I do not want guns in my house, 9/11 had me thinking. I would have gone an boughten one and learned to shoot if times warranted it. As much as I have an aversion to guns, I do not have an aversion to hurting someone who could hurt my family.

Thy are back. Nothing changed. I try very hard not to LB. I am not sure I will stay in Plan A for two weeks. Probably just one. I am so sad.
I am still not able to ask ANY questions ( not R related) without being accussed of investigating. My concerns re finances are dissmissed are me being weird and too nosy. My invitation to move back to bedroom rejected again.
I will be writing letter this week.
FBOW

FBOW,
I have said a great deal about what I think.

I would like to do this a little different today.

First, I would like to offer you support. You know others care about you, but we need that kind of help often. I want to tell you again that even though I don't have a crystal ball, and I don't know what will happen, I do care.

Second, I will continue to pray for you.

Third, I would like to know from you what you would like most from us. That is, what can we do to best help you? How can we best support you?

AT this point in time, it looks like you have made up your mind, and we ought to support you and lend strength in what you will do, so please let us know how to best do that.

I believe you have faith in God. I believe you know that the conditions of hardship we live under here ( on earth) are temporary. I believe you have the hope of a better life. It helps to have hope but day to day help is nice too, and that's what I hope to be able to give.

I want to say again, that the problems have not been created by you. People with good marriages don't go away for weeks and then come home and tell you you are crazy for wanting to know where they were and what they were doing. People who care about their spouse don't do it in the first place, and surely wouldn't treat you that way upon their return. He is so sure of himself that he is openly mocking you. I think even your grandmother would wish you to take action. But then, I am giving advice again, and I didn't intend to do that.

Let us know what you feel would be the best help for you.

I want to tell you one more time - I have faith in you, and in your ability. Please don't doubt yourself.

I have faith in God's ability to guide you correctly, even when you have a hard time understanding what he wants. He cares, and he will help you. Please believe that he can and will help in ways that you will understand and accept. Surely he can do this, can he not?

I'll be praying for you each day this week that you might know the proper thing to do, and that you might have the strength and courage to do it.
I know it may not be easy, but that has never stopped you yet.

SS

Hi FBOW, I see you are hanging in there and doing what you can. You WH is blind and does not appreciate what he has. I hope he wakes up to this soon.

Good for you for what you are doing. 'Coping' with things, dealing with 'stuff' that you wouldn't normally do will build your self esteem and make you less reliant on others. This is important in any kind of relationship - take responsibility for you, care for you. Be there for you. Its not easy, some days you will feel desperate and scared and want to give up, but keep telling yourself that you can do this - who else will do it if you don't? Look in your heart for what you need to do- be true to yourself and the rest will follow.

FBOW,

I'm here for you. What can I do?

I have three different out of town trips between now and Aug 18. I may not be around much ( but will try) between now and then. One is a family reunion. The other two are business related trade shows.

One of my trade shows is in Las Vegas and I will probably be there the 11 or 12. Sometimes my W goes with me and I take her out to dinner.

Yes, possibly.

I'll be back as often as I can, but probalby not long posts for a while.

Meanwhile FBOW, I hope you can improve, and I hope your H will start helping. Considering what is happeing, your attitide is really good. Sue has lots of worries of her own, but she still asks about you. See what a great gal she is, I always knew that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

SS

SS I hope the trade shows go well, have fun at the family reunion and if the wife goes with to the Vegas one, Have a good time together.

Hi Sue, SS, and Seahorse,

Sue: Just knowing that you stop by my posts while facing similar dillemmas gives me more stamina to go on. I appreciate your matter-of- fact comments re. raising kids, teenage girls/romance issues and such. These make me believe I am not "loosing" it, that my actions in crazy circumstances are still rational if harsh. And SS is right, you help and keep your eye on so many here. No wonder with your compassion you make great nurse!

Seahorse:
From the post on your thread I sense you are progressing, and the recent milestones, while hard, you accept as neccessary and build yourself upon them, not fight them. I realise you earned the ability to deal with life the way you do, and I both admire and envy you for that. I am glad that you have the emotional and physical closeness to your Dad, and I wish he will expand his circle of friends as you did.
You are the shining example that even when you get no cooperation from your partner YOU can still live your life honorably and happily after all. So there is hope for me, too.

SS,
Let your trips be fruitful for your business, and hopefully you will be able to squeeze in some Rec time with your wife on the road.
I am very glad to hear that you will be able to see your family and possibly friends as well.

I am OK. Lease is signed, raise should show on the next paycheck, AntiD helping me sleep thru the night and sometimes stop thinking what H is doing that I suspect or don't know but would hurt me.
Younger D after med change doing much better with her asthma, my own good physical health is encouraging and motivating to eat well, excercise and loose some weight to keep it this way. My gym buddy girlfriend will be back in a week.
I have a full year to keep improving myself, detach emotionally/ or meet my H if he has an awakening.

Wishing you All a good weekend,
FBOW

FBOW,

I know this is hard, but no matter how it works out, you will be OK.

If your H has an awakening, I hope it is in time.

You are an incredible woman. It is too bad he does not see it. He saw it once. Stay focused on yourself. It is time you were selfish with you.

So,

FBOW's H has been home for some time now. No change at all. FBOW's Doc has got her on anti D meds. FBOW seems to be doing better, less anguish in her posts. Could be the meds, could be she tries not to think about things any more, and succeeds most of the time. She signs lease with renters so she doesn't have a place to go for plan B. This means another year *as is*.

Should I worry? I don't know.
Do I worry? Yes, and for that simple one word reply, I get the master of understatement award today.

FBOW, tell us more about yourself.

What does your world revolve around?
How do you spend your time? Do you have a hobby? Do you spend all your at home time doing things for H, and D's? Keeping house? What?

I would like to know what your focus will be this next year, and I think you know why I ask.

Before you were focused on what you could do to get his attention, on the new home, and on your daughters. You have tried everything on him that you could think of, except plan B. You will still focus on D's but they have outside intererests and give you less time as they grow up. Work is a stress producer, not reducer, and definatly not a hobby. I get tired of using the word "worry' but it is still valid. I worry.

What's your plan for YOU. I want to know how you are planning to deal with this next year.

I realize that you exercise, that the Doc says you are healthy, and that you watch your weight. That's good, and I am glad you look out for youself physically. Now, tell us how you will proceed to look out for your emotional health this next year. Sue is right, you need to be selfish for your own emotional health. I want to see some details, so I can quit worring.

I am glad you got that rasie at work, that means that your review was finally finished. It must have been good, or probably no raise. That is good, and reduces stress - except they still demand a lot from you, don't they. Home rented, so that stress is gone, except you don't have it as an out any longer. That means it cancels. Have not heard much about daughters lately, so probably not BIG stress there, at least for now. You have not said anything at all about daughter that went with H on trip. I would expect some kind of comment, except it may hurt to speak of it.

Ok, now I have that out of the way, I can leave you alone for a while.
I know you may not get to this for a few days, so I say again, don't worry about that.

As always, just trying to make your life more difficult, and add to your stress level. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

SS

<small>[ August 08, 2003, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi FBOW,

I hope you know that we won't let you get away with little itty bitty posts on Sue's thread.

One of these days you are going to have to come around here and do a proper one on your own thread. We don't want it to get lost. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I often wish I could make you laugh, or that I had great words of wisdom for you to make you feel better, but mostly we just do the best we can with what we have, and tonight, I don't seem to have much.

You still have all those good quailities that we have talked about before, even if you don't feel like it RIGHT NOW.

Your friends know who you are.

SS

FBOW, where are you????

I know you are around, I've seen you lurk, and as SS says, the itty bitty posts on my threads.

By the way, thanks, sometimes alot can be said without a lot of words.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Here is a smile for you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> And some shades if it gets to bright for you

Hi FBOW,

H and I went golfing the other day. H says I didn't do bad for the first time. H gave me some lessons and he and I lived through it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> He was very patient and encouraging. Thought I would share this bit of news.

I hope you are doing better.

Kids start school yet? Mine start on Tuesday. We lost busing due to budget cuts, so I am driving boys and one child from daycare to school, her dad is going to pick up my boys when he picks up his daughter, and drop them off at daycare. I hope no child gets hurt with the loss of busing. They have to cross two busy streets. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Hi Sue, and SS,
I am here, I'm here, just really limp, sleepy and unenergetic.
Nothing new had happened; still I have yet to find ANY activity or available time my H would consider sharing with me.
So I am very happy for you Sue for your enjoyable outing.

My younger D lost school bus service too. They both started school this past Monday. In the mornings it's easy for me or my H to drop her off 30 min before the bell, but afternoons she's been walking almost 2 miles back home, and it's not the safest route as there is a lot of construction on and off along the way.
Hopefully I think friend of my friend agreed to pick her up with her carpool; we'll know for sure next week.

I am doing OK mostly, though I'd love to get some "patience and encouragement", particularly from my H , in almost all areas of my life. I need to be persistant with my job search; or defend my boundaries at current one; stick to my no candy/icecream/excessive bread resolution - which unfortunately did not go well at all this week.

But, my older D was nice, loving and mindful recently, and I could have very happy Labor Day coming <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .
I'll let you know, and yes, I still lurk almost daily. There is a thread by Terrified which I need to rearead from the very beginning as I find lots of advice to her also applicable to me.

Have a good weekend,
FBOW

PS Re Bright smile/shades you sent me; it was so funny as the day I read you post I had really bad headache most of the day, so I left my sunglasses on at work, as it seemed to help a bit, I was imagining you brightly smiling at me....