Hi FBOW,

I am acting according to "if you have nothing nice to say, you better say nothing at all".
So I rarely post.

No change in him means YOU CHANGE YOUR PLAN.

Seriously, though, I have a feeling of being stuck again.

I recommend you call the Harleys or Cerri. Well, let me qualify that. If you are willing to live as you are now for a very long time, if that is more appealing to you that D, then stay as you are. If you want change - for something to happen then change your plan. I think the bottom line if you call is they make something happen. If D happens it would have probably have happened anyway, but they just change the time table. If marriege is fixable, they can help a great deal with that fix.

Mostly I worry that one day you will have had enough and want out no matter what. You are a person, your feelings are important. What do you want? I think one phone call would get you some peace of mind because your options would be explained to you in a much better manner than I am able to do. I also believe it is getting to be past time where a change of plan will do any good. So, yes, I admit I worry. I try not to, but I do even now.

The AD are not working right. I am extremely tired and sleepy on 20mg, mu metabolism is out of whack, have horrendous cravibgs for chocalate and bread, by body feels achy and too tired to reach for a tv remote. So there go my exercise plans. I am afraid to stop taking them as I understand they enable me to function daily.

See your Doctor about adjusting the dose again. It took my W a long time, and she still fiddles with it sometimes. Stress has that effect on many people also. I hope all your troubles of the past two years are not catching up to you. We all need hope to cope. What hopes do you have right now for the future (your future) that are realistic and believeable? I can suggest some if you can't think of any of your own.

I addition my inlaws are coming over for Xmas and want all of to join them for a vacation.

More stress. I wonder if I would just write them a big long letter and explain everything that has happened. That would make it easier.

The anti D's are only good for so much. There are things you can do to reduce the stress you are under, and telling people is one of them. One of the reasons people don't tell is the fear it will make their spouse even worse. If it did, at least you would be free.

Normally although stressful, it would be a good idea, but now I don't know what I to do. Go with the flow? With a H that rarely responds with good morning and never initiates any conversation or outing and often leaves the room/table when I join?
It would be easy to excuse yourself from going if they know the truth about the state of your marriage. Calling for counseling would help you with a plan for all these loose ends.

I am pondering writing him a letter.
Will let you know if I come closer to doing it.

Is this plan B letter? Or just to explain your feelings?

I can't say I know what is best for you. I care, and I want to help, but there are others much better at this than I am. Cerri was rasied
with the same beliefs as you, and she could take your background and goals into account if you called her.

FBOW, I hate to see you stuck. Call for roadside assistance.

SS

Just wanted to let you know I'm still here and reading. Right now, I'm a little too self absorbed with myself to be of any good to anyone else.

Hi Sue, SS , and everybody,

I am still here. Just coasting. Taking time off. I had good weekend visiting my friend out of state, great weather, beautiful foliage etc.

Still unsure how to handle next two months other than I know I am able to coast thru them.

I am a little concerned that my current detachment equals I don't really think my M is salvageable despite the love I have for my H.

See you guys around.
FBOW

I am still here. Just coasting. Taking time off. I had good weekend visiting my friend out of state, great weather, beautiful foliage etc.

You sound better, but detatched. I see you wonder about that below. I wonder too.........

Still unsure how to handle next two months other than I know I am able to coast thru them.

Do you feel you have energy to do some of the other tough things that you want in your life, or do you feel - like coasting, as you said above? That would tell me much about how this has left you emotionally, because a dynamic personality such as FBOW would normally be full of energy this time of year. Do you understand the effect H's attitude has on your persona? Is this taking energy from your life and draining it down a black hole somewhere?

I am a little concerned that my current detachment equals I don't really think my M is salvageable despite the love I have for my H.
I believe if he came to you right now and said he was sorry, and he would try with all his heart, you would be very happy.

I hope your detachment means you won't be hurting so much the next few months.

The thing that bothers me most right now is that I don't have anything to recommend that I believe will help him return to the marriage. I believe in changing tactics when one thing doesn't work, but I worry now, as do you. He has no motivation to change that I can see. I believe he needs one.

You can always wait and see if then end of December brings any change due to outside influences. I always hope it will.

See you guys around.

Probably, I think you are stuck with us now.

I am so glad your daughters are helping you. Is OD getting a car for her next birthday? I always have mixed feelings about that.

You do seem a little happier, I don't know if it was the trip, or that you finally realize you have talent and ability and will do well no matter what. Whatever it is, it looks good on you, keep it up.

SS

<small>[ October 28, 2003, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi SS, and everybody,

An update.
I gave my H more "space" at his request ( as he maintains it is impossible for him to deal with home life when I keep bothering him) for a month.

Well, I used this time to think and write a plan B letter. And I relaxed, visited my friend, did some yardwork and home projects.

H told me few days ago that he is going for a trip again. The place to to get business done but also the place he can easily meet OW.

So I pondered if I should just keep aloof and act like this does not bother me at all or?

I talked to H this morning. I knew he'll try to avoid any talk, but I said I am going to talk, I am not expecting him to answer back and only half an hour. Basically I needed to ask him to end ALL contact with OW and let him know my love and time and patience is running out and I am worried about it. Also, to breach the subject of living apart if this is the only avilable not tried tool to improve our M.

I was calm, yet after few minutes could not stop tears from running.

H was upset, again maintains all is my problem, my suspicions and paranoia drive him away, that he expects me "to make a scene" - i.e. attempt a conversation like today EVERY time he goes away, was rude and angry when I asked him for ceasing all contact.
Seems like he's insulted that I don't trust him. I told him I have no closure for what happened/keeps happening and again asked him to help me to start trusting again. I did not give him my letter.
After about 30 minutes of going back and forth he saying I am crazy and he can't stand it, me explaining my hurt and wanting to get over it but receiving no signs of improvements or actions from him to help me see the progress.
I told him I understand that right know he is so tired of me the only thing he can accept as a goodwill token is me backing off and giving him space. He did agree he noticed the past month of this space.
I told him how hard it is for me to stick to it as I miss him badly, remainded him of all my ideas to spend more time together, and asked him when he feels "safe" - i.e. when I am not "bothering" him, to do something for me, to keep me going,
I thanked him for letting me know about his trip not last minute, and that this is one of several things he could do to alleviate my anxiety.
I told him that the letter I received from OW half a year ago did bring some closure between me and her, as she asked for and I gave her forgiveness, and I am so exhausted that nothing improved between me and H since then.
When I mentioned separation, just as I was afraid, H started accusing me that I want to "throw him out". I just remainded him that he mentioned it first about two months ago, so I was just letting him know that as hard as it is for me if this could help us so be it.
Normally this would be very hurtful conversation, but since I was prepared and really wanted not to get distracted and upset, just to concentrate on one message " I am getting tired after almost two years of stress, I have no closure, my love is draining, I recognize I lost my trust but I do want to regain it but need help from you".
I wish I could say I believe his statements in passing there is no innapropiate contact as of now( I mean EA, OW is long distance) but I don't. He says I keep doing it to myself by snooping, the truth is the events that set me off are not from snooping, they just keep falling in my lap or are kind of public access.

He seem to distinguish events of previous year versus this one, was not willing to talk about stuff from two years ago, even when I used one of those to show him why I have no closure nor explanation for those facts. Mind you it was the FIRST time ever I mentioned specific event since it happened. Still got no answer - and I did not demand one.

I am so glad I was forewarned on the boards about fogtalk, how it hurts, how rational arguments don't work.

Anyway, weirdly I feel OK now - despite two hours crying session I had alone after i left the house when our 30 minutes was over.

I think I can go back to being aloof if it will create better environment for H to do something positive for us.

I just hope I still have enough stamina and love to get me thru. That I keep remembering the guy I married and H from two years ago, not this angry person putting all the blame on me and having no empathy for suffering.

I was able to mention several practical ways I find helpful for me - like getting advance notice for trips, getting physically closer - like spending more time together - even if only for a silent walk, and him moving back upstairs -(made clear just the bed no SF), maybe getting back my wedding ring from him and him wearing his, taking me for his business trip whenever feasible.
There have been no demands fro me nor promises from him.

He did try to twist my words into an ultimatum, as I was afraid, again, I gently and calmly explained that this is what I need and ask for in order to get our M back together, nothing has to be done "my way" or on "my schedule"
as long as I get the feeling there is some will and commitment from him.

I offered a book, it was refused without even mentioning what it was ( SAA), mentioned my counseling as a way that feeds my ideas, I told him I sense counseling together right now makes no sense but did ask him to consider getting ideas from somebody else too.

Sorry guys for the long post. I am not sure if it shows, but I do feel better about myself than a year ago, I am more ready to confront.

BTW I will have an interesting week at work too. Apparently my months long attempts to get attention about benefits for long term employees will bring the top guy to talk to me. Quite frankly I am almost sure the answer is No and No and No, I hope though than logic still plays some role so I am prepared with plenty of arguments, facts, ideas etc.
More as an exercise for me to test my assertivenes in real world.

Please keep me in you prayers.
FBOW


Bottom line - if you wonder if I feel this conversation was a good idea - yes I do. Could I do it better - of course. Did H get my message - I hope so. Will he act on - who knows - I am keeping my words by giving him "time of peace" for approx 3 months - this encompasses a visit from my ILaws. Is it sort of Plan B while still living together - probably not. Could those few months be of any help for us despite NOT being plan B - let's hope so. Am I hurting anybody else by doing what I do now - no, I don't think so. Do I want the stress to be over? You bet. Can I last a little longer? With your help quite possibly. Do I see progress in myself ( plans at work) - yes I do.
And this afternoon he ordered pizza and we watched a rented movie as a family, and he offered me some wine he was having. Also my D got me a rose which she picked for me when she and H were grocery shopping.

Bye now. I'll report back, but this may be few weeks from now, so don't worry about my silence.
Oh, and quitting AD did bring some of my energy back.

Wow, been waiting for you to post!!

I'm a newbie but have been following your thread.

It's been painful just reading about your experience.

I am 3yrs into my first marriage. 2 kids. Both of us had EA's. Mine was *almost* physical. His, I still am not sure about to this day.

Anyways, I'm still getting used to the acronyms and Harley's philosophies, so I suppose I'm not of much help.

I do want to suggest a great book to you though. It helped me to realize that even as the *best* wife I could be, it might not help my marriage. It's called *The Verbally Abusive Relationship* I know that a lot of what your H says is because of the *fog*. Even so, when that is finally lifted you might be surprised to realize that he can control your marriage by blocking, diverting, controlling, manipulating, and gaslighting your conversations. Not to say he is the sole problem of what's taking place because although you have implemented plan A and are starting to organize plan B, you are also implementing plan E, which I call 'enabling' ; this will disable any good effects from both plan A & B. No no, don't get upset with me. It's just what I observed.
I am so proud of you for taking care of yourself and recognizing your strengths!!!
I can't wait to see what life has in store for you. The freedom of self love and compassion (isn't this preached against all the time?) will give you the freedom to love others and the compassion to help others. Take as much time as you need. and if things don't work out I know you can say to yourself 'I did my absolute BEST' and now it's time to move on.
and if it does work out then you can say to yourself, 'I did my absolute BEST' and I am happy with myself and my marriage.
Keep posting.
love and light.

Hello FBOW,
Good to hear from you again.
Sometimes I think you may be the head of a large company - say like Hewlett -Packard and you are just too busy to post.

An update.
I gave my H more "space" at his request ( as he maintains it is impossible for him to deal with home life when I keep bothering him) for a month.

Bothering means that it is difficult to hide the A when you are always around him. - thought you may want a translation.

Well, I used this time to think and write a plan B letter. And I relaxed, visited my friend, did some yard work and home projects.

And, to think and wonder if there was any other possible way to reach him by doing things for him. By changing how you do things, by something else you haven't thought of yet.
Just for the record, I don't think it is about you. I think it is about him.

H told me few days ago that he is going for a trip again. The place to get business done but also the place he can easily meet OW.

He told you up front this time, I wonder if that means anything? I doubt it, because there are no other signs to go along with it.

So I pondered if I should just keep aloof and act like this does not bother me at all or?

I talked to H this morning. I knew he'll try to avoid any talk, but I said I am going to talk, I am not expecting him to answer back and only half an hour. Basically I needed to ask him to end ALL contact with OW and let him know my love and time and patience is running out and I am worried about it. Also, to breach the subject of living apart if this is the only available not tried tool to improve our M.

I was calm, yet after few minutes could not stop tears from running.

If I used swear words, I would be cursing right now. I feel so very bad for you - words fail me.........again.

I think I'll translate this whole block of text.

H was upset, again maintains all is my problem, my suspicions and paranoia drive him away, that he expects me "to make a scene" - i.e. attempt a conversation like today EVERY time he goes away, was rude and angry when I asked him for ceasing all contact.
"I can't believe FBOW has a hard time with me having a mistress, gee whiz, why does it have to bother her so much that I withhold my love from her, and give it to someone else? Just because I'm married to her, doesn't mean I have to act like I am."

Seems like he's insulted that I don't trust him. I told him I have no closure for what happened/keeps happening and again asked him to help me to start trusting again. I did not give him my letter.
"What do you mean you don't trust me? Just because I have an affair, just because I take money that belongs to our family and give to her, just because I never tell you where I am going, or what I am doing, why does that have anything to do with trust? After all, FBOW, I trust you - ah, lets see, you haven't done any of those things though - Can we change the subject? "

That's right, trust is earned. How about this:
"Sure, I'm willing to trust you as soon as you become trustworthy. Write a N/C letter for OW. Tell me where you are at all times. Give full disclosure for the money you transferred and use for other things. Quit hiding when you talk on the phone, give me all your passwords and show me all your accounts. I'll trust you when you start acting like a husband again, spending time with me, talking to me, and showing me love."

When I mentioned separation, just as I was afraid, H started accusing me that I want to "throw him out". I just remainded him that he mentioned it first about two months ago, so I was just letting him know that as hard as it is for me if this could help us so be it.

The mantra of someone that has something to hide:
Never admit anything. Blame everything on the other person. Jump all over everything they say and attack them about it to throw them off guard. Make it sound like they have a problem, so you feel better about what you are doing.


Normally this would be very hurtful conversation, but since I was prepared and really wanted not to get distracted and upset, just to concentrate on one message " I am getting tired after almost two years of stress, I have no closure, my love is draining, I recognize I lost my trust but I do want to regain it but need help from you".
I wish I could say I believe his statements in passing there is no inappropriate contact as of now( I mean EA, OW is long distance) but I don't. He says I keep doing it to myself by snooping, the truth is the events that set me off are not from snooping, they just keep falling in my lap or are kind of public access.

Knowing your history, I believe you. If he wants trust, he can find a way to prove he is no longer in contact. He can come up with a plan - if he really wants trust. What he is really asking for is freedom to do whatever he wants to do with no consequences from you. You were right to tell him that there were, are, and will be consequences.

He seem to distinguish events of previous year versus this one, was not willing to talk about stuff from two years ago, even when I used one of those to show him why I have no closure nor explanation for those facts. Mind you it was the FIRST time ever I mentioned specific event since it happened. Still got no answer - and I did not demand one.
You don't have to demand one, but you are right to point out the reasons for no trust. He gets no trust until he changes what he is doing. Notice he has not apologized, or changed, He just continues to make demands for you to accept his behavior.

I am so glad I was forewarned on the boards about fogtalk, how it hurts, how rational arguments don't work.

Anyway, weirdly I feel OK now - despite two hours crying session I had alone after i left the house when our 30 minutes was over.

You are ignoring the pain and it does go away in part, but isn't it better to treat the problem, not just make some oft he symptoms go away?

I think I can go back to being aloof if it will create better environment for H to do something positive for us.
FBOW, I think R was right. I believe this is called enabling - Plan E. It will create a better environment for H to ignore you, and carry on the A.
What do kids think when their parents leave them alone?
"Yes! ! I am free to do what ever I want !!"

I just hope I still have enough stamina and love to get me thru. That I keep remembering the guy I married and H from two years ago, not this angry person putting all the blame on me and having no empathy for suffering.

I hope you have the strength also. You know I worry about that.

I was able to mention several practical ways I find helpful for me - like getting advance notice for trips, getting physically closer - like spending more time together - even if only for a silent walk, and him moving back upstairs -(made clear just the bed no SF), maybe getting back my wedding ring from him and him wearing his, taking me for his business trip whenever feasible. There have been no demands from me nor promises from him.

I am glad you gave him some things that would help. I worry, but there is the chance he will come back. Oh, I wish he would respond to you.

He did try to twist my words into an ultimatum, as I was afraid, again, I gently and calmly explained that this is what I need and ask for in order to get our M back together, nothing has to be done "my way" or on "my schedule"
as long as I get the feeling there is some will and commitment from him.

Good for you. You are a smart gal. It sounds like you were very well prepared for this one. You told him to put up, or shut up. In other words, you told me you broke it off, now show me you did. I like that.

I offered a book, it was refused without even mentioning what it was ( SAA), mentioned my counseling as a way that feeds my ideas, I told him I sense counseling together right now makes no sense but did ask him to consider getting ideas from somebody else too.
It doesn't look like he is ready for advice yet. However, I am glad you offered it -

Sorry guys for the long post. I am not sure if it shows, but I do feel better about myself than a year ago, I am more ready to confront.

It does show. You did very well this time. He knows you know how things are, and he can't blame you for them. He may argue against you, but he knows.
Long post? What long post? Was that long?

BTW I will have an interesting week at work too. Apparently my months long attempts to get attention about benefits for long term employees will bring the top guy to talk to me. Quite frankly I am almost sure the answer is No and No and No, I hope though than logic still plays some role so I am prepared with plenty of arguments, facts, ideas etc.
More as an exercise for me to test my assertiveness in real world.

I may have to try that sometime, I wonder if I could get more benefits from my boss? I ought to ask her sometime. You may as well ask, and if you keep asking, someday it will pay off.


Bottom line - if you wonder if I feel this conversation was a good idea - yes I do. Could I do it better - of course. Did H get my message - I hope so. Will he act on - who knows - I am keeping my words by giving him "time of peace" for approx. 3 months - this encompasses a visit from my ILaws. Is it sort of Plan B while still living together - probably not. Could those few months be of any help for us despite NOT being plan B - let's hope so. Am I hurting anybody else by doing what I do now - no, I don't think so. Do I want the stress to be over? You bet. Can I last a little longer? With your help quite possibly. Do I see progress in myself ( plans at work) - yes I do.
And this afternoon he ordered pizza and we watched a rented movie as a family, and he offered me some wine he was having. Also my D got me a rose which she picked for me when she and H were grocery shopping.

So, you will leave him alone for three months, and he does what for you? Is this a one sided deal? I think you ought to get the book that R suggests and read it. He seems to have bought himself some time so he won't look so bad to his mother. Am I missing something?

As always, I try to support what you choose to do. Glad you have some energy back. Sorry for the pain. You are a very brave girl - and you did a good job on this last talk. Get that book, learn more, do even better on the next one.

See you next time -

SS

<small>[ November 03, 2003, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Dear R and SS,
thank you for your comments. I will look for the suggested book.
I am not offended at all; I do fear that my patience equals plan E.
It's difficult to explain why I reason more patience is still appropiate. Maybe b/c I've known my H for over 20 years since he was a teenager and I know how sometimes he "has" to be right no matter what's the price or reality, or situations he just won't admit, period, no matter how silly or obviously wrong his stubborness is. Of course my character plays a major role too. And of course you as outsiders are more objective and logically right.

SS, I am not THAT busy, just work plus commute, plus after school taxi duties for my daughters and those few houshold chores that I still tend to when I find energy take practically all my time. My weekend getaway, though very welcome and helpful did rob me of my chore time. I have a little more energy but still need to go to bed early.

SS, H telling me in advance about his trip HAD to be a conscious effort on his part; so I did thank him and told him this is what I need, and more, and often, tiny things, larger things.

I am very aware that this is not "fair", my Taker is bugging me about it occasionally. Let's see what happens next. If he heard me saying that while I'm giving him space, he shouldn't wait for me slipping and the "next scene", just as soon as he feels safer to DO something, even tiny for me. Otherwise we will be stuck "forever". Or quite frankly separation will be imminent - and I am afraid knowing him , this will be quickly followed by filing for DV - probably by me, and I'm afraid open hostility as well.
I could not state my fears like that as this would be readily seen as an ultimatum.
But yes, these are my fears and I do feel I am better equipped now to face them if it comes to it.
Thank you again for checking on me.
Have a pleasant week,
FBOW

I read my post again, and the tone is kind of negative. I did not intend that, but I worry. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ok, is worry the right word? I am concerned for your feelings, and your pain.

You do know him better, and you know how to deal with him. I believe you did much better in this conversation than you have ever done. The reason I say to do the book is that it will give you more ideas on how to discuss things in a way that he may better grasp what he is doing. It may show you how to do that. And I admit, I am more than a little upset by how he treats you. Perhaps I have no right to be, but I am.

I hope you have a very good week. Very good, all week. Did I wish you a good week? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

See you later.

SS

<small>[ November 03, 2003, 11:45 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hey thanks for posting!

You will do everything in your own time, I am just concerned that your spirit is being slowly fizzled out.
The way he speaks to you is not at all respectful.
I come from a Christian background but have to say that equal respect is a MUST if the M is going to work.
If you can't get a copy of the book, I'd be happy to send it to you. Maybe a PO Box?
This M could go either way I just hope at the end of it you will be happy with yourself and not feel that you have to go through all this to be happy.
What kind of hobbies do you enjoy? I think Plan B could really use some 'you' time.
Also why are you scared to ask him to make a decision? he is obviously quite content with keeping the comforts of M, and the excitement of the A. It's up to you whether or not you will play along. I'm just concerned with what's happening to your self esteem. It can't be very uplifting to live like this can it? How good is it for your soul or his? or the OW's?
I hope I don't seem to pushy, it's like watching someone go through something so painful and you can't do anything!!!
Hope you're having a better day...
keep talking!

Hi R and SS,
thanks, I ordered this book from amazon, should get it in few days.

I am having a series of decent days.
Though, still no word from my bosses. Maybe tomorrow, I'm being told. I am so angry I seem to get the disrespectful treatment everywhere...
( oh well , just make it two places let's not say "always" and "never" irresponsibly....)

Will report back, have a good week,
FBOW

You still have your sense of humor intact.

Hmmm, always and never. These used to be two of my favorite words. Now I don't get to use them very often.

There are some times when they are proper to use.

When I say "you are always so beautiful"

Or "I never get tired of looking at you."

I wonder if W gets tired of hearing things like that? Probably not.

So, sometimes it's Ok to use those words.

Let us know how things go at work.

SS

Hi FBOW,

Just have to say, I agree with what has been said.

I know for myself, Plan A, I don't know if I do it right or not. I cannot stop standing up for myself. My H knows better than to tell me to trust him. He did once, my response was, "I gave it to you once, which you destroyed. I will trust you, when and only when you attempt to earn it back. Until then, you will have to live with my distrust". Okay, so, probably and LB, but I also don't believe standing up for yourself and being honest is an LB.

Recently, H and I had a major fight. I was mad about the lack of respect from him, the kids, everything. He left the house early, I had taken princess to dance, H took OS to hockey, dropped OS at grandmas, took MS to hockey, princess wanted to go to grandmas, so I brought her there. H takes MS to grandmas, tells MS "I'm going to take you to grandmas so you don't have to put up with you mother." I wonder why the kids don't respect me. H calls me a couple of times, just to tell me he is going up to his dads. "I'm thinking, sure you are. Your dad does not have a phone, so I could not call there to verify it anyway.". H does not come home until 1AM. He was gone all day. He did call one other time during the day, and I point blank told him, "I am tired of being treated with disrespect by everyone in this house. You want me to stop getting mad, start showing me some respect, especially infront of the kids."

H brought me two roses. However, I am questioning if those roses were because he knew he should, I was not budging if he wanted some peace. (He would have gotten peace, I had not intention of talking to him unless he was nice to me). Or was it because he needed me to stop being mad because he wants to go to Vegas this month and knew for sure he was not making any brownie points with me right now.

So, as you can see, I probably am not one to comment about Plan A, or how to handle situations. In my opinion, I have done pretty well in Plan A, I now think more before I speak.

Hi FBOW!!

Glad to hear you bought the book, isn't Amazon great?

Let me know when you start reading it. It can really be a tool for self esteem, at the same time you have to be careful not to over do it. I was def. involved in a verbally abusive relationship; he called me all types of names and wouldn't answer my questions directly. He used my emotions and biblical convictions to manipulate me to be under his control.
I had to go to bed when he said so, spend time with him when I wanted time to myself, he was jealous of anything that took my time away from him.
I think your hubby has over the years lowered his respect for you. He might not be a naturally agressive person, but now that there is someone else to compare you to, he is being merciless in his assessment of you.
Think about what breaks through fog; what would wake you up if the roles were reversed?
In my M, we both had affairs, what woke me up was realizing my H could find someone else and that he would really leave me forever. I wanted to have my 'fun' but not lose H over it!! See what I mean? Maybe once he sees what a fantasy it is, he will wake up!!!
We are currently in recovery right now; we are doing the emotional needs questionaire and I am moving it along slowly, H is not someone who is interested in stuff like this <i think you said your H wasn't either>, that's only because he's not interested in investing in the M anymore.
So how has it been besides the M? The kids? Friends? Hobbies? You?
keep us posted!

<hugs>

FBOW check in chickie!!
Want to know how you're holding up.
Hope you are taking care of yourself, everything else will fall into place if you do!!
sending good thoughts your way.

Hi R,
thanks for checking on me; I am doing OK, compared to summer time, even great.
My energy levels are up a bit so I am able to take care of my garden and some home improvement/decorating stuff I enjoy.
I am going with the flow mostly, the remainder of this year will be busy for me.
The most important thing I pay attention to is maintaining and improving mu relationship with kids( teenagers - tough) and enjoying my friends which is not that easy as they are long distance.

And making sure my job works for me too,not just me for it.
Will see; I don't post very often as I spend more time doing stuff offline.
I wish you all the best and thank you again for the advice on the book - I received it and hopefully I will be able to learn some practical techniques.
Take care,
FBOW

Hi FBOW,

Let me know your opinion of the book you just received. I've been thinking of getting it for some time now.

Hi Mbers,
quick update and explantion.

I believe my wishful thinkig and deep desire for recovery blinded me.

I have to stay away from the boards to figure my actions in this new reality ( hello Sue!).

I know my boundaries regarding what I can understand and forgive, and continuing lies and deceit definetely is beyound that.
I can accept and understand "falling out of love", soulmates, unfilled and filled needs, indecision and depression, feelings of guilt or anger, or duty.

So I am now off to figuring out what to do next in this new reality.
I am very hurt right now and not ready to share it here yet.
I might vent occasionally and lurk. Please pray for me but do not worry.
FBOW

FBOW,

Take your time and you know we are here for you.

Ditto what Sue said.

SS