Hi TTGIR,<p>I just noticed that my signature line had an error in it... I've been rebuilding since December 2000... not December 90. Just didn't want to give anyone the impression that I'm further along that I really am.<p>I probably should give you a little background first so you'll understand where I'm coming from. My wife had her "1st" affair in our second year of marriage. I found out about it from some friends of mine and was just totally devestated. I was suicidal, didn't eat, couldn't focus on work... you name it, and I've felt it. After about a month of this, I just decided that I 'couldn't take it' anymore, so I just decided to bury everything and 'act' like it never happened. <p>We were both so young then (I was 25 and my wife was 19 at the time) and we didn't have ANYONE to help us or to go for counseling (I was in the military and stationed overseas). So my 'coping' strategy was to just act like it never happened. This was perfect for my wife, since she doesn't like conflict either. But we never addressed the underlying issues of WHY all of this happened.<p>Well, six months later, my wife starts up another affair. I never suspect a thing until right before we are getting ready to come back to the states... I confront my wife and the OM and they both lie to me. I'm still in denial from the "1st" affair, and I want so much to 'believe' that theres nothing going on, that I just accept their lies as the "truth". We came back to the states in 1990 and her affairs ended for good.<p>Our marriage got somewhat better, but I always had a feeling that our marriage lacked intimacy. The anger and frustration from the unprocessed affairs was the reason. My wife tried to deal with the guilt and pain and lies and did a pretty good job with it until December 2000. <p>She confessed four additional affairs (all during the first three years of our marriage). Her confession floored me again and all of the pain and hurt from the "1st" affair and the one that I suspected came back just as strong as the day that I originally found out.<p>However, this time, I didn't feel a sense of hopelessnes. I think that this was due largely in part because for the first time, I started to really try and understand what part I played in creating the conditions in our marriage that would cause my wife to stray. <p>Yes, I know that it's hard to accept, but we BS need to learn how we contributed to the declined state of our marriages. This in NO WAY minimizes the responsibility that the WS must face. They are soley responsible for deciding to enter into an adulterous relationship.<p>It's a sad fact, but most WS initially try to 'gloss over' and 'move on' much quicker than the BS. I've found that for me, it's been a great lesson in patience and in learning to trust in Christ. You can't force your husband to tell you anything... and deep down inside you really would rather have him tell you because HE wants to, rather than because you FORCED him to tell you.<p>Rest easy in the fact that eventually, you will know the truth. It just takes time for the WS to deal with the pain and carnage that they've inflicted on their family.<p>I've found that when I respond in a grateful manner to ANY information that my wife gives me, that it helps her "trust" me that I won't LB her for providing more information. I know that this sounds so WRONG... the WS should be trying to earn our trust, right?<p>Remember, our spouses strayed because they didn't trust us enough in the first place to 'be there' for them. Again, you must look for ACTIONS to back up the words that they are saying to you. It sounds like your husband IS giving you some information, even if it is fragmented... Thank him for the information and realize that it will take some time for him to "tell all". It hurts to not know the truth, but from talking with my wife, she says that living with the lies is just as painful.<p>Your husband MAY decide to just 'move on' and not process this affair, but from what you've told us, I don't think that is the case. He IS talking with you... just not in the way the YOU want him to. Remember that we can't make our spouses do ANYTHING. <p>I don't mean to be harsh, but you keep saying that your husband needs to do this and that he needs to do that. I agree that you need to SEE those changes in order to heal your marriage. Have you thought about what YOU are going to do to heal your marriage? It's going to take BOTH of you to do this.... Yes, he's the one that broke the marriage vows, but a marriage involves two people... you and your husband. Look for way that YOU can change to make your marriage stronger.<p>Sorry this was so long, but I've never "told my story" and I thought that it might help you understand where I'm coming from.<p>I'm praying for you and your husband... Please ask him to e-mail me. I'd love to chat with him. Our PC at home is in the shop so I won't be able to get back on-line until Monday. <p>It sounds like you guys are 'on track' even though it's a painful process for you. Be patient with your husband and with yourself. It's going to take time.<p>Take care,

RIF90

(If the hopelessness is a normal part of the process, how long does it 'normally' last? )<p>Trying, so true about the hopelessness. I still feel that way; however I don&#8217;t necessarily trust that emotion because logically I tell myself I do have hope. However I have bouts of feeling hopeless and in fact have felt that way this week. Maybe someone more experienced will jump in here and shed some light. Because I don&#8217;t get it either.<p>(I asked my H last night, vie an e-mail because he was at work, to do the recovery plan that csue brought up earlier. I asked him first to lay it all out. Either through spoken or written word. We both find it easier to write when the words are difficult to say. All of the info about the A that he has given me has been fragmented, and it has always been me, pulling the truth out of him. I need to know the story. Not all the details. But I need a synopsis. So I can try to understand this. )<p>This is a very hard and painful thing for the WS spouse to do, I hope you will be patient and also realize that he hasn&#8217;t had SH pep talk prior to your request that he do this, so it may be even harder; but good for both of you if he can bring himself to face this.<p>(I'm starting to think I never will understand this.)<p>So true, I don&#8217;t think I will truly understand my H&#8217;s A either; but I am hoping for acceptance and peace after we&#8217;ve done the work of healing.<p>(And that this behavior is completely not understandable because it is so irrational.) <p>There is no logic that applies. My H said something the other day that blew me away. Something like he thought that my response to telling me about the A would be &#8220;no big deal&#8221;, because ????? I don&#8217;t get that. I told SH that H said that this week and where Steve didn&#8217;t have a response to me, I believe he&#8217;s sending my H back to Step #1 of the recovery plan because he still doesn&#8217;t get it yet!<p>(We haven't talked about it yet, btu I asked that we do this no later than tomarrow.)<p>I&#8217;m thinking this may be too tough of an assignment to expect that quickly. Just a suggestion that you may need to be a little more patient. I know it&#8217;s hard and I don&#8217;t suggest this easily because you know I understand your pain.<p>(I hate dragging things out. I've told him all along, I need to know what happend.) <p>Yes you do and the sooner the better per SH and my own experience. I have learned however that doesn&#8217;t mean it can happen that fast!<p>(What happens to him if he either refuses to process this, come to terms with what happend , and move on that way, or if he just can't do that. He's so determined to sweep this under the rug. I need to know he understands what happend, and why, to the best of his ability. I really need that plan. Thw written plan as to how to avoid this in the future. )<p>What happens if you don&#8217;t process this and heal whether you stay together in this marriage or not is that neither one of you will be able to have a healthy relationship with each other or anyone else romantically. Evidenced by the Harley&#8217;s and the many many many posts on this forum that testify to this. There is no easy way out. None<p>(My H is a very charming person. (Part of what attracted me to him) but he doesn't know how or when to turn it off. Most of his friends, all his life, have been female.)<p>My H&#8217;s biggest problem/asset too. According to SH this will be the BIGGEST part of the recovery plan. They haven&#8217;t even reached this point of discussion. This is the scariest part of my situation because my H currently has women falling all over him. Used to drive me crazy, not it makes me sick&#8230;.literally<p>(His dad was around, but distant, and not really involved withhim when he was growing up. He needs some good christian male friends. But he has none. There is no one in his occupation in our area that fits this bill. And he really doesn't want to involve our families....
Which brings me to another question...Back in March, when I first learned of the EA, He 'confided' in his father (who is now born again and a wonderful man)that he was friends with the OW, and that's all they were, and that I was having a major problem with that, and was there anything wrong with what he was doing. Well, of course his dad said no. He knows we're having problems. But I'm pretty sure he thinks it's my insecurity and inability to trust my H. I want him to come clean with his dad. Is it right for me to feel this way?)<p>I have nothing concrete to base this on, but I agree completely with you on this!! His father may be the one most influential person who can help him now. I do imagine it will be difficult for your H to tell him the truth on this; so you may have to be patient again.<p>
(He wants as few people as possible to know about this. I don't want to put it in the local paper )<p>I care about his reputation) but I don't think pretense is healthy. I think his dad should know, at least. Help me out on this one.
Focusing on his EN...Yes, I'm trying to. Problem is, he can't tell me how he wants them met. We did the survey, we talked about it, but every time he talked about a particular need, I would ask him" How can I better meet this need for you." ANd he'd say "You're doing just fine, I can't think of anything else you can do." I need his help to become a master at this.)<p>I think it&#8217;s his guilt speaking here. Also you may be ahead of him on the learning curve. I have studied obsessively since D-Day (3months ago today BTW); H has been struggling to read anything helpful at all. Drives me crazy!!<p>(Is he unwilling to share or am I doing that good of a job?)<p>Overwhelming guilt on his part keeps him from being able to open up.<p>(Not right now. It takes all the strength I have just to get up in the morning and function.)<p>I still periodically find it VERY hard to function. I hope you take care of yourself trying!<p>(I'm not doing all I should, because I feel empty. I feel like is I just smile through the day, even when I'm hurting, and be the perfect little wife, that it's pretense- a lie. Not honest. I'm struggling with making sense of this. SAA says we're to do this. I don't get it.)<p>It is counter-intuitive; but for whatever reason it works. I&#8217;m not perfect at it either and have had some glaring lapses; however all we can do is the best we can.<p>(He needs to prove he's trustworthy, absolutely. I do have access to his e-mail. And the cell phone. But the bills only come once a month. He has other phones at work. He could have other e-mai accounts I know nothing about. Here's where we come back to trust. I know I need to just trust him, because to do anything else would drive me insane. I think I just need to pick a day, and say, "Starting today...I trust him." And then trust God to take care of me no matter what happens. That's what I need to do. Maybe today.... )<p>Sounds good in theory, but not practical and is expecting too much from you. Trust is earned; and with what has happened to us it&#8217;s a slow long journey. Trust will come when you work through the process and I believe the Harley&#8217;s talk about rewriting history. I forget where I read what because I have amassed quite a library and hit all of the books at once based on where I am emotionally at the time!<p>
(Thanks, everybody, for your honesty, support, prayer, and christain love. God is working here. That's so obvious.) <p>Trying, you have touched my heart! I am so proud of how well you are doing. Keep posting, reading (especially because it helps with perspective) and journaling, and even most importantly PRAYING. Also don&#8217;t forget the hormones you&#8217;re suffering through. It&#8217;s what concerns me the most with you! Take care! CSue

Trying, I got my responses out of sequence; here goes from your earlier post!<p>(When you talk about other BS competing for their own spouse, we aren't there. Not technically.)

Trying, you are blessed like me in this way..Thank God!!<p>(But in SAA, Harley says we need to find out what need the other person filled, and learn to fill it. I feel like I have to try to be like her in order for him to be happpy. I know that's probably not what Harley meant, but it's how I feel.)<p>Even at 3 months post d-day, my H is unable to help me out here yet. This one takes time I suppose because it&#8217;s painful for the WS to face the fact that they could/should have handled their lack of EN&#8217;s being met in a less destructive way. Don&#8217;t forget that the cause of the affair is NOT that his EN&#8217;s weren&#8217;t being met; that just simply setup the conditions for an A to occur. According to SH part of the reason for the A is that our WS has a weakness in this regard.<p>
(Besides that, I asked H what need she met, he couldn't say it was any of them. Just that their relationship was free of the worries and difficulties married people have to deal with every day. It was an escape I guess. I don't know if I accept that to be the whole truth of it. )<p>This was pretty good on his part. I hope you thanked him for being able to share this!<p>(I don't know that I have a choice, either. But in a way, I feel like I do have to 'win him back', from her. Make sense? No, not nearly as hard as if they were still in a PA, like some on this site seem to be struggling with. I don't know if I would have the strength to do that. God must have known...)<p>I feel this way too; but I expect it&#8217;s not genuine on my part because it has an ANGER chaser attached to it.<p>(I wonder about continued contact. He said this morning, without me asking, that there has not been any.)<p>I have to say I&#8217;m impressed with this. My H has only been able to do this for me this week!!<p>(I need to put my 'taker' in it's place. I know that will take a tremendous amount of strength and determination, neither of which I have much of right now.)<p>Don&#8217;t forget that TAKER has it&#8217;s place; just within balance of the Giver!<p>( I have never trusted God as I should. I've had a hard time with trust all my life, going back to age 9 (My sister and I were both sexually assaulted by an old man down the street from us. We were too afraid to tell our mom, so she kept making us go see him for 2 years, once a week. It was horrible) Yes, I've dealt with that. But the issue of trust with God has never been fully dealt with. This is a cross road for me. Big time. ANd I know that. I just feel completely powerless, as well I am. Only He can get me through this. I know. But how do I internalize it? How do I make it real? )<p>Trying, having dealt with this tragedy as a child you have acquired some of the courage, strength and survival skills necessary to deal with your H&#8217;s affair. This is probably going to heap guilt on your WH when he realizes that the A brings back this trauma. I wish I had something healing and wise to say here; but I&#8217;m speechless. That is beyond evil what you experienced. I am glad you and your sister have each other.<p>(I don't know how my H would feel about this, but if your H ever wanted to just talk to another WS in the same place....who knows what they could figure out together. I'll check out those other names you mentioned. Like I said, I don't know if my H would even be willing. He knows I go here and write, and I know he'd love to sit and read this, which I wouldn't have a problem with at all, but I wish he'd come on here and find other WS to talk to . He's so reluctant to work through this in his mind, or with me, to figure out the 'why and how' of it. He just wants to move on. ) <p>Misguided wishful thinking on his part. I hope he does some reading to see the benefits of working through this properly.<p>( To me, that's dangerous. Just setting up for more failure, if you fail to fully comprehend where you went wrong the first time around. Perhaps I'm too analytical.)<p>You are right on here.

(My unborn baby....I can't eat much lately, I've lost 30 # since March, 10# since I got pregnant. I just can't eat. People have morning sickness and do the same thing, and their babies are generally ok, so that doesn't concern me too much.)<p>Your angel blissfully exists in peace!<p>(But what is this child coming in to? What will it's family be like? What legacy will it's daddy leave? Will it's mommy be able to forget about the time it was conceived? No, it's not the baby's fault, but will I be stuck there (here)
because of the timeing of everything. I will love this child with all my heart, don't get me wrong. But will it keep the past alive? Or will it bring something beautiful out of something very ugly? I need Gods help to see it that way. Pray for me.)<p>Trying I am betting that you and your H will make something beautiful out of this situation; and your baby will grow up with parents that role model the very best that marriage can be. You have the love, motivation, and support to succeed.<p>(It's a bad day.)
God bless you Trying! CSue

I received 'Torn Asunder' on Friday...am reading it now. Will post again when I'm done...Probably Monday evening, and let you knw what's new.

I read Torn Asunder. There were chaprtes in that book that were difficult to read, especially Chapters 6 and 8. Chapter 6 tells the story better than my H has been able to thus far. We had a 2 hour discussion last night. I hear what you're both saying, but it just doesn't make sense to me that one wouldn't know what they are feeling. I am a very intuitive person, very in touch with me feelings all the time. I'm the kind of person who 'never stops thinking' about whatever- everything. It is so far beyond my ability to understand that you cannot know what's on your mind, that I cannot make that make sense. RIF, you said that he needs time to deal with the pain and carnage he caused. He's had time, before I even knew about the A. He's got two months on me, and I pretty much know how I feel. I'm dealing. I don't like the 'excuse' that he was 'temporarily insane'. I don't buy that arguement. He is an adult. He is mentally stable. He made this decision. No one forced him. He knows what he felt. He knows why he did it. Perhaps he's ashamed to say why, or embarrassed, I don't know, he won't say. But the simple fact of the matter is this: WE cannot move forward until WE are able to sit down and talk about, as Torn Asunder puts it, the message of the A. Until we both know the why and how, neither of us can concentrate on how to make things different and better.
Yes, I'm venting here. Because I don't or can't or shouldn't do it at home.
Last night as we conversed, we were talking about intimacy (not physical) in marriage, and transparency. You know, sharing the intimate details of life and self. He laid there and said he just doesn't see that as important, and that most people he knows (mostly secular couples) don't "do that kind of stuff", My first thought was 'how do you know?' but I know, becuase they all have mundane marriages. I don't want to settle for that. I want more than average. And I am willing to do the work. But his inability to see this kind of intimacy as important frightens me. He said "I've never been that kind of guy." Understand here that it is very hard for him to accept the fact that he may need to change things about himself. His motto has long been "I was this way from the first time we met, and you knew that." I don't try to change him, I know better than that. I know you can't make somebody change. And I don't nag him, either. But if he is unwilling to change, what hope is there?
I know only God can do what needs to be done, and that I just need to trust here. And I will. I'm just venting again.
RIF....What do I need to do? I know there are cracks in my character. I'm far from perfect. I know that. I know exactly what I need to change about me to help my H to feel more safe and fulfilled in our marriage. I need to (ha ha) be more patient (yes, I know. It has never been a great asset for me. It's hereditary)I don't take criticism well. I have very little self confidence. I need to have a more positive outlook. I need to trust God completely, and have more faith, and be willing to let go and let God. I need to persist in the little things, even if my H doesn't, and I need to respect him and submit to him as a christian wife. I know what I have to do. But implementing so many character changes at time of such turmoil is really, really hard. It's hard for me not to blame myself for his bad judgement. If only I had done this or that, maybe he wouldn't have.....<p>What WE need is to become emotionally transparent to eachother. We need to work together to understand and process the A and how WE are going to change. I said last night- we have no marriage. We have to start over. We have to, and get to rebuild. Curse and blessing. Funny how that works. Problem here is that he is not able to be open and emotionally vulnerable with him. I would think that, because he has hurt me in the worst way, and I have stayed with him, and for the most part,been loving and behaved relatively rationally, all things considered, that he would realize that he is free to be open and free to be who he really is without fear of my rejection. I don't know what else I can do to make it safe for him. Wait? How long? And what do I do in the mean time? I can't process and move on.
RIF, thank-you for sharing your story. I feel blessed that I have one one to deal with, and that too much time didn't pass before I found out. You have a rational way of making me look at things, and I appreciate that. Having a male oppinion in all of this is helpful.
I gotta go. The kids are awake!

Hi TTGIR,<p>How was your weekend? I expect that you still feel pretty confused and devestated... Just wanted to let you know that we've (my wife and I) have been praying for you guys, and that it will get better.<p>We had a 2 hour discussion last night. I hear what you're both saying, but it just doesn't make sense to me that one wouldn't know what they are feeling. Hey, that's great news! It took my wife several MONTHS before we could just sit and discuss everything (we still don't discuss it as much as I would like...), You should take this as a VERY positive sign.<p>RIF, you said that he needs time to deal with the pain and carnage he caused. He's had time, before I even knew about the A. He's got two months on me, and I pretty much know how I feel. I'm dealing. I don't like the 'excuse' that he was 'temporarily insane'. I don't buy that arguement. He is an adult. He is mentally stable. He made this decision. No one forced him. He knows what he felt. He knows why he did it. Perhaps he's ashamed to say why, or embarrassed, I don't know, he won't say. But the simple fact of the matter is this: WE cannot move forward until WE are able to sit down and talk about, as Torn Asunder puts it, the message of the A. Until we both know the why and how, neither of us can concentrate on how to make things different and better. Your feelings are RIGHT ON TARGET... It sounds like you've gotten past the initial 'shock' of the A and have moved on to the anger phase. This is a good sign as well. It's not "fair" and it doesn't make any sense, but it's going to take some time for your H to "get it". YOU can not force him. YOU can not change him. As much as you want to, the only person that you can change is YOU. You are correct when you say that you can't move forward until you both sit down and find out the message of his A.<p>Yes, I'm venting here. Because I don't or can't or shouldn't do it at home. You're doing great! I wish that I knew about this site when I was where you guys are... I LB my wife constantly and I know that it hampered our recovery. Keep venting and try not to LB too much. A word of caution here based on my personal experience: Don't hold back in showing your H your anger. He needs to see/feel your anger. You just need to make sure that you convey your anger in a Godly manner...(even Christ got angry at the money changers in the temple). It's OK to tell him how hurt and angry you are... he expects to see that. If you don't, then you will just confuse him (gee, she didn't really get to mad about all of this, so it must be 'ok' with her). <p>I want more than average. And I am willing to do the work. But his inability to see this kind of intimacy as important frightens me. Good for you! I want more than just an 'average' marriage as well! Keep working on yourself and your part of the marriage... It will take time for your H to 'catch up'... but from what you've told us, it does appear that he is at least taking the necessary steps toward the same goal.<p>I don't try to change him, I know better than that. I know you can't make somebody change. And I don't nag him, either. But if he is unwilling to change, what hope is there? You're right again, if he is unwilling to change, then your marriage has little hope. However, from what you are describing to us, It appears that your husband IS willing to change. Remember, your H's first reaction (and most BS for that matter) is to just say "I'm sorry" and then to move on... He is going to be ready to 'move on' much quicker than you are. (maybe some BS can weigh in here and share their perspective on this...) Keep venting!<p>RIF....What do I need to do? I know there are cracks in my character. I'm far from perfect. I know that. I know exactly what I need to change about me to help my H to feel more safe and fulfilled in our marriage. I need to (ha ha) be more patient (yes, I know. It has never been a great asset for me. It's hereditary)I don't take criticism well. I have very little self confidence. I need to have a more positive outlook. I need to trust God completely, and have more faith, and be willing to let go and let God. I need to persist in the little things, even if my H doesn't, and I need to respect him and submit to him as a christian wife. I know what I have to do. But implementing so many character changes at time of such turmoil is really, really hard. It's hard for me not to blame myself for his bad judgement. If only I had done this or that, maybe he wouldn't have..... You are doing exactly what you need to do right now... You are getting in touch with your feelings and you are DEALING with this life altering event in your life. You have chosen the difficult path of rebuilding your marriage. This takes strength and courage. You've already exhibited those attributes by deciding to work on your marriage! You should be proud of yourself for the work that you've done thus far. It is hard working on the changes in our own lives when it seems that our WS are just 'getting over'. Again, don't worry about your spouse... focus on yourself and making yourself better. And by all means, don't listen to Satan's lies that if you had done this or that that this never would have happened. Your husband made a deliberate choice on his own. He didn't consult you and ask you if it would be OK with you for him to have an affair. If he asked you, and you told him that it would be OK, THEN you might be able to blame yourself...<p>I said last night- we have no marriage. We have to start over. You DO have a marriage...and you're right you do have to start over. You are both doing that now... it's just going to take a lot of time and hard work....<p>Problem here is that he is not able to be open and emotionally vulnerable with him. I would think that, because he has hurt me in the worst way, and I have stayed with him, and for the most part,been loving and behaved relatively rationally, all things considered, that he would realize that he is free to be open and free to be who he really is without fear of my rejection. I don't know what else I can do to make it safe for him. Wait? How long? And what do I do in the mean time? I can't process and move on. Yes, it does seem UNFAIR doesn't it? It takes lots of time and hard work. Regarding waiting and for how long... Only YOU can decide that. Are you willing to wait for your husband if it takes 6 months? A year? Two years. When you reach that time are you then willing to move forward with divorce? Again, only YOU can decide what you are willing to do. I felt the exact same way that you do... how long should I wait for my wife?... It's been almost two years since I found out and I can truly say that I'm glad that I stuck with it... My wife and I haven't "arrived" and we still have a lot of work to do, but I can definitley see changes in her... and the changes that I'm seeing make me glad that I was willing to wait...<p>Hang in there... your feelings and thoughts are very similar to what I've experienced and from what other BS have posted here... Keep reading and posting... vent here when you have to... We'll be praying for you...<p>Take care,
RIF90 [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Our next counseling session is June 20th. If he agrees, do you think it is appropriate to have H spend the first 1/2 hour with our counselor, to work on trying to get to those feelings, and how to understand them. I'm not willing to wait too long on this issue, because I honestly don't understand how one cannot know how they felt about something that already occurred. The feelings were there. They already exsisted, you know what they are. RELAY THEM!!!!
So I will give him at least until the 20th, and then we'll take it from there. He did promise to try to work things out 'in his head'.
I get the feeling she is going to contact him this week. Don't know why. I just do. ANd I've never been wrong. Time will tell.
He says he had no thoughts of ever being with her on a long term or married basis. That he had no idea what he was thinking. (how is that possible?) I was looking at the cell phone bill again today. He really did continue the EA until at least mid may. I'll have to wait for the next phone bill to learn the rest. Even after he knew I was pregnant. See, this is the part I think he's holding back on. I think there was physical involvement even after we found out I was pregnant (April 14) ANd I think if that's the case, he's would be REALLY ashamed of that. Perhaps why he won't say anything else at this time. Twice this weekend, I asked him what else there was that he hadn't been upfront about. After long silences, he would say "we've been through all this, do we have to do this again?" I don't ever get a straight answer here. Perhaps here, too. OUr counselor can help with this. Next week seems so far away.....
My anger. He knows I'm angry. And I don't walk around the house with a scowl on my face. The last 3 days I have made a big effort to seem at the very least, content. It's very hard. I feel like I'm pretending to be something that I'm not. But I feel like my state of depressiveness was really bumming him out. WHat's a person to do???? Pretend, or be real? The answer isn't so obvious to me. Harley seems to indicate that we don't do anything to cause our WS to be unhappy. My sadness makes him unhappy. Therefore, I am not allowed free expression of my emotions. He doesn't say, but conveys that I've been sad long enough. Now it's time to move on.
Life is hard.
He goes back to work tonight after 3 days off. I am dreading it. I really hate him going there. She's going to contact him. I know it. It really scares me.
RIF90- I asked him to consider contacting you, and gave him your email address. I hope you hear from him soon.

Hi TTGIR,<p>I know that you are feeling confused and hurt. I'm so sorry that you are going through this. All I can say is try to relax and breath... take one hour at a time... take one day at a time... you WILL get through this and it WILL get better!<p>I'm not a counselor, so I really don't know if allowing your husband the first 1/2 hour is appropriate. I would caution you in putting your hopes in finding all of the answers to your questions in a 1/2 hours session with your MC.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I'm not willing to wait too long on this issue, because I honestly don't understand how one cannot know how they felt about something that already occurred. The feelings were there. They already exsisted, you know what they are. RELAY THEM!!!! <hr></blockquote> This is hard. But again, how long are you willing to wait to get your answers? I'm not about to tell you that the 'timeframe' that you've selected is too short... Only YOU can determin how much you're willing to put up with. I can tell you that it took my wife several MONTHS before we were able to even discuss what happend.... it was sooo very painful for me to have a zillion questions and mental images floating around in my head, but now that we're talking, I know that it was worth the wait. If I'd ended it after only a month and gone for a divorce, I would have lost my precious wife. I know this is hard for you, but please know that what you are feeling right now is totally "NORMAL"...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I get the feeling she is going to contact him this week. Don't know why. I just do. ANd I've never been wrong. Time will tell. <hr></blockquote> Have you talked with your H about your gut feelings? If not, you should. You owe it to yourself to share your TRUE feelings with him... not the feelings that you THINK he wants to see. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> See, this is the part I think he's holding back on. I think there was physical involvement even after we found out I was pregnant (April 14) ANd I think if that's the case, he's would be REALLY ashamed of that. Perhaps why he won't say anything else at this time. Twice this weekend, I asked him what else there was that he hadn't been upfront about. After long silences, he would say "we've been through all this, do we have to do this again?" I don't ever get a straight answer here.<hr></blockquote> He might have had a PA with the OW. Are you prepared to deal with that if he does 'come clean' and tells you the truth? <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>It's very hard. I feel like I'm pretending to be something that I'm not. But I feel like my state of depressiveness was really bumming him out. WHat's a person to do???? Pretend, or be real? The answer isn't so obvious to me. Harley seems to indicate that we don't do anything to cause our WS to be unhappy. My sadness makes him unhappy. Therefore, I am not allowed free expression of my emotions. He doesn't say, but conveys that I've been sad long enough. Now it's time to move on. <hr></blockquote> For me, its best to be honest with my feelings... If I'm feeling 'down', I tell my wife... Your husband owns his own feelings. You aren't responsible for 'bumming him out'... he's the one that strayed. I'm not saying that you should LB him at every opportunity (boy, I've been there and done that!), but I don't think it's healthy for you to supress your feelings just to keep your H happy.<p>I still haven't heard from him... I'd love to 'talk' with him. Please let him know that I'm not going to 'beat him up' or anything... my good friend is also a WS and I've really learned alot from talking with him.<p>We'll be praying for you. Keep venting and know that what you are feeling is 'normal'.<p>Take care,
RIF90

I don't know what to say about how long I am willing to wait. Fact is, we cannot move past this until he is able to share these feelings and talk about why this happend. I feel like he's just putting me off some times. I guess I'll give him a month to come up with something.
There was sex. He admits to one time back in late Jan or earlt Feb(He can't seem to remember) and then there was ongoing oral sex from that point up until late March or early April. That is what he admits to. He seems to have no idea when things happend. This, too, is hard for me to understand. How can you not remember when you did something so significant. Time frame and on going sexual activity does matter to me especially what happend after the end of March. <p>The kids are crabby. Not much time now. I will post more later.....

Hi TTGIR,<p>Good to hear from you again. You sound a bit calmer this morning! How did it go last night with your H returning to work? Did you talk with him about your fears of him contacting the OW?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I don't know what to say about how long I am willing to wait. Fact is, we cannot move past this until he is able to share these feelings and talk about why this happend. I feel like he's just putting me off some times. I guess I'll give him a month to come up with something.<hr></blockquote> Your H sounds just like my wife. It's taken her a little over a year and a half and she'd just now able to sit down and talk with me about her affairs. It's actually harder for us since all of her affairs happened over 12 years ago.... I've gotten to the point that I really do appreciate ANY information that she shares with me. I was exactly like you when I first 'found out' in Dec 00... I wanted to "fix" everything right then and didn't want to wait an hour, or a day, or a week, or a month... <p>We did have a slight 'detour' in our recovery, but looking back, I now see that it was really a blessing. My Army Reserve unit was activated last year and I spent 7 months in Kosovo. We weren't able to 'process' anything and I basically learned that no matter how much I wanted her to 'work on us'... that I couldn't make her do anything. It was hard being away from home and not being able to "fix" our marriage, but now I realize, that I needed to "fix" myself first.<p>It will take time for your husband to learn to communicate his frustrations and hurt to you... just as it will take time for you to learn to trust him again. Be sure to thank your husband when he shares ANY bit of information with you... <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>There was sex. He admits to one time back in late Jan or earlt Feb(He can't seem to remember) and then there was ongoing oral sex from that point up until late March or early April. That is what he admits to. He seems to have no idea when things happend. This, too, is hard for me to understand. How can you not remember when you did something so significant. Time frame and on going sexual activity does matter to me especially what happend after the end of March. <hr></blockquote> I know that you want to know 'everything' RIGHT NOW, but you need to realize that as absurd as it sounds, your H may not know what happened at this moment. It will take him some time to process what happened and it will take time for him to realize just how much he's hurt you. Once he realizes the pain that he's caused, I think you'll see a change in his attitude. Again, thank him when he shares any information with you. <p>As a guy, I was more interested in the "physical" type questions... and it totally blew me away when my wife said that she couldn't remember certain "details"... I mean really, how can you be intimate with someone and not know certain physical characteristics?... Anyway, I realized that I was starting to get to obsessed with little details that really didn't matter. As time goes on and your H answers more of your questions, I think that you will find that your need to question him will decrease.<p>For me, it was helpful to draw out a timeline with dates... that way I was able to 'fill in the blanks' as my wife shared more information with me. If you choose to do this, please DON'T use this as a weapon to beat your H up with... Remember, what you and your H are going through is just as much about YOU as it is him.<p>You seem to be doing much better... I'm glad that you're willing to wait a month. I know how much strength and self control it's taken for you to "give" him this extra month. You should give yourself a great big pat on the back... you're doing great!!! Keep working on yourself and the things that you can control. <p>Take care,
RIF90

I was physically ill for the 2 hours before he left, and until I went to bed. Then I couldn't sleep, so I called him. We talked for about 15 minutes, then my cordless phone battery died, and we have no other phone up stairs, so that was it. I was awake a lot throughout the night. Sleep does not come easy these days, and being pregnant just zaps the energy right out of me. He said he would call me if she came to see him or called, no matter what time it was. He never called back last night. He didn't say anything this morning.
We've had a number of 2-3 hour talks late into the night on his nights off. He doesn't like to talk about the A, but he will, to a certain point, then he shuts down. He will talk about the stuff I already know. But he will not go beyond that.
I have a basic idea about a time line. I created it before I even knew about the physical involvement, and have filled things in since that time. The thing is his memory is so 'poor', the 'facts' keep changing and the time line keeps shifting. I can't see why he would have any desire to wait with telling me the rest of the story. I would think that prolonging things that way is worse. He's the one that really wants to pick up and move on, yet ironically, he won't or can't do what's needed to make that happen. Go figure....
I do thank him when he is honest and shares things with me. He knows how much I value the truth. And he knows how much I appreciate his efforts.
Initially, he would not give many details, and I didn't want too many. The pictures I have in my mind are already too graphic. I wanted to know who bought the condoms, where it happend, and how long he knew he was going to have sex with her before it happend. I needed to know how much forethought went into this on his part. (Speaks to his state of mind at the time). She bought them, it was at her sister's house, and he went there, never intending to have sex, "it just happend" (puke). I don't know that I want to know anything else about the encounter, I just want to know how many times it happend, and how much sexual activity took place after he knew that I knew that he was inappropriately involved with her (March 20). He made promises at that point, and I know in my heart that he did have physical contact after that. I need to know what and how many times after that. And I need to know if anything happend after April 22, the second disclosure of an ongoing "friendship", and then I was pregnant. I don't need much, just the basics.
Honestly, I'm having a down day today. I'm overwhelmed again today, by the "how could he do this to me?". You don't do something like this to someone you loved. He hated me when he had sex with her. And now he tells me several times a day how much he loves me. This is really difficult to process. How can hate and love be so close together and so strong?
My son wants to go outside and play in the humidity. I best go for now....

Hi TTGIR,<p>Again, from the sound of things, it appears that your H is making an effort to try and talk with you. I'd take that as a VERY positive step in the right direction. I know that it may seem that he is being evasive and 'forgetful'...and he probably is... but at least he's making an effort. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>The thing is his memory is so 'poor', the 'facts' keep changing and the time line keeps shifting. I can't see why he would have any desire to wait with telling me the rest of the story.<hr></blockquote> It will take time for him to get 'comfortable' enough to be totally honest and open with you. I'd venture to guess that he DOES realize just how much he's hurt you and he is ashamed of himself. Another 'common' reason for not being totally honest is that the WS will sometime feel that they have to 'protect' the BS's feelings. There's nothing worse than feeling that you're being lied to...and when the WS tries to 'protect' the BS feelings, it just makes things worse... [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] I know how you're feeling... Hang in there. It's going to take a lot of time.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>He's the one that really wants to pick up and move on, yet ironically, he won't or can't do what's needed to make that happen. Go figure....<hr></blockquote> Remember what I said in my first reply to you? Your H is probably going to want to 'move on' much quicker than you do. This is 'normal' and you should expect it. My wife and I are at the 18 month mark in our recovery and she still wants to 'move on' much faster than I do. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I do thank him when he is honest and shares things with me. He knows how much I value the truth. And he knows how much I appreciate his efforts.<hr></blockquote> Good for you!!! There's no need to smother him with your thanks... a simple 'thank you for providing that information' will do. Again, watch what he DOES and be wary of what he SAYS. You've been lied to and it's important to guard your heart as much as you can. For me, I would thank my wife for providing me with information, then I would 'process' her answers with what I already knew... Sometimes I would have more questions, if so, I'd ask her. There were times that her answers just didn't 'seem right' to me. I'm sad to say that my wife outright lied to me on several occasions. She's since told me that she was just trying to 'keep me from hurting' more than I already was... Grrrrrr. I would expect that your H will do the same. Doesn't make it right, but it's better to know what to expect up front than to have your "trust" broken again during this process.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I needed to know how much forethought went into this on his part. (Speaks to his state of mind at the time). <hr></blockquote> I completely understand your reasoning here. I to have tried to piece together where she was, where I was, where we were, and how the OM all fit together... Only you can decide when you've gotten 'enough' information. I would say that eventually you will reach a point where you still have questions, but will NOT feel the pressing need to get an answer. For me, this is happening right now because I'm seeing my wife make a sincere effort to work on our marriage over a long period of time. I hate to keep saying this, but it's just going to take a lot of time.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>He made promises at that point, and I know in my heart that he did have physical contact after that. I need to know what and how many times after that. And I need to know if anything happend after April 22, the second disclosure of an ongoing "friendship", and then I was pregnant. I don't need much, just the basics.<hr></blockquote> Why don't you try this. Assume that everything that you suspect is correct. Your H did make promises to you, then lied. He did continue contact after April 22. He did the absolute EXACT things that you suspect him of doing.... Now, ask yourself this question: "Do I still want to remain in this marriage and continue to work through this?" If your answer is Yes, then just assume that he did everything that you suspect and try to be patient... The truth will always come out in the end. If your answer is No, then you should seriously consider separating/divorcing him. <p>I hope that you don't think that I'm being mean and un-caring... I just want you to think about this process and understand that YOU are in control now. YOU have the 'right' to end your marriage because of your H's adultery...just as YOU have the right to decide to stay in your marriage and work on it along with your H. <p>I wish that there was some 'magic wand' that we could wave over our marriages and make the hurt go away... but there isn't. You've both been devestated by this and its going to take a lot of hard work by both of you to make this into the marriage that God intended for it to be. It sounds like you are both doing as well as can be expected under your present circumstances... I can tell from your posts that you are handling this MUCH BETTER than I did when we were where you guys are.... <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I'm overwhelmed again today, by the "how could he do this to me?". You don't do something like this to someone you loved. He hated me when he had sex with her.<hr></blockquote><p>I'm so sorry that you are feeling overwhelmed... My wife has told me that she didn't 'hate' me when she was with the OM... that she just basically 'didn't think about me'... It hurts to think that our spouses could just 'forget' about us, but that's usually what happens when they are with the OP... remember, the WS is 'escaping' with the OP because they are getting a need met...not because they hate their spouse. Not sure if this makes any sense... <p>Hey, I hope you have a better day tomorrow... Let us know how you are doing. And please tell your H that I'd love to talk with him.<p>Take care,
RIF90

Our internet server was down yesterday...a lot has happend.
I wrote him a letter, outlieing the things that I neeeded to know yet (at this point) and asked for a reply of some sort in the next month.
He did part of it yesterday. He gave me all the facts.
Here's how things changed....
He knew he had feelings in early January
First kiss-late January.
First sex- February. Sex occurred 5-6 times.
To the best of his knowledge, last sex was the week before I found out I was pregnent.
Last oral sex was mid May, along with the last kiss.
So now I have a whole new affair to process. Everything is different now. "Once" is better than many times.
He also admitted to more lies, and he told me that it was only May 24th that he told her anything about me knowing, and that it was only then that it was 'over' for them.
I thanked him for his honesty. But I am devistated. This is far more serious than I though. His withdrawl is still very fresh. Much more so than I thought.
It changes things for me. Maybe it shouldn't but it does.
I can't eat. I can't sleep. I can't think straight. I feel like I'm hanging somewhere outside of my body. And I'm watching myself be destroyed by the only man I ever really loved.
Should it change anything. I mean, I knew before he told me, right?
I told him that it was my choice to stay or go. That each choice seemed equally difficult. But for now I choose to stay. I told him I will not, and cannot focus on our marriage right now, and that I will focus on myself. First-getting through each day, and then trying to feel like a person again. After that- becoming the person God wants me to be. If he's still around after that, then we can see if we can have any kind of marriage.
He is very, very sorry. Other women on this site would give their limbs for just some of the remorse he shows. But that doesn't erase my pain. I believe him when he says he is sorry. But I am so afraid to trust him again. There are too many lies, and so much other damage. How do I get past this?
Time, you say. *sigh* Every second is an eternity.
He was pretty quiet when he got home this morning (4am). I think he's weary of my sorrow. I think he wants to escape this whole thing. He doesn't say. He's trying to be strong, I think. I don't know. He hasn't shown any emotion since the 'revelation'.
Personal question...How long before you could make love to your spouse again?
We have since the and of May, but now...why does it all seem so different? How can I ever trust him with my body again? KNowing that he continued in this for so long? How do I get past that in the bedroom?
My day care kid is here now...gotta go. I will post again this evening.

Hi TTGIR,<p>I'm so sorry that you are hurting so much right now. I know exactly how you are feeling. From what you've told us and from my own experience, I can honestly say that as long as you and your H continue to work through this that it WILL get better. <p>I know how devestating it is to learn of any 'new' information. On one hand you hope that hes told you 'everything'...while at the same time your gut tells you that there HAS to be more. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>So now I have a whole new affair to process. Everything is different now. "Once" is better than many times.<hr></blockquote> This is so very true. I want you to think about something... would you have rather 'found out' about this new information now, or 5-10 years later? I'm not minimizing your devistated feelings... Yes, this new information hurts. Yes, you are devistated by the new revelations. Yes, this is much worse than "once". I just want you to take a second to realize what a "gift" your H has given you. I had to wait 12 years to finally get the 'truth' from my wife.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I thanked him for his honesty. But I am devistated. This is far more serious than I though. His withdrawl is still very fresh. Much more so than I thought. <hr></blockquote> I understand your feelings. Just the fact that your H is telling you all of this so soon after ending contact is really encouraging!!! I know that the news was devistating to you, but please realize what a tremendous gift your husband is giving you by being so open with you so soon after ending contact. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>It changes things for me. Maybe it shouldn't but it does. I can't eat. I can't sleep. I can't think straight. I feel like I'm hanging somewhere outside of my body. And I'm watching myself be destroyed by the only man I ever really loved. <hr></blockquote> I'm going to be blunt. Your marriage has changed FOREVER. You no longer have the 'blind' trust that you once had for your H. You will forever remember what happend... I'm so sorry that you are having to go through this.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Should it change anything. I mean, I knew before he told me, right? <hr></blockquote> I think you know the answer to your own question. No it really doesn't change the fact that you both are going to have to work through this. Yes, there is more pain, but it doesn't change the fact that you are still committed to working on your marriage, right?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>But for now I choose to stay. I told him I will not, and cannot focus on our marriage right now, and that I will focus on myself. First-getting through each day, and then trying to feel like a person again. After that- becoming the person God wants me to be. If he's still around after that, then we can see if we can have any kind of marriage. <hr></blockquote> Good for you! I really do believe that your H will 'still be around'. I think you realize that as well, but I understand the need to 'talk' through all of this.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>He is very, very sorry. Other women on this site would give their limbs for just some of the remorse he shows. But that doesn't erase my pain. I believe him when he says he is sorry. But I am so afraid to trust him again. There are too many lies, and so much other damage. How do I get past this?<hr></blockquote> TTGIR, you are in the process of getting past this. Each day that you wake up and 'face' this, you are getting past it. I'm glad to see that you aren't running away from it as I did, or burying everything like I did... You are facing this head on in a confident, Godly way. I know that it probably doesn't feel like that to you, but from what you've told us, you are right on track.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Personal question...How long before you could make love to your spouse again? We have since the end of May, but now...why does it all seem so different? How can I ever trust him with my body again? KNowing that he continued in this for so long? How do I get past that in the bedroom?<hr></blockquote> I can only answer this from a male BS point of view... For me, I was able to be intimate with my wife immediately after finding out. Looking back at that time, I guess my main desire was to 'reestablish' my place as her husband. There never has been a time where I did NOT want to be intimate with my wife. I'm sure that it's different for a female BS, so hopefully someone else can address your question better than I have...<p>Again, I'm sorry for all of the pain that you're feeling right now. Hang in there.... we'll be praying for you and your H.<p>Take care,
RIF90

Getting bits and pieces of the truth over a long period of time is like dying a thousand deaths. So yes, I am thankful to know the truth now. I realize how hard this was for him. We talkde briefly this morning before he went to work. He had no idea that the real truth would hit me so hard. He doesn't regret sharing it. Sut my reaction is bothering him. He's distant and quiet, and makes no attempt at physical contact. Yesterday he must have said 'I love you' 20 times. Today I haven't heard it once. <p>Am I still committed to working on this marriage. Yes, I suppose I am. But right now, I really feel it's a long shot. I don't know how I can ever trust him again, at all. How do I know he's being honest with me now? He lied about ending it with her before. How do I know this time he's for real? How can I ever trust anything he says again? How do you have a good marriage without trust? If I don't trust him, he won't stick around. He wouldn't want to live that way. But for him to expect me to be able to trust him, and he does- that's really asking a lot. Why do I have to do all the giving? I just don't know if I have it in me.<p>He doesn't like the fact that I haev decided to focus on me right now. That's upset him. I feel like no matter what I do here, it's going to be the wrong thing. If I try to work on our marriage and myself right now, both will be half hearted attempts, and neither will end up very good. If I focus on me, I really think he will feel allienated, and either quit on our marriage, or end up back with her. If I only focus on the marriage- how can I? I feel empty as a person. I have nothing to give at this point. No matter what I do, it won't be the right thing. I need a miracle here. <p>I understand your point of view, reestablishing yourself as her husband. That makes sense from a male perspective. But I feel like it's a competition. He said he enjoyed being with his lover. He said that's why he went back as many times as he did. The last time, he did her, mostly because he was angry at me (I caught him in a lie, we had a big fight, I 'left' for an hour, we stayed up til 2am working things out. he was still mad at me a few days later, and went to her) He enjoyed it. I did not need to know that. Or at least I didn't neeed to hear him say it. So I have to compete with her memory. How do I know he's not thinking 'I wish my wife could do it like (lover) could...' Besides all that, the intimacy is ruined. What was special to us is no longer our. He gave it to someone else. The thought is overwhelming to me. This very precious thing between us, and he gave it away. And we will never, ever have it back.
I will not compete with her. But I'm afraid that if I don't do it, he'll go back to her for it. He already left, what's to stop him now? How would I ever know?
How can I ever trust this man again?<p>I'm really confused and angry and not sure what way is the right way. Nothing makes sense. Nothing is clear.
I appreciate your encouragement. I'm sorry for being so negative. I am just having a really hard time finding anything positive in all of this.
I hate my life.

Hi TTGIR,<p>I wish that there was some way to take away your pain... I'm so sorry that you are hurting right now. Please know that my wife and I are praying for you both.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>He had no idea that the real truth would hit me so hard. He doesn't regret sharing it. Sut my reaction is bothering him. He's distant and quiet, and makes no attempt at physical contact. Yesterday he must have said 'I love you' 20 times. Today I haven't heard it once.<hr></blockquote> I expect that your H is going through the same rollercoaster ride with his emotions as you are.... thus the "I love you's" one day and none the next... This is 'normal' and it does show that he is really 'dealing' with his feelings. The fact that he has been so open with you has exerted a tremendous toll on him (and you as well).<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Am I still committed to working on this marriage. Yes, I suppose I am. But right now, I really feel it's a long shot. I don't know how I can ever trust him again, at all. How do I know he's being honest with me now? He lied about ending it with her before. How do I know this time he's for real? How can I ever trust anything he says again?<hr></blockquote> TTGIR, it's OK to feel that your marriage is a 'long shot' (I'm assuming that you mean that it's a long shot that your marriage will get better). Of course you don't know right now if you can trust him. He's lied to you and you should be very careful in believing what he tells you... Remember to guard your heart. As your H continues to show remorse and continues to work on restoring the marriage, I think that you'll find that your trust will return. As for 'knowing if he's for real'... For me it has just been a 'gut' feeling... it took a long time for me to get that 'gut' feeling though.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>How do you have a good marriage without trust? If I don't trust him, he won't stick around. He wouldn't want to live that way. But for him to expect me to be able to trust him, and he does- that's really asking a lot. Why do I have to do all the giving? I just don't know if I have it in me.<hr></blockquote> You don't have a good marriage without trust. That is why you are both working on rebuilding that trust. My loss of trust is one thing that has really been hard for my wife. She realizes that she must 'earn' my trust again. It took a while for her to ever get to that point. It is allot for the WS to expect us to trust them... that is why I keep saying to acknowledge what they say, then WATCH their actions... If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then watch it closely... if it still looks like a duck and quacks like a duck after several weeks/months, then you can be pretty sure that it's a duck. But for now, you can't be sure that it's really a duck until you see it over a period of time. I know that it seems like you are doing all of the giving. Believe me, from what you are telling us, your husband is giving as well. And yes, I do believe that you 'have it in you'... or else you wouldn't be here. You are really doing well given your circumstances...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>He doesn't like the fact that I haev decided to focus on me right now. That's upset him. I feel like no matter what I do here, it's going to be the wrong thing. <hr></blockquote> I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but that's just too bad for your H. I don't think that YOU liked the fact that your H decided to focus on himself when he was with the OW. I'm not saying that you should go out of your way to be mean to your H, just that he needs to understand that he hurt you and if you need time to work on you, then he's just going to have to live with that... you lived with his A...AND you chose to remain in the marriage. I don't think its too much to ask for him to give you a little time to sort through all of your feelings right now.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>But I feel like it's a competition. He said he enjoyed being with his lover. He said that's why he went back as many times as he did. ....I did not need to know that. Or at least I didn't neeed to hear him say it. So I have to compete with her memory. How do I know he's not thinking 'I wish my wife could do it like (lover) could...' Besides all that, the intimacy is ruined.<hr></blockquote> I know this hurts. Would you feel better if he lied to you and said "I didn't enjoy having sex with her, but I just kept going back 5-6 times"? Of course you wouldn't. You would probably suspect that he was lying to you. It hurts to think that our spouses could receive pleasure/SF from another person... but that is what happens in an A. It hurts. It stinks. And you are so very right when you say that the intimacy is ruined. It takes time to rebuild the intimacy that was lost. I can say that for me and my wife, we are more intimate (not just physically) than we ever were before the A's.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>What was special to us is no longer our. He gave it to someone else. The thought is overwhelming to me. This very precious thing between us, and he gave it away. And we will never, ever have it back. <hr></blockquote> It is such an overwhelming feeling... but try not to dwell on it. Instead, focus on rebuilding the intimacy in your marriage that will be even better than what you had before the A. It can be done, but it takes lots of hard work and lots of time.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I will not compete with her. But I'm afraid that if I don't do it, he'll go back to her for it. He already left, what's to stop him now? How would I ever know? How can I ever trust this man again?<hr></blockquote> You have already won. Your H is with you. You are in the process of learning to trust your H... remember it's going to take time.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I'm really confused and angry and not sure what way is the right way. Nothing makes sense. Nothing is clear. I appreciate your encouragement. I'm sorry for being so negative. I am just having a really hard time finding anything positive in all of this.
I hate my life. <hr></blockquote> Please know that what you are feeling/experiencing right now is all 'normal'... You are doing a super job with all of this. You don't have to appologize for being 'so negative'. Your feelings are completely understandable. I do hope that you don't hate your life. I can understand how you might 'hate' your situation right now, but I hope that you really didn't mean that you hate your life. <p>If you are feeling suicidal, please, by all means TALK with someone. Life is such a precious gift from God and NOTHING in this world is worth killing yourself over. If you want to talk with my wife, you can e-mail her at RIF90@msn.com We are both praying for you and your husband and she will gladly talk with you.<p>Hang in there and let us know how you're doing...<p>RIF90

I heard our baby's heart beat today. It made me cry. Strangely, and (surprise) miraculously, the beautiful rhythym of that sound brought me an unexpected and unexplainable peace. This child is a gift, in so many ways. <p>Yes, I'm still hurting. I still have questions. But all I could think was "For you created my inmost being, you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know this full well....All of the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be....Search me, O God, and know my anxious heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts. See if there is any offensive way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting" Ps 139<p>God gave me a dose of much needed perspective. <p>I'm no saint. I have a long way to go in my walk with my Lord. But today He showed me that I need to take my eyes off of my circumstances, and put them on Him. <p>RIF90, my husband's email is hpd4442@yahoo.com .I think it would be easier for him if you contacted him first. Feel free, but don't feel obligated.
Thank-you so much for your prayers and perspective. I very much appreciate them! I will pray for you as well.
The road ahead is still going to be a tough one. But I'll try not to look at the road so much anymore, and just focus on the prize.

Hi TTGIR,<p>I'm so happy for you! We've got three beautiful girls... they are such a joy to us both. What a wonderful verse... Isn't it great how He always takes care of us when we need Him the most?<p>I sent your H an e-mail... I'm looking forward to 'talking' with him.<p>Thank you for your prayers... we really appreciate them! Keep your eyes on Him and you and your H will get through this.<p>Take care,
RIF90 [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

I tried to share my new found peace and the experience that led to it with my husband last night. Since he's working both jobs yesterday and today, there is little time to talk. So I poured out my heart on paper, and left the letter for him to find when he got home at 3:30am.
He came up stairs, and laid stiffly in the bed, and didn't say a word. I asked him how his night was. "Fine." "We just screwed around." (Ok, that was a poor choice of words, but I bit my tough and didn't say anything) More silence, and then he said, "Well, I'm tired. Goodnight." and rolled over the other way.
How many times does he have to break my heart before he will be satisfied? I really don't believe he is that shallow or that stupid, or that insensitive. So my next thought is this- he's seeing her again.
So I asked him- "Did you find my letter?"
"Yep."
In the letter I conveyed similar sentiments as were in my previous post, but more personally directed to him.
More silence.
I wanted to cry.
I asked him if he had any feelings about my letter.
I can't remember exactly what he said, but he indicated that he was more interested in sleep.
I was awake for the rest of the night.
This morning, I went to garage sales, so I was gone when he got up. He's gone all day, and will be gone all night. Same tomarrow.
I know he's busy, but I feel that 'we' should be at the top of both of our priority lists, and that I am still at the bottom of his. He is emtionally cold and distant since his revelation of the real truth the other day, and he has shown me no affection.
I'm really concerned that my reaction- being so deeply hurt by the truth ( I didn't yell or scream or throw anything, or say anything nasty. I just cried, and was really bummed out the rest of that day and most of the next) I think he's gone back to her. I left him another note this morning before I left, asking if this was the case, and if not, why was he so distant. I have had no response from him yet. <p>I'm really sad about htis. If he is so closed to the topic of spirituality and renewal in Christ, what is the best I can hope for? I know God can change his heart. ONly He can. But how do I deal with him shutting me out, and down, spiritually and emotionally. He still won't talk about his feelings. I'm not talking about the ones related to the affair, I'm talking about his feelings right now- since Wednesday anyway. He's shut me out.
And I'm afraid of what that means.
I really want to involve our fathers in this. No one, outside of my husband, me, and his lover know about this (I guess her parents know, too.)
But he will not 'allow' (his words) me to tell anyone else. He has a hard enough time with me talking here. I feel it's important for accountability, and for support, that some people who know us well, know what's going on. Is there a point in his coldness and closed mindedness, where I can say 'enough is enough', and just tell them. Not in a bashing, damaging way, but in a loving way that asks for their love and forgiveness, and support for him. My motives in telling others are completely pure. I really think we both need this support. And the help.
I'm afraid by his response(or rather lack of) to me. I don't know what else to do.
Time, sure.
Prayer, yep.
I just need something from him now.

Hi TTGIR,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I tried to share my new found peace and the experience that led to it with my husband last night. Since he's working both jobs yesterday and today, there is little time to talk. So I poured out my heart on paper, and left the letter for him to find when he got home at 3:30am.<hr></blockquote> I'm sorry that you were dissapointed in your husband's reaction to your letter. Remember that you can't change a thing that your husband does, feels, or says... Nothing wrong with writting a letter and giving it to your H... just don't set yourself up to be dissapointed when he doesn't 'respond/react' like YOU think he should/YOU would respond.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>He came up stairs, and laid stiffly in the bed, and didn't say a word. I asked him how his night was. "Fine." "We just screwed around." (Ok, that was a poor choice of words, but I bit my tough and didn't say anything) More silence, and then he said, "Well, I'm tired. Goodnight." and rolled over the other way. <hr></blockquote> I too have a hard time initiating conversation with my wife when I'm depressed/sad/angry/etc... Realize that you are at a point in your recovery where ANY little thing will cause you to worry about the A. Please understand that I'm not discounting your feelings, I'm just saying that you are very sensitive to the A and this caused you more pain.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>In the letter I conveyed similar sentiments as were in my previous post, but more personally directed to him. More silence. I wanted to cry. I asked him if he had any feelings about my letter. I can't remember exactly what he said, but he indicated that he was more interested in sleep. I was awake for the rest of the night.<hr></blockquote> I'm so sorry that you are hurting over this... but please understand that this is a 'normal' reaction on his part... My wife is just now getting to the point that we can discuss the past A's and it's been 18 months since D-day. I expect that he is starting to deal with the guilt and shame of what he's done not to mention the pain that he's caused you. It will take time for him to come around.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I know he's busy, but I feel that 'we' should be at the top of both of our priority lists, and that I am still at the bottom of his. He is emtionally cold and distant since his revelation of the real truth the other day, and he has shown me no affection.<hr></blockquote> Again, this is very typical... it will take time for him to work through this with you... Have you shown him any affection? Not saying that you should if you don't feel like it, but sometimes it takes one spouse to initiate before the other will respond...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I'm really concerned that my reaction- being so deeply hurt by the truth ( I didn't yell or scream or throw anything, or say anything nasty. I just cried, and was really bummed out the rest of that day and most of the next) I think he's gone back to her. I left him another note this morning before I left, asking if this was the case, and if not, why was he so distant. I have had no response from him yet.<hr></blockquote> Are you concerned that YOUR reaction has caused him to go back to the OW? Remember, your H is responsible for his feelings. I expect that his 'distant' actions and un-responsiveness is just his way of dealing with the fact that he's hurt you so deeply. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>But how do I deal with him shutting me out, and down, spiritually and emotionally. He still won't talk about his feelings. I'm not talking about the ones related to the affair, I'm talking about his feelings right now- since Wednesday anyway. He's shut me out. <hr></blockquote> Do you two regularly pray with & for each other? Is your H a Christian? <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I really want to involve our fathers in this. No one, outside of my husband, me, and his lover know about this (I guess her parents know, too.) But he will not 'allow' (his words) me to tell anyone else. He has a hard enough time with me talking here. I feel it's important for accountability, and for support, that some people who know us well, know what's going on. <hr></blockquote> I do think that having someone else as an accountability partner would be good. That being said, I would be VERY careful about telling yours or his parents. Think very hard about your motives and do a little "What If" thinking... You already know that this will make your H angry... What will your parents do/say? What will his parents do/say? Will they support you? Will they blame you? When I told my mother in law she blamed ME for her daughter's affairs!!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] You will have to weigh your decision very carefully and then stick to your guns. I think that given your husbands desire to 'keep this quiet'... that the best COA would be to find a male accountability partner for him. I don't know if he's read my e-mail, but I did send him an e-mail last night... I'd be honored to be his accountability partner if that is what he's looking for.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>My motives in telling others are completely pure. I really think we both need this support. And the help. <hr></blockquote> I'm not doubting the purity of your motives one little bit... But I would be very careful in deciding whether or not to involve yours or his parents...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I'm afraid by his response(or rather lack of) to me. I don't know what else to do. Time, sure. Prayer, yep. I just need something from him now.<hr></blockquote> I know this is hard... You are doing so good with all of this... Show your H how Christ would respond in all of this and he will eventually come around. We'll be praying for you. <p>Take care,
RIF90