Lyxa: My W read the email before I sent it. She felt that I had said what was necessary. I am not sure it was exactly what she wanted but I felt happy that it was not ambiguous.

Just a thought....... I was like your wife! I was attractive, thin and always made my self look sexy and then lo and behold I got pregnant, porked out felt my self esteem plummet!!! Have major stretch marks and was very depressed. My hubby had a one night stand with a skinny young blondde!!! Talk about just twisting the knife deeper.......But 2 years later I have started going to gym and doing things like going back to school to improve myself. I will never be 116lb's again but I wouldn't trade my stretch marks for the world!!! I have 2 boys that mean more to me than a good figure and here is what I am getting at. You should have loved her for who she is not the attractive woman she was, that woman is still inside but you need to make her feel like she can change herself, you having an affair just pushed her deeper into despair. Being a mother is hard, and for many of us overwhelming maybe you should give her a day at the spa to say thanks for bearing your child!!! Send her with $100 to a make up counter or clothing store and tell her how beautiful she is!!!!! Bottom line is if the OW got pregnant dont be so sure she wouldn't gain weight like your wife!!!!!!!!

After a difficult day yesterday, my W sent me a nice text message to say we were at the new beginnings point. It made me feel good and I looked forward to getting home. As soon as I got in she asked about the tele-conversation I had with the OW. Things seemed to be going wrong, I went for a walk, minus phone,wallett or car keys.
3 hours later I got home and we chatted, we both appologised for our part in the unpleasentness. We then had an okay rest of the evening and things are okay again this morning. I have another session tonightand am looking forward to the time.

Knjl, I have been called shallow and a number of other less complementary things in the past. I do like my wife to look good, but the most important thing about this whole appearance thing, was her self pride. I feel that if you have no pride in yourself it shows and that is what I was having difficulty with.

Hi Initdeep,
I know that both of you are working together toward building better M. As much as I understand the loss of companionship you must be feeling right know, do not think your W is too pushy or cruel by asking questions. First of all she probably is encouraged by your cooperation so far so naturally she yould like to get even more cooperation from you to get both of you thru this difficult time faster. At the same time she has hard time with trusting and having putting too much hope because of previous events.
I hope MC will help both of you to learn techniques how to share true ( even if negative ) feelings so you can heal.
It is really hard and unproductive to guess other side feelings.
FBOW

Hello all, after a few days of quiet I feel the need to put some things down. My W and I have been doing okay, after a shakey start to the week.
I have been doing the "call her when I would have called OW" bit and it seems to work for me. However the better I feel about us the worse my W feels. She seems to be getting more insecure as the days go by. We have been talking and I am trying with little gestures, to show her that I think about her all the time. She goes for councelling on Saturday and I really hope it helps. The car broke down today and I was unable to help. This small thing really got to her as the course she was attending appears to be her only outlet from daily life and now she will miss it. I do hope next week is better.

Hello all, my W and I have reached the third month since she found out. On the whole it has been the roughest two months of my life. I can only imagine what my W has been going through. We have each been to personnel councelling and now I have arranged a couple councellor as well. I hope we dont overload on the councelling. Looking back over last week, I think that we have survived it together and as it was the worst so far, I think that we can survive anything. Last week we started off with the no contact letter to the OW and I thought that would be the end of it. My W did not see it that way and we spent hours crying, talking and not talking to each other. There were times when I though it best for the family if I left, the sight of me only caused pain for my wife and this could not be good for the boys. I am sure she thought the same. I made a promise to her a few weeks ago, that I would never threaten to leave again. There were times when I thought I should say that if she did not "snap out of it" I would be on my way, but I couldn't do that. Well we are still living together, she is making a fabuleous effort in all the areas I high-lighted, and I have been trying to open up to her. The boys have been a great help as in my difficult moments I try to focus on them. This week seems to be better, although we are both waiting for the OW to contact me as I'm sure she will, however I do not dread the call and hope that the resolve I feel now, will be the same when I need it. Is there any advise for dealing with a call of this nature. I was going to be polite and ask the OW to read my letter and stick to an agreement we had. But should I answer the call at all?
Regards

Change your phone number.

Monday morning, I am beginning to wish I had a bed at work so I could sleep here. We started the weekend so well, my W went out with the girls for a meal on Friday evening, I have been trying to encourage this, not so she is away from me, but because I think she needs to be with her friends. Saturday we were both busy, Sunday we had a lovely day together.And then.. it all fell apart. I was called into the bath room, and told that I am acting funny. Leaving my phone on all the time. I cant seem to do the right thing. When she first found out, I switched my phone off as soon as I got home so there would be no calls or text messages. Then after the no contact letter I left my phone switched on all the time so she could know I was not having any contact, and she could check for texts if she wanted. Where do I go from here? She told me she had looked through my digital diary and found the OW home details. I was upset that she had been through my things again. I said that if she was going to do it then dont let me know. This may be wrong, but I will never be comfortable with her going through my stuff. I know it will happen and I said she could, but please not to do it in front of me. I feel that she is being either sadistic or masochistic, as soon as I think things are okay, she puts a stop to it, or is it as soon as she thinks things are going well she must spoil it. Please someone tell me this will not go on for ever. I know the hurt I have caused cannot be repaired, but she is doing this to herself now. Is this normal, or should I be seeking advise from someone?

What your wife is going through is very normal, even though it is very hard for you to take. First, I would like to compliment on all the hard work you are doing trying to be patient - it is such encouraging news to see that you are both trying hard. I would also like to acknowledge you for setting the couples appointment - I know it seems like overload to do both, but it really is essential - you can use your individual counselling sessions to touch base with your counselor about the way you communicated in your joint session - so try to see it as something which is there to support you, too.

I understand exactly what your wife is going through with the cellphone, and in my opinion, you should either change your phone no., or put a block on the OW's no., so you cannot receive her calls or messages. Is there a good reason why you cannot do this? You say you are both waiting for the OW to call because you are sure she will, are you sure you are not HOPING she will call so you can have that "one last talk" which you think will make everything OK?

As to your wife's reactions - she cannot "just get over it" - you have gone behind her back and had a secret life with someone else - she cannot trust you anymore, even though she wants to - she may never trust you again - the Harleys talk about this and they believe that "snooping", which is what it feels like to you, should not be an issue in a committed marriage. I know a couple who merrily open each other's mail and have no problem with that - but our individualistic, possessive and self-oriented society, we are conditioned to think we have a right to privacy even where our spouse is concerned.

This "right to privacy" issue is a major issue with WS - until you accept that she has an equal "right to know" because of the commitment you have given each other to share your LIVES together, you will never be fully committed to marriage. She would not feel the compulsion (which she probably loathes in herself) to search your things had you not betrayed her. But since that has happened, it is possible to restore her trust in you - but that only happens over time, and with concrete, tangible and consistent actions on your part.

These include - being understanding, not condemning or judgemental of her insecurity - this is not HER problem - it is the effect caused by your behaviour. She is not being sadistic or masochistic.

Verbal reassurance is not enough. You must deal with the cellphone to her satisfaction, which means either giving her the phone, or changing your phone no, and then handing her the phone when you come home. OW often search out and find the new cellphone no. Leaving it on "so she can check it herself, but just don't let me see you do it" is putting her in the position of HAVING to snoop in order to know, which if you were committed to staying with her, she should not have to do. Perhaps you don't feel "in love" with her right now, but hope someday you will again. You won't unless you actively show her that she can trust you.

I have done all the things your wife is doing - frantically checking the cellphone for msgs when my H was in the shower, spying on his e-mail account, going through his briefcase and finding letters. I can tell you it is the worst, most loathsome feeling in the world - the most destructive - it made me physically sick when I found the letters he had written, and now the mere sight of the cellphone (which my H still keeps locked with his own code) makes me feel ill. My H is far less "forthcoming" than you. He seems to think that I will just forget about everything since he has decided to go into IC. I can tell you that his actions in NOT doing the things he needs to do in order for me to even begin to trust him have cost him all the love, respect, admiration and dedication I ever had for him. I have not one shred left. I am determined to get fully qualified in my field - it may take me 2-5 years - and when I am able to support myself, if he has not come my way, I will walk - with both of the boys who are his whole life. DON'T pour all your attention into your boys as compensation - that is only a plaster on an open wound.

You have come such a long way - and just that one inch further - which really means just letting your barriers down and letting the wife who truly loved you, share your life again. It's not just her who needs her trust restored - you need to trust that this kind of deeper commitment will bring you "riches beyond your imagining".

Don't try - do it.

LIR

Well well, after a difficult Tuesday night, when I threatened to leave again(reading in the earlier posts I promised not to)I feel ver weak again for going back on my word. The phone bill came in and I asked my W to join me so we could go through it together. I left the room for some reason and she started reading through it. I was going to show her that from the date of the NO Contact letter, I had not called or texted the OW once. However before the date there had been many calls and I had not told her about these. She feels that I lied again,which I did as I said I had not had contact. My reasons for calling were to make sure that once the letter was sent that there would be no contact. There hasn't, the OW left a message on one of my phones and I told my W about it immeadately. I feel responsible for all of this including the break up of the OW marriage if my W calls her or her H. I hope we have got past the threat stage now though and after a long talk last night and counselling on Tuesday night, we are both feeling better. We are going away for the weekend,leaving the boys with my folks and I hope we can build some bridges during that time. For those who have been reading my drivel for a while, my W weight was a serious problem for me, I can only say that she has made the most remarkable effort and the pounds are falling off. I van driver flashed his lights at her and winked the other day, I think she felt really good about it. Lady-in-red, thank you for your input, I have difficulty in understanding the self destruct that my W is doing, but to hear that this is part of the process gives me hope that we are making progress even if it is very painful at times. Have good weekends all, I certainly shall.

I wish you good time on your getaway together and feel proud about no contact - it must be hard - I'm sure it will be appreciated.
FBOW

PS. Thanks to your input I'm dropping more weight in case it WAS a major issue. Now it takes real effort to loose, hopefully it will help my self esteem too, because giving up the few pleasures I am left with is depressing.

Just when I think things are on the mend they go wrong again. The weekend started so well and we were both having a lovely time. Then the self destruct button again and we take a few steps back. Counselling on Monday and things are strained but we are coping. My W has conselling last night, comes home and we start talking again. Things go from bad to worse and in the end we both have a terrible night and I rush off to work. I dont know where I am going or what I am doing. I know I am to blame for this and I have been trying hard to move on. I am just not getting anywhere though. We will discuss the A and our feelings for at least an hour each night, but more often two and sometimes up to four hours. Over and over the same things, I know she is checking my story again, and I have tried to explain that I have told so many lies that she should not trust anything I told her during the A period. I cant even remember what I said and didnt say, but I have been telling the truth now. However we still keep going back to the lies, I am embarrassed and ashamed of what I did. I am reminded of it by my wife, every day. I am reminded of it by my parents every time I talk to them and I am reminded of it by her family every time she talks to them. I have asked for one night when it is not discussed at all but it just doesnt happen. I feel that I dont know how much more of this I can take, I want to run away and hide. Is this part of the fog, I feel like I want to call my FRIEND, but instead I sit here and type away and then drink loads of coffee. I am still keeping my day full so I dont have time to call, and I dont often get the urge, but it is times like this when the habit is hardest to kick. A word of sympathy, understanding, may be a bit of affection. No questions, no demands and no apologies. I know that my wife and I are in a better place now that there are no lies and deceit but this feels very similar to my life three years ago. Strange what putting your feelings down can do, I feel a bit better now. Think I will go and murder a large Latte'.

Dear initdeep,
Thank you from me for not calling your "friend", even though you are finding it hard going with your wife.

I just posted to your wife and suggested she read the little article of SH on withdrawal - it talks not so much about the WS withdrawal from their lover, but about married couples - how the cycle goes from loving to conflict to withdrawal. And when the couple decide to stay together, they go from withdrawal back into conflict for awhile before they are able to be loving again.

Although the insecurity your wife feels is a normal reaction in her situation, and the constant questioning arising from her need for reassurance is also normal, many couples find a good compromise is to set a certain time during the week when the BS can ask the WS all the questions they want and the WS promises to answer truthfully - really - like say, on Thursday, we will have dinner together and we will talk for an hour and a half about anything you want, as much as you want. That gives BOTH of you a breather from this vicious cycle of confrontation. She knows she is going to be able to talk about it and you are going to dedicate yourself to being truthful and honest, so she doesn't have to keep pushing for fear that the opportunity will never arise again. And you get the space you need to try to get on with your life and make the positive changes you need to make without feeling like something is going to flare up without any warning every time you say something. If things heat up, you can say calmly - "I will talk to you on Thursday, like we both agreed, and like I promised." That way, you both get breathing space to calm down.

My H admits to "lying a bit" - so I take it that means he actually lied a lot. I accept that he lied - whether a bit or a lot, it doesn't really matter. What is most important to me is that he not lie now. If he were making the efforts you are making, I would be a lot happier.

Keep up the good work.
LIR

Lady in Red, thanks for your post, it does make me feel better to know that this is normal. As for the lies, if you H is anything like me then hiding an A takes loads of lies. Certainly my W was very upset by the number, and most of all because she thought she knew me and yet I would lie to her face. We had a good night last night and yet today she tells me she is having a low day. I on the other hand I am having a good day, I hope she will feel better I have tried to reassure her. We will see when I get home.

Hi, Initdeep,

About lies and trust - I need to share my current doubts with you.
I know it is a major issue for both of you so maybe you could offer your point of view.

It is exteremely hard for me to contain my distrust and hurt to just the A area.
So far I have no reason to believe that my H will not care for me or kids in the future - whatever it be- financiallly I mean, and so far he is trusting me with handling his matters here while he is away.
I try to keep myself unbiased and not suspect or accuse him of any wrongdoing in the material field. Yet he is about to make a major financial decision and I can hardly gather myself to support him openly and fully because I have still to deal with uncertainity in the A field- no declaration this way or the other and I do not know if the A is still ongoing.

I would be all for this financial deal in a regular circumstances, i.e. before the D-day, I even helped him figure out few details.
Do you think it is really possible to conduct an A in the nonreality world so it does not affect the real dealings? Or am I just too naive and I should care more about protecting myself and the kids in case we will be on our own?
On the other hand I do love him and I do not want to put irrational distrust between us in addition to everything else or LB him with my anxiety.
I always trusted his money sense and I was aware and participating in budgeting and bookkeeping and bill paying, tax preparing etc. I never suspected him or found out that he was hiding his spending/earnings before. I find it very uncomfortable and unlike me to have those doubts now.
Other posts do seem to suggest to be vigilant in this area; I feel that it would break my own resolution NOT to snoop, just have open conversations. I did get paranoid though in the sense that now EVERY change or new decision he makes I suspect is driven by A reasons. I have limited opportunity now for conversations, should I wait 2 weeks till he gets home to express my feelings then? Any suggestions how to bring it up in a nonconfrontational way? How to let him know that I feel far from "normal" now, despite being calm on the outside, that my "normalcy" does not mean I condone everything blindly.

Please let me know (if it's not too uncomfortable) what you think.
FBOW

FBOW, for what it is worth here are some of my actions. While every A is different, from what I have read here there are many more similarities. I beleive that my W is in no doubt that no matter what happened to us I would support her in the manner to which she has become accustomed for as long as she wanted. I earn a very good salary but I dont think we would be rich as we both like shopping too much. On to the financials, I lied about gifts to the OW, intimate gifts costing a lot of money. If my W had not snooped then she would never have known, and I have to say she was very upset about it. I was not in a sexual relationship with the OW but I still spent money on her. Whether she would have affected any serious financial decisions I made, I doubt that. I have, and had no probelm seperating my financial and business decisions from the A. I dont know if this helps, but in my case the A would not have had any effect on the finances now or in the future for my W. You may want to ask my W if she feels the same way though.
Regards and have a good day.

Dear Initdeep,
just read your post at pain & faith's thread.

About your W leaving you with decision and responsibility about the future of your M.

I will definitely keep this approach in mind for whatever next month brings.

Because this is basically how I feel since the D-day, I just needed time to calm myself down, realize that I am strong, good and empowered enough not to depend on my unhappy H by my (and kids) side. I still love him and would rather rebuild the M and do everything I can to make myself irresistible so he could fall in love in me, also for kids sake, but he needs to truly realize he needs to make the choice.

This simple statement from your W seemed to work for you to clearly show her attitude. Thanks - to her and you for sharing it.
FBOW

FBOW, I have just posted on Pain and Faith, and I think you two are in the same place. I know that Steve Harley et el, say that you cannot stop the A, it must run it's course. But what happens if you find out very early on, do you sit back and take the rubbish the WS is dishing out. Or do you make a stand and force them to face the consiquences of their actions? The sad thing is that If my W had told me to go, I would have. I had no desire to be with the OW, she was old enough to be my mother. But I must have been in a serious fog because I would have gone. I still maintain that I would never leave my W for another woman, but the third person in the M does things that I cannot explain. We had a chat last night and things did not go well, as usual I put my "Mr Fix it cap on" when all my W wanted was for me to listen. We apologised and things settled down. I will try to recognise the difference between" here is a problem, fix it" and" and "sit down, shut up and listen" I do hope that I can do it as when I open my mouth all sorts of nonsense comes out and I just make things worse.
Please excuse the rambling and disjointed thoughts, it's a sign of my mind early on a Monday morning.
Regards

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by initdeep:
<strong>My wife suggested I have a look here, so here I am. The main problem I have is that I confronted her with the fact that I am no longer in love with her and want to seperate. I had agreed to end my affair until this morning when my wife asked me to be faithful to her. We are still under the same roof and all discussions are calm. I need to feel loved and appreciated and so does she, and now for the first time I am contemplating a life with a wife I do not love. Any ideas?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You were in love with your wife once - because you asked her to marry you. Your wife was in love with you once - because she said yes! Love is NOT a feeling - it's wanting to do things FOR your Mate - things like making them happy, letting them know the things they do are appreciated: raising the kids, cooking meals, laundry, budget, etc. etc. a million things she does for you and things you do for her - take a few minutes to think of all the 'small' things you do for each other. Appreciate each other. You both 'fell out of love' because you were NOT meeting each other's EMOTIONAL NEEDS - then another woman stepped in and began meeting those needs that you were not getting from your wife. Did you wife ever know she was not meeting your needs? Did you ever tell her she wasn't? I found out - the hard way - that COMMUNICATION and RADICAL HONESTY are two things that preserve Love and Marriage. Of course some really good sex helps a lot too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> but women love to talk - it's something like a 'security blanket' and 'emotional intimacy' for them - that makes them feel so much closer to you. Talk is what keeps my wife and I together - we spend anywhere from an hour to 3 hours a day talking about anything and everything - and of course, she lets me know when there's something on her mind. I have gotten to the point where I can just look at her walking across the parking lot and KNOW without words if something is bothering her. I have read so many Posts and in Marriage Books about couples who 'just don't love each other anymore' - but they go to Christian Counseling and begin work as a couple on it - and they begin falling in love all over again - please DON'T give up - marriage is too sacred and precious to just toss away on some other woman who can never really trust you because you cheated with her on your then-wife - she will always wonder: are you going to cheat on her when 'ordinary life' settles in again? Please sit down and talk things over with your wife - give it a chance!!!!!!
Harold

Hi there LDB, thanks for the words of encouragement. Nearly 3 months on and we are still together, talking more and LB less. We do have difficult days, but who doesn't, the main thing is that we talk about them. I felt emotionally abused for quite a number of years before my A. Not that this is any excuse. I was nothing more than a father, and provider. But, we have moved on from that, realising that "WE" were before the boys and "WE" will be after the boys have left. My W and I discussed love yesterday, she is scared of loving me again in case I do not reciprocate. I used to feel love was a physical force, when I was on my way home from work, I could feel my heart beating a bit faster. For 9years I felt like a school boy whenever I saw her,excited, almost like I had a crush on her. I can't pin point when that stopped and may be I thought that was the natural progression of things. But I want that back. I want that feeling, that excitement. It was there for so long I cannot believe that I have grown out of it. Sure, we are having more fun together than we have had for a long time, I would go so far as to say things are really good between us. But we are still in the LIMBO where that LOVE feeling is concerned. On a different note, I hope Texas is good at Christmas time, we will be celebrating it with family there.
Thanks again and regards