The last 8 months of my life have been a living hell. A friend of mine and husband of my wife's best friend needed to stay with us for a while because of the Sept 11 bombing, which put some of his school issues on hold till the middle of November. During this time, he pressed and eventually my wife gave in to his advances. His family (wife and 3 kids) were in California. <p>For 8 months, my wife played off the fact that my epilepsy medication can make me a little emotionally unstable at times and reassured me that it was "all in my head" and other lies to cover the deception. The relationship progressed over the course of the 8 months and culminated twice in my wife performing oral sex on this man. There were I love yous and talk about actual intercourse and other things. My wife is infertile and after 3 years of fertility treatments, had finally conceived. A month after that, her relationship started. <p>Two weeks ago she confessed the full extent of the relationship to me. It was like 8 months of my life came into stark clarity, the self-doubt and loathing lifted, and then the pain and hurt and betrayal hit me like a whirlwind. We have temporarily separated; she's coming back home in a week. <p>I have tried to use this as a time for self-reflection. I don't know what is going to happen to our marriage. I love my wife more than ever. In our innocence while dating, we had talked about things like "What would you do if...". I always thought that the pain of betrayal and broken trust would crush me and that there would be no way we could ever reconcile. But faced with the stark and brutal reality of my wife's confession, and the conversations we have had since, I find that the vision of a future without her hurts almost as badly as what she did. I'm looking for glimmers of hope and reassessing my life, my qualities as a person, and my ability to be a loving husband. <p>I knew marrying her that about half of all marriages end in divorce by 5 years. I never knew that my wife had it in her to betray our vows, our trust, our love, our family, our unborn child, and could so effectively lie and manipulate me to cover this deception. Thankfully the child miscarried a month into her relationship. Now I know that because she has done this, there is a good chance that put into similar situations she'll probably do it again... and again... and again. I have to affair-proof my mariage.<p>Undoubtedly she deserves a 2nd chance. So do I. But, I find myself asking if she deserves me as a 2nd chance. No matter what Dr. Harley says, this affair has generated untold emotional and psychological baggage. Even as the affair started, I began making changes to me that would hopefully improve our marriage. I don't have much left to give, but am willing to try for a season. <p>I love her so much.

There is always hope. The emotional baggage that you speak of is what you keep alive. If you dont get rid of it, it will fester and become more there than what it really is.<p>If your forgive your wife for her affair and you feel that between the two of you that you can work it out, then I recommend that you try. I found out before my husband admitted to his affair, that I truly loved him and that I wanted to grow old with him. We decided that day after a lot of soul searching on my part, that we would try and reconcile our marraige and that we would both try...just not one of us....the next day was all that I dreamed of...then the following day I found out about affair #2.....then within the week found out about affair #1 and then #3.....after I forgave him for #2....its been very difficult.<p>I stopped eating, sleeping, the video tapes in my head of him having sex with these women was overbearing. I finally prayed about it and asked God to take over. Believe it or not...it worked. I have forgiven my husband, but the next issue I see coming is the fact that I take pot shots along the way making rude comments his way in order to express my hurt. Dont do that. Try to work it out. I wrote in a notebook questions that I had for my husband about his affairs..such as was it animal attraction or was it passionate love making, did he desire these women always or was it just sex, did he have his wedding ring on....stuff like that. As part of our reconciling...I pick the moment and then start asking him the questions. Its hard for him, but it gives me the sense of closure. <p>If its a great marraige...and you think you could let your wife earn back your trust....then go for it. If you cant get over it...it will never work...It seems as if its easier for the wandering spouse to get over it faster than the betrayes spouse..yet as the betrayed spouse...I have to work harder than he does at somethings.... Almost as if he is being rewarded for his affairs....Im still 3 1/2 weeks into discovering and the emotional roller coaster is amazing. Hang on...and just understand that this wont go away in a day. Patience is really needed if you feel it is deserving...Good Luck

Thanks for your reply. Like you, I have images in my head of the things she has done with him. Because I know her and how she is, I can see almost exactly what she would be doing, like a videotape. I'm trying to force those out of my head because, exactly what she did isn't nearly as important as what we are going to do now. <p>In all likelihood, I think there is a very high chance that after counseling and our best attempts to rebuild, that we will sit down together, and loving each other more than ever, decide to end our marriage. I'm refraining from taking potshots at her right now, but knowing myself, I know it's going to be hard to avoid that in the future. <p>The worst question I have asked to date, and it's only been about 8 days, is whether, after he ejaculated, she told him she loved him. It was too much detail and her answer has hurt more than anything so far. I decided not to ask anymore questions and am focussing instead on finding glimmers of hope that she ended this for the right reasons and didn't let it progress for the right reasons (as opposed to lack of opportunity and/or time). <p>I've also found that forgiveness isn't a one time thing, but that I find the need to forgive each and every time those images come into my mind.

L,<p>Sorry you are here; but welcome to a group of caring, understanding members who know what you are going through.<p>His Needs/Her Needs is great because it is about affair proofing your marriage.<p>Surviving an Affair is where you should start however; to help you understand that what you're feeling is normal.<p>Read the basic concepts here and post!! Let us know how you are doing! CSue

I'm sorry I'm here too. But thanks for the welcome. It's amazing how much this hurts. I never knew my own capacity for this kind of stress. I wish there were some way to know if my wife feels any remorse at all or if this is all just some kind of fall back position to regroup and then end the marriage when it wouldn't so blatantly be her fault. <p><sighs heavily>

It's interesting to note how things have all played out. My parents are trying to sway me that she isn't worth the effort of rebuilding. Her parents are trying to defend her. In the end, her family is pissing me off and my family is pissing my wife off.<p>I'd be curious if Dr. Harley has posted anything about closure for secondary victims, like parents. I've seen the things about children.

L,<p>Your situation is precisely why H and I decided not to tell family, friends, etc at this point.<p>Last thing we need are our well-meaning loved ones weighing in with their uninformed opinion. On the down side...it's pretty lonely where I sit.<p>H did tell his very good friend who happens to be our priest. Our priest doesn't know know that H told me about the A. I feel like I would have a hard time facing this kind friend/priest of ours. You see I feel like such a failure that this has happened. I can't bear for anyone else to know.<p>My family has a history of not supporting me at critical times and I REALLY don't need that right now. Good Luck to you; The people on this forum are life-savers! CSue

I wish fewer people knew, but I have to admit that at the time I wanted to run an ad in the Washington Post outlining the details. Desire for revenge has passed and I love her very much. She actually told several people by herself and I wonder about the consequeces. Where I didn't do anything, I feel pretty good out here. But when she comes back, I know it's going to be a challenge for her, wondering what people know and have heard. When pressed, I just say that she made some bad decisions and stonewall anything else. <p>When it comes up, I remind her that our friends and associates are 99% consumed with their own lives, struggles, and goals. Initially, they'll have whatever reaction they have, but in the end, if they see us together holding hands, laughing, and in love, they'll find other more interesting things to take the remaining 1% of their attention. <p>On a different note, as a BS, is it normal to REALLY REALLY want to have HEROIC SUPER SEX with her? I know there's a comparative factor going on... I guess I just want to prove myself the sexual superior to the OM. Is that normal?

In two days is our 5th year anniversary. She'll wake up to an assortment of 5 dozen roses. Later she'll recieve a love letter from me. <p>I'm really regretting the decision to separate for a while. Sometimes I feel good about it; other times I wish I had had the ability to make decisions from a normal perspective.

I am sorry for your pain that you are dealing with. Something jumped out at me. Here you helping a friend of yours stay in your home and who was the husband of your wife's best friend.
What does this say about your wife? This is how she treats her best friend? Your comment was that he pressed and your wife eventually gave in makes it look like she simply had no choice. All your wife had to do was say No and tell you. Instead she tells this guy she loves him. It just sounded like you were implying it really was not her fault. She did this because she wanted to do this.
I do hope you have contacted this man's wife and inform her of the situation because she has a right to know. It is amazing you lend your hand to this man and this is how he repays you.
I agree that counseling is a must and you must understand why she did this. If she constantly states that she was pressured and really had no say in the matter then there will be little hope for reconciliation. She must take full responsibilty for her actions and show full remorse and prove to you her love. <p>The fact that she would do this to her best friend's husband, do it in your home and seemingly willing to put your health at risk by having oral sex with him would make me think long and hard about what your future should be. I wish you luck.

Yes, the fact that it was her best friend's husband doesn't help any does it? I wish I remembered the link but statistically, most affairs are within your circle of friends. In some ways I feel better about her doing this rather than picking up some stranger and doing it. <p>He was my friend. Both he and my wife betrayed the people they committed to in marriage. How my wife resolves these things is something I am looking for in the months to come. I have so far refrained from telling the woman because my wife told her already that a relationship had happened. When we are back together again, we are going to follow Dr. Harley's advice and she will write a letter to the OM and his wife breaking off all contact, officially closing the relationship, and recognizing the pain caused by this. <p>I actually feel very little sympathy for this woman because in some ways she was as destructive as he was. She was always criticizing everything I did to my wife and had actually encouraged her to leave me. I see it as a contributing factor to why, when presented with the opportunity, my wife went. I did not intend to place any blame for this on myself. She did what she did. It is however a glimmer of hope that he had to press multiple times before my wife started giving in. <p>In the end, she is going to know everything through ecclesiastical channels. I don't want to ever see that family again.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lyxa:
<strong>
On a different note, as a BS, is it normal to REALLY REALLY want to have HEROIC SUPER SEX with her? I know there's a comparative factor going on... I guess I just want to prove myself the sexual superior to the OM. Is that normal?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Yes, this is normal. It happend to me and it did help in the begining but it was short lived because it was just a band aid to open heart surgery. My wife was totaly willing at first but within a week or two reality set in.
You sound very inteligent and what you have said so far tells me that you are capable of surviving this and building a brand new relationship with your wife. Understand that your old relationship is gone forever. You now must start all over. I know that seems hard to swallow it was for me but let me tell you from experience, the new relationship that I have now is pricless. I wouldn't want to go back to the old for anything.
Don't get discouraged by some of the advise you have recieved here. Unfortunatly some have a tough love aproach that might make you feel like it is not worth saving your marriage. Your marraige can be saved, there is hope!!!
Seperation in my oppinion, is a last resort. Although I did leave for a few days in the begining, just to sort things out, I think its better to stay together and work on the marriage than to split not deal with it. That is the easy way out and from what I've read is not helpful to restoring the marriage.
You have alot to deal with, I am sorry for the pain you are feeling, it realy sucks I know. It will get better with time, trust me.<p>SH

I hope it gets better with time. I woke up today at 4 a.m. with images of her and the OM running in my head. I finally got up, showered, and went for a walk to get rid of them. <p>I know that sex isn't going to be an effective band aid. In retrospect, I wish we hadn't separated. My wife is in a "I totally want to forget this happened and move on..." mentality where I'm in a self-reflection about myself and my marriage mentality. If what I read is true, she will quickly move to a "Why can't you forget this happened and move on...". <p><sighs heavily> I know you're right about having to start from scratch with her. If I had been guilty of any of the major love busters, this might be easier to rationalize. I could say, "I owe it to us to try again because I was abusive or drug dependent..." or something. But, as I've read more of Dr. Harley's and literature by other authors, I think that my flaws were annoying habits and activities and the occassional disrespectful judgement, with most of those occuring around my career. These I will change. Can she change?

Lyxka-<p>Dude, I completley understand. You talk about the images going thru your head, I know.<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=29&t=001695<p>(if interested)<p>I can't say I felt like the heroic sex part, since I was more dazed than anything else.<p>But just know I feel similiar to you. Maybe taking some comfort in knowing someone else feels like you will help you a little....? <p>I am also completely new to this site, and trying to stay sane. The people here are great, and they have helped me more than I could have ever imagined. <p>Keep breathing, have hope, and it will all work out. At least, that's what I tell myself [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Dave

Soul mates. You go to work. You face the challenges of a bills, reality, and the challenges of life. You trust that your wife is doing the same rather than taking consolation with someone else. Then one day, you're at work and you're missing her more than anything else. You hurry home to be with her. You have a romantic evening planned out... dinner at favorite restaraunt, movie we both like, and later that evening you want to talk about adopting a child... maybe end it with sweet love making. <p>Instead, she's on eggshells all evening and jumps out of her skin whenever her cell phone rings. Slowly the truth begins to come out.
- That she had told her best friend, the OM's wife.
- That a relationship had happened several days ago.
- That she had called the OM to give him a heads up that his wife knew.
- That she wants to do the right thing and tell me.
- Then she says, "I don't know how to tell you this... <looks away with fear and tears in her eyes>. What you've been suspecting all this time, something did happen."
- I asked if they had kissed. She says, "Yes, but it mostly him and I pulled away." I can tell she's lying and by her body language, that the truth is going to be awful.
- I get sick and start dry heaving, thoughts of adoption gone, thoughts of love gone, only a sledgehammer in my brain and dry heaving that I had kissed her earlier that day.
- I stumble to the bathroom where I continue to dry heave for almost 10 minutes. Regaining my composure, I quickly walk out of the room, downstairs, grab my keys and am about to go for a drive, when she comes running after me, slips on the stairs and sprains her ankle.
- We spend a tense 3 hours in the emergency room where they confirm it's just a sprain.
- It would be another 3 days before I get the full truth. Each minute of those 3 days felt like hours and was full of sobbing, anger, and unfocused attempts to either get her to leave, to tell me the full extent of the relationship, or tell me if they had had sex.
- My nights were full of nightmares and I'd wake up sobbing. As an epileptic, lack of sleep and stress are terrible to me, and during this 3 day period, I had 7 massive seizures. After two of them, as my memory came back, the first thing I remembered was D-Day... and all the original pain came back.<p>Even now I sometimes wish that one of those seizures would have ended it all for me. I guess my story is kind of lame compared to yours. But, the sense of betrayal, misplaced trust, and violated love hurts just as much.

No..your story is no difference to most of ours.....the pain is real, the nausea is there, the hurt is excruciating, the memory and the videotapes...endless..<p>My story...11 months ago...we seperate to different homes...4 weeks after seperation, I check his phone messages for my messages and a girl is on "blah, blah, had a great time...come to church with me.....dont argue with wife"..I ask....friend he met....<p>Current day, three weeks ago...H returns from 3 week trip out of town with company...standoffish...stay apart whole first weekend... I come to revelations while hes gone that I really want to work on marraige...go to talk to him...hes nervous, shuts off cell phone...never done this before...we talk, hes thrilled about my ideas....we make love.....next day...I show up at his apartment....check personal phone, copy numbers down...some women....check office trash..wierd notes..new video cam for computer....find note in box...hotel reservations..local....one person...king size bed...cell phone rings..girl H met at Outback....friends only....I diquise who I am and we talk...very suspicious....hang up..I call back and call her bluff..she says just friends....I beleive her.<p>H comes home....I ask about phonecall girl....says just friends...I ask for forgiveness for snooping...we hug....we talk...we hug.....I then feel guilty....and ask him about hotel reservation...world collapses...affair in GA... sex 3 times...video cam trying to hook up for e-sex....no protection used....H has STD....I call Georgia bimbo....she disappers....<p>I forgive after much prayer....we are talking...making love like a hero...wanting to prove I can be sexy too....all is well...we want to forgive and move on....any last things I should know.....(this is 2 days after the first announcement)....message girl and phonecall girl were both affairs..slept with all three women....I throw up....I collapse....in a week...I ate 3 m&m's...lost 18 pounds..cant sleep, cant eat, cant function.....I choose to forgive again....he says he has no regret or remorse but sorry that he hurt me. What does that mean? I want to constantly touch him and make love to him? Why? I need his touch?<p>Affair 3 calls last night...was at hospital Saturday night....mass on ovaries....possible surgery...oh yeah....tested...has Herpes from H....I ask him to end all contact yet she calls...I left message with other girl....dont call...she calls him back...says she wants him...2 chasing him....I asked him to change his phone number...he will...but will he give them the new number? THey know everything about me..car, work, appearance, child...the whole thing....I dont know them....they could be the cashier at the local grocery store or the lady at the bank....sickening....<p>GOod luck with the anniversary....I dont understand how they expect us to just forgive and move on.....I intentionally make love to my husband so that I can replace the video tapes with memories of us....Do you feel as if your doing all the work? Is she trying? I should of taken your advice on the not asking of questions....I just found out the condom broke.....what a visual....

I feel like I am doing all the work. We separated last Thursday, so today {Wed} has been 7 days. In that time, we have spent many hours talking on the phone. The phone calls are about a 50/50 split of her calling me, me calling her. I have sent her a letter forgiving her for the affair. I have sent her flowers. I have sent her a bunch of materials I printed off this website. I have sent her pictures of me, and us, from good times in marriage, happy times. Tomorrow, she will wake up to $300 worth of roses and latter today she will get a 5th Anniversary letter. <p>In the same time, I have gotten her phone calls. Granted she's in a rural area, and talks about sending me stuff, but I have yet to see it. I'm in a show me, don't tell me thing. Where she told the OM that she loved him, it makes me sick when she says it to me... but I let her because I think it's part of the healing process. <p>Like I've said, this is a time for self-reflection. If we fail to learn, grow, and make ourselves better for this, we'll forever be victimized by heartache. And, that's regardless of whether our marriages survive. I try to focus on the only questions that matter to me:
- Does she love me?
- Is this forgivable? [Yes]
- Does she deserve me as a 2nd chance?
- What now?<p>After talking with her yesterday afternoon, I decided that it might be best to not talk for a while. She'll be getting my letter and flowers tomorrow. What she does with them and how she treats herself in her spare time is her own concern I suppose. I have many "tests" that I am curious to see how she does... for example, she promised to send a letter of apology; she promised no more contact with the OM and his family; she promised many things. We'll take a wait and see approach... show me don't tell me. <p>If she breaks any of those promises, then that means something... what I don't know, but I suppose that somethings are more important than others. If I can find reassurance that she isn't going to have another affair and if I can look into her eyes and see the purity of love that was there when we married, then I might be willing to give this a 2nd chance. Otherwise, I am doing what is necessary to safeguard my own future. Knowing that you can't trust your spouse hurts like hell, but knowing that, I feel empowered to start making decisions and sorting through my feelings. <p>Your husband has already proven an utter lack of regard for your feelings. Just like my wife. Don't dwell on it. Find out what questions are the most important ones... and I sincerely believe that "What now?" is probably the most important one. Be sensitive to his feelings, but I don't see any reason to be overly concerned with them. After that, the next most important question to me is "Can I trust that this won't happen again?". To that end, I have been keeping a list of what I'm calling Glimmers of Hope, that is, things I find hopeful in her behavior that engender trust and might indicate that she ended this for the right reasons and won't do it again.

I too, feel as if Im doing everything...after three weeks, I finally got flowers sent to me from H...we have discussed him sending them for 2 weeks....the card said "Thanks for a great weekend"....I wanted something more along the lines of "Im sorry, and I love you for ever.."<p>He said there is no remorse.....no regret....that hurts...I dont think I could get past the "I love you" comment....that is so intimate....Im having a hard time with my husband stating that he thought there might of been a possible connection and future with Affair #3.....I asked how a person could come to that conclusion after meeting a woman ina restaurant, and screw her an hour later......how deep could the connnection be really?<p>THe "Glimmer of Hopes" list sounds great too. I did make a list of why I love my husband.....I read that to him before I ever read any of my questions or attacks.....<p>Its been very hard to stay apart from H.....you seperated because of the affair...where as we were seperated...but had agreed to not include an outside person as it would only add confusion....we are currently waiting for eachothers leases to expire so until then, we are staying the night at eachothers apartments.....2 nights here, two nights there...whichever is convenient for the night....<p>Have you and her had relations since youve been seperated? I thought at first I couldnt and now I cant not. I feel that we have to make our own memories quickly so that there is nothing for him to remember....how naive I am....as hard as it is to do this.....it will only help the healing process.<p>I wish I too could keep away from him...but every time Im away...his phone rings...am I naive to believe that it is just these girls calling him or are they returning his call...i guess once the number has been changed, all will come out....<p>How to regain trust?.....I dont know.....to go to the phone and there be no numbers and nothing has been erased.....to make love to the man I love without having any thoughts of whether he did this or that to them too.....to go out in public and not feel as if Im being watched by women....to fall in love with my husband again to the point that it was 5 years ago.....where we were invincible together....to live in teh same home again....and not worry about where the cell phone is...or who the person is at church thats watching me.....I dont know...it seems so overwhelming....

I love my wife. Returning to intimacy really really sucked. But, three days after D-Day, we were able to have a calm discussion about things, about our impending separation, and about feelings. <p>Being with my wife has always been a very sensual thing for me. I don't know how to describe it, but if we're touching, there's a tingly feeling that radiates out from where we're touching. It sucks for her, because when she's tired or just wanting to be held, I tend to get really turned on, even if I don't feel like making love. Her voice does that to me too. <p>As we talked, we drew closer and closer together. We both cried a lot... and fell asleep in each other's arms. I am so thankful that I have that memory now. I think I have accepted that I will never fully know the EXACT extent of her relationship and commitment to the OM. I have also accepted that there are going to be things that we do sexually or where... that will trigger memories for either her or me. <p>We talked about THAT and promised each other that by the 100th time we had built our own memories that we wouldn't remember those other things anymore. We also talked a little bit about the comparative thing. I told her that in this case Payback would be a number of things:
1. Holding me tighter when it hurts either her or me.
2. That the angrier or sadder I felt, the harder she would hold.
3. That payback would include the drowning out of any and all memories. If they were sexual memories, I guess we're going to have to drown those out. If they were emotional ones, I'm going to have to be there for her. And, that she would teach me how to meet her needs. <p>
Of course, I have an advantage where she already wants back in and a chance to rebuild. The seriousness of her affair was also lesser compared to your situation. In the self-reflection I've done, I've come to the conclusion that I am vastly superior to the OM and one of my biggest struggles is probably going to be coming to terms with why she would settle for a lesser man - I mean, if I were going to have an affair, I always imagined that I would seek out someone like out of a fantasy. Does she want a lesser man? Because if she does, I don't know that I can satisfy that need.<p>Since D-Day, I still can't look at other women without my stomach knotting up. I only want my wife. When inadvertently put in situations alone with another woman, like when my neighbor's wife waved hello to me yesterday... all I want to do is run. My wife has my heart until this over. But, she needs to show me that the love and trust can come back, not just tell me.

Interesting to note that we just talked. The point of the conversation was that she could come home whenever she is ready. Like many things before and during her A, it blew out of proportion where she thinks I am saying come home now as a proof of love. I tried to reassure her that that wasn't the case at all. In the end, I wish I had never brough it up. <p><sighs>