Just found out last week that my wife of 2 years has had several affairs over the last couple of months. I knew something has been wrong for some time. She has avoided spending any time at home and has refused to sit and talk to me when I requested it.
I have worked hard the last couple of days to try and talk things out with her. I know she feels great remorse and embarrasment over this. I can see it in her face. It seems that everytime we "try" to talk we wind up arguing and then she gets defensive. I am will ing to try and work it out and find the factors in our relationship that caused her to do this. I love her and know that this is not the person that she is.
The last couple of months it has been like I have been looking at a completely different person. She has not been the person that I married. Now that things are out in the open I do see the former person shining through. I see a sparkle in her eye every once in a while that used to be there when we were first married.
I think that one of the factors that has led to this has been a dramatic weight loss. I loved her before the weight loss as well as after. She worked very hard to achieve her goals and I feel that I encouraged her along the way. Up until a week ago I looked at her like a hero. A person that could accomplish any think that she put her mind to. I just dont feel that way now. She is no longer my hero.
I will eventually forgive the transgressions against me, but I keep having a hard time with the fact that I know the men she was with. Even though they are not close friends, they are on the fringes of our circle of influence. I will run in to them from time to time. This I do not know how to deal with. I would appreciate any advice on how to cope that I can get.<p>[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: Madnav ]</p>

Welcome Madnav...<p>There is a post of general welcome I wish to share with you... [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] <p>It has a lot of quick links to many of the most important MB sites...
Click here ==> General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)<p>About your post...<p>Do start on a Plan A...
Check out the post Plan A - 101 (2nd ed.).<p>You are on a different wave-length than your W right now...
...and that is understandable.<p>But don't take this time to let her "catch-up" to your understanding of recovery...
...your understanding of it will grow and develop over time as well.<p>Seriously.... very seriuosly...
...consider counseling:
I would recommend that you have a couple of telephone counseling sessions (~$165US a pop... but well worth it) with Steven W. Harley or Jennifer Harley. Check out the Counseling Center... and for some specifics... Fees for Counseling Services and Scheduling an Appointment (888-639-1639)! Also check out the post looking for a counselor&#8230;..zorweb/K&#8230;..5/11/2001<p>Considering the cousneling on your own if your W isn't ready for it...
...it's a good preparation for understanding the "concepts".
You may think it's expensive...
...it's not... when you consider the high cost (financial and emotional) of a divorce.<p>Give Plan A a good long push...
...many months if possible...
...and then...
...work on the areas of recovery based on The Four Rules for a Successful Marriage!<p>Prayers and Love to you and your W.<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Jim / NSR

Madnav,
Seek counseling with your wife, and take the emotional needs questionaire from this site. Then both of you can be honest and see what each of you truly values as important. Eventually she may tell you, but try not to get angry, because she may withdraw leaving you with bits and pieces. When my H confessed...I told him to talk to me as if I was one of his male friends. Yes, it was brutal, but at least I got it all. Explain to her the importance of her telling you what you want to know, and that if she gives it to you...she won't have to go through such conversaitons again.
Yes, you will be in situations with the OM. Just breathe and ignore the waves in your stomach at the time. Be professional and gentleman-like. They will want you to get angry and stoop to their level, and when you don't they will feel like the fool that they are. It works...trust me on that one. I see my H exOW once a week, and boy does she be scared. When you be kind yet firm...they seem to be in shock, and will realize certain things about their character. God Bless!

Thanks for the words of encourgement. Until now I have felt kind of alone in this. After spending the better part of my day reading the posts here I come to the realization that I am not alone and that there are people that do understand.
After work I went and purchased a copy of SAA. I was in contact with the W all day and we have had some light discussion through out the day about our situation. She is very receptive to working things out between us.
I do belive that her indescretions were for the most part the act of poor judgment brought upon by large quantities of alchohol.
This is not saying what she did is acceptable. I hope in time I will be able to forgive her and put it behind us. I love her, but hate her for what she has put us through.
I also hope that she is strong enough to go through the steps it takes to rebuild the trust in our M. It will not be easy at times. We have just started to try and fix it.
Thank you for your advice.

Well the time came when I had to face the OM. I honestly tried to keep my cool. The W had to drop of some things to her sisters house and the OM was there. The W said we would only drop in for a second , just enough to leave the things and a quick hello to her sis. I promised to be civil and would not start a ruckus. Well a quick visit turned in to a couple glasses of wine and conversation with her sis and the OM. I sat there stewing in it. All I could picture in my mind was the images of my W and OM together. How could she sit there and laugh and talk to him with me standing right next to her? I excused myself fromthe room a couple of times and even pulled the W aside and told her I really needed to go. She just nodded and said in a miniute. I eventually lost it in front of everybody screaming at my wife and him. Up until that moment her sis did not even know about the A. Well cats out of the bag now. I had asked my W to break off contact with OM and she said she would. Apparently she feels this "friendship" she wants to keep with him is more valuable to her than my feelings. She has stated a couple of time that she feels like she lost a good friend now that she can not see him. I have told her that it was her actions that caused it and she only can blame herself. Obviously she did not like to hear that. The night wound up with me going home and crying uncontrollably and her staying at her sisters house for the night. I woke up this morning ready to give up. I was prepared to move out and tell her to hire her employer. (he is a well known divorce attorney here in town)I am through. I can not let her hurt me like that and disrespect the marriage that she claims she wants to save. I just dont have the strength anymore. I talked to her this morning. I am at work and she is now at home. She says she was up late thinking about what she wants and she would like to work on us. I told her my feelings and that I am ready to leave at any moment. What she does no tunderstand is that she has only had to deal with the issues between her and I for a week now. I have known and been coping for over a month. I am ahead of her and ready to work on it. She is still trying to avoid her feelings of what she has done. I dont know haw to get her up to speed with me because I cant hold back anylonger.

As I said before...
...you and your W are still on different wave-lengths.

You can make her aware of where you are at...
...by being honest about your feelings!

You can tell your W you are in pain when she is with the OM...
You can ask her to never bring him into your presence...
You can tell her that your feelings are your own... and pain... (maybe anger)... you cannot control!

The question of "boundries"... during Plan A...
...is often brought up on these forums.

If there is anything... which is unbearable to you...
...you have the right to remove yourself from that situation.
...and do so!

You must start practicing honesty...
...of your feelings...
...with your W!
Even if there is no reciprocation!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jim/NSR

I am almost speechless reading your last message.
It is unbelievable that your wife would have you wait and sit next to her while she has wine with the OM and totally disrespects and humiliates you. She should be doing everything in her power to regain your trust. I wonder how she would have reacted if you had been having a sexual affair with a couple of women for the past few months and then took her to your brothers where she sat while you laughed and drank wine with one of your OW.
I would think that only a person that is so totally insensitive, selfish and certainly sadistic would even put her husband what she put you through. I cannot imagine a person hurting another human being doing what she put you through. I would think long and hard what you really want and need in your future. I am totally unable to comprehend her behavior and her distain for your feelings. Now she is upset with you because she can't be social friends with one of the guys who has been screwing her? If you do not have children I would run for the hills. Otherwise major counseling and therapy is needed for your wife. How is it possible you said previously that your wife feels embarassment and remorse for putting you through the affairs and then does this number on you? It certainly does not sound like embarassment or remorse. There is something absolutely crazy for your wife to do this to you. Be very careful what you wish for.
Good luck.

MADNAV. let me make this short.. you have no children ?. If so leave as fast as you can. I read your posts and belive you told us most of the story. Nothing I repeat nothing can make up for the total lack of respect she should you.Your wife has issues that need to be resolved.. So you can leave now and save yourself or just delay the pain and have to handle this situation later. But at that point you might have a home and children, now the escape will not be clean. There are plenty of wonderful woman out there , give yourself a chance for a normal functional life. But it must be without her. "Run like hell and don't look back" By the way I know how you feel, I am paying the porice for not leaving years ago. "Leave"

Thanks for the support. You are right we have no children. Unless you count 2 yellow labs. We are also a couple weeks short of our 2 year anniversary. So we really have not have had any time to really build a life that is hard to walk from. Other than house and cars there are really nothing holding us together.
We talked a little yesterday about her actions and how insensitive she was. But she is an avoidance stage. If it is not talked about or thought about then it does not exist. I did tell her that we needed to seek a counselor. She agreed to this and I feel like it is a step in the right direction. I will contact my employer tomorrow about the personal an marrage counselor programs they offer.
Last night we went out with some friends and we actually had a nice time together. I get so confused. I am now implementing plan A. I will not allow her to hurt me like that again. I will give her the chance to try and make things right for a recovery, but I dont think that it will be a lengthy plan A.
I was ready to walk out yesterday and I told her so. I am still ready to walk if I have to today. I will not like it and I know it will hurt like hell. I just can not be treated like that. The ball is in her court now. What she does with it is up to her. All I can do is take care of myself and get my self better.
Thanks again for all your help.

<small>[ June 30, 2002, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: Madnav ]</small>

One thing bothers me here on this site...and that's when I see BS saying they are leaving the home. The WS are the ones who caused the mess...they are the ones that (in the event of a separation) should move out and get an apartment!! The BS has been through enough...they should stay in the home, if they so desire.

Just my humble opinion!

Hi Madnav, just read your post, I am sorry you are here, but its good you found us.

I have been in my situation since Jan 02, I'm telling you now, saving your marriage is bloody hard work, you will often feel like your the only nutbag working at it, and there is no guarantee at the end you will get what your aiming for. Remember, there are two people with free will involved and you can only control one of them.

I have no children either (except a 8yr old puppy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) and could walk away too, but something always stops me. I think its love, respect for my H (even after all he's done) and just plain stubborness.

You will be in shock for some time and when people say its a rollercoaster, you better believe it!! Look after you, this is soooo important. Your wife is being disrespectful to you. Its called fog, and I believe its comes from intense guilt and a belief they have suddenly become superman (or wonderwoman in your wife case).

Read through other posts for hints on coping and what to expect next, commit to relaxing and working on you. You will find an unbelievable amount of support and friendship here. If you choose to try with your marriage keep posting, if you don't keep posting, because either way, if you choose to work on you, you will grow. You will learn what is working and what isn't.

Good luck

Oh, by the way. I've never met OW and don't know how I'd react. I think you did well to keep your cool as long as you did, especially where alcohol is involved. Think about the situation and what you could have done differently. You don't need your wife's permission to act in your best interest.

<small>[ July 01, 2002, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</small>

Straycat - I agree with you 100%. I think if anyone should leave it should be her. I dont feel like I should be punished for her actions. As of right now we are not to that point yet. Close, but not yet. I think that we are trying or at least I am. She is avoiding discussing anything if she has to. Although... she is answering direct questions that I ask. Weather she is answering with her true feelings still remains to be seen. Only time will tell that.

I had an interesting conversation with her mom today on the phone. Mom called to see if I was ok. The W said that she had told her mom and I assumed she ment everything. Well that was not the case. I inadvertantly mentioned the other ONSx2 that she had and her mom flipped. Ooops.. guess she should have been forthcoming with mom. Well I suspect mom is going to brow beat her about her honesty now.

That is not my problem. I now question if she has told me everything. None the less, I see a smidgen of effort on her part. Maybe some is better than none. I am not going to push her. She has agreed to counseling. I need to find a good counseler in our area that is a provider for my insurance.

Seahorse - reading your profile I see you have had it pretty bad also and my prayers go out to you. Thank you for your words of encouragement. They help alot. I sucks when you feel alone.

Thank you for everything...

Madnav, you're NOT alone...unfortunately there are too many people here. *sigh*

In no way was I endorsing a split...it's good you are working on it...I was just making a general comment because it upsets me when I see a BS say that THEY are the ones who have moved out.

I don't know how you feel about people knowing...maybe it's not all it's cracked up to be...but I wish I could tell someone, and talk about it. I haven't told ANYONE, friends or family...even though I know that what happened is not my fault, I am still struggling with the embarrassment factor. There are good days and bad days...

Straycat - That must be real hard not telling a soul. I know the only way that I have been coping is talking about it to friends. The W is trying hard to keep people from knowing. I think that is the embarrasment she has making her act that way. The people that she has told only know a part of the story. She is telling half truths which leads me to belive that she might not have told me everything.

In your case I can see if friends or family found out then they would not want you to marry him. I cant say as I blame them. Only you know weather it can be worked out between the two of you. Being so early in the game for you it might not be a bad idea to postpone the wedding until you can trust him again. That may take a long time. If you feel that he can not be trusted down the line then it will be easier (financially) to walk away. Do what is right for you.

Good ol' NSR - still lurking, still helping in the most practical way possible. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Your links and your info are top notch!

Madnav, your wife's actions are hostile and cruel. Did you have any idea before you married her how insensitive she could be? How selfish? Yuck. I can't believe she doesn't see how she's rubbing salt in the wound.

Our marriage vows traditionally say we will cherish each other, forsaking all others. Keeping a friendship with someone she's had an affair with is more important to her than making her marriage work.

I second NSR's suggestion: Talk to the Harleys on the phone.

Hi Madnav-Sorry you have to be here...but for your situation you are in the right place-and with Jim (NSR) you are in good hands! Definitely follow and read the links he gave you.
I don't remember where but somewhere on this board someone makes the comparison of the WS having their brain taken over by aliens. So while we BS think they should crawl back, crying oh honey what have I done? the truth is, they are in this infatuated fog and are thinking only of themselves. Some will tell you if she isn't sorry you should just walk away, but that is not MB. It sounds like you have a chance, since your WS wants to give it a try. A good plan A is what you should try to do; be the best person you can be, show your WS what she is missing, that you can rebuild your M, and yet then if it doesn't work you are prepared to go to planB and know that you tried your best. Good luck.

{{Madnav}}
Welcome. This discussion forum has helped to keep me sane through this roller coaster ride. I found it comforting to know others were in similar situations, and trying to work it out. Part of me felt like a schmuck or a doormat, but I wanted to be happily married, not validated that I was a victim. Good intentioned people counseled me to get rid of my spouse. But they would not have had to live with my pain of my sense of loss afterwards, and my new found knowledge of how I contributed to the "falling out of love". So I decided to stick with the people who were supportive of working out my marriage, sought out a counselor, and began applying the marriage builders concepts. I also made this site my home page at work, and I read, read, read, all the time. Last November my H didn't want to stay married. Today he calls me several times a day to tell me he loves me, can't imagine life without us, etc. He also directs people to this information/web site all the time. So hang in there, don't give up until you've given it all you got, and you understand these concepts. You will be in a much better position for life, and feel better too. Take care.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She is telling half truths which leads me to belive that she might not have told me everything. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh yes, that is most likely, but you can't presume anything. Presumtions can be dangerous and as a BS they can rip you apart (it something I'm working on right now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). It will be very difficult at this early stage in the game, but keep bringing your focus back to you and what you can do.

Have you read WAT's guidelines for betrayed spouses? That's where is compares the WS to an alien abductee. It really is the only way you can survive some of their horrible actions and words and not take it personally.

My H was good at 'white lies' unfortunately it is now much bigger than that. Only some people know about the A, unfortunately his parents don't know the full details although I think they have guessed - I wish they did it might end the A quicker if his dad got involved - then again it may not - blood is thicker than water - keep that in mind before you endlist family members to help you - I learnt it the hard way.

Hang in there, chin up and do talk to a counsellor, it really will help - if its Harley even better!

Well.. I have been away from the board for a couple of days. The W and I had a big fight on last sat night. I know I am not supposed to have any angry outbursts, I tried to keep it in. We had a great discussion on the 5th about what is happeneing and where we are going. After that we had a wonderful day together. That evening we went to the movies and came home afterward. She had let me know that she had made friends with a guy and had been e-mailing and had lunch with him in a group setting. I was not happy about this but I was not going to start a fight. She told me that he said he was not going to be friends with her behind my back (he knows what has been going on between us). I appreciate him saying that. Sooo.... the night of the 5th we get home and she calls him to tell him that I know of their friendship. Right before she hangs up the phone she says "ok I will come down and have a beer with you". She hangs up and looks at me and asks if it is alright. I told her we were having a great evening an I was hoping it would keep going. She made some excuses and I figured if I told her to stay home all it would do was piss her off and she would stay home mad.

So she left to go hang out with him. She did come home when she said she would and she did call me several times from the bar where she was at to check in. On Sat. I went to work , but was able to get off about 3 hours early. I got home and she was not there so I called her cell phone. She stated she was out shopping and she was with this male friend of hers. Now I find it a little inappropriate to be hanging out with a single guy. Especially after everything that has happened. She has proven that she can not be friends with men. I have no problems with her having male friends and hanging out in group settings, but she should not be having "dates" with them. That is the way see it. She is having a "date". I told her Sat afternoon that I did not feel it was appropriate for her to be buddies with men, and that I refuse to have that in my life. We talked about it for a while with no conclusion other than her telling me too bad and to deal with it. I left for a couple of hours to clear my head and decided that the best thing for me to do was to leave. I called her and said that I was going home to pack my things and I was going to find a place to stay. She met me at home and as was packing we talked somewhat rationally and agreed that we could not fix it with out the help of a councellor and that we were not going to find one a 9pm on a sat. I decided to stay and we started to have a decent evening. About 11 pm she went out on the porch with the phone. I checked on her and she was outr there having a cigarette (she just recently started to smoke) and was talking to her "buddie". I lost it. I told her that I hoped that she would be happy with him and started out the door. She chased me in to the garage as I was getting on my motorcycle. She had hung up the phone and we started to getin to an arguement. I told her I was done. I was done trying done with the buddies D-O-N-E... DONE. She wanted me to stay and I told her that she had to make a choice at that moment. Her buddie or her husband. She said that she chose me but then she said something (I cant remember what now) that totally inflamed me. I took off out of my driveway on my bike and was never going to look back.

She called me several times on my cell before I stopped and was able to answer. I called her back and she begged me to come home. I figured I needed a little cooling off time so I told her that I would call her if I decided to come home. I eventually did go home and she apologized several times to me and we eventually just went to bed.

Sence then things have been good between us. We have our first counseling session tonight. She made the appointment and found the counselor we are going to see. I know she wants to work things out. She is just out in left field sometimes. We have an anniversary coming up on the 31st.

I think we are going to go out of town on the 27-28th to get away and be alone. The weekend of the 21st she is going out of town with all the women in her family , kind of a girls weekend for her stepsisters birthday. I think it might be good for her to get away and think a little bit.

I am still trying. It just is getting soooo hard.

I know that things are very 'raw' right now. I know you feel like you are on an emotional roller coaster. Some days are great...the next are terrible. Wondering when it will end, when you'll feel calm and secure again. All these things are normal. When I was going through the beginnings of this I got some great advice (which I'll give to you!!).
1. Don't make any hasty decisions (you aren't in a great frame of mind).
2. You must work on your marriage until you can honestly say to yourself that you did everything you could to save it.
3. Take care of yourself. Eat properly, exercise, go out with friends.
4. Finally, if you feel the need to talk about it, then do so. Don't keep quiet because she wants you to. If you need to rant/vent/discuss, then you should do just that!