Dear Liza,

Look at this way. His spilling his guts is progress. Hiding the truth is regression. You have changed his direction. Not all the way but some and this is what you need to realize. Small steps and in the right direction.

Ok, can't jump for joy yet but I hope you will try to crack a smile. You want one of my crazy OW stories? I can tell you the one about the laundry bag that I hung on her front door?!?!?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> happened for real!

L.

Orchid,
I like that. I will have to remember that, in case I need it. (of course, my H, in his own demented way, will think I'm the crazy one).

Liza,

I'm sorry to hear about this. Orchid has some very good stuff to say. I've been away from the computer for a few days. School, exams, clinicals. This week, things should slow down for about a week. It is every other week, it is the week from you know where.

Dear Liza,

If you are crying every day- you should look into anti depressants. They really help. I was in that state myself. Depression. It's normal, and the sooner you get help for it, the sooner you'll start to feel better.

I live in the NY area too. If you need some support, someone to talk to or write to, let me know your e-mail or if you want I'll post mine. I'll check back to see what you say. (If you want to keep it to the forum that's fine too.)

Dear MB friends:

it is still terrible. Hurting so much...all going in the wrong direction.

We just got back from the weekend with our friends, who are dealing with the wife's newly diagnosed advanced cancer. They asked my H to be their 3 month old baby's godfather. It was so heartbreaking to see them. They asked us to go to Tahiti with them as soon as she is better after the chemo and radiation. I want to do anything to help them. They were so happy that we had made that long trip to see them.

On the flight back I was looking at all the lights in those little towns far below, thinking why in the world of all the people I had to end up with my H, who then would do something so terrible to me. I felt very distant from him. I did not want him to hug me or hold my hand.

When we got home we had a big fight. He says that he feels it is going to end in a divorce because I am not willing to try anymore. He says he is still trying. But then he gets all defensive and angry and shouts at me. He interrupts me and doesn't listen to my words. He said that we had to fix this now on his terms and that means no more discussing the past (ie the affair).

I said that all I wanted was to be able to love him again, like I loved him that day when he went to her apartment and I did not know about it. I called him that night from work and just wanted to hear his voice and show him my love. The next morning I was full of joy when I saw his car in the driveway. I came home so happy to see him and he destroyed everything when he admitted what he had done that night. I can't love him like that anymore now. Every time I try I see the betrayal and his lies.

He says that he loved me and that the A had nothing to do with his love for me. What kind of love is that?

Dear Orchid:
yes, you are right when you say that it is my fault now, that this is going the wrong way. I am the one to be blamed for not forgiving him. I tried for a while but I can't. I can't move on because he does not answer my questions about the reasons for the A. I can't build the future until I feel somewhat safer that no other A is going to happen (he says "never again" would he do this, but how can I believe that?).

I want to learn from this A to do everything possible to change and prevent another one. But all the answers I am getting is that it was only his depression and there was nothing that I could have done...

Dear Sue:
thanks for checking on me. It's always great to hear from you.

Dear espoir:
my email is iceprincessmail@yahoo.com if you want to write to me. Thank you for your words in the past and now.

Thanks to all of you for your support and for giving me this place to come to meet you.

Hi Liza,

You may not like what I have to say.

In answer to your question, Why the A? My guess is, the one having the A, does not know the answer to that question, so they cannot answer it.

I know, sounds dumb to you and I. Why do any of us do things that we know are wrong?

Are the two of you in MC? IC? You might want to try it. I've heard from others here that the Harleys are great. You could call and get an appt. There appts are all phone appts. They are a bit pricey.

Your H is so remorseful, that I want to see your M work. You were so happy before, correct? Even before the A, you were happy? Would you like some happiness back?

Somehow, your H needs to understand that this is a process that you are going through. It takes time to fully recover. It isn't like the 24 hour flu.

Keep in touch

Dear friends:

last night I finally got an honest answer from my H why the A happened. He said that he was so stuck in his depression/midlife crisis that the OW gave him excitement/adventure and made him feel "alive". He said he never loved her, never wanted even a relationship with her. He says she is pretty dumb, not good looking and he never even for a second thought of leaving me for her. His plan was to have sex with her a couple of times, then dump her and never say a word about it to me. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

After this admission I couldn't say anything. I just took my magazine and pretended to be reading, then went to sleep.

Now I really don't know what to do anymore. Maybe this is why I had doubts about this recovery all the time.

Even before the A I have been there for him, loving him, wearing sexy clothes, trying to make our life happy and adventurous and exciting and apparently nothing was good enough. Of all men he was really one of the lucky ones to have such a passionate wife like me. I can't understand why he had to go looking for just this somewhere else. At one point he said it was comparable to people doing skydiving or mountain climbing, just for the thrill...

Looking at the whole situation now, I think it is unlikely that he changed his character back to the kind and loving man that I married. If you have thoughts like he had and go ahead and do it...oh my God, what is left then of all your morals and goodness and the kind person you used to be?

I am totally devastated now. I continue trying to fix this with him but I am sure that it will happen again. He didn't get the chance to do what he had planned so he'll complete it next time.

Help me please. What is the right thing to do here?

I just found out last night. My best friend, my lover for 8 years told me that he had an affair that started in February. He said it happened twice. Some background. We are both in prestigious positions at the same company. We have both been divorced. Between us we have 3 awesome boys, a beautiful home, a new swimming pool, etc. We have always done everything together. Even up till this last weekend. What is so outrageous and utterly crazy is that our sexual relationship has always been the greatest. He will tell you that, he will be telling the counselor that when we go see him. He has sworn that I have done nothing wrong! That I could not have done anything more right! That he has never had anyone give so much of themselves the way I have given and loved him. He says the problem is with him. He has finally admitted to a sexual addiction. He has wanted us to participate in an "alternative lifestyle" for sometime. I attempted it, but could not live that way. I KNEW it was wrong. Since then, it appears that his "need" for something new or different, but so he says "not better" was too strong to resist. We have been up all night. You name it, I said it. The pain is undescribable. I am physically ill. I have cried, I have hit him, screamed, I even spit in his face. I have asked he not reveal who she was. I know she works withs us, I know she looks at me everyday. I am embarrassed, humiliated, a fool. I knew he had a "requirement" when we met, but I loved him anyway. We have built a home, a foundation... and all I can see is them together touching her the way he touched me. He has begged me to stay, he has begged to go to counseling with him. He says I am his life, that i am everything to him. He let me say all the horrible things, and he never defended himself. If I knew that I was not meeting his sexual needs, then I would feel somewhat responsible. But such is not the case, I am beautiful, energetic, intelligent, strong and very sexually healthy. But today, I feel none of that. Today I feel that if it werent for my children, I would rather not live.

Dear IEP,

I am so sorry to hear what you are going through.Thank you for your post. Our stories sound similar except for the fact that my H never asked for an alternative lifestyle. But you sound like you are the same type of woman as me. I am glad to hear from you and maybe I can help you a little by sharing my experience from the last three months.

I know that you are feeling horrible right now, but you came to a good place where there is a lot of support.

Listen to the wise people here and read, read, read.

Start posting your story in your thread (just copy your last post, because things quickly get lost here with so many new postings every day).

The most important thing that our friends here taught me was not to make any hasty decisions while your feelings are in turmoil and you are in the worst pain of your life.

Hold your head up and don't let this destroy your self-confidence!

I'll be checking on you.

<<<Cyberhugs>>>

Hi Liza,

Well, at least now the truth has come out. You have good reason to suspect it could happen again.

We know this has nothing to do with his relationship with you. It sounds to be that for some reason he is unhappy with himself. He said he never had plans to leave you. Just wanted to add something to his life. Is he in IC? If not, I think it would be very beneficial to him. I think it would also help ease your mind if he was working on what ever the issue is that sent him on this road. Unless I'm wrong, most don't plan to have sex a few times and leave them. So, for some reason, he felt some need to fulfill, and I don't think you could have fulfilled it. This is not meant as a slam. I guessing that maybe it has something to do with the excitement of sex with a new person. Sex with a stranger (almost in this case). Am I making any sense.

Most of the posts out here, the WS blames the BS because the BS was not there for the WS. Yours isn't even saying that. He is happy with you, he had no plans to leave you. He was hoping for a short fling and that be the end of it. Why?? who knows. I will repeat myself, and say that maybe it is some sort of self esteem issue that needs to be addressed with an IC????

(Now that I'm done playing armchair psychologist)

How are you? Had a patho quiz today - I think I passed it. We have a quiz every week, and and exam about every 3-4 weeks. Work keeping you busy?

Dear Sue and MB friends:

Sue: girl, you are good! Maybe you should think about changing careers...become a psychologist instead and charge 150 $ an hour... and buy a new car (you know which one...)

Yes, I think, too that my H has a self-esteem issue and yes, he is seeing an IC.

Hopefully that will help. Yesterday we had a really honest great talk. He said that he wants to find out why his character changed so much that he did what he did. He says he changed back to his normal self and he wants to work on all these issues with the IC to prevent it from ever happening again. He said I and our boys are the center of his life and he never wants to loose us.

I felt that with his honest admission and our talk we made a big step forward. Last night I felt peace again in a long time.

Today we talked again and he said that he never did anything (meaning A) when he was at a meeting. I thought about that for an hour and then called him to ask if that meant: "only never at a meeting" or "never at all". He said: "I have not done anything like this in the past and I will not do it in the future. This was the only time that it ever happened". He was honest and serious and I believed him.

I hope so much that this is a new turning point in our recovery. I want to live with him with peace and trust and love.

Thank you all for your continued support.
<<<Hugs>>>

Hi Liza,

$150 hour HHHHHMMMMMM, I could buy that car. Oh, but I don't know if my sanity could survive any more years of school. I know if my kids could survive me going to school any more than I have. At one time, I did consider it.

I'm glad you and your H talked and it helped you to find some peace. Maybe that is why it bothered you. You knew deep down he was holding back. What our spouses dont' realize, is we know them too well and know when they are being less than honest.

Hi IP
I answered your post in the recovery room. Hope you are doing okay.

Liza,
You are a very strong person and that is great! Most women would be hurt and try anything to stay together if it be for the kids or even the 10 years of being used to someone. I was once told that a man wants a good lover, a goodhousewife, a good mother, a good cook, and a whore. But we cannot be all of that so they look for what part wives are not. My only suggestion as seeing it from your point of view is that he needs to make it right because how many other times has this happened? He only told you because of the cell phone issue. My father was a youth pastor at a church married 13 years to a wonderful woman. One day he picked up and left with his secretary at church and his wifes best friend who is my age. So it shows you never really know who people are. The divorce was hard on me and my 13 year old but with counseling we will get through it. But like I said you are a very strong person who is right when a wedding vow is destroyed what else do you have? Dr Phil has a good book relationship rescue you should advise your husband to purchase cause he did the damage not you. Good luck and stay strong!!!

Hi 1a1,

thanks for your post. I loved the part about what "men want".

You know what...if it was for that he should have had an A with Martha Stewart consisting of making lamp shades out of cup cakes! I am a lousy housewife...really (great that I can already crack a joke about the A subject!!!).

The other parts I was pretty good at (in his opinion and mine...).

Thanks for thinking that I'm a strong woman. It helps a lot to hear that because some days I still feel really terrible and weak and powerless.

All the best to you!

Iceprincess,
In a sense we are powerless over what otherpeople do but you have a gift of power because you are strong. You see all these women who get abused but stay because they love the men. So never think you are weak or powerless. I do think if you love this man then try to make it work trust will be hard but you will get through it. They say forgiveness is not forgetting but not allowing the issue to affect your daily life and thoughts and when I heard that I thought wow that will be hard to master especially if we get into an argument that will be the first thing I bring up is past mistakes. I have not mastered forgiveness so I cant give any advice there. Keep in touch if you need to talk email me at melissaex_99@yahoo.com

I liza,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> . They say forgiveness is not forgetting but not allowing the issue to affect your daily life and thoughts </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I like this. It is tough to manage, but attainable

Dear MB friends:

thank you, Sue for that quote. I'm trying to forgive him, but it is so incredibly hard.

I've been feeling sad and hopeless about what has happened. Yesterday he brought me anti-d's and wanted me to start taking them. I've been having thoughts about not wanting to live with this pain anymore. I feel exhausted. I did not take them.

He is asking me all the time what he could do to help me- I don't have an answer for that, except that he should have never had this A. I've been looking to find a counsellor, but honestly what can talking to a total stranger help me with this? As H said it was not what I did, but his MLC and his problems from the past.

I've looked so hard at myself to find what I did to push him into this A. I was the loving wife and while he was flirting with the OW I spend a long time to find the exactly right and wonderful Father's day card for him, I called stores all over NJ to find him the special flag for the soccer world cup, got up with him at 2 AM to cheer for his team, bought him a Porsche convertible for his 40th birthday (with small model Porsche on the cake-how much effort to get that detail right-for the big surprise), was there every day for him-loving him with all my heart, trying to help him overcome his depression. And nothing I did was good enough for him?

All that realization has set in now... I remember details now from those months and it is hurting me more than anything has ever hurt me.

He says that I should try thinking about our future together, about the happy life that he wants build...I told him today that I cannot think that way and get my hopes up, because I don't have the trust to believe he is not going to shatter everything with his next A.

I have no trust, a lot of despair and sadness and pain. In the past I loved him so much...now there are days when I have to force myself to go home to him.

Then there are moments when my love for him returns and I want to overcome this. When I want his love and peace returns to my heart. Yesterday he said that he wants "to walk with me on autumn afternoons when we are old"...in such moments I see the kind and wonderful man I married. The man I love more than anything in this world.

Liza,
It seems that you are doing what many ( but not all) BS's do at this point. You have lost your faith. I have stopped by from time to time to see how you are doing and you seemed to be recovering well. Now I find you in doubt all over again.

As I read what precepatated this doubt, It is easy to see a pattern that often occurs. You wanted to know why - and why is something hard to define in almost every case. My belief is that he really doesn't know why but because you wanted an answer he tried to give you one. As I have taken child developement classes over the years, I have always been taught not to ask a child "why did you do that." And the reason give is that they don't know why, and we are asking an unanswerable question in most cases.

It looks like ( from where I sit) that he is sincere. I believe you are asking for something he cannot give. You seem to want proof that he will not do it again. He would not be able to prove that he won't have an affair in the next 20 years until the 20 years are over and he could say "see, I didn't do it." This only if you were with him 24/7 to verify it.

There comes a time when you just need to have faith in him again. I can see no reason why that time should not be now. Everyone in recovery has doubts and fears and they play on our minds. Liza, it doesn't have to be this way, you can replace the negitive with positive in your mind if you set that as a goal and work on it each day. Perhaps there are things going on behind the scenes that I don't know about, but from what I can see, this can work for you.

In your case he says he is sorry and wants YOU. His actions right now seem to bear this out. If you are going to recover, you are going to have to just trust him and go on. I hope you are able to do that. I don't know how you feel about prayer ( I should pay closer attention) but It has helped me over come the negitive feelings I often have. I recommend it to you. I hope you can make this work. I beleive it can.

I recommend you take the anti-D's It really does help and you shouldn't feel any worse about that than you would for taking medication for a headache.

SS

<small>[ October 08, 2002, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Liza,

Hi. I know what you are feeling because I am there as well. I swing from the feeling that things are great and we are well into recovery to why am I just setting myself up to be devastated again. I think SS offers some valuable advice -- you just have to have faith, ride through the bad times and welcome the good.

I have forgiven my H, but I cannot forget what has happened. Also, I feel that lately I have discovered some hidden anger over the whole situation. Why am I in the position? What did I do? Why can't it just go away? Why can't I get over this? Why do I seem to be messing things up when things are going well?

I don't have any answers for you -- only to say that I understand and agree with SS. You probably will never get the answer of why your H did what he did. And even if you get one, it probably won't satisfy you, because there really is no valid reason for doing what he did to you. That is why he needs forgiveness -- we only need forgiveness when we have done the unforgivable.

FHO

Dear SS and FHO,

thank you so much for your insights and advice. I appreciate it so much that you take the time to think about my situation and to support me.
<<<THANK YOU>>>

I know in my mind that you and the others are right: I should try to see the positive sides and forgive my H and move on, building this "happy life" with him.

But in my heart I feel that it is wrong. Everything is wrong.

I feel that I have worked for our "happy life" while he was betraying me. I gave him all the huge amount of love I had to give, I was passionate, caring, my heart overflowing with joy whenever I could be together with him.

2 days before he went to spend the night with her with the intention to have sex with her ( <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> ), we went to a beautiful dinner in a very nice restaurant. We were walking back home in the rain and I told him about my great love for him that night-so great and wonderful like the first day when we were together, after our first kiss, walking in the rain in Central Park.

Now I am asking you and everybody---what could make him do this horrible thing 2 days later???

Sometimes I feel I want to leave him. He does not deserve it that I go through so much pain and fear, for him, a person who had no problem to dump me, his children and our love in an instant to fulfill a selfish disgusting impulse.

Where are the BSs who did not want to continue living with the WS who chose to pursue the A, after the betrayal and with all that has been destroyed?

How many of us just walk away, saying: I have given you one chance to spend your life with me. You apparently had other things in mind with your A.

These are my thoughts...maybe they don't make much sense to anybody else...because noone else knows how much I have always loved this man who came into my life and never forced me to, but for whom I changed my world, because I wanted to be with him forever. And noone else knows about the nights when I tried to reach him in his depression, when a little smile from him meant the world to me. Those days when my EN's were not met at all, but it didn't matter, because I loved him and wanted to help him to get better. All of this failed in the worst possible way.

Where is the way out, the way back to what we have lost? Where is the way that I have to find with my heart and not my mind?