<small>[ January 31, 2005, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

Yes my girls cry with me. They feel safe to do that.

I have twin girls who are 10, and a younger girl who is 7. They have been incredible really considering the things that have happened to their mum in front of them and the effects they have seen.

I am remaining positive about the effect on them. I am saying to myself that this trauma that they have seen and have gotten thru will in some small part make them stronger later in life.

I have gotten them into a little routine. When they come home from their Mum they are normally upset and tearful. They hate being around OM2 and loathe him (of course they only say that to me not WW). So I get them straight into some small chores taking care of their rabbits, emptying the dishwasher, doing the next days lunches, helping with the tidying up so I dont have to do a lot when they go to bed, then we sit and do their homework.

After that we play or do other stuff until its bed time. I keep them up a little later than perhaps I should (another 1/2hr or so) so that they sleep well and they get an amount of quality time each day. I'm very much into telling them its not about them, that me and WW love them very much and that I will always look after them.

They do cry and miss her, often at just after bedtime, but I just hold them and cuddle them. They are still so small after all. They can be so mature at times for their age.

I do find it very lonely once they are in bed around 9:30pm. That's the hardest times for me at the moment.

Neil.

We had another blow up last night on the phone.

The girls were very very upset. They hate having to see OM2, they hate the situation. They come home and cry and cry. I couldn't get them to stop crying, they wanted to talk to their mum. I got them to phone her and she said I was using them to manipulate her. That they had been "fine" with her. Of course they had, they no longer share how they feel with her, they tell me when they get home.

She just went on and on at me about how I threw her out (she said she was moving in with OM2!), how I didn't give her any money (she had $8000 they are both living off the next day!), I didn't support etc etc. She didn't like it when I said that she had run away and was trying to live a no responsibility Fantasy. I said to her that she was breaking me, she said I was breaking her...

I told her that I can't keep seeing her or talking to her. I thought I could do Plan A but really I think I am dealing with something much more than a marriage breakdown, I am beginning to think this is BPD. Of course she says I'm ill not her. The girls are with her this weekend and I'm alone so I feel pretty low. I'm thinking that Plan B would be a bette approach, just faster than Steve H suggested?

Neil.

Neil, it pains me to have to say this, but I think Plan B is appropriate and needed. She can't be allowed to have her cake and eat it too any longer.

Please, regardless of how you may be torn, start putting your children's welfare first for now. Take whatever legal steps are necessary to protect the children from your wife. Total separation, no visitation with the children, especially anywhere near her adulterous paramour.

Stop all financial support, stop taking her calls, etc. and let time pass. The finality of the situation may be your last hope. I am not confident in the outcome, but you have done and endured enough and she is continuing her wayward ways. Protect yourself and your children and let her have her way. Perhaps she might come to her senses, but regardless of the outcome, get your kids out of any contact with that unwholesome and destructive scenario. It's tough enough on kids as it is without them having to endure what they KNOW is wrong and have their mother tring to explain that it is okay for her to do whatever she pleases no matter who gets hurt. Not a good lesson for the kids.

My continued prayers, Neil.

Thanks ForeverHers,

Problem I have is that I do not want her to stop seeing the children. I believe in the long term it is essential that they see her.

I know the damage in myself that was caused by being removed from my father's visitation.

My children have seen and coped with so much this year that I am confident that they will in time be able to cope with this. It is my wife's belief that they are totally unaffected that is the problem. I am moving more to Plan B with each day and I expect that this will be the best way to look after the kids and me. I do not financially support my wife, I do however have a divorce type financial settlement if I get to that point that I am willing to give.

Her behaviour is identical to a BPD person and that makes it so much harder.

Neil.

The problem with men... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Is that they try to 'fix' things when they are broken. This is one situation you can't 'fix'. Your WW is the only one who can change or 'fix' herself. Here is your mantra for the day! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> "I cannot fix her. I must protect my kids then protect myself." I've also heard a couple of times, on this site, that men will plan A lots longer than women. Is this good or bad? I don't know. Something to think about, anyway.

SH told you that you would 'know' when it was time to plan B. That it would happen more or less in a 'natural' fashion. If this is the way you are moving and it feels right, then so be it!

My ongoing concern is for your kids. Yes, kids do need both parents. Usually, that is best when both parents are emotionally healthy and stable. No child benefits from being around a parent that is, for lack of a better word, unstable. Kids need adults in their lives who are mature, emotionally stable, consistent, fair, loving.... Does this make sense? I'm not suggesting that the girls not be alowed to see their Mum (notice the brit spelling?!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ), I'm suggesting supervised visits or allowing the girls more say in how visits occur. Your girls are finding these visits very stressful, more than necessary. You can 'fix' this!!!

I really don't think I am able to wait that long.

My WW is saying she no longer loves me, is not interested in me. She is happier now than she has ever been. Of course she doesn't want to hear the bad things that the kids are suffering etc.

I am now the villain. Her mind has turned everything around. I threw her out, no money etc etc. My Lovebank is dry. I came to realise this over the weekend. Her continual bashing of me has just made me totally low and angry. I am the only one trying to work on getting us back together. She is busy setting up her new life with OM2.

She keeps accusing me of trying to poison the girls against OM2 - I do no such thing, they simply do not like him. He represents exactly the kind of man she herself spent years convincing them to avoid. She wants the girls to make up their "own" mind about him and now that they have she doesn't like it because they don't like him. Her life is now a surreal facade, a fantasy, where he is her surrogate father protector and I now am equivalent to her previous abusers.

For my own sanity and security I feel that I must move forward with the divorce. She has said I keep threatening her with it anyway. She wants me to go ahead and divorce her. I feel very low, probably my lowest ever. Coping with this is harder than her being in the psych ward. At least there there was some hope.

I feel like I have had to suffer an A, then months of lies and deceit that I was the problem whilst the A continued, then months of suicide, blood, drinking and selfharm in hospital, then months where I was expected to be 110% aok and recovered and yet still accept irrational out of control behaviour. Because I could not do this latter point the WW left with the OM2 and I am therefore punished yet again but instead of seeing it she turns me into the villain.

Steve H said I would slide into a Plan B, I think I am there now. Not only am I there I am also thinking that I do WANT a divorce. My love is all but gone, I have tried to keep it going but when someone is so dead against you, so dead keen on making your life a misery you just want out.

I have told her that I love her but I cannot bear this painful behaviour anymore. That I will give her the divorce that she has told me to get. I have asked her to be as quick and as amicable as we can so that the children, her and I can get thru this as painlessly as possible. I wont be fighting for this anymore. I will see her as little as possible for her benefit. I have told her goodbye and that I loved her.

Sometimes it just doesn't work.

Neil.

Ok, you know what you need to do. I'm so sorry it has gotten to this point. As I told you before, you did everything you could to save the marriage. You aren't walking away from a M you didn't try to make work. Her behaviour towards you has become verbally/emotionally abusive. No one needs to tolerate that in their life! SH told you that you'd slip into a plan B...looks like you may be ready. There is nothing you can say right now that is going to steer your WW off her chosen path. In all liklihood she'll blame you for everything wrong in her life...including unwashed laundry and car trouble <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . All you can do is protect yourself and your girls. Are your girls old enough to decide for themselves (legally) whether or not they want to be in OM's company?? Maybe, letting the girl's talk to a lawyer might get their needs and wishes respected.

The girls aren't really old enough. In truth I think they are strong enough to speak their mind. Its just that WW doesnt want to hear it. Well she wont be hearing it anymore from me.

The girls need to grow and they are growing with me. I suspect that in time their relationship with him will stabilise and it will continue, not as a father figure to them though. More as the man who helped break their family.

My WW just wants her little fantasy world to continue. Well it can now, and she can have it permanently. I am seeing my IC tonight and MC tomorrow, the latter will help me go through the pain of divorce, although I feel it will be a relief compared to how I have felt these last four weeks.

Thanks for your continued support. Neil.

<small>[ September 30, 2002, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: Porsche S ]</small>

Dropped the Divorce paperwork in today.

Neil,

I am sorry for all the pain and hurt. I hope you are OK from day to day. I can't see how you could do any different. There is more invoulved here than just an A. As has been said, you need to protect your daughters and yourself.

If she wakes up, you can always take her back. We hope that happens, but in the meantime, take care of YOU, and those girls.

SS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Porsche S:
<strong>Dropped the Divorce paperwork in today.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How are you doing NJ ?. When WS is in the deep fog nothing BS could do but to protect themself. You have to be carefull not fall into depression, surround yourself w/ people who love you and get emotional support from them.
-RH-

Doing OK Redhat, had a nice fun weekend with my kids. Took them and their friend to see Lilo & Stitch which just opened here.

It was a relaxing weekend because they just played all the time and had a friend over for the weekend. I did some washing and ironing (hey I'm a man!) and some gardening. It was OK.

My Wife still says that she cannot come back because I cannot forgive her for A with OM1. Kinda strange that when I have done exactly that and have been for months. Nice to know she is deciding for me how I feel about things. It comes across as just an excuse now to be away.

I really feel that there's nothing left now that I can say to her to make any difference to her at all. It's just not going in.

She however wants to stay friends etc. I genuinely think that deep down she still loves me and knows this is wrong but she will not do anything about it which is very sad.

I'm off to MC tonight and I have a weekend alone coming up so need to make some plans for that. Other than that I am ok. No sign of the draft divorce paperwork yet either.

Neil.

Draft Divorce paperwork arrived today. Wife has been having a go at me about "Someday you may find out that Plan A and B went further towards pushing me away than helping, you seem to think this has all been easy for me it has not".

Neil.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Porsche S:
<strong>Wife has been having a go at me about "Someday you may find out that Plan A and B went further towards pushing me away than helping, you seem to think this has all been easy for me it has not".</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds like a whole lot of denial, avoidance of personal responsiblility and...what is that?? I do believe it's fog!!! You know in your heart you tried to do what it took to save the marriage. It's not your fault she wouldn't work with you. Don't feel guilty about trying to save your M...my God, to try and say your efforts lead to the ruin of the M is absurd. I hope you see this too.

I know MGM, I know.

I suppose you just to the point that you are so ground down there is nothing more to try and do. It takes two ultimately and one isn't here to try.

Neil.

I had to bag up and pass more of her things to her yesterday. She went into one about the hurt I have done (again) and so there is little hope.

My girls cried and cried when they came home after being there <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I have told her that I am totally broken now, that there is no contact, that I am in Plan B, that I have nothing left.

Neil.

Is there anyone who can act as an intermediary for you and pass her stuff to her instead of you having contact with her??

Neil,

Just put your boundry up ... The last face to face meet, I told my WW to stop talking about who fault it is and stop her verbal abuse but to move on about doing business. She kept rambling around w/ anger but I do not engage her at all. She got more angry and chase me around when I tried to walk away. Finally, I threathen to call a cop for abuse if she doesn't stop it. I did ... and she left before they came.

Do whatever you can to NC w/ her.

-RH-

Thanks, the actual transfer of her stuff is now pretty much done bar a few small things so I dont have to do that anymore.

I have decided to give her the wedding rings back and most of the ornaments so I'll just box them up and she can take them sunday when she collects the kids.

Got to stick to no contact thats the real kicker.

Neil.