Mosana: I suggest you send him a No Contact letter, and send a copy to his wife. Then do whatever it takes to make sure you never see or speak to him again. Move. Change jobs. change your phone number. Get a restrainig order. Whatever it takes. I know he makes you feel loved, and this does not feel like the right thing to do. To do this, you will have to let your mind overcome your emotions for a little while. You know he is untrustworthy. You know he hurts people he loves or says he loves. You know he and his wife have issues, but all marriages do. You know that he is not the kind of person who will work to solve those issues - he is the kind of person who will just give up and look elsewhere. You know that is not the kind of man you want to marry. You may feel loved by him. You may feel in love with him. But you know the right thing to do, FOR YOU, is to end this relationship now. Act on that knowledge. It will feel AWFUL. At first. Later, you will be so relieved that you escaped, you won't beieve it.

Mosana -
Oh - we are fully aware of what MM says. Oh she doesn't love me anymore, she wants a divorce, I'm just waiting for her to serve the papers. A WS is ONLY interested in themselves. They are using you to get what they want most from their spouse. Only - they never gave their spouse the opportunity to fulfill that need. All that is is denial. For the sake of your own heart - end it with MM. We're not just telling you this because we want our H's back. I tell you this because I want to save you some pain that you really don't even deserve.

How many of you have actually talked to the OW when you didnt know them already? What was your impression of them. Did they just seem like misguided people or like they were mean spirted towards the situation? How many times were they just as surprised by your comments as you were of thiers. I have heard of alot of times where the wife was pretty informative about lies that the MM was telling the OW eg. still sleeping together

Mosana: How many of you have actually talked to the OW when you didnt know them already? What was your impression of them. Did they just seem like misguided people or like they were mean spirted towards the situation? How many times were they just as surprised by your comments as you were of thiers. I have heard of alot of times where the wife was pretty informative about lies that the MM was telling the OW eg. still sleeping together

WR: I had the opportunity to meet the OW a while ago. My first impression was that she was eager to meet me because WH had told her that if I ever met her I would kick her ---. Of course I informed her that I would not lower my standards to this level, even talking to her was something I should not have done. She wanted to paint a picture to me that they are in love, while at the same time question certain aspects of my marriage. I was surprised at how much she knew about me (although twisted to make WH look good and me bad). She exaggerated and lied about many things. I asked her what was she going to do when my husband left their relationship. She said everyone needed some help.

Personally, I felt sorry for OW that she would fall for all the lies, deceit and be a willing participant in the destruction of a marriage and family. WH lied to her and told OW that he wanted me to divorce WH so that he wont risk loosing property, investments and etc. I told OW that if he really loved her none of that would matter and that he'd divorce me and they could accumulate possessions together.

OW stated "Yall just need to get it together"! "What kind of marriage do you have"? OW said stuff like "WH knows he better come home every night", "because I am the one who brings him an aspirin when he has a headache and I am the one who fixes his dinner"... (they lived together in an efficiency apartment with OW 11 year old neice (she's a foster parent). Sounds twisted doesn't it. WH can't stand the little girl.

I told OW that WH will say anything to get what they want, but they always come back to their wives. I told OW that she is causing curses to come upon herself (WS to) because God is not pleased at this interference in my marriage. I asked about her relationship with Christ and she said that her grandmother is saved. I pray for her salvation, WS to.

OW is living beneath her privelege by her involvement with a MM. She could be missing out on someone who could truly be hers.

OW called me to ask me if WS and I were divorcing. I told her no we weren't. Lies, lies, lies, nothing but lies. I don't hate her, but I can't say that I like her behavior in A or ever could be her friend (no way) and honestly, I love WS but I don't like what he has allowed to happen.

This A could never work because it does not have a good foundation for a lasting relationship. Think about all of the wonderful things that make up a relationship, such as trust, love, respect, caring, openness, honesty...I can say that in WS A these things are lacking and it won't last.

You know it is always better if you break off relationship with MM than for MM to break it off. You do the dumping, besides don't you feel you are valuable and deserve to have a relationship with someone who is free, available and who can commit to you. Aren't you tired of all of the lies and the other things that go along with being involved with MM. Even as you put yourself in the place of MM BS. Imagine for a moment the pain she must feel.

Then think about yourself as woman who may someday marry. Wouldn't you want another woman to respect your marriage and have a hands off approach when/if your husband approaches her. You know men only do what we allow them to do. We (women) must demand respect and give respect.

I don't feel like you are a bad person, but maybe misdirected. I pray that you and all of us will gain valuable insite as we go through various trials in life and learn from them so that we won't continue to make wrong decisions/choices. There are consequences for making wrong decisions.

You don't want to have to live with the guilt of being a willing victim in the destruction of yourself (familiy), the BS (family) as well as WS.

WR

mosana,

I am the FWS and I lied to OM about everything. What I am wondering today after reading your post is, do you expect BS's to have empathy for OP after OP has found out the truth, even if they were lied to in the beginning?

My feeling is this - You got lied to by MM, that sucks. You "fell in love" with MM - that sucks too. You found out the truth that he is in fact MM - that really sucks. You continued A with MM - at this point you are no longer a victim, but rather an accessory to the crime.

Up until you found out the truth about MM, you had my empathy, when you knowingly continue an A with a MM you lose not only that empathy but respect too.

Like I said, I lied to the OM about everything he had no idea I was married, he lived 100 miles away so it was easy to hide the truth. He fell in love with the woman I pretended to be, and for that I feel awful. Things ended on a very bad note with me and OM(he found out the truth and was furious, he probably wishes me dead). You see in my situation the OM actually had morals(at a time when I did not). The second he found out the truth it was over I never heard from him again. PasDeDeux wrote in her post "It only takes one of you to have a little integrity." How true that is.

I don't regret the fact that my A is over. I'm happy that my H has chosen to forgive me and recover our M. I feel the OM was this innocent, nice guy, that had very good morals who would never even look at a married woman, who thought he found someone he really loved, trusted deeply and could have a future with. When in reality he had been deceived by exactly that a married woman(me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ). It makes me feel like I took an overall decent person and demoralized him.

When your MM was lying to you, maybe then he was demoralizing an overall decent person, but IMO when you find out the truth and you continue with the A, you lose that decency.

My suggestion leave MM alone, leave his wife alone.

How can you think after a year of lies, that there might be some truth to him saying he will leave his wife, his life partner, the one he stood before god and made a commitment to? How long are you willing to hang on and wait?

Looking back on my A with OM, I know that I would never have left my H for him. And even if I did I know that relationship would have never worked b/c it was based on lies from the beginning. My H and I started with a lot more than that- honesty, love, commitment, respect. That stuff can all be rebuilt, if need be, and it has been for my H and I. But you can never rebuild something that was never there to begin with. For this MM to be doing this to you he has no respect for you at all and probably never will. How can you have a relationship without respect, and everyone here knows you sure as he!! can't trust him.

DU

I have to agree with DU on this 100%!!! I did feel sorry for only OW#2, because she did not know my H was married. BUT - and here is the big BUT, when she continued to pursue him, I lost that empathy for her. To continue to pursue the MM is just wrong. Point blank & simple. Don't try to rationalize any of your actions to help the BS' pain. It'll only make it worse. The best thing to do is to walk away.

Besides - do you really, really want to spend your life loving a man who will never love you as much as he loved his wife? In my cases, the OW backed out after realizing my H was 1) NEVER, EVER going to leave me, 2) Somewhere they got whacked upside the head with common sense and saw that he loved me more than life & nothing they could ever do could compete with that. End of story, they weren't me. So why involve yourself with an emotionally unavailable MM? That makes no sense. It sounds like to me you are struggling with doing the right thing (walking away) and clinging to fantasy that maybe, just maybe, his W will toss him aside and you can have him. If she did - would you want her leftovers? Do yourself & MM a favor. Leave him alone. If you got married 10 years from now & dealt with this, you'd want the OW to walk away too.

You should be careful when making blanket statements like " he will never love you like he loves his wife" etc. For every comment that you make about " He will not leave his wife and that a real soulmate would not make you share" I can come back with " He will never love the wife again the way that he loves me and that if your husband was really your husband and not just on paper he would not be with me 70 % of his time. Every story is different and every relationships dynamics are different. There are certain things that I can agree on though and those are as follows:
1) If the marriage is dead, bury it before you start something else....as soon as you have feelings for someone else get your butts into councilling to figure it out.
2) It is not nice to lie to someone, everyone has the right to make thier choices based on the truth and I think that the MM's that continue to lie to thier wifes because they are afraid of what the wifes will do to them are just cowards.
3) I agree that you pay for your actions one way or another. Some OW get there dues buy winning the MM.

I have been cheated on in the past and although it was when I was much younger and not married the pain was excruciating, I really have little idea of what it feels like but I continue to read the posts. The ones that get to me are the ones that talk of the triggers that last forever. I can relate to that. I also think that those of you who forgive the MM and make the marriages work that are still workable alot of credit. If you can withstand that you can withstand everything. Things work out the way they should and one day I might get sick of it or one day my MM may decide that his wife is where he wants to be.. maybe he will decide that I am where he wants to be and maybe his wife will kick his butt out and I wont want him either, but whatever happens that is what is meant to be....Leslie

hmmm....the difference in tone between your first posts and the last was ...how should I say this... a bit of a stretch?

To answer your orginal question is hard. Should you tell? Speaking for ONLY myself, much depends on why you wish to speak up now, after resuming an affair for over a year. Are you wanting him to make a decision? Are you trying to force his W to make one for him? Are you tried of the rollercoaster ride, wish to get off, yet want someone (W or her H) to "push" you off and make decision for you?

While I do believe everyone has a right to the truth of whatever affects their lives and from what you've posted as to how this is affecting her daily life, I don't know the answer to your basic question. Should you tell her? Her H should, her friends should, her family should...but you? I don't know.

Are you ready to deal with the fallout from having the truth be known? She caught him once before, she may or may not have changed her reaction to discovery. He's been caught before, he may or may not be willing to change his reaction to discovery either.

If nothing changes...Then you're all back to the same dirty little square you were a year ago. W is suspicious of everything, in great pain and still wanting to save her marriage. H is feeling like the wrath of God has decended upon his head, he's "making nice" trying to appease W, and he's telling you to please be patient and will take the affair further into the shadows.

He might actually grow a "pair" and get off his fence and make a decision and stop hurting two women who love him....then again...maybe not.

While you end up either back to being in the shadows or maybe what is worst...with his W's "left overs", if she kicks him out. The best you can hope for is that he makes a decision and leaves the marriage and wants to have a relationship out in the open with you. The odds are against you, but it does happen...just not very often. (I wouldn't bet my heart with odds like these.)

Marriage is the most difficult "contract" anyone ever has. No "contract" of this type can ever cover everything that the two people will be faced with over a life time. We change, we grow, we have children (a whole nother topic), we see our loved ones pass away, we deal with illness, we celebrate joyous events, etc. All of which add stress to the relationship. Each stressful event gives the option of "jumping ship", even the good ones.

It is a measure of what a person is made of as to how they handle any given situation. It never tells the whole story, but it is not the wise man who closes his eyes so that he may only see that which is pleasing.

I do not stand in the "camp" that a man who cheats on his W will cheat on his OW if later they do end up together. I do not believe in "once a cheat, always a cheat"...if I did, I would not have stayed in my own marriage.

BUT...if a person betrays and does not address the reasons of why the betrayal happened instead of taking the options of leaving or working through the issues...it may very well happen again. One thing the betrayer always brings to the betrayal...is him/her self...and that is the person in need of reflection. jmho

That is a good point about if the wife finds out again that she might have the same reaction and that he could as well, food for thought. Judge if if you will but honestly I am torn between feeling guilt ( not for the affair but for her grief) anger at MM for not being straight with her when that is all she asks and still not being able to end it. I dont know if you can understand that but I think we are all looking for a little insight and that is the best way to describe my way of thinking. I encourage him to be honest with her and I think that he is a big confliict avoider. Whenever the conversations get serious with either her or I, he runs.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mosana:
<strong> Judge if if you will but honestly I am torn between feeling guilt ( not for the affair but for her grief) anger at MM for not being straight with her when that is all she asks and still not being able to end it. I dont know if you can understand that but I think we are all looking for a little insight and that is the best way to describe my way of thinking. I encourage him to be honest with her and I think that he is a big confliict avoider. Whenever the conversations get serious with either her or I, he runs.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let's for one moment forget he's married. Ask yourself this...Why do you want a dishonest man? Can you spend the rest of your life with someone who avoids and runs away from conflict instead of facing and dealing with problems? Why do I want someone like this...do I think I can change him? Do I think he'll change for me? What is so special about this individual that I can overlook these HUGE, potentially destructive and hurtful behaviours? How would I feel if he was doing this to me?

IMHO <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> What you need to do is set higher standards for yourself. Do you not deserve more? Do you not deserve someone who can be there for you heart and soul? Do you not deserve someone who has your best interests at heart? Why would you settle for less? Seriously, why are you settling for less?

I guess the same reason all of you settle for cheating spouses. Yes we think that "our" relationship is special. Your whole site is geared towards forgiveness. Does that only apply to the married people? So if you forgive its divine but if I do its stupidity? I am sorry to get aggitated if it was girlfriend saying it I wouldnt get my back up so much I know but it just seems like you guys are so hurt and grieving that you cant see the forest through the trees. I read a post on here that said something to the effect of " My wife doesnt love me at all and is insistant that she wants nothing to do with me what should I do" Come on isnt there times that you can say " okay it didnt work out we were not meant to be with each other? I have a friend that met her husband though an affair they are very happy together. I know it is wrong to do that to the other people and it is the cowardly way to end a marriage but it happens all the time and it dosent only happen with good marriages that were let to run amuck it happens to marriages that are dead and it happens to people who fall in love with someone else.

I'm not attacking you and frankly, of almost all the responses you've gotten, mine have been very tolerant and 'forgiving'. Ever hear the phrase "don't attack the messenger"? No, you aren't stupid but, you are being incredibly defensive. You are trying to justify something that you know isn't good for you. If my input/advice makes you stop and think, then that's a good thing. My approach may be a little more assertive than you like, but at least I'm honest and up front with you. Isn't that what you want??

The difference between a married couple working on the M and a couple involved in an A is the M itself!! M is more than a vow...it is a promise, a commitment, 'til death do us part'! A M is hard work and it has it's ups and downs. An A is based on a foundation of lies and dishonesty. There is no promise, it all starts as a fantasy and some selfish 'feels good' feelings. A BS, if they are smart, will set boundaries and seek IC/MC after d-day. They aren't settling or necesarily forgiving, they are saying to the WS that there need to be changes. M involve more than just the couple, they can involve kids, assets...pet etc., etc.. They say 'we must solve these problems together to either make for a better M or a better D'. Most will not settle for the old way of doing things. To assume this to be the case is ridiculous. Let me ask you this...what would it hurt for you to educate yourself as to why A's begin, their life cycle and why they end? Knowledge is power.

I have been in recovery with my FWH for over a year, so I'm not quite as embittered as you'd like to think. Frankly, the OW rarely factors into my M at all. She was a symptom of a problem, both myself and my H know she wasn't a solution. Yes, some M aren't meant to be but, they shouldn't end because of another person. They should end because both partners can honestly say that they have done everything they possibly (and honestly) could do to make the M work. Your MM can't say that and neither can you.

Your friend who's M started as an A is the exception rather than the rule. The fact of the matter is that less than 5% of A based M last at all. The reason. They are M that started as deceitful secrets. The foundation of trust and honesty isn't there. Very often reality will set in and the couple realizes that the relationship wasn't so great after all, that they aren't soulmates.

Just because this happens all the time doesn't make it right. Murders, assaults, theft and crimes happen all the time. Does this make them right? Of course not! It means that the individuals doing these things either don't care or haven't learned. You don't seem like the "I don't care type'. You seem to want to learn. So why don't you? Are you scared about what you may learn? I encourage you to take the leap of faith and empower yourself!

Forgiveness is important to the folks at MB, but what's more important is honesty and growing from the experience. Becoming happier, more self-confident people. Why wouldn't you want this for yourself? Why don't you honestly ask yourself why you are settling for less than what you deserve in a relationship? My suggestion is that you seek some IC to gain some insight into your own behaviour. Attacking me or anyone else here won't change the fact that you are settling for less than you deserve. Believe it or not, most here at MB want you to protect yourself from the hurt that in all probability will be coming your way.

Mosana <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

This site is called Marriage Builders...not Affair Builders. If you are hell-bent on staying with your MM, then please go away. I don't understand what you could possibly get from this site...no one will help you to justify what you're doing.

If/when you decide to separate from your MM, this site will welcome you and you may learn from it.

Mosana. I pretty much agree with 29Palms. There are some OW who I think don't expect to ever marry the married man they are having affair with. My husband for reasons I understand, had and may still be having ?? an affair with someone who is divorced and has been for years. I know he hasn't seen her in almost couple years but fear that they may always be friends and email and use phone for contact. To me its still an affair but can't do anything about that , can I? Thinking that always makes me uncomfortable but when he got caught he has never admitted he was having an affair. Said I imagined everything ha. He needed her for friendship and mainly sex and had no intention of ending marriage, least Im pretty sure as it was one of those long distance once in a while traveling etc affairs. I never blamed her though like other wives, I blamed him for the lying about it all. Forgiving the affair was easy but not the lying to my face. If its really over why wouldn't he tell??? What do you think being the OW? I am sure she never expected him to marry her he was just a friend and being single she too wanted the sex. At times I wonder if I am naive but Ireally don't think she ever expected him to leave me it was just an arrangement and hopefully its now ended. Coarse He could still be calling her and I don't know that for sure but he is doing everythng in his power to make it up to me and is the husband I always wanted-minius of coarse the fact that he won't admit to the affair. Lying is really a destroyer but I keep hanging in there.Do you expect him to leave his wife and marry you? Do we want the truth, yes yes yes, not any details so leave the wife alone on that one.In my case All I want to know is , is it over don't tell me all the details as I think telling those things make it more painful for the wife and the husband. Just let the wife know its over PERIOD thats all she needs to move on.Im sure the woman my husband had affair with had many other men not just him. I don't judge you or anyone anymore as we are all human and make mistakes its how we handle the solution that is the true measure of ones charature.

If you were that important in his life, he would have left his wife by now. He has not done this. My guess is that you are simply filling a void. Nothing more, nothing less.

I am sorry if I seem defensive I dont mean to be, I think its because we are at oppisite sides of the coin. I didnt realize that one had to be of the same opinion as you to be welcome here. If that is the case I will surely leave, but I think that is the opinion of a few as to the many. I think that there are alot of good points made here and I really respect the couples who are trying to rekindle marriages and I truely believe that if a marriage can be saved then that is the best thing to do. That being said I know that my guy and i really do love each other I dont consider it based on lies quite the oppisite he tells me things that he would not tell his wife,the lies are made by him to continue the relationship the lies are made to his wife not me. So when I think of who is living the lie it is definately them. Everything that she knows to be true is not and for that i am truely sorry and that is where my conscience comes in. I am always telling him to be straight with her and that he thinks that by not telling her he is spareing her feelings but when she finds out (again) she will be so hurt. Like you all know. I am sure that the truth is better then any lie no matter how much it hurts. I am not trying to pretend that I think my relationship is this dreamy made in heaven soulmate thing. Quite the contrary that is why I am here to learn. I hope that my input from the other side might be beneficial to someone sometime.

Confused lady,
I think that your husband is probably being truthful with you. Its sounds like you would like to ask her? Do you have a way of asking her yourself? If she just wanted sex and isnt after your husband I don't think you have anything to worry about from her. Now your husband on the other hand hopefully he learned his lesson and just dosent replace her with another. Do I hope that my guy and I get together? Yes I do and that is what has been promised. Do I think it will ever happen? Some days more then others <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I do tend to believe that he really really wants to be with me as that is all he talks about. When the actual consequences of the whole thing come before him he wonders how it will happen, dosent want to be the bad guy ect. good luck to you.

Mosana: Are his actions consistent with his words? - </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I do tend to believe that he really really wants to be with me as that is all he talks about. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- or do you make excuses for him? Or does he make up his own excuses?

John,
No his actions are nonexistent at this point that is why I lurk here. The ones that have the happy endings seldom come for theraputic insights. I don't want to push the issue because I dont want to give ultimatums on leaving his family that he needs to do or not do on his own, we have talked about NC until he gets his s**t together but the willpower never backs it up and as we spend all our time together the loss is overwhelming.

Mosana,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess the same reason all of you settle for cheating spouses. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Aren't you in fact with someone who is in essence cheating on you? Isn't he still married? Doesn't he go home to his wife? Do you really think when he is home with the woman he married he is not at all intimate with her? And in fact most of us here, are here because we want to improve our M and not sweep the A under the carpet and settle for "a cheating spouse". That is why they are reffered to as FWS - the "F" stands for "former".

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes we think that "our" relationship is special. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, so if your relationship is so "special" why is it that there is another person involved? HIS WIFE! And is he telling you this, that your R is so special? And if so how can you be so sure he is telling YOU the truth? Not to mention if he loves you so much why doesn't he just leave his wife and come running to you? Uh, because he still loves her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your whole site is geared towards forgiveness. Does that only apply to the married people? So if you forgive its divine but if I do its stupidity? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes this entire site is geared toward forgivness, but forgiveness of people who have changed. I in no way ever would have expected my H to forgive me if I never ended my A. And I am really kind of confused about what YOU are forgiving anyway. Shouldn't the forgiving be left for MM wife to do? And this site is "MARRIAGE BUILDERS" which would indicate that most of the information here is geared toward MARRIED people, not CHEATERS! If you are looking for someone to condone your A maybe you should try "THE OTHER WOMAN" website.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am sorry to get aggitated if it was girlfriend saying it I wouldnt get my back up so much I know but it just seems like you guys are so hurt and grieving that you cant see the forest through the trees. I read a post on here that said something to the effect of " My wife doesnt love me at all and is insistant that she wants nothing to do with me what should I do" Come on isnt there times that you can say " okay it didnt work out we were not meant to be with each other? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have no concept of the amount of pain a BS goes through. There are a lot of people on this website because they are hurt, but you seem to obviously have no empathy for these people at all no wonder you are TOW. The man that posted that seems like someone who is hurting and very much in love with his wife. You have taken his words and mocked them and portrayed this BS to be desperate and pathetic.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have a friend that met her husband though an affair they are very happy together. I know it is wrong to do that to the other people and it is the cowardly way to end a marriage but it happens all the time </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe this friend should visit "TOW" website too. And if you know this is wrong why would you be involved in an A? Thats like saying I know its wrong to steal and then go rob a bank. Your entire attitude is like "oh well it happens who cares if I screw with someone elses life"

Could you be any more selfish?

DU