H came home late last night with make up on the back of his undershirt. First claimed it wasn't makeup, then he claimed that he must have brushed up against something....Yea, that's what I was thinking too....then he claimed that IF it was makeup he wasn't sure how he got it because he hasn't been around or near anyone.....What do you do when they won't admit anything.

That is so frustrating...It's like they know that you cant "prove" it and all they have to do is deny. Unless you have the CSI crime lab to run analysis your screwed. I would not second guess myself you know what it is and tell him that although he is being a coward and not telling you, you will be watching like a hawk. Tell him where ever he is to be looking over his shoulder because you just might be there. Or he can stop being a baby and fess up. There is nothing less enjoyable then trying to have a fling being paranoid that you will be caught. Make sure that he knows your on him. Or the other option is to pretend that you are stupid and give him enough rope to hang himself gather all the little pieces of evidence and dont let him know that you have them. The passenger door being unlocked when you had locked it, the lipstick on the coller the friend that phoned when he was supposed to be out with him. He will think that your off the scent and take more risks then you got him. But DONT let him think that YOU are crazy and being suspisious of him. You know when something stinks.

H doesn't think your stupid...he thinks he's smart. (If something IS going on.) A cheating spouse NEVER believes they will get caught. They trust in your trust to keep them safe, they trust in your love to overcome your suspicion and sometimes good sense. They always believe that "they are different" then all those foolish ones who do get caught. They will usually try a lot of misdirection, accusing you of NOT trusting them when they are deserving of it, that "you're nuts". Get you thinking about stress from the workplace, family matters, something you've done that they can point a finger at to get you to NOT look at what they are doing. Whatever works for however long, they will try it all.

Since you are suspicious, I would guess there is more to your suspicion then a smudge on his undershirt.

Saddly, few betrayers will confess, they will deny until the "cows come home"...or until you have proof that they can not lie their way out of. Then they began lying about the details hoping to minimize their actions of betrayal. It's a minefield for BOTH of you.

Good Luck on finding the truth, if there is a truth to discover.

I don't know for sure that he's having an affair or just found a girl to screw. (can I say that on here?) Anyway, I'm not sure how to describe this behavior....he is loving, affectionate, always brings me things - from small to big - is a great father, good provider, etc. He doesn't act distant when home - always in the mood for sex - kinda a loner - very task oriented - always wants me with him, etc. never turns me down to go places, etc. Anyway, occasionally over the years I have thought he was seeing someone - not the same person all the time - doesn't sneak off places so I have never really thought it was an affair or affairs - just some odd behaviour now and then - almost like he "falls" off the wagon but I don't know if there was ever a wagon to fall off of.

Oh, gosh, I wish I could explain this better - I am at such a loss today. The makeup smudges seemed so very incriminating with absolutely no response other than I swear I wasn't with anyone and I don't know what it is or how the makeup got there. UGH!!!!

He could be telling the truth. While you don't want to hide your head in the sand, you don't want to jump until you have a little more information. (I've gotten makeup on my H's clothes accidently just by taking them out of the dryer.)

There are spouses, more men then women, who do the ONS type of thing. Nothing emotional, just pure raw sex that is with someone new and different. If this is what your H is into, it's going to be very difficult to discover. Good Luck, if this is the case.

If he's having an affair, if you want to discover it, you will. Nothing brings an affair into the light of day...like a suspicious spouse.

Just a wifey.....I wrote to you on another post but if you don't mind listening to this then here goes.....

we've been married 9 years next week and together 10. We have no children together but I have a daughter and he has a son who we have custody of. He is not a creature of habit and an extremely spontaneous person. During our tenure I've seen him stop on the side of the road and change tires for people, give hitchhikers a ride, go out of his way to give people money, food, a place to stay for the night (at our home), buy them clothes if they need it, help out homeless and battered women. He is amazing. So,when I say there's unusual behavior it is somewhat hard to describe and he can very easily explain many things away. He has a part time side busines doing lawns so he of course has business card with cell phones, beepers and our home number on it. He is an extremely attractive man. His day job requires them to wear nametags that identify them so we have an unlisted home phone but he gets calls from women who just call his work and ask for him. He's not the only one this happens to - I've heard many of the guys at his work say that women are always calling trying to find some guy. (He is a city worker)

So, about a year ago, he got us cell phones and I didn't worry about it too much until he started hiding it from me - or would turn it off when he was at home. So, one time he had messages on it and I checked them. There wasa message from a female with no name saying "Hi, it's me call me". Well, Ididn't think too much about that because people do dial the wrong number. I told him about the call and he said "Well, since that person didn't leave a name it must not be a big deal". Then the cell phone usage really started increasing I mean by leaps and bounds. What went from about 200 minutes per month went up to 600. Hmmmmmmm again. Then I really started looking at his phone carefully. Then he changed the password - I asked him about it and he said that he felt I was getting too worked up about it so he'd take care of answering it. Hmmmmmmmm. Then I figured out how to work the password and got into it again and one day picked up message saying "Hi, it's Tammy, in case you forgot about me - call me, I need to talk to you". Hmmmmm again. I asked him about this and he said "Oh, she needs her lawn done.", No....I'm not stupid - she's calling about something else. I think women have a certain intuition about them and he wasn't being honest. The next month again the cell phone was really high. We argued about it for weeks and he kept saying "I'm not doing anything". Again, he was usually always home on time, took me everywhere, acted normal, very sexual,e tc. I just couldn't figure out why he was hiding the phone, and who he was talking to. He wasn't spending any amounts of money on credit cards, bank accounts or anything else so it just doesn't make sense. He came home one day weeks later and said he was turning in his cell phone that it was just too much of a headache and if someone wanted to call him they could call the house. Strange but I was okay with that. Now, I wonder if he was caught up in something he didn't want to be caught in or he was done with this girl or....the possibilities are endless.

Then, all goes back to normal - meaning no fights about phones but other than that all is as it was. Then the coming home that night really late and with the makeup smudges on his shirt....he swears he just stopped after work to have a drink and watched some sports center at the bar.....Then how the hell did that makeup get on you? Are you seeing someone again? Are you haveing a ONS? I'm so confused.

Now, I want to add that he is a habitual liar - more to stay out of trouble than anything else. He lies about little insignificant things and we've worked on that for years and I've never seemed to be able to break through that. He will continue to lie unless I have absolute proof that he's doing it and then he'll apologize. For some reason I can deal with that more than this ONS or affair thing. Not all of us are perfect and I hvae my own weirdness so I can forgive some things.

Ugh....if you have any comments please offer them. Like I said before, it's almost like he falls off the wagon and then gets back on it at some point. I don't understand.

your thoughts?

OK...yes it sounds suspicious. And finding out one way or the other is not going to be easy. Because of his work situation he's got a lot of unaccounted time. Honestly, if I was in your position with a man who I knew would lie over small things, much less over something that is going to really bust him...I'd hire a PI to find out what is going on, of course even doing this is no surety that you'll discover an affair, even if one is in the works...and it's definitely will not assure you that there is nothing going on...very hard to prove a negative. But you may find some peace of mind.

Yes, with the cell phone business...it sounds as if something was going on. Might not have been a full-blown affair, but something wasn't right. BUT...for whatever reason...he CHOSE to stop. (You are fairly sure that he doesn't have another cell phone hidden away, aren't you?)

I would NOT be overly concerned about the smudge. JMHO BUT...I would be concerned about any lying. Avoiding confrontations is something many do and will lie to that end, but you can't really have a strong relationship without honest communication. He might need to seek some professional help in this area.

Keep your eyes open and TALK to him. Good luck!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Nothing emotional, just pure raw sex that is with someone new and different. If this is what your H is into, it's going to be very difficult to discover. Good Luck, if this is the case.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just felt that knife in my back take another turn.

About boundry ...

Yeap, you draw the lines and set the consequences ... however you say what you mean and do what you say otherwise don't set it at all. The key in here it is not a threat but a ground rule and make H responsible for his actions. You could lay it out w/ no LB and learn to talk to the fog. "If You were in my position ... I came back home late and a smell of male perfume ... what would you do ?" Use his answer and tell him that you will give H his own word the next time he did it again.

-rh-

Redhat: About the snooping....last night he was working OT and told me he'd be home around midnight when shift was over. At 2:45 I got a phone call and he said I just got done and on my way home. I did the *69 and got the number where he was calling from. Was able to find it out it was indeed a payphone where he was working and today though some conversations I was able to verify that he was in fact at work and they were running really late. So, one in his corner and he didn't know I was snooping whichis even better. I hate snooping but will continue to do it. I wish I could follow him one night after work but he knows my vehicle and I don't dare tell anyone - I learned many years ago that people always talk. You can only trust yourself and God with your secrets.