I'm so glad I found this site,I wish I would have known about it sooner!!I'll try not to make this a book
I've known my husband since we were 15 years old,first loves ect.We have been married for 4 years now.3 Of those years have been Hell(lost 2 pregnancies,and health issue's,money,we went through alot,lost sight of each other..we were once so madly in love I miss those times.

We had a miracle baby who is 17 months old now.The minute I had him things really got bad,he was upset I was too much a mommy,put his needs on a shelf.
He started calling me every name in the book,hitting me,totally lost respect for me as a person!!
I was working from home making more then his 40 hour music job.I payed for alot of bills,and he was always complaining that I never bought him cool things big things so I went out and saved bought him 2,000 worth of new recording gear.I had to make sure my son got food ect.
He would go out to his buddies house to record(but only at night),his excuse was that was the only time he had available.
It started off one night a month that was two years ago!
He does have a nice side to him,when he does see his son.It's split 50/50**good and evil I kid not.
He started going out with his friends more and more leaving me out of everything,leaving me and our son out of everything!!
Bills got way behind cause he was going out spending all his money on music gear.I couldn't pay for all the bills on my own.
He started telling me that women were hitting on him at work(non work there)and he could have date alot of people if he wanted.
He would through his wedding ring at me,go weeks without wearing it.
It got so bad I couldn't bring anything up with out him pushing me against a wall and pointing in my face yelling at me.
I was scared confused depressed..I went to couseling they told me to leave..I went to the pastor he told me to leave.
I stayed, kept trying to please him.He became colder and colder,where was the sweet man I once knew!?
He was never home never played much with our son,became more distant..took care of himself before the family.On our anniversary that year he wouldn't celabrate it,wouldn't open my card.We moved into a new place in May-02 he bought me flowers.Wow!! first time in a long time!!
We had sex first time in 6 months,cause he said i wasn't skinny enough i was 150...no one can figure that one out...I'm very pretty,but he wouldn't touch me. No kisses no hugs
Then he went out and got himself a cell phone,but wouldn't let me near it.Then July He wanted a Break to Heal he said...he wanted me to give him ALOT OF SPACE
He went so far as to ask me to move in with my parents,with our son.I told him no way,he was gone all the time started tanning,lost 25Lbs,went out and bought a bag,new underwear,after he got out of work he showered wouldn't eat with us,packed his bag for the night and left at 10pm.
He said he was going to hotels,and his buddies house.This was JULY-02
I started looking around found hidden in a box in the garage.Womens Numbers,Bed and Breakfast and Condom reciepts,Love letters to two other women!!

Continued:
I found Porn(Teen,and adult)In our basement as well.When I confronted him about everything,he told me he needed to think.He came and went when he wanted to everytime telling me he wanted me out!! He would even pack our bags for us.
I just couldn't beleieve it.So I told him even though he was cheating on me I still Loved him and wanted to move past this..work on Both our issue's and get help.
His anwser*I just need space,he denied his affairs claiming they were good friends going through the samething.That the condoms were for someone else,that I had a jaded view of it all
So I started packing up oour place...my sons room I had just decorated.I called both numbers,both women knew he was married they even knew about each other.Told me I needed to talk to Ken about it.
I told him over and over..leave the affairs and we can get help.His answer I have no reason to!!
They give me all I need Ya,one is 20 and comes from a rich family she gave him a sports car.The other lady is 24,married at the time...she filed two weeks before I did,because her husband was cheating on her(she has two young babies).
One night before he went out **I WILL NOT FORGET THIS.He told me he wasn't sorry,I should hear the way Ow Moans when he's doing her
Telling me what size bra she wore,how perfect and sexy she was.I can't Believe how Low he got!!
On my last night there,he brought other women to our house and was kissing her in our livingroom
I acted like it didn't bug me,and finished my packing.I moved out with our son and filed two days before my 25th b-day.
We went to court he is to have supervised visitation with our son,he comes to see him weeknights at 9pm when he's sleeping.Whats the point!!??
His weekends he's too busy with the other women.He keeps telling me I need to prove myself to him That I will treat him like the stud he is..pretty much.
He's now talking about moving out of state,with the lady who's divorcing too.
It's just a mess!!
I guess I need to do plan B? What do I do? Can I save this?

Please hELP ME.....

--------------------
Mary

Married my First Love,known him for 12 years.
Married for 4
I Filed for Divorce Sept-02
We have a 17 month old son together.

Mary...I'm going to be brutally honest here...your divorce is the best thing you can do for yourself and your son. This man is NOT a man, he's a little boy who wants, wants, wants, without ever giving back unless it pleases him. He's caught up in his world where only his needs matter. He's abusive, both physically and emotionally...and you tried to take it and hang on to a love that is unhealthy not only for you, but for your child.

Get your divorce and find someone who will love you and your son and care for you as a person, not a paycheck, not a punching bag, but a woman who has a lot to offer to the right man...and your H is NOT the right man....he's only a little boy.

JMHO

I just had a surprise visit from Husband..he wanted to talk to me.He claimed he was unhappy he didn't miss me but missed our son.
That maybe when the waters calm down we could get cousel ,it's a bunch of mind games!!
Then he stated that " THE PAST IS THE FUTURE, REVISITED!"
And he hated the wife I was I was a Bad wife,couldn't cook good,clean good enough ect..he has his list.
I told him I may have flaws but he had some pretty huge issue's to deal with.
Tears started welling up in his eyes.It's all his game.
Then he says I wanted you..but the other ladies are like you used to be~~~~
I said Ken I miss the Old you too,he will forever be in my-heart not the man who called me every name in the book,and hit me.
I know I know we all did screwed up things.
Ken you do not love us enough If you did you would be getting help right now and would of left the realationships.
He left.

Hmmmmm The Past is the future revisited...(ya if you don't deal with your demons).What do you think???

--------------------
Mary

Married my First Love,known him for 12 years.
Married for 4
I Filed for Divorce Sept-02
We have a 17 month old son together.

Mary, I stuck out an abusive marriage for NINE years. Very long years. Even today, there is still a very young woman who loves a very young man...but I am no longer that young woman and he stopped being that young man.

Sometimes our love isn't healthy. It doesn't mean that we don't love, it's just not the right type of love that a mature woman and man share. It leaves no room for growth, learning and sharing.

Focus on you and your child and what is best for the two of you.

On looking back, I remember all the tears that my xH shed when he wanted "forgiveness"...but only so that he could control me. He wanted things to stay the same, instead of growing and becoming better. He wanted the life of a single man, while continuing to have the safety of a married life.

He wanted someone to blame for all of lifes stumbles. He wanted a punching bag who loved him enough to accept his abuse. It's was sickness inside of him, and it was a sickness growing in me that allowed me to stick it out for so long. Thank God, I got help and stopped the sickness from infecting my two beautiful DDs.

Good Luck!

Hi just thought I would write vent alittle.Last Night Ken(h)came over after work to see his son.The minute I opened the door he started crying and hugging our son.He was very emotional,it was sad for me to see him so sad.
He told me he would soon be ready to put our relationship back together he was 98% sure I'm the one.I just listened didn't say anything cause everytime I spoke up he would say "will ya just listen to me"
He asked me to come to our old place to talk next week...I told him what ever he needed to talk to me about he could tell me here.
Well he just kept saying he was waiting for me to prove one thing to him before he completly would give up all relationships.
Hmmmmmm he seemed so sincere but He would have to do a 180 and I'm not seeing that.
Now he says he's staying in Michigan moving in with a buddie.
It's wierd everytime I see him he's becoming more and more weaker looking and acting.He's so skinny now,and doesn't look healthy his clothes are falling off him.He's seems emotionally unstable,he tryed hugging me and kissing me goodbye I moved away and wouldn't let him.
Did I do what was right? It's hard to be so harse,and I'm not a mean person...so it's very hard to see him like this...eeeeeeee

Whats wrong with me,since I saw Stbx crying,and flirting,trying to put the moves on me.It really played with my head,I have to guard my heart.
He called today I shouldn't have answered but I did..and he asked me if I would let him take me out for dinner this week.
Oh Boy,I still Love this man,but I haven't seen enough of a change with the history we have.
Just needed to vent

From what you have written I'd say that your husband appears to be a selfish little boy, not to mention a gigolo.

I have a real problem with a man who strikes a woman for any reason other than self-defense to protect his life. Short of that, anger is certainly not an acceptable reason.

I think you would be foolish to take the "same man" back. Either he truly begins to grow up, or he can go play in the sandbox of his own choosing. Now, I know you still love him, but you've also seen the ugly side of selfishness. If you think that he might finally be waking up and may start to mature, there is no harm in dinner.

But there should be no taking him back without time to see if his words are backed up by actions. First action would be joint counseling. An "independent referree", if you will. Oh,sure, I realize that a lot of the hurtful things he said and did were done from within "fogland", but only his facing his own fears and problems will let him start to change.

All I've seen from what you wrote is that the impending divorce has started him thinking about all he is giving up. That's fine, but it's only a start. Do not fall for the talk that he's "changed". Change doesn't happen that fast.

May I suggest you read "Divorce Remedy" by Michele Weiner Davis. You might find it helpful.

I gotta good laugh out of this one
One of Kens OW CAlled here looking for him...3 times tonight.Finally I told her look he's not here,like I told you before he's dating other women too call Star.
(ow)Well I don't have her number!!
Sorry can't help you Ow...
click

Maybe things are starting to finally click in the first OW head!!!
I just thought that was funny he must be with the other other women

I think you would be foolish to take the "same man" back. Either he truly begins to grow up, or he can go play in the sandbox of his own choosing. Now, I know you still love him, but you've also seen the ugly side of selfishness. If you think that he might finally be waking up and may start to mature, there is no harm in dinner.

I'm sorry to say he's still playing in the sand...he is building his life alone and without us.I started cracking up when I read your post <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (he really never grew up + having all the addictions he has )
When this all first happened I had days where I hated him loved him up and down.Now It's weeks one week I'll miss him very much...this week I have been doing better...I can laugh again,enjoy shopping for the holidays for our son.Getting excited about the holidays(hoping it stays that way).I can tell I'm Letting go,it's a really good feeling...I donot feel so weighed down..i miss the old him but I'm excited about the future <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Good for you! There is a future for you and your son. One without emotional or physical abuse. You just have to stand up and announce to the world...I deserve the BEST there is to offer...and I will NOT ever settle for less.

Happy Holidays.

my father beat me if i hit a girl if he hits you again call the law and take him to the cleaners and don't forget about a college fund,

<small>[ November 11, 2002, 02:05 AM: Message edited by: 911lastdate ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BetrayedByMyBestFriend:
<strong>I'm so glad I found this site,I wish I would have known about it sooner!!I'll try not to make this a book
I've known my husband since we were 15 years old,first loves ect.We have been married for 4 years now.3 Of those years have been Hell(lost 2 pregnancies,and health issue's,money,we went through alot,lost sight of each other..we were once so madly in love I miss those times.

We had a miracle baby who is 17 months old now.The minute I had him things really got bad,he was upset I was too much a mommy,put his needs on a shelf.
He started calling me every name in the book,hitting me,totally lost respect for me as a person!!
I was working from home making more then his 40 hour music job.I payed for alot of bills,and he was always complaining that I never bought him cool things big things so I went out and saved bought him 2,000 worth of new recording gear.I had to make sure my son got food ect.
He would go out to his buddies house to record(but only at night),his excuse was that was the only time he had available.
It started off one night a month that was two years ago!
He does have a nice side to him,when he does see his son.It's split 50/50**good and evil I kid not.
He started going out with his friends more and more leaving me out of everything,leaving me and our son out of everything!!
Bills got way behind cause he was going out spending all his money on music gear.I couldn't pay for all the bills on my own.
He started telling me that women were hitting on him at work(non work there)and he could have date alot of people if he wanted.
He would through his wedding ring at me,go weeks without wearing it.
It got so bad I couldn't bring anything up with out him pushing me against a wall and pointing in my face yelling at me.
I was scared confused depressed..I went to couseling they told me to leave..I went to the pastor he told me to leave.
I stayed, kept trying to please him.He became colder and colder,where was the sweet man I once knew!?
He was never home never played much with our son,became more distant..took care of himself before the family.On our anniversary that year he wouldn't celabrate it,wouldn't open my card.We moved into a new place in May-02 he bought me flowers.Wow!! first time in a long time!!
We had sex first time in 6 months,cause he said i wasn't skinny enough i was 150...no one can figure that one out...I'm very pretty,but he wouldn't touch me. No kisses no hugs
Then he went out and got himself a cell phone,but wouldn't let me near it.Then July He wanted a Break to Heal he said...he wanted me to give him ALOT OF SPACE
He went so far as to ask me to move in with my parents,with our son.I told him no way,he was gone all the time started tanning,lost 25Lbs,went out and bought a bag,new underwear,after he got out of work he showered wouldn't eat with us,packed his bag for the night and left at 10pm.
He said he was going to hotels,and his buddies house.This was JULY-02
I started looking around found hidden in a box in the garage.Womens Numbers,Bed and Breakfast and Condom reciepts,Love letters to two other women!!

Continued:
I found Porn(Teen,and adult)In our basement as well.When I confronted him about everything,he told me he needed to think.He came and went when he wanted to everytime telling me he wanted me out!! He would even pack our bags for us.
I just couldn't beleieve it.So I told him even though he was cheating on me I still Loved him and wanted to move past this..work on Both our issue's and get help.
His anwser*I just need space,he denied his affairs claiming they were good friends going through the samething.That the condoms were for someone else,that I had a jaded view of it all
So I started packing up oour place...my sons room I had just decorated.I called both numbers,both women knew he was married they even knew about each other.Told me I needed to talk to Ken about it.
I told him over and over..leave the affairs and we can get help.His answer I have no reason to!!
They give me all I need Ya,one is 20 and comes from a rich family she gave him a sports car.The other lady is 24,married at the time...she filed two weeks before I did,because her husband was cheating on her(she has two young babies).
One night before he went out **I WILL NOT FORGET THIS.He told me he wasn't sorry,I should hear the way Ow Moans when he's doing her
Telling me what size bra she wore,how perfect and sexy she was.I can't Believe how Low he got!!
On my last night there,he brought other women to our house and was kissing her in our livingroom
I acted like it didn't bug me,and finished my packing.I moved out with our son and filed two days before my 25th b-day.
We went to court he is to have supervised visitation with our son,he comes to see him weeknights at 9pm when he's sleeping.Whats the point!!??
His weekends he's too busy with the other women.He keeps telling me I need to prove myself to him That I will treat him like the stud he is..pretty much.
He's now talking about moving out of state,with the lady who's divorcing too.
It's just a mess!!
I guess I need to do plan B? What do I do? Can I save this?

Please hELP ME.....

--------------------
Mary

Married my First Love,known him for 12 years.
Married for 4
I Filed for Divorce Sept-02
We have a 17 month old son together.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thats a horrible story, im sure almost 100% that if he knew you had a potential or current relationship he wouldnt act like such a pig. I would love nothing more then to meet your husband/ex right now. People seem to either change or they were never what we thought they were. I just cant figure them out.

Need to VENT!!
I'm in plan B,And have made up my mind that I will not think* about working on saving our marriage any longer..until Ken deals with all the addictions!! Which may never happen...SO I'M MOVEN ON.....I have had it...I have no other choice.
I do so good,when I don't have to deal with him.
Please Help me think of what actions to take now.Since I am in Plan B.
Differant situations,I don't know how to handle..HELP!!
Yesterday I was shopping at the mall...christmas shopping with my little boy.I was walking and looked and there was Ken Marcy and her 2 children.Ken tried to talk to me and see his son,I kept walking.He hasn't come to see him in over a week now...he has no excuses he's too busy with his life.
He was carrying her oldest on his shoulders it just Breaks my Heart.
Did I do THE right THING keep walking...not give him or OW the time of day??
Another thing is he stopped by last night with her in the car,said he had bought Kieran a coat..I told him Just pay child support I'll pick out the clothes.I don't need your girlfriends picking out my sons clothes.
Then shut the door,I haven't taken any of his calls...
I'M SO UPSET....I had two people call me saying they saw Ken with another women,people I haven't talked with in yrs!!!
Then I explained were divorcing ect...but still it's so desrispectful(sp?)of him to parade OW around town
I feel that everywhere I go I am going to run into him..I swear I have bad luck.

Hello,

Has your husband always been like mean or rude?
Think back a year or two ago, did he ever act like he does now?

I know nothing makes any sense to you because it doesnt to me either. I read everyones posts and I still cant understand why cheating spouses need to cheat, why not talk to your spouse about problems, why go out and sleep with people if it is emotional needs that arent met?

Just a update on my situation.Everything went great yesterday,took my son out got home around 730.I went tanning,as I walked out of the tanning salon(I always park 5 feet from the door) Ken was standing smoking leaning on the building.
He was alone,but gave me the expression of suprise suprise.....
I stopped for 2 min,gave him an excuse I need to get home my shows on soon and have to tape it.

I was unlocking my car and his mouth was still going.
Saying things like I will fight you...if you think our son isn't going to have everyother weekend with me.
Be ready for the courtroom he said.
I left
He is making this so much a headache!!
He's starting to get alittle BOLD NOW,he was talking in front of other men and women children..since there where people walking around.
Not even bothered by the topics being spoke.
Cheating
Abuse
people were looking at him......

Boy, do I feel for you!!!!!!

Yes, you are doing the right thing, ignoring him when he is out and about playing happy families with one of his OW. My stbx wants to do the same this Christmas with his OW and our kids, and I am letting the kids go if they want to, but my oldest (9) doesn't. (Do a search on me to get the whole story). Stbx threatened me with court if I did not force my son to go, so I contacted my lawyer and when her answer didn't offer me any legal protection, I did a few searches on the net and found some info to help protect my son if I have to. You may need to do this too, look for divorce and children in your own country...also children's rights.

I think you are wise to be in Plan B, and this means absolutely no contact unless for financial or kid reasons. Business, in other words. Your H is a piece of work, turning up at your tanning salon, and so on....forcing you to see him. next time that happens, I suggest you ask him "Do you want to see me about our son, or money?" and if he says no, say, well I have nothing more to say, and keep going.

One thing you haven't mentioned. When in Plan B, a lot of us write a letter to the WS, and in it, amongst other things, we tell WS that until OW is out of the picture, we will not see them for any reason other than kids or finances. You can do a search on Plan B letters to find examples. And then we follow through, not meeting any needs, and I mean ANY of the WS's needs....even conversation. Imagine the power he felt, making you talk to him that day.

It takes strength to do a really consistent Plan B, but from experience I can tell you that it does get easier with time. It also allows you to have distance from their ridiculous behaviours, right under your nose. If I have to have contact with WS now, I am seriously stressed. Plan B has become a safety zone for me. I only ever have contact with my stbx via email.

NOW, having said all that, the violence towards you really concerns me, and also his emotional abuse. MB does NOT advocate reconciliation in those circumstances readily, so do not feel guilty if your deepest desire is to rid yourself of this man.

Not a well known fact here, but I was also physically abused in my marriage, and I can tell you that it just keeps getting worse. The more you will accept or overlook, the more they will do to you....apart from your own safety, think carefully about the kind of role model you want for your son.....

Love and light,

Jacky

Oops!

Forgot that the reason I came to this post was to answer the question "How long does the fog last?".

Well for me, my stbx has been in a pea green fog for nearly two years....I bet that sounds like a long time to you...sorry!

UPDATE NEED INSIGHT HERE!!

I got a letter in the mail from Ken(ws),a very long letter.

The main point in it was this..

Mary I was Very Unhappy for the past 3 in a half years.I told my dad a year before I started dating that I wanted a divorce I hated the way you treated me.My dreams ment nothing to you,I thought going into our marriage that you KNEW what I was about..who I was.BUT found out you didn't,I promised my dad I would try for one more year.
I couldn't stand living with you anymore.
You were too controling,I hated it when you were on my back when I wanted to record over Mikes house.You were depressed,unhappy,and I knew I deserved better.The only reason I was angry,and delt with anger problems was because you pushed my buttons and I hated being married to you that much!
We have been emotionally divorced for along time,you never wanted to go out to the bars with me and watch my friends bands play.You would never leave our son to spend time with me.
I feel that I have tried everything to save our marriage.I was saving my sanity by leaving it!
Every month that passes makes me hate you more,because of what your doing to me.
I could have really got you in court but..since I'm not that way I let things slide.
Unlike you,you had to make sure our son was kept from me and that I should take over the rental,along with the utilities.
I find this SICK
I can never consider going back into a relationship with you when you play these cards.
There is no reason I shouldn't have our son everyother weekend,and you should be paying these bills along with me.
Everyday you wake up and leave things this way,is another reason why I will never be with you again.

Ohh my.....

Thank you so much Nina for your insight,plan B letter I need to send out.After getting the letter from Ken...it just plays with my head what if I did help out with money and let him have his way would we have a chance!?
I don't think so because then it would be something else.
He also said in his letter that he thinks it's a good idea for us not to talk anymore too.
But then him fallowing me around NOTHING makes sense ya know!?

Wow. I have to chase you all over! Here's my response from General Questions to your same post:

Betrayed:

That letter was just a disgusting play on your guilt and emotions. He wants you to suffer as much or more than he is right now. The reality gets harder and colder everyday and he does not like it. You do not owe him ANY $$, even if he does take his son every other weekend. There was so much garbage in what he had to say it's not even funny. He sounds like a good candidate for a psychological study on personality disorders. Do not get sucked into his Bull$hit. He is going to assault you in any way that he can to make you even more miserable than you alrady are. Don't buy into his crap. Let him sit in the "mess" he has made. He actually expects you to believe that he was considering staying with you, but that all changed when you started pulling your "stunts" with him. HA! A lie. Defensive bravado. He's blustering like a hurricane right now. Again, stay focused on yourself and taking care of your health and total well-being. He's just going to have to deal with his reality on his own. Keep safe and keep cool. He is waiting for you to breakdown and stop your so-called nonsense. But as times goes on and he sees that you are resolved to continue on independently and that he does not have any affect on you or control over you any longer, his efforts will decrease (hopefully). Keep on the right track. Oh, by the way, do not agree to meet him anywhere alone for a one-to-one talk. Make sure you are always around other people where it is safer. His frustration may get worse before it gets better, so he may not have yet pulled his worst behavior in this situation. You are doing the right thing. Stick with it. God Bless.