Depressed -- It's ok, appropriate and natural to feel both mad and sad. Mad that somebody could be so inconsiderate and sad for the betrayal and loss of love. It is also ok to tell you H that you feel sad and that you are angry, however, you need to be able to do it calmly. I know for me personally it was often easier to be calm and thoughtful and not sound demanding or overly hurt if I did via letter or email. This is something that Harley suggests in his book.

Do you think you can spend Christmas together without lovebusting no matter how you are feeling? I know I'm a broken record on this, but I would read the books I have suggested so that you feel reasonably calm and centered when you see him. Because you are not physically together right now, I can tell you that you will be hit with a wave of emotions when you do. You need to be prepared for that.

I've asked others in my thread to come over and read your posts and give you advice. It's often helpful to hear from several people with different perspectives.

I hope today was a better day for you and that your finals are going well. I will check in over the weekend to see how you are doing.

Take care. Get the books. Kiss your child. Eat some chocolate. Go for a run or a walk. Take care of yourself.

unsure

I have actually decided to purchase the books and am very interested in reading them. I will go to Barnes and Nobles after my last final on Wednesday. My H actually e-mailed me and told me just now that he would like to see our son and I for Christmas so I am going. I feel that I can control my self from LB. I think that since I haven't been calling and begging him to change his mind he's getting time to think about the whole situation. I still want to keep my M so from now on I will try not to neglect his needs and show him how enjoyable I am to be with and try to remind him with out telling him what attracted him to me every chance I get. I think in the two years that we've been married I became this angry, tired, boring person. I was so busy with my son that I didn't think about my husbands needs. Yes he is being inconsiderate towards our sons and my feelings but regardless I still love him and I want him to realize he did so with out me demanding him to realize it. I hope that your H does the same. As for right now I think that time is what my H needs and hopefully I'm right and not wrong. I hope the time I give him to himself doesn't make us further apart. I'll write you more later and again enjoy that party your going to. You'll look great.

depressed

Hi Depressed,

What are you going to school for? I have finals on Monday and Wednesday. Done for a month, then my last semester start in min Jan. I am soooooo looking forward to May. That is graduation.

then I have to take NCLEX - find a new job and quit the yukcy one I have. YAHOOOOOO.

I have to get back to studies if I want to graduate in May

To sue

Right now I am in the LVN program and I also have finals on Mon and Wed. I graduate in August. I'll work for one year then continue. Can't afford to be unemployed for two years. So what are you going to school for? Good Luck on Finals. I hear it takes a couple of months for the NCLEX so good luck to that as well. review review review. At least theres Christmas break where you can relax a little huh. Try to relax at least.... Got to get back to studying too. Talk to you later

RN - two year degree. I work in the evenings, attend classes during the day. The LPN program would be a cut in pay for me.

The RN program is what I was suppose to go into but I decided to do the ladder because of the waiting list. I have my prerequisites for it but I didn't want to be away from my H for 2 years but now that the situation has changed maybe it wouldn't of mattered. Congrats I hear that program is really hard and your doing it while working and with kids. I don't know how you do it, plus all of this... I have recieved an offer for an intership to do LVN to RN after I get my license...but not too sure if I'll take it. Depends where my M is going. My mom is also an RN from a two year program and is making $$$$. She's part of the reason I don't have to work this year while I go to school. You'll have a good life. Congratulations in advance cuzz I know you'll graduate in May.

depressed -- Just checking in to see how you are doing. I think it's a good decision to spend Christmas together. It will be good for your son and if you can keep it together yourself you'll feel better. Often I thought I would feel better if I let WH have it when I was angry or hurt, but the times I lovebusted I felt worse.

I hope you can at least read divorce remedy. Since we don't know whether your WH is having an affair, that one might be best -- it also has a section on how to handle an affair at the end, but it's not nearly as instructive or insightful as the Harley books on that topic.

I hope we hear from you when you finish your finals.

P.S. I had a good time at the party and received invitations to two more parties this weekend. I'm not normally a party girl (a little too old for that), but it's nice to have holiday parties to go to keep my mind off the fact that my husband has gone temporarily insane.

depressed, spend Christmas with H! No relationship can be improved by being apart. If you want to work on it, then you've got to be in it. Just try to relax, have fun and be a fun person to be around. And try to arrange someone to watch baby so the two of you can get away from the responsibility for a bit. Maybe grandma? It's so hard to build with a baby there all time. It's demanding, and takes much of the attention away that is needed just for the two of you. And of course, this is going to be a long haul because children do need the attention as well. It's about trying to divide up and organize your time. Schedule time together with H. It's one of your biggest investments of a life. Marriages are hard work at best, but your circumstances are even harder due to not enough time together before the responsibilities of children, schooling, etc. you've a lot on your plate! Glad you didn't abort your baby. That would have been a life long pain to live with. Perhaps if you and H could arrange time together to just be a couple again, it might make him see more clearly. It sounds like he just wants to dump responsibility. He's not mature enough yet! Good luck,and congratulations on your schooling. You're planning so at least you can support yourself and son if need be. LouLou

Hi unsure

I'm glad to hear you had a good time at the party. Hey no one is ever too old to party. Keep the invitations in the back of your mind just in case you need something fun to do.

I finished my second final this morning and it went pretty well. I have my last one in a couple of hours then off to Barnes and Nobles I go. I will buy that book you mentioned.

I am also going to go to AZ this weekend to spend Christmas with H. I will try my hardest not to LB and instead try to show him how pleasant it is to have a family.

I have to go and study for final so I'll post to you later. I just wanted to tell you that I'm thankful to have met you on MB.

LouLou

Thanks for the advice. I am going to go spend Christmas with H. I agree I need to be in it to fix it. I do have a lot on my plate and I am trying as hard as I can without pushing him away to fix it. I have a final in a couple of hours so I'll post more to you later.

Thanks again for the advice. depressed

Hi Depressed,

I passed my finals and now for 4th semester.

There is a need for LVN & RN's. Since you are doing the LVN, which I know from some of the LVN's in my class, it is hard also. They were in class or studying from sun up to sun down.

Once you finish and pass state boards, you could look for a Hosp. that will pay or reimburse you for the tuition to get your RN. I don't know about AZ or the state you are in, the school I attend has basic program, for those like me, and an accelerated for the LVN who want to be RN's.

My school had a waiting list also, I hear it is about a year long. Once you finish LVN training, what you could do is work on the liberal arts classes. Get them out of the way so all you have to think about is Nursing classes. That is what I did. Good luck to you. When August gets here, you will be so happy.

I'm looking forward to some job security and a decent paycheck. Not one they tell you is decent because it exceeds minimum wage, and you cannot support a family on it.

And have a happy and Merry Christmas with H. Have fun. Besides, you need the break. All the studying turns your brain numb.

<small>[ December 18, 2002, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]</small>

Hi Unsure

I'm in AZ now. I didn't get a chance to get the book cuzz I was so busy trying to get things together for my trip over here. I went shopping and got a manicure, pedicure, and hair done to look nice for H.

I messed up and LB all day yesterday. It got so bad that I kept hitting him wishing he would hit me too so all my feeling for him would go away. Sounds pretty stupid huh men hitting women really is a bitter subject for me and anyone that would do that I could care less for but he wouldn't.

I found out that he talks to his ex girlfriend. I asked him for what and he said that he needed someone to talk to about me. I asked why couldn't you talk to me? He said that she's so much easier to talk to then me. I asked if there was something going on between them and he said no, but I find that hard to believe because he hasn't talked to this girl in 2 and a half years and all of sudden their such good friends. How funny that I'm the reason why they talk. Yeah right. I wasn't born yesterday. I know I'm young but not stupid. I'm smart enough to know that two people of the opposite sex that didn't grow up with each other, don't just start calling each other all the time for friendship.

I also asked if he's 100% sure that he doesn't love me and that he doesn't want to be married to me and he said yes. I cried all day

Ooops sorry I posted without finishing.

cont:

Yesterday I did cry all day and when people ask me how I'm doing I want to tell them the truth but at the same time I don't want to so I don't have to say the whole story. I am very depressed that my H that I'm in love with doesen't love me and as much as I want everything the way it was before I left to school....I cant so all I can do is let go. I know this site is for people who have hope in saving their marriage so I will no longer post. I lost all hope yesterday. I admire all of you that hang in there even when things don't look so good but if all of you could see the look on my husbands face when he told me he doesn't love me you'd understand why I'm giving up. I'll keep all of you in my prayers and Sue I hope things work out for you. Thank you for all of your advice. Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. I'll try for a Happy New Year. Take Care Depressed(Melinda)

Melinda,

This site is not just for those who are trying to save their M's. So don't leave. There is the Divorce/divorcing thread. They are helping each other through the process of a D. They are helping each other start over, with dating issues they never thought they would have to deal with after they married.

So don't leave. You are welcome here. We are here for you. You are going through a rough time now and need support.

I don't know what you saw in your H's face when he told you, maybe he was being honest, but then again, maybe it is a fog thing.

Maybe their is an A with this old girlfriend, which I know you are suspecting, so I will put it into words. Most A's don't survive.

He married you for a reason. I know the distance between you two does not make it easy to maintain a R. I also know it has been done in the past. My suggestion at this time is to Plan A him while you are visiting, and Plan A him via e-mail, letters, and phone. Can you transfer to a school in your area? Who watches your baby while you are in school? If it is daycare, you could find daycare in your area.

Please stay in touch.

Hi Unsure,

I've cried and cried so much these past days and am very sad. I'll give the other forum a try in a couple of days. I'm trying to get myself together so I can drive home safely.

I'm trying to get some of the things I want together so when I graduate in August I can just pick them up and not stay so long. I want to end things and have closure before I leave so when I do leave I don't start to have false hope again about him changing his mind. I'm tired of this pain and just want time to heal it with out going back and fourth to hope and no hope. I'm just tired of trying for nothing.

I have thought about moving back in the past to fix my relationship but he said no and that if I did he would move out and I would have to pay for the house. He knows I wouldn't be able to because I'm unemployed at the moment and he even said that I would end up getting the house repo'd. I stuck with the safe plan and stayed at my moms to finish school so I have a decent future. If he had said yes so we could work things out I would drop everything and come back.

I'm not fighting with him or argueing with him anymore. At this point I'm through. I'm finally accepting that it is over and there is nothing I can do about it anymore. He doesn't want to argue either. He never did like too. I finally got the reason why he doesn't love me anymore out of him. It's because I demanded too much, didn't feel comfortable around me, and that he felt like nothing he did was good enough. I apologized for the way I treated him in the past.

It's true I demanded instead of asked. I demanded for him to love me the way I wanted him to. I'ts just too bad that I found this site a little bit too late. Theres alot of helpful info here. He felt like he had to watch what he said before he said it and that everytime he did something it wasn't enough for me. I admit I was hard on him and demanded a lot. I felt so burned out with my job and son at the time that I demanded he did as much as me. If I was doing something I expected him too as well without me having to ask. I don't know if blaming myself is what I'm doing now but I've apologized and gave my all in trying to convince him to give our marriage another shot since I've learned so much from MB but he refused so I said fine.

I looked into his eyes and told him "If you are a 100% sure that this marriage is what makes you so unhappy, you can have the D and I hope to god that all my unhappiness is worth your happiness."

What's sad though, Unsure, is that I still love him so much. He knows this but it does nothing for him. Sorry for rambling on this post today but?????????(That's how I'm feeling right now).........Just ??????????????????????????????

Well it's late. I better get to bed. I'll be back to MB. Maybe tomorrow, maybe the next day i don't know. Like I said??????????????????

Melinda --

Your last post is very disturbing to me. I feel your anguish and sorrow so clearly and I'm feel so very badly for you.

I would say that with The Fog firmly in place for him, words and thoughts and actions of any type are not to be trusted or believed. He can look you straight in the eye and tell you he doesn't love you but it doesn't mean it's true. In fact, the odds are that you're hearing typical Fog-Speak which guarantees nonsense and garbage from him, painful but false nonetheless.

Don't mean to raise any false hope but hope is what you need and patience and support. We're here to provide the hope and support; you have to have the patience. You don't know what tomorrow will bring. Right now you're the only one in your R "for" your marriage; he can't help a bit for the present. So if you want it to continue, you have to hang in and provide some level of grounding and stability.

I know it hurts; I know how much it hurts, but I also know that if I can make it through the pain, you can too. The non-fogbound spouse has to be there for the relationship, has to stay involved, if only to say that they have done their very best.

We continue to be here for you...

Ammon

Melinda,

Remember, we are here for you. Stay focused on school and improving yourself.

I know my H thinks I make too many demands. Of course, he now understands why. He never really understood just how much work I have to do, until he started watching the kids at night while I work. He still leaves alot for me. He thought child rearing was a piece of cake. He found out it is one of the toughest jobs he will ever have to do.

Besides the Divorcing sections, there is the emotional needs section. Stay here to get support and if you need counseling get that too.

I've been at my sisters and haven't had regular access to a computer. I read your posts and can feel your despair.

It ain't over til it's over. It's hard and right now it's very hard because you feel as if you're getting all the wrong responses from your H. It took me several weeks of major LBing (and I do mean major I was just demanding demanding crying crying all the time). Then, I got a better feel for what plan A was about. In part it is about you not concentrating so much on what your H is or is not thinking. Don't ask him right now. The answer will only upset you.

If you can you need to calmly tell him that you're not happy with his "decision" (I put that in quotes because who knows what his decision really is right now), but that you don't want a divorce but at the same time you recognize you can't make him stay in a marriage against his will. So, you are suggesting that you won't raise this topic again for a while and that you'll give him the space he needs to think and that you need to think too. Then, you need to not ask him questions or ask for commitments or anything else.

It's ok if you don't think you can do this. Not many can and you are trying. The only thing you can control is you and your life and the life of your young child. Focus on that alone right now.

I have to run, but wanted you to know I'm thinking of you. We all mistakes and are all imperfect -- trying is the best we all can do.

Ammon

Thanks for your post. I don't know if my H is in fog but we decided to wait to file D papers till August when I graduate for time convenience and insurance purposes. I'm not holding my breath but if my H did decide before August to give it another shot I'd be more than willing.

For right now I'm just trying to make it to the next day and trying to find some peace of mind. Thanks for caring.

Sue with hope

No doubt I will stay focused on school. It may be what I end up having to rely on in the future. Who knows but I love my child too much to not give him what he deserves.
I thought of leaving my son with H to raise for a little while so maybe he can understand what I feel, but I'll be miserable not being able to see my son everyday. And for what to teach someone a lesson. Not worth it.
I decided to stick to MB. I find it easier to talk to you guys than my family and friends in CA. Thanks for being there for me.
I head back to CA tomorrow. My H thinks Jan 13 is too long and so do I. I need time to myself. Get myself emotionally stable to face clinicals. Good luck to you as well.

Unsure,

How was your stay at your sisters? Hope it was great. I wondered if you were ok, since I hadn't heard from you in a while. Hope you have a Happy New Year.

I had a rough couple of days with H. I've been here since the 21st but am headed back tomorrow. I finally lost hope on my M. I stopped LB and decided to work on me. I can't go through this emotional roller coaster ride everyday. If he changes his mind I'll be there but if not than what can I say. Nothing! He knows I'm not happy with his decision and that I do not want a D but he stands firm on his decision. All I can do is try to do what ever it takes to make me feel ok. Of course this is what I'm saying at this hour. It's wierd through out the day my mind goes back and forth to try and not try to make it work even if it makes me crazy, but at the end of the day when my mind is exhausted I end up at stop trying.

I'm still very much confused but only time can tell what will happen. I know it won't be tomorrow or the next day to really know what is gonna happen but the very little I do know is that when I leave here tomorrow is that I need to concentrate on my son and my own needs for now and that is all. I can't think about H anymore or I will be declared insane soon.

I got to go my son is begging for attention. Hope you have a Happy New Year.

Melinda

Hi Melinda,

I'm sorry to hear that he is standing firm in his decision.

I'm not in a positive frame of mind right now, so all I can offer is my support for you.

Try to have a good New Years.

Take care