The stages of recovery from a betrayal are the same as those we must go through after the death of a love one. So what you are feeling is right on course. There is saddness, disbelif, anger, denial, sorrow, guilt (even tho it's not at all your fault) and finally acceptance.

IIHOO,

It is death in a way. Death of a life you thougth you had, death of all you believed to be true. So, the feelings you are feeling is of grief. You have to go throught he stages. It takes time.

And no, we are not professionals, just everyday people. We understand your pain because we have been their, some of us are still their. In my case, it is up and down. My H has no idea I know. He has not admitted, and I have not confronted, yet. This place keeps me sane.

It is easier to see someone elses situation clearer than your own.

Just so you know, it will be like a rollercoaster. Right now you are down. Tomorrow, next week, you might think you are past this, and feeling up, then something will trigger it, and you are down. It takes a while. Vent, come for advice, that is why we are here.

I also concur with the suggestion of counseling. I think alot of the concepts on the MB site have alot of great value.

I recall, I was on pins and needles when I first discovered. I thought the walls were closing in on me. I could not wait for a reply from someone on my thread. I needed to hear that I was going to be ok. You will be ok.

Take care

I just wanted to let you all know that I did go to counseling today. I think I reached a point for a little while at least where the tears ahve ran dry. I didnt cry until the end of the session. I am so angry now. After I told him that I felt like I was mourning the death of a loved one he said the same thing that you all have said. It is like a death .. It is normal. I let H go with me this time cuz I wanted to listen and watch him tell someone what a horrible thing he did. He did it.. Monday I will go alone. I will try my best to make it until then, He did say not to make any hasty decisions as well. I will look forward to this place for my sanity until then. Oh yeah just one more added surprise tonight. My son who is 22 and still in college just told me his fiance his pregnant. Is there a light at the end of the tunnel??

llhoo,

Your feeling are very normal. I'm sorry to say. I do suggest counseling for yourself, regardless of what you decide to do. This was a traumatic experience. One that cannot be recovered from quickly. If you had cancer and had to have a part of your body removed, they would recommend counseling to deal with the loss.

You are dealing with a loss. Regardless of you decision with your M, you are dealing with a loss. Loss of trust, loss of what you believed to be true, loss of faith in the two people you should have been able to have faith in.

Counseling is for you, not your H or your sister or your M, it is for you to help you sort this all out. Right now, it is one big jumbled up mess. I'll bet the walls are closing in on you. I know they did with me. My children are my greatest joy. For a short time, It was hard for me to be a mother to them. I did my best, which was not very good during that time.

If you decide to make your M work, then MC would be a good idea. You could even try MC while trying to decide (I think). I've never been to a MC before. H will not agree to go.

YOu will know what the right decision is, when the right time comes. You will know it deep down that it is the right decision.

Take care

sue. I have no clue how youhave been able to stand it. You seem like such a strong sensible person and I guess that is what gets you through. one day I too may become strong and sensible again.. At this time I just feel as though I have been kicked so hard to the ground by two people and i guess the brokeness and bruises are still so fresh that it has made me weaker than normal. I have been through alot of tough situations in my life.. My mother was very physically abussive and never showed affection.. I really ddint know how to love anyone. That is one reason why my first marriage went to pieces. Then I found this wonderful person who was my best friend before anything else. I grew to love him. Love like no other love I felt before. I guess that is why this is so hard. I do have walls . Its my nature. I do believe that I am a co dependant ( counslers word), You are right though . I have to do what I can for ME. My H is begging to go to theses sessions with me. I guess that is a good thing. But not right now.. I have not responded to sister.. Not sure what I will do about that.. I guess in time I will ahve an answer. Please stay in touch you all. This site is so helpful . Thanks . Lisa

About counseling: Many of us needed more then one counselor. I had my own individual counselor and sessions which sometimes brought in my H, my H had his own counselor which sometimes brought in me...and then we had a marriage counselor. After several months, H and I discussed it and we BOTH decided on the whole we felt more comfortable TOGETHER with his individual counselor then the marriage counselor, so we switched with our counselor's agreement! I kept my IC for awhile longer. So see...counseling can come in many combinations.

It is good that your H is wanting to go to counseling...but until you're ready, he needs to just be supportive of you're going and be willing to go to any of those sessions you or your counselor think he needs to attend. It would be good for him to get his own counselor and work through some of the issues he has himself. jmho

It sounds as if this breaking of trust is going to be a little bit harder to get over because of your background. When we've been abused as children and we've learned to build those wall which we see as protecting us...we are actually building walls in which to hide behind and lock us behind these prision walls.

When you began loving and trusting your now H, you started tearing down those walls and unlocking the bars. You were FREE! This likely didn't happen in the beginning, it happened slowly as days, weeks, months, and years went by. When your H was proving in all those little important ways that he could be trusted and you could come out from behind those prision bars.

Now...unless you're very careful, you may find yourself back behind those walls and bars and it's very easy in your sorrow to "misplace" the key which can free you once again. Realize that it's okay right now not to have any trust in much of anyone, but don't lock yourself inside....there is no peace behind those bars.

Ilhoo,

Of course they are remorseful. They got caught!! Take it from me. I asked my W on several occassions about her R w/ the OM. She always just said they were "special friends" Even after I knew that it was at least an EA she still denied it. I finally had had enough w/ the lying and told her of the proof.
You didn't give alot of detail on the evening of the "kiss" but let me review a few ideas. You said that it was 3:00 a.m. There are two possible scenarios here, that while both are devastating, if you think about them it may tell you the depth of their relationship. The first is that there may have been a holiday party going on and the H and Sister got caught up in the moment and the alcohol. If this is the case there is probably not an affair occurring or at least not yet. Unfortunately I'm guessing that there was no party just some holiday drinks and since it was 3:00am you were probably upstairs asleep and woke up to find an empty bed. You went downstairs and saw the scene. If this is the scenario, there may be a R starting or going on behind your back.

Because I rushed the collection of proof and revealed it to my W, I'll never know for sure if it was a PA or an EA. (although she says just EA)I'd advise you to relax don't rush anything.( I know easy for me to say) If you get one piece of proof ie. cell phone records that show that the H and sister talk very frequently don't immediately throw it in their faces. Know that that is a possible sign and try to collect more info.

Although this board is important for you to vent and ask questions, I found that reading anything and everything on Steve Harley's site was much more beneficial

It has been a year since my suspicions were aroused and it's almost been a year since DDay. I'm starting to trust the W again. I'm 99% sure that No Contact is still in force. Occassionally the 1% comes into my mind. Hopefully with more time I'll be at 100%.

Good luck to you.
Cwmac

Well .... my 2 cents .....

If this pair of "sorry" and "full of remorse" people would like to really demonstrate the depth of their remorse .... suggest this:

Meet together yourself, your H, your sister and your sister's H .... and have your H and your sis confess to sis's H exactly what went on ... and how they were discovered ... and they can apologize to him in your presence!!!

My H confessed his A to his friend (OW's H) in my presence .... and it was cathartic to our healing.

Just a suggestion ..... but .... if they are really really sorry they will apologize to her H as well.

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ January 03, 2003, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Iihoo,

I'll be on and off all weekend. When it rains it poors.

Justawifey makes sense. I did not come from an abused background, but I know abuse from a past bf. AFter him, I did not want to get involved with another man again. Then I met my H. At first, I hesitated about seeing him. I did not trust my own judgements and figured that all the good ones are gone and I'm left with leftovers. After while I started to trust him.

As far as being strong, anyone who has to go through this is strong. It takes strength to rebuild, it takes strength to go on, it takes strength to give up on the current R. No matter how you look at it, it takes strength. You have the strength in you to make the right decisions for yourself.

Well, when it rains it pours. Your son and his girlfriend will have to make some decisions with regards to thier lives and the life they just created. Let them deal with this one. You have enough to deal with. They are adults, and if they are going to do adult stuff, then they need to make adult decisions now. I know it is hard, you love him, he is your son. We don't want our children making mistakes. We learn our best lessons from lifes mistakes.

Take care and post over the weekend if that is what you need to help you survive the weekend.

S.. Have a great weekend..I do agree that they ar both adults,but u r right. We as parents still worry. I know that things will work out for them . This a good thing. A child will be born. YIKES .I will be a granny at 40 !! I ahve to deal with my own issues. you are right.. PEPPER. How can I hurt another person ?? I do not want my sis H to feel the pain that I am feeling.. I am mad and have thought of tellling him but would I be doing it out of anger annd is that the right thing to do?? trust me I WOULD LOVE TO LET HER SUFFER TOO, but she has 3 little children. she needs to be the one to tell him if she chooses. If my marriage breaks up, he may find out. I need to clear my head before I decide.. If I stay with H it will ruin alot of relationships in my famliy/ Sis is blaming H. H is blaming sis.. She will make family hate him. I know they were BOTH at fault. BOTH.. Its a confusing issue..

You are exactly right when you say it is not one persons fault. Take it from me... When my sister and I got into a huge fight, she told her H (and my family) that my H raped her... I guess that way she could hurt me, and NOT be held responsible for her own actions. Granted my family knows she is lying, but it has put a HUGE strain on my family. My sister had a plan in her mind to get my H, and to hurt me... my H was stupid enough to go along with it!

I still think you need a little time away from your sister... you need to concentrate on your M, and make whatever decisions you need to make!

As for telling her H... boy, is that tempting or what!!! Well, after my Sister came out with her "claim", I spoke with my sisters H, and let him know of the other A's my sister has had... I thought it would help him, but all it did was piss him off, and now he is joining my sisters mission to destroy my life! (even though he told me to my face that he knew she was lying... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) I guess it is easier for him to ignore the truth than it is to admit to himself that my sister strays whenever the opportunity arises...

The most important thing now is YOU!!! YOU need time to let this all REALLY sink in... but, let me just tell you that I kicked my H out of the house for 2 weeks, and it was REALLY tough on me and our kids.... I let him move back in so we could work on things, and we really are doing better now than ever. Do what is right for YOU!!!

From experience, I can tell you that 7+ months into recovery, it does get better... I still have my good and bad days... but the good now outnumber the bad!

I wish you the best!

MC needs your help

Iihoo,

How is it going? You take the time you need to make the decision that is right for you. Not right for your sister, because she is too humiliated to face her own role in the incident. What ever you decide to do, she will have to accept your decision.

On the bright side of being a grandma at age 40, is you will be young enough to remain active in this baby's life. The down side is your are too young to be a grandma. My younger sister who is 37 will be a grandma this April. They were afraid to tell me, because they did not want the lecture. As I told my sister, did I lecture you? Why would I lecture my neice. What is done is done, so instead I did the next loving thing I could do, and i pointed my finger at my sister and laughed at her being a grandma at age 37. Okay, it was not genuine laughter. I told my sister that if I have anything that they need to let me know. I still have some baby stuff. My youngest is 4 (I'm 41), so I started late in life. (what was I thinking having a baby at my age <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) lol. I don't feel like I'm in my 40's. I still think I'm in my 20's or 30's. So, SSHHH, don't tell me my real age. Its a secret. LOL

Hey all .. Just wanted to give an update.. Have been to 2 counseling sessions since this happend ( dec 29). Not sure what is going on yet.. H is begging for forgiveness daily.. I think I have a problem. I feel empty inside. I feel kind of a dead feeling. I cannot even think about being close to him. I cannot tell him I love him when he says he loves me. I am so not used to feeling like this. Is this normal>? I feel alone .. I do not know how long I can function like this.. I have tried to get close to him and it feels so awkward.. Like I am next to a stranger.. I have not spoken to sis... she has emailed me twice. My life has changed so much over the last few weeks. those of you that chose to stay and work it out, how long until you could actually kiss, make love, feel clouse to spouse again. I refuse to blame myself for these feelings but seems I am beginning to feel that I have the problem.. any ideas?? Lisa

Hi Lisa,

It is normal to feel this way at first. Your mind is trying to protect you from anymore shock. It takes time. I don't know what is the normal time. I know with my H, it felt ackward at first, I kept at it, eventually it felt normal. Your situation is different than mine. My H does not know, so for me I had to put up a pretense, now I am not pretending.

I hope others can give you better advise. I know this feeling is normal. It is still new for you.

Sue.. How did u do it/? How does your hub not know>>? I kept it under wraps for as long as I could but darn it.. HE DID IT .. NOT Me.. Why should I be the one that has to keep trying?? He betrayed you.. Mine betrayed me/? what is wrong with this picture>>>?? I will go to coounseling tomorrow.. I will once again try to figure out what I DID WRong.. KNOW WHAT>??

OOPS.. sorry.. I hit wrong butotn cuz i am angry.. anyway.. we ARE the victoms here.. sorry my H is the one at fault here..He can kiss MY BUTT cuz I am not kissing his.. how dare your Hub think he can do this to you and get by with it.. Kick his butt out cuz no man is worth this.. no man !!!!!! Heck i would rather be a lesbian or alone than to deal with a cheatng butthole loser guy who calls himself my Husband , best friend etc... sorry to be so blunt but heck they did this to us... maybe tomorrow will be a better day...... MAYBE..... gosh .. why is this happening .. why??

Iihoo,

I understand your anger, I have been there. By the way, you are not empty inside, you can still feel emotions, if you were emtpy you would not be able to feel the anger you feel. Which in a sad way is good. It means you are still ALIVE.

It does not make sense, I don't know what happened in your M. I know where I went wrong. I don't take the blame for his A. He made that decisions. I will take the blame for my attitude and him not feeling loved by me. That is where I went wrong. He made his decision.

It took me a while to get to where I am at. I have my bad moments, I dont' post much to others then, and mostly vent on my own. I am no good to others when I am in those moods.

I looked at the pros and cons of divorce and decided the cons were too great at this time and the pros for working on my M were better. I love my kids, I do love my H. I want a happy and fullfilling marriage to my H. I hope I get it. I am willing to do my part to help acheive this.

For my M, I think it is working. I don't know for sure. Time will tell.

llhoo...what you're feeling is NORMAL!!!! There is usually a period where we have to detach just to keep breathing. We pull back, closing down because our emotions are so overwhelming.

We often look at ourselves and see someone we no longer know, we've changed from that secure person who felt we knew what our goals were, where we were going and with who...suddenly we aren't so sure anymore.

Betrayal changes both partners in the marriage. It can make us stronger, but it sure isn't the best growing lesson we could have...but we can grow and we can change for the better.

You'll discover that many marriages actually do become better after a betrayal...NOT because of the betrayal, but because of the hard work that the partners do to rebuild a better marriage. The lessons we are forced to learned can make for a more honest, more open, more loving marriage. One where infidelity is unlikely to ever touch again.

It's not easy...and it surely isn't something that happens quickly. It takes TIME! It takes a lot of understanding the other, it takes a lot of empathy, patience, love, caring and KINDNESS.

This is all so very new for you. Don't try to rush things...take happiness moment by moment and savor it. When the sorrow or anger hits, then look at it honestly and try to put it into a productive role. NOT easy!

Keep talking to your H. Keep talking to your counselor. Keep those communication lines open.

You can do this!

I guess I am just trying to figure out where to begin.. I have never been very creative so there fore trying " build " a new relationship with someone that I thought I had a great relationship with in the first place does not seem to be coming very easy to me.. The counselor said that me still being in the home means I must want to work it out.. I say Umm I am not leaving the home because I did nothing wrong.. If anyone leaves he leaves . Ok . defensive mode right?? I really wanted this marriage to work but do I have ther tools to make it go forward? I guess I have never been a very patient person and because I am not feeling "love" for H right now I am wondering if its a lost cause..He asked me if I would like to try having sex this morn !!! AS IF ~!!!!!!! can u belive that? heck I feel like I have been "cut off" so to speak because of his actions.. I cannot even feel good hugging him at this point and let me tell you with the way things are going on in our house right now I could use a good hug.. Sons fiance is prob having a miscarriage ( according to dr today) she has been bleeding for about 5 days with slight cramping . Will find out on Thursday when they do the HDL level again.. They do not realize it because it hurts right now, but this could be a chance for them to have a second chance so to speak at getting all thier ducks in a row and finish college and all that before getting married and starting a family// never ends. Also found a lump in breast doc said should be ok. having mammogram in the AM> when it rains it pours..

I hear your pain about the betrayal. I wish you never had to see "that".
It was bad enough for me to know what happened with my BF imagining a million times in my mind their scenes. But don't go there.
A spiritual counselor told me in Sept, when I first started to heal and forgive, that replaying the scene in your mind is emotional abuse.
Try not to abuse yourself. When it pops into your head, say NO.....Sing a song loudly....Say a Prayer....

Forgiving is too premature for you now....you are still in the shock and hurt, angry mode....

Forgiveness can come later when you are not so raw.

Love,
F