Crossing fingers, toes and eyes that this job is the new start that you and your H are looking for. While it's only for a year, many things can change in that amount of time, and the rebuilding of your sense of security can be great while you don't have to have that added lump in your throat each morning when he leaves for work. It's just makes it soooooo much easier when there is completely NC of any kind.

I know what you mean about the media, everywhere we look, we see infidelity addressed. The movies make it exciting, dangerous while seldom showing the true emotional harm it does to all sides. Usually it's just one bad person which makes everything happen, no matter who they've cast as the "heros". It's the evil OW/OM or it's the evil spouse, which causes all the drama...and that is almost never the case in real life.

Triggers are something that will stay with you for a VERY long time. I still have them. I don't think some of them are going anywhere anytime soon. What happened is now a part of my past, it is incorparated into what makes me....me. Just as going by a certain shop can make me think of my jr. high school days (wasn't called middle school in the 'good old days') <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , when something brings to my mind back to "THAT" time, I can still feel the echos of the pain and saddness. But, it does get better.

Have a great time tonight! Enjoy just being together. Try to leave everything on the shelf for just tonight. Don't bring it up, even if something comes to mind. Take a break, and try to remember what it was that brought the two of you together.

Hugs!

Thanks for that Wifey.

The weekend has been okay so far, apart from a wee hickup yesterday. He was working and phoned to say he was going to be late. I automatically asked himif he was with her and he went mad. As soon as I said it I knew it was wrong but fear took over. It turned out that one of his men had been attacked at the airport and he had to sort the mess out. He wasn't that late and got phone calls all night about the attack, which confirmed the was telling the truth. Do you ever stop this doubt?

He came in with flowers!

Should be more news about the new job next week. I just can not wait until I know for sure that he will not bump into her. Do you honestly think a year will make a difference?

We have booked a family holiday for August, even my 17 years is coming with us. Hope it happens! My daughter laughed when I said we could go to a disco together. He came out with " What, grab a grannie night". I know it was a throw away comment but I started to cry. She was 10 years younger than me. He felt bad but I feel old and used. Spoilt the moment!!

We have not confirmed our appointment at the counselling yet. I know he is avoiding it but I want to make sure we go. Why do you think he is not wanting to go Wifey? I know he has told me that he doesn't want to tell all to strangers but I think that would help!

Had a nice night on Friday. But will we ever be able to laugh again? God I hope so! I miss these little things like mad!

Love & Hugs

Kat

Good morning, kat =';'=

Glad your weekend is going better then some have in the past few weeks. Did you explain to him that your question was based from your inner child fear? Need to discuss this. You both need to realize that you will say things which you'll wish you can take back...and won't be able to do so.

He might have explained what had happened BEFORE he explained that this accident was going to cause him to be late...YOU might have asked him for reassurance and let him explain before you just jumped right to the wrong ending.

Both need to work on communicating and making the other feel safe to talk. It's not going to happen overnight, but it can happen.

Well, stopping the doubt completely? I don't know, not there yet. If something comes up, I too can wonder if H is being honest or if there is something I don't know about. (Not necessarily having anything to do with an OP, just in general.) But, maybe that's good. They say, whoever "they" are, that 100% trust isn't really good for a relationship, there should always be a little bit reserved, helps us be aware and keeps us on our toes and our partner on his toes.

Yes, I do believe a year could make a big difference, I'm not saying that once that year is over the two of you won't take a big backstep in that some of these old security issues won't come right back, but hopefully during this year, you both will have learned how to communicate clearly, how to "see through the other's eyes", know what is needed to keep your marriage safe. You've both got a lot to learn, and that year of having the NC issue not be an issue will let you move further on learning these skills. And who knows...a year can bring many changes...even her changing her job! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Well...we can all hope!

Ah those throw away comments...what you once would have laughed with him about, now cuts like a knife. At least you're aware of what was truly meant. That's good. I too am sure that he meant nothing mean or thoughtless about his comment. Just was trying to get into the spirit of the trip, but took the wrong path. (Most of us disco queens and kings are likely grannies!)

You answered your own question as to why he is not thrilled at going to counseling...he told you why! It is scary...more so for most men then for women. JMHO Many men still feel as if "they the man" and never need someone to help them. Being the WS, they are the ones who must carry most of the burden of "fault" as to why they are in counseling at all. They've got to face some really hard facts about what they've done, they've got to "confess" to a third party, nothing easy here.

Stop waiting for him to confirm it...make the appt, inform him when to be there. Then it's up to him to work his schedule around it and show up!

btw...if something was to happen and he didn't show up...take that appt time to get the background out of the way for yourself...then ASK what happened to him...don't immediately jump to the very normal thought that he just didn't show, he might have a valid reason...if not, understand that he is coming from a place of fear....support/validate his fear, but tell him he must overcome, you're sure he has the courage...and make another appt. This could take a few tries...but from what you've said about your H, he will overcome and eventually get on the bandwagon.

Yes, you'll laugh again...at first you may force it some, but the more you find enjoyment in the moment, the more enjoyable moments you will discover. The more you laugh, the more you will feel like laughing.

Have a great vacation! A break from our daily grind can really help. It's not that you completely get away from all the stress, but it helps. Know that you'll likely have some painfilled times while away, do your best to focus on the positive and try your best to take a break from all this.

HUGS!!!!!

Really bad night!

We started to talk about the appointment and then.... well it all got bitter and I completly lost it. I may add that this is the first time. I have been calm and quite until now.

We spoke about him leaving. Him missing her. Him not knowing if he could ever feel the same about me. He tells me that he loves me and the kids and will stay with us but I feel that he would not be happy. He told me that he does not love her.

The worst thing happened. My daughter told him that she loved him but hates him for what he has done to us. He is devastated. He loves his kids sooooo much.

Hell on earth went on in our house last night. Is it time to give up. If he does not care for me in a "Loving" way, what is the point anymore?

KatHurt

Kat...NO...now is not the time to give up! I was rather waiting on an explosion, it happens in 99.99999999999% of the cases...and it is likely to happen again. This is NOT something to be calm and collected about each time. Yes, it's what we strive to be, but the emotions are there and they do need to come out.

The two of you can get past this...this is where we show our commitment to the marriage...and both of you failed last night. Both of you jumped to separation when the going got rough...wrong move. You must have this commitment down solid, that you WILL work through this together!!!

He is going to miss her...BUT...what is he truly missing? It's not so much the person he was with that he is missing, it's the role he cast himself in when he was with her. It's the not having to deal with what he is dealing with right now which he misses. He admitted he doesn't love her, he loves you and the kids...but he isn't loving what is happening between the two of you right now. He's wanting "HIS LIFE" back, and neither of you can see that ever coming back in the old way. And you're right...it won't come back.

You both have to understand that this is not rebuilding the old marriage, you're building a brand new one ontop of the foundation of love from the old.

You're daughter has every right to express her anger at her father. I don't remember her age right now (and too lazy to go back and see if you posted it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ), but she seems to be capable of making the distintion of loving him but not his past acts. That's not too bad, even if her delievery wasn't perfect. You might want to sit down and discuss with her that it is perfectly ok for her to feel anger at his acts. Point out that it's ok to love him, inspite of them...YOU do! That dad is remorseful and trying very hard to do whatever he can for everyone's forgiveness. That she can forgive her father, without having to forgive the action.

Talk to your H about this. Most WS don't think of the damage which effects our children in all this. They "expect" the spouse to be damaged, but almost always feel as if their kids have nothing to lose or gain by their actions...self lie at it's greatest. He needs to be honest with daughter and ask her forgiveness...he hurt her, too. She loves him...he loves her...they can get through this and while he's lost his perch on that pedistal of "god-like" parenthood, maybe that isn't such a bad thing in the long run...hard to live up to when we're just parents with lots of flaws.

Remember...right now you and your H are teaching your children a valuable lesson, that marriage isn't always perfect. That marriage means working out terrible problems together, it's a commitment to share the joys, but it's also a commitment to share the sorrows. It's teaching that when two people join in life, they still make mistakes, but these mistakes can be overcome when faced as a united front. Not too shabby a thing to teach our children about life...don't you agree?

The point is...HE DOES LOVE YOU IN A LOVING WAY! Regardless of what he said last night, regardless of what you said last night! I'm sure both of you said a lot of things which would have been better left unsaid. You spoke in extreems, you put up walls in which to hide behind. Happens! And now your task is to tear those walls down.

Get that commitment down pat and in stone. Make a promise to yourself and to your spouse, that you will NEVER bring separation or divorce into your discusses. You must be committed! There will be times where that committment is the only thing which keeps you together and moving forward, if only at a snail's pace. Been telling you this is HARD...and it's likely to get harder before it get's easier.

Is your marriage worth the committment? Only you and your H can answer this.

HUGS!!!

Kat --

You will often read here about the Roller Coaster Syndrome and how difficult (read almost impossible!) it is to keep your recovery on an even keel. Unfortunately, the nature of the beast guarantees small steps forward followed by predictable ones backwards, often in unbalanced ratio. That's just the way this goes. Just a Wifey has that figure exactly right. What's worse, you can expect other occurrences of the "down" side. Someone once said that the only way to get from one mountain peak to the next is by going down into the valley and then starting up the other side.

Try to look at this holistically. Realize that it's all part of a process and that the downs are as much a part of that as the ups. Of course we want more ups than downs, but everything's a part of the overall picture. The trick is to keep it all in perspective. To a door-to-door salesman, every "no" and slammed door is one-twentieth of the sale when it's made.

Yes, this is hard. Probably the hardest thing that has ever been asked of you. But, Kat, it is doable and you can do it! Setbacks are par for the course. Feelings of despair and hopelessness are natural and standard. That's exactly the time you need to write to us and let us sit with you through the very roughest times. That's what we're here for. Use us. Above all, you HAVE to hang in there for yourself, for your children, for your marriage, and, yes, even for your H. You're the best friend your marriage has for now.

Ammon

I am emotional drained.

Today at work I could not hide my despair. Everyone commenting on the fact I was "not your usual chirpy self". Little did they know that my world feels so empty.

It has only been 7 weeks but it feels like a life time and it seems to be getting worse by the day.

I cannot imagine life without him but then again can I live like this. He has told me that he has a meeting on Thursday - not councilling session!! I have rearranged it for Monday but do not hold out any hope. He tells me he wants to go now but I know that he does not. I am now in a position that we are stuck in a rut. We are going no where. I have told him that if we do not get help we cannot move forward.

He keeps on repeating that he will always be here for me and the kids but I have this strong feeling that he feels trapped.

I want to move on but I am not sure what is going on in side his head. He will note share that with me. He went mad when he heard that we would both be seeing the counciller together. He has said that he cannot speak in front of me. But WHY?

There are times when i just want to end all this. Something quick and painless but then I look at my to great kids (Girl 17/Boy 15)and I somehow get the strength to go on.

You are right, this is the hardest thing that has every happened to me and by God I have had some knocks in my time. A mother who would rather drink than look after her kids. No love from her, no security. I thought when I met H, I have found my soulmate. Someone that i could trust with my life. Do you imagine how I am feeling now? He has left me too!!.

I am crying hard as I am typing this. I feel that the end is not far away now as there have been more bad times than good recently.

Sorry to go on so but.... well never mind.

Hugs

Kat

Hi Cat and Just- soooooo much of your own sagas in the ugly world of surviving the A and being the BS looks like I wrote it myself. I hate the new personality I am forced to become-the OW was his highschool sweetheart and she literally lives 12 houses from us-easy access. I can'tlive in his pocket-so I really don't KNOW if he calls her from work or stops to see her on his commute home-etc.....he says NC. I work one day a week at a local college and get free tuition-both of our sons are usually working or out that day too so my WH is on his own that day and that drives me nutz- like I could pop out of my own skin the whole day I am gone. My WH knows I read here - but he doesn't really know what ''here'' is- he just knows its a counseling forum- I tell him I am reading when he calls from work and asks what are you doing today...- he knows I am reading here. I told him today that writing to each other is suggested-so maybe coming from ''here'' he will give it a go- I write ALOT-he wrote to the OW- and won't write to me-so again I have suggested it....we'll see what happens. The only thing he has ever said to our sons is ''I'm sorry- it will all work out'' I have NO idea why they don't confront him-there are no blowups here unless its my WH yelling that he IS telling me the truth now and I should forget it all and quit talking about it. ha. I calmly answer......it won't go away unless we work at it. Last nite the FACTS I KNOW haunted me to a 3 a.m. distraction-and he slept on. Today is 108 days since dday- I told the OW H a week after my dday and we have had some contact-I haven't talked to him in 12 weeks-am considering giving him a call to see where they are in their life-I guess he could confirm NC or DV.......any opinions about that? whatta club we have here.......this thread is the first that really hits home with me......married for 23 years -we are 41 and 42 years old.

hey Kat-I also feel like I have been ''left''over and over in this lifetime-if I wrote my life as a book nobody would believe it was TRUE-amazing what hasn't killed me so far....LOL I also wonder ALOT if I am just part of the package he ''can't'' leave- feels trapped in? 23 years-our ENTIRE adult lives- 2 grown sons that he knows would never speak to him again if he left-am I kidding myself? I have been through 2 of those days where he called to say he was never coming back......GEEZ- we spent all these years getting to this point- where we could go and do and be-on our own-and now we have this A between us. I don't ask him to stay- I don't ask him to leave-he thought (thinks??) its all about him so I lay the stay or go decision squarely on him. We have been going/doing/being more together stuff-theater-outdoor stuff-eating out-things we haven't done but rarely since before the kids came along-we did everything as a family- they still go places with us that alot of 17 and 20 year old guys wouldn't go with their parents but its how we have always lived and they see me living and trying to repair so they do too- but ANY little doubt that comes along and they have no problem telling me how they really feel-they don't trust their father-GOD that is a terrible thing for me to see.......I do tell my H what they say and he asks why don't they say it to me....ha! Can't seem to get my H out of the FOG far enough to understand how hurt they are....and they won't even give him a bad time-and he won't talk to them......men. looking forward to your feedback and wifey too.....

Kat...this is NORMAL!!! Be careful...you've hit a dangerous patch and you've got to keep your focus on the horizon. I remember this feeling all too well...and it's very easy to make a mistake that you will regret for a very long time. Remember...YOU are valuable! Remember...you ARE loved! Even if at the moment you don't feel so loved! WE LOVE YOU!!!!! You are needed!!! By your family, by your H and my the world at large.

Hon...this is still so very raw. You've been covering up a lot of this hurt and it's just coming out. It has to come out. It's part of the healing process. YOU WILL GET THROUGH THIS!

You've done what most of us did shortly after d-day, you thought you could just accept that it happened as if it was the same as any sorrow, but the hurt is so deep, we push it down, we try to focus on the here and now...and then we blindside ourselves with the pain. It comes from deep inside and overwhelms us.

Give yourself some time to process this. It really did have to come. You can't hide from it forever. Part of healing is feeling the hurt. I wish it wasn't, but it is.

Take a deep breathe....and remember...you and your H can do this! You can get through this together. Let him hold you, let him support you.

Praying hard for you today!!!!!!

Ruth, since you're new to me, don't have a lot of advice yet to offer...but I can always find some in my little bag of wisdom! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Your sons are old enough to discuss this with their father in a respectful manner. They do need to do this, not only so that he can see the impact his choices has/had on them, but so they can be open with him. Their relationship with their father is at risk. But whatever relationship they do have with him is entirely up between them and him. You need to stop telling him what they are saying...they need to say it for themselves. jmho

Sorry but your H is NOT being supportive in your efforts to heal if he is telling you to "get over it"...he is standing square in the middle of your healing path blocking healing. jmho He needs to get a clue! You're response to him was right on target...good for you!

Since your H is still home, I'm going to assume that he's there for a reason...and that reason is he wants to be there. Very few WS are willing to deal with a BS if they want to be anywhere else or with anyone else. We BS are not easy to live with.

Good Luck!

Thanks Wifey. You really are kind and your word help me through each day.

He came in last night and told me that he had to work an evening shift. Do I have cause to susspect that he will be meeting her or is it just my imagination running away again?

I want to keep this all together. He has promised again that he willmake the sessions on Monday!!

He came home last night but we did not discuss the previous night. Is this nor? He did cuddle me in bed and held me tight this morning. But no words.

My daughter has told him that we need to get this sorted, for everyone's sake.

Have we taken a backward step? Will we recover? I do hope so Wifey.

Kat

Good Afternoon Kat!

Do you have a reason for being suspicious...yes and no. The yes, is that he's put himself in a position where you have every right to second quess his words. no...if working an evening shift has been something that happened every so often, then that is likely all that is happening. If this is something brand new, then still "no", if he has a reasonable explaination for why this is needed.

You do have a right to ask for reassurance either way!

Normally, we always tell everyone to "trust their gut" in the stage of discovering an unknown betrayal...but this is one of the things you should be very careful of doing right after discovery of a betrayal...because our "gut" is in turmoil and "it" will be sending off signals for every little thing which happens, this is the time to use your head and eyes. jmho

Step back and is this "signal" of his working an evening shift anything unusual, is his reasons for needing to work this shift "off", do you really believe that he is going to be working? Use your head and if needed tell him how you feel!

Good about the counseling session, he's trying to reassure you that he will be there...accept this support he is offering at face value.

Yes, completely normal. After a day of "explosions" each of us tend to feel a little more of that "walking on eggshells" so we try very hard not to set the other off. For me, I also felt releif of some of the pent up emotions and although my H hated those days, I usually (not always) looked back on them as beneficial...don't know that he agreed or even agrees today...but for me, they were part of my healing.

Sometimes "no words" isn't bad, if you can still connect on a non-verbal level. You do need breaks from always discussing "IT".

Hate to remind you again, but those days like the other day will happen! They do become fewer and farther between as time goes on...but don't hide your head in the sand and inform your H that this is part of the process. Hopefully, counseling will be a great help in the two of you understanding and accepting that this is normal.

Your daughter is correct...but she might feel that it should be something both of you can just "get over" and she can have her normal mom and dad back...you might need to sit down with her and explain that this is not a stubbed toe, this is going to take some time. She needs reassurance that you and her dad are going to get through this together. I'll bet she's scared. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Plus, even at that age, kids see the world as to how it impacts their lives, not how it effects others. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Yes, this is a backward step, but it was one that you needed to take. You're going to take a LOT of backwards step. But pent up anger is only going to come out in other ways. It either comes out as resentments which can sour a relationship down the road when you thought you were in recovery, or it comes out as self-destructive behavior.

Learning to fight in a productive manner is important here...ask your counselor for guidance and see about putting in some groundrules. If needed, I'll share mine and H's later. (if I haven't already! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )

Yes, you will/can recover! As I said in my post yesterday...commitment!!!! This is a process of learning...just as you made mistakes when you learned to read, so too will you make mistakes here. You'll get frustrated, you'll get mad, you'll cry, and you'll want to throw your hands in the air and walk away...but you keep trying! You know you have a valuable marriage worth fighting for...so you fight for it. It is doable! All it takes is both of you loving and supporting each other and being committed to keeping your family and your marriage together.

HUGS!!!!!

Days are getting worse. At work today cried two times. Felt such a fool.

I have made an appointment with the doctors for tomorrow. I cannot live my life without any happiness in it.I do not think I have ever felt so low. I text him to tell him this and he has just phone to say we need to talk. He said that we must stop torturing ourselves.

He does work evening shifts as part of his contract so I know I should feel okay about it but I am beginning to think that I will never be able to trust him again.

I think I could even forgive him for what he has done if I could trade it with some true loving feelings from him. Yes he cares. I have not doubt about that but I cannot stop feeling that he is here out of duty to the kids and I. I don't know if I an live with the fact that after a few more months he will be unhappy. He deserves to be happy just as much as we do.

I love him more than life. I sooooo much want to be happy again and fear that I cannot. I just feel that he is not proving to me that he is really wanting this to work for all the right reasons. He is a good man and I am frightened that he feels trapped.

I am very sorry to be so down. I know I should try harder and not be so sorry for myself but IT IS VERY HARD.

Love

Kat

Kat...I cried for almost 18 months, every day, several times a day...and sometimes all day! Nothing in my life brought me as much sorrow as H's betrayal did. I know you're hurting...and yes...this is VERY HARD!

You are NOT a fool! Yes, we feel like fools...but who was truly the foolish one here? Who risked everyone's happiness? Who risked hurting everyone they love? Who was plain STUPID? The dunce caps belongs on the WS...not the BS who had every right to expect their spouse to be faithful.

Great news about the doctor. That's one of the first things we all should do, but usually attempt to put off because we have misplaced shame. Be honest...get some anti-d meds and believe me...after a couple of weeks...they will help!!!!

The living with mistrust is just as hard on us as it is on the remorseful WS. And the WS often doesn't even realize how hard it is on us. They just think we're in snoop mode or just trying to make their life hard. Well...trust takes a LONG time to return. You're going to get that knot in your stomach even when you know he's being truthful. It's still there! But...it will get better...BUT...not soon!

You can't just jump to being "all better"...you've got to go through the stages of healing, as long as they are, and as painful as they are.

He's NOT trapped! Do you have bars on the windows, locks on the doors he can't open? He CHOSE to be where he is. You did NOT make that decision for him. You could not make it. It was his choice. And it's the harder choice! Staying is much more difficult then leaving!

Often after the affair is over and done and the WS is trying their best...we don't feel it's enough. I'm not even for sure what it is we are looking for...but it never seems as if we really get all that we are looking for.

my experience:

I know after the affair was over, I wanted all the effort, time, attention that he gave to xOW in H's affair. Well...I never got it! The cold hard fact is that we did all that in the beginning when we met, all the sharing that must come from meeting someone new. We don't spend hours on the phone anymore...we already had all past history down pat. A lot of past history we lived through together, so what was to be said that we hadn't already shared? But even knowing all that...I still wanted it...I just couldn't have it, no matter how badly I wanted it. I wanted to "feel loved", not the normal loving feeling that we always shared, but that heady just falling in love feeling that he got to experience once again with her...drove me nuts for a long time.

I realized that for me to experience it again, I'd have to go out and meet someone else, just as he had done...I already am in love with my H, I know him, he loves me and knows me...we can't go back and rediscover each other.

Since I know that my goal is to spend my life with him...I can not experience "falling in love" again. It's just not going to happen...I already do love. And the person I love...I want to continue being my only love.

I can't even remember when the "loving" feelings really returned to stay. They seemed to go in and out the door depending on my emotional state and his. We knew they were there, but they seem to go into hiding every so often. There are so many questions which betrayal brings into a marriage and those questions do stand in the way of openly loving and being loved.

Just know that what you are feeling is normal. It doesn't mean that you don't love him or that he doesn't love you. It only means that you and he are going through a very difficult time in which it is easy to misunderstand and not be able to be open and loving in the easy of yesteryear. It takes time! But...it will happen!!!

You hang in there. This is NORMAL...it's part of the healing process! Good days in between a lot of bad days is the norm...having more good days this early in recovery would be very unusual. So you and H are right on track, even if it doesn't feel as if you are moving forward...you are!

HUGS!

btw...H lost his hard drive on our main computer...he's got the spare one working till they come replace the board, but this means I may have trouble in the next couple of days getting on line. But will check in as often as I can get on-line.

Oh Wifey. I wake up in the morning hoping that you have given me the strengh to get throught the next day. And you do not fail me. You are a true friend. Thanks

He came home last night and I told him that I felt he was trapped. He hugged me and told me that he knows he cannot express in words his true feelings but I am to be sure that he IS here for all the right reasons. He was made me a promise that he will be ther on Monday at the seesion.

You have my feelings about the "love thing" down to a "T" and your explaintion is so correct. But I want to give him what he found exciting with her (even though I know I can't- SUPID YEH).

He has asked me not to give up on us because if I do so will he and that is not what he wants. That made me feel slightly better.

God this is hard.

Give me your details on productive fighting (you haven't yet.

Thank you for everything Wifey.

Kat

Hi Kat and Wifey-EXactly. Get the anti-D's and let them help you- they DO work. We can't BE the OW and give our H's what they got from OW- H's also can't give us what they gave OW -we had that years ago.....all that falling in love-discovering the details etc.. It does make you mad that these things are so backward and impossible-takes alot of time to get over. 15 years ago I went thru the 1st A and here I am again-I still wake up every morning and go to sleep every night thinking this just can't be true. Last night a new ephiphany hit me- I am just plain disappointed. Two times-doesn't sound like much/many- but when we are talking about essentially leaving your family/wife behind for an A, suddenly TWO is a huge number. Maybe the WH that has made the choice to end the A and ''stay'' IS putting all that effort etc...that he spent planning and deceiving, into rebuilding- it just isn't secret and exciting-its open and pain-filled but it is effort. We can't go back.....and if we have made the decision to save the marriage then we have to get to the saving part! The mistrust that leads to continual snooping is part of the deal- the WH's know we are doing it, don't like it- too bad. "Eventually" can be a lonnnnnnnnnng time coming but it does arrive. My H and I have made ALOT of changes in our everyday lives-where we go-what we do-how much time we spend together or apart. If he feels "trapped" then its his feeling to deal with- there are "no bars on the windows" and I do believe he would leave if he truly didn't love me- despite the consequences/difficulties of starting a new life. Some things you just have to look at and ponder over and decide what you DO believe and stick to the faith that led you to that conclusion- to get yourself thru the day. Like I said-I am in the disappointed stage-the subject of ME "leaving" has never been discussed-and I wonder if my H ever thinks about that! Make it a good day girls-we are worthy of GREAT days!

Good morning!

Details on fighting productively. Or at least, what worked for H and I!

We set some goundrules to begin with. We did NOT always stay within them, but we tried. (I broke them much more often then H did.) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

1. We agreed to have a "safe" word if things got out of hand, for either one of us. (I almost never used it, H had to alot as I was the one getting out of hand.) We used "mercy". This word meant that we HAD to stop! But, before we could stop, we had to agree on a time to come back to the discussion. This for the most part kept us from going round and round over one topic which was getting us no where as someone had stopped listening...usually me. It allowed me to step back and really process what he had been trying to say, come up with some real questions which weren't all based on how badly I felt, but on whatever the topic of discussion was. And it meant that we had to have an agreement on something at the end of each discussion/fight. (the time to resume)

2. We set a place to have our discussions, in our case our back porch...as it offered the most privacy from other family members, and it's peaceful. (large back yard, with lots of trees/flowers)

3. We set a time daily to open the floor for discussions about our relationship, which was after he'd been home from work for a bit, but before it was too late. Often we would just say it wasn't something we wanted to discuss "today", but it gave each of us control on if we were going to discuss something.

4. We also agreed to not open up discussions if one didn't feel up to it...(I broke this one on more then one occasion, just had to talk/rant/scream/cry.)

5. For us, we started many of our discussions by writing to one another. This allowed us both time to reflect on what we were discussing and to be clear as to what we wanted to say. It allowed me to ask some hard questions which were going to have some really painful answers. He could answer without having to look into painfilled eyes which could often seal his lips, and it allowed me to re-read his words when I needed to do so. As I often would mishear what he said through the pain of hearing. I could read it as often as I needed so to get to understanding what he was truly saying. These written words would then be taken face to face, if needed, and we could really discuss the underneath issues which were the base of the questions/answers. But the painful "first blast" had already taken place, so it was easier for both of us. It also took away the mis-speaking which comes from "talking off the top of your head"...so often the words come out "wrong" and are not what you truly want to convey...leads to major misunderstandings.

Well...rot...I've been sitting here for about five minutes wondering where my mind went. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> While typing that last bit, I thought of another of the ground rules...and it completely left my mind by the time I was finsihed typing...and it has not returned!

I'll have to add it later whenever my brain kicks in again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Make that committment to get through this...you and H...and you're half way there. If we give ourselves no other option...it helps keeps us focus on our goal of a better marriage.

Sounds like your H is really wanting you to know just how deeply he feels for you. Believe him. He's there facing these hard times, because he chooses to be there. He doesn't have to be. Just as you didn't have to be. You both chose each other.

HUGS!!!!

Morning Wifey

Hows things? Went to the doctors and got some tabs but as yet not taken them. Why you ask? Well I am afraid that if I start I will not be able to get of them. She tells me that I am depressed. No surprise there then!!

All quiet on the home front at the moment but the weekend is hurtling towards me. The time when everything goes bananas!!!

Feeling very negative just now. Look back on previous weeks and feel that may be I was living in a daze and I now think that reality has hit HARD!!!

Mind starting to work overtime. He had attended two management meeting this week and I have convinced myself that there was only one and that he spent the day with him. No reasons why Wifey, no signs why, just I have made up my mind this has happened and I can't through this out of my mind.

He has been great since Tuesday, many hugs and words of love but I know that this will fade again until the next time I bring it up. Should I alway promt these actions?

Anyway, session on Monday 2.00pm. Wonder if we will get there? Who knows!!

Would like a nice quiet weekend with no going over the sad facts again. Inow feel that I have heard enough but I feel he is still hurting himself over it. I wish I could help him!!!

Many thanks again for your support and help. I feel in you I have found someone to trust.

Love

Kat

Hi! Kat....

First about THE thought, you're right, it's all in your head. We get some funny, not so funny thoughts stuck at times. Best to pull hubby to the side, tell him what is in your head and that you'd like some reassurance that you're wrong. Explain that you're not questioning IF you are wrong, you just need the reassurance.

How about making ASKING him (he will jump to agree), if this weekend the two of you/or family do something together which you used to really enjoy, but haven't done in awhile. That since you will be starting counseling (hint, hint) on Monday, you'd like to make this weekend a reminder to both of you why you got married in the first place. You want to do your best to not discuss anything "past" related and you'd like him to do his best to avoid bringing it up also (won't be hard for him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , not the way they love to avoid reliving past mistakes). Agree to stop any "past" talk with a swift...passionate kiss.

Good Luck Monday! Remember...if this counselor isn't the one for you for whatever reason...keep looking. (But do give him/her a decent chance, as the first few sessions are usually background.) Be sure that both of you impress on him/her that your goal is to build a stronger marriage.

Nite!